EU voting rights because they don't like some measures that Poland's democratically-elected government are taking.
This should be fun.
EU voting rights because they don't like some measures that Poland's democratically-elected government are taking.
This should be fun.
The Visegrad Group are already in the naughty corner for sticking two fingers up at Mutti Merkel when she demanded they take a fúck tonne of muslim low-life so that they could share in the culturally enriching experience of gang rape, honour killing and FGM like the rest of us. This could push her over the edge into full Lebensraum mode.
I do sometimes wonder why so few pro-EU types worry that Merkel took a unilateral decision about letting in millions of migrants to Germany and was then allowed to use the Commission to pressure fellow EU states into following suit. Did that sort of undue influence not set anyone else's alarm bells ringing?
That would have rather more validity had the EU not studiously ignored it when the previous, pro-EU Polish government undertook similar measures.
Besides, it's the optics that are the real problem here. They are now being seen to be overtly interfering in the internal governance of a member country because they don't like its government's policies. This sort of naked attack on democratic sovereignty makes explicit to people just what an appalling shítshow the EU really is, which can only be good.
If the context is 'any time some body has to do something they don't want to it's un-democratic' then yes it is.
I'm always amused when people criticise the EU for not being democratic. Because getting 28 different countries to act as a union and reap the benefits of that union while allowing them to vote on everything and opt out of anything they don't agree with would just be sooooo easy. :hehe:
Right. So you concede that it is undemocratic because it cannot be otherwise and function?
That isn't a reason why it isn't undemocratic, it is simply a reason for it being so.
Given which, you'll understand why those of us to whom the principles of democratic government actually matter had no alternative other than to vote Leave?
Glad we've sorted that out.
Oh, sure. And there's plenty of both sorts.
Naturally they distrust their own government more than some (any!) other government which they don't know so well and have less experience of.
The fears of today are always greater than the fears for tomorrow, as the man said.
Not knowing what the specific issue is that you are referring to, I'm guessing you could rephrase what you posted as 'they have expressed concern that an EU member state is proposing something that is inconsistent with the state's EU membership'.
And they have every right to do that, as I said, if you want to be in the club. I notice the EU expressing concern about the threat to democracy in Turkey and the impact that would have on their attempt to join the EU. I don't hear many criticising them for that 'interference'.
See Peter's post above, it is more or less as democratic as it can be.
As for leaving, what if it is less democratic than we'd like but ultimately the country still benefits more from being a member? If you were certain that was true would you still vote to leave because of your love of democracy?
No, it's more than that. Europeans are simply not democratic by nature; the whole concept is simply not in their bones, the way it is for the English.
For this reason, any organisational structure they come up with is bound, from the start, to be undemocratic. And whatsmore, they do not see a problem with that, whereas many of us do.
'As democratic as it can be' isn't good enough, I'm afraid.
And in answer to your second question: Yes. Absolutely. I really struggle to see how anyone can feel differently.
A cosy tyranny will always remain a tyranny, but may not remain cosy. Ask the Greeks.
It's the Napoleonic code, basically. They see it as a reasonable blueprint for law and government, whereas we see it for what it is: a means devised by a tyrant to control a subject population. That divide has always been at the heart of Britain's issues with the EU.
Funny, never really seen you as an idealist, Burnley. :-)
And my answer would be absolutely not. I think we're less democratic than you make us out to be and the EU more than you want to believe. And at the end of the day I want a nice life, I could give a rat's ass about political philosophy which I may or may not be exposed to. And in my lifetime, being part of the EU is far less risky than leaving.