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Ashberto - back to our conversation last week, do you really think now is the time for the
media to drop its emphasis on personality politics?
Even in the newspaper world’s heyday, editors would agonise over their lead stories. Get it wrong, and their readership could fall by hundreds of thousands. Get it wrong several times and your advertisers start to get jumpy.
And yet you are proposing that right now, at a time when papers are desperately trying to work out how to survive in a digital age, they should change their approach with absolutely no guarantee it will work and a huge weight of evidence that it won’t (papers spend huge amounts on researching what their audience wants) because Jeremy Corbyn says they should?
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I was thinking about this the other day, because I'm that sad
Surely Corbyn has, if anything, much more of a personality than a great deal of your airfix model oxford ppe/spad/safe-seat production line politicians. And also a far more compelling story of long and distinguished service.
I mean, he's a million miles ahead of literally every other labour leadership candidate for starters.
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A case in point
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/apr/11/pressandpublish ing.mirror
This is what happened when The Mirror tried to become a serious paper in the early noughties
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Possibly also due to "Editor Piers Morgan"
strange of them to blame the "controversial anti-war stance" though. Most right-thinking people were against the Iraq war, or at least viewed it pretty cynically at the time.
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You mean you, don't you?
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Well yes, and the more than two million others that marched against it
Mind you, people do seem to have actually accepted it was a bloody stupid idea which has achieved nothing but the rise of ISIS and a stronger Iran.
I mean, I'm no expert but they were pretty much the exact opposite of what they wanted.
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Ya think? I think Phil Collins (not that one) put it best when he described him as
a not wholly interesting man doing a very nice job of selling something nobody wants.
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The SMF guy? Proper NuLabor personality vaccum
I think there's real hunge for someone offering an alternatibve to the third way/middle of the road thing tbh, at least there certainly is among people I know.
The only left(ish) people I know who are broadly against the whole business are children of the whole nulabor orthadoxy who generally tend to marry blair's morals with brown's stubborness anyway.
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Did actually mean to add that - obviously a factor
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You mean Philip "Don't Call Him Phil" Collins
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I think you may have read the same article as me.
One of the Sundays about 12+ months ago.
:hehe:
f**k him.
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Well it did remove a maniacal despot ruler. The ISIS thing was a touch unfortunate
and lets not going down the whole people who go on marches route. The majority of whom are wastrels, students and eco-mentalists (or all 3)
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I was referencing the journalist who doesn't like being called Phil
for obvious reasons but now I do remember the popular music star coming out with that as well :hehe:
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Blair’s former speech writer and a very naughty boy by all accounts
The missus knows him very well (not like that)
But... a genuine polymath and worth listening to, in spite of the enormous ego and vested interests.
You don’t actually think this can end well, do you?
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A maniacal despot ruler who was on his arse anyway
And who had been our pal not fifteen years earlier, to the point we sold him the chemical weapons which we later castigated him for using when we were building a fabricated case that he was building dubyaemdees.
I'm pretty sure even the biggest fool realises they were played on that whole business now.
And yes, the ISIS thing was a touch unfortunate but if they'd listened to the thousands of analysts they employed rather than going on a zealot's crusade they would have seen it coming.
So, yeah, ultimately it's the people who go on marches that are the idiots.
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No, I thought it was a recepie for disaster when they ditched clause four tbh
And with it any aspiration to represent the people they were founded to.
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I'm not saying it would be a good thing to write about real politics rather than bullshit
just because Mr Corbyn is in favour of it. I'm saying so because I think it would be a good thing for the health of political discourse in general. Why is it so shocking to suggest that the ball is played rather than the man?
Why do any of the newspapers ever deal with serious issues at all, if the people who you describe as 'cancer-deserving scum' only want scandal?
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Also the main reason it wont end well is that it threatens too many powerful people
That's the thing with vested interests, people do everything they can to protect them.
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What a load of bullshit
![Roll eyes](images/smiley_icons/rolleyes.gif)
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Which bit of that is any way untrue?
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Piers the Peddlar of fake atrocity stories.
Not sure that did much for the credibility of his paper.
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Something that took place - or was certainly exposed after the article I posted
so could in no way effect that circulation drop. Morgan was widely praised for his stance at the time - certainly within the industry
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But it may very well be a bad thing for the very same newspapers
when their readership falls, their advertising revenues quickly follows, and they have to lay off more staff and edge closer to the cliff.
Unless you are arguing against the huge weight of evidence that shows this is what happens when papers get serious?
This is not to say there is no place for serious journalism. But it is the personality stuff that makes papers viable businesses.
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The personal attack on the marchers is bullshit, for a start.
Millions of people who knew that a war was being fought on false pretences, and/or correctly predicted that it would end badly, marched in protest. But despite being correct in their analysis, they are sneered at such terms as 'wastrels and eco-mentalists'. They certainly worked harder to develop an understanding of the conflict than the jingoists who backed it. And they certainly didn't march for 'eco-mentalism'.
The destruction of the Iraqi state and the subsequent vacuum into which extremists poured was predictable, hence the rise of ISIS was a consequence of the war.
Pretending to give a damn about Saddam is nonsense too. Such 'strongmen', are no problem when they are strategic allies, so crocodile tears about the nature of the regime are entirely fake.
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The nature of political discourse is the way it is in this country not because of the press, but
because of the entrenched, class- and ideology-based nature of the two main parties, which polarises debate to such an extent that it becomes more like a discussion between rival football supporters than a political conversation. The fact that there are so many people (and I include myself in this) who would never vote for one or other party regardless of their policies is the real problem, since it makes everything into a shouting match. And, in a shouting match, personal insults are always going to be a currency.
The nature and editorial direction of the press and media merely reflects that situation. It doesn't create it.
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The nature of political discourse is the way it is in this country not because of the press, but
because of your mum, do you mean?
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![hehe](images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif)
Essentially, yes.
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Millions of people did not 'know', hardly anyone 'knew' until afterwards
Thw World needs a good war or 2 every now and then
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A, to paraphrase, Mrs Thatch, if you want something done you ask the Germans or the Americans;
if you want something said, you ask Britain.
We are an island. A small, fairly insignificant one at that. It doesn't really matter what we do (or even that we do anything at all), so instead we just talk, in the bland, light-hearted, flippant way you *can* talk if nobody is waiting for you to actually solve anything.
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Whenever I hear the phrase 'right-thinking people', I reach for my revolver. j, since all it ever
means is 'people who agree with me'.
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The problems you mention were results of the way in which it was prosecuted, not the fact of its
prosecution, though. The disbanding of the Iraqi military and exclusion of all Ba'ath party members from power - along with the favouring of the Shi'ites over the Sunnis - were strategic errors in the post-war administartion that led to the current situation. They could and should have been avoided, but they were nothing to do with the aims and objectives of the war itself.
Thus, the fact that the way in which the war was prosecuted has had negative consequences does not ipso facto make those who marched against the war correct, I'm afraid, since they were simply marching against the fact of its prosecution and could have had no idea what the outcomes were likely to be.
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I used it knowingly with a Jamie Oliver sized tongue in my cheek
So fond are you and Sir C of it I had hope it might be picked up on.
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How is Jamie?
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I wasnt claiming any knowledge of it
merely that it did the exact opposite of what they wanted to do
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Am I missing something? We wanted to go to work and we did
![Shrug](images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif)
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Still voted Bliar back in though. Not to mention Bush and Howard.
All that marching and shouting turned out to be little more than banter.