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The Levellers were fantastic.
i really needed that after last week.
It was a strange old evening in colchester. There was music in the cafes at night and revolution in the air.
Berni, Sir C, you have been warned :-)
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Well today you can cheer yourself up by watching the two wings of the Labour party tearing lumps off
each other. :hehe:
Seriously, though, are these chaps who keep proposing a shift further to the left as a way back to power *actually* mentally subnormal? I mean, the right wing of the Tory party may contain a fair number of headcases, but for sheer, pigheaded, delusional stupidity, the Labour left seems to have them beaten hands down.
They put one in mind of a waiter who, on having food sent back for being too salty, then takes the food away, adds more salt and then wonders why the customer still isn't accepting it.
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So, riots in the West End and mutterings of revolution in Colchester?
I really, really wish that these chaps would get their act together and foment some proper civil unrest.
The thought of God's Own British Army being confronted by an army of unwashed idiots with dreads is one to fill the heart with joy, p. :hehe:
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Were you not impressed by these righteous forces of the left sticking it to the man by
spraypainting 'f**k Tory Scum' on a statue dedicated to the women of World War Two?
Nice one lads. That'll show international capitalism.
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That's the caring left for you.
Such charmers.
The delightful Laurie Penny was firmly behind this action.
They call us 'scum'. :shrug:
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They are cursed with belief, b. i suppose you could form the view that the wipeout in scotland
Was about the lack of a clear anti austerity message but even this is a misunderstanding. There is a bg difference between policy and message. Policy may be left wong or not, but a message is either clear or it isnt. It wasnt and you cant win unless it is.
I think six months of bickering is fine. The important thing os to get the leadership right and the message right.
Nobody will remember this in five years time particularly as the conservstives will punched themselves in the nuts more recently over the eu :-)
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There would be fiddles as well. Nobody can resist a fiddle
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I didn't really see what their point was. Were they just rioting because democracy didn't go their
way? Was there anything more to it than sheer petulance?
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Just catching up on all the election coverage; the best bit seems to have been
Cameron apparently forgetting which football team he supports. Verily, this is the sort of opportunity his people would've been dreaming of!
Why won't lefties get it that toffs behaving like toffs actually goes down well with the voters. It's extremely reassuring for them to learn that their leader, a man who has been fabulously wealthy all his life, has better things to think about than which soccerball club is which. That's the whole point.
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It is because they hate you, b. particularly you. Sir C as well
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We'll see on that one. I wonder whether thirteen years in the political wilderness might have taught
the right wing of the tory party a lesson about not getting complacent and disappearing up its own arse. The Conservative party isn't used to that sort of thing and the memory of having its clothes so effectively stolen by Blair is still pretty raw.
Your point about belief is an interesting one, actually. I have been pointing out to everyone who keeps coming up to me with the 'shy tory' narrative that they're missing the point entirely. The point is that voting tory is not an ideological position for most people, but a pragmatic choice. Thus, plenty of people will vote tory without ever identifying as tories themselves, whereas Labour voters tend to identify as such on an ideological level. The problem being, of course, that until voting Labour is a similarly pragmatic choice for the voter, they will remain out of office.
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This is why Boris is so well-loved. He isn't trying to be a man of the people, which
ironically makes him much more a man of the people than those who do.
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Well I can see their point about me, but what have they got against Sir C?
He's a lovely chap: generous, charming, kind to animals and sentimental to a fault. I mean there's the unfortunate Bruce Springsteen business, but we all have our crosses to bear.
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And you are precisely correct. The conservstive party is a party of government, not of politics
It believes only in sound, sensible government and the protection of institutions from rampant silliness or ghastly notions such as progress.
The strike against conservstives is obviously that they dont believe in anything and in a political sense this is true. Aside from vague notions of small government, self reliance and hatred of the poor (i just put that one in for a laugh) they dont. What they do is produce a clear message that the average voter can understand and accept. Until labour do this they will remain in opposition.
Blair understood this but crucially he also understood how to craft the message. We hsve five years to find a team who can do the same.
I am going to get dragged into this, i just know it. Maybe it is time.....
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He doesnt buy fairtrade cocaine.
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Why, b. I don't quite know what to say. I'm deeply moved.
Such compliments from a gentleman of your intellect, erudition and standing within the community... I'm overwhelmed, soul. :cry:
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I don't see why voting for Labour can't be a pragmatic choice for those who see their
interests best served by it. There seems to be this theory going round that all labour voters are either media luvvies (the so-called 'metropolitan elite') or strident ideologues.
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Yes. The Conservatives also benefit from the fact that the British tend to be somewhat dubious about
ideology - at least when it is expressed as such. The trick is to be ideological whilst not frightening the horses.
That said, of course, the irony is that Mrs T was probably the most ideologically-driven Prime Minister this country has had since Gladstone.
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It can, that is the point. And under blair it was. Of course, most of it is a conjuring trick
With a lot of people it isnt even about the amount of tax you take fromthem as the difference is often minimal. It is about trust, identification and the choices you make.
I am actuslly slightly worse off under the tories and i am hard working, on a decent wage, dont claim any benefits. I do exactly what they claim they want yet they stick it to me.
Certsin people around me are in the same situation but they firmly believe they are personally better off even when it is obvious they are not. That is the magic pf the conservstive party.
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Yes, contrary to popular belief, life is actually a far simpler business
if you have money. This popular belief is, of course, mostly proposed by rich folk in order to stop the poor from stealing their cars.
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She was but she didnt preach it, at least not at first. She dangled practical carrots
And talked tough about unions.
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Look, those cartel bosses have children to feed, too, you know?
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It's like any other abusive relationship. The victim at least wants to be able to tell themself that
their abuser loves them, really. The odd bunch of flowers or box of chocolates after they've just bounced your head off the wall or blackened your eye makes all the difference.
Labour's problem is that it often finds it ideologically impossible to buy the flowers or chocolates because it sort of feels that their victims deserve it for being middle class.
This puts people off.
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Woman, though. Different matter entirely. I Imagine it's why chaps like to do the cooking nowadays.
For you it's a purely practical matter of being hungry and wanting to eat something nice. For *her*, it's "ideologically important to not be expected to cook.
Which is why Maggie doing a fry-up for those builders that time was such a cool move. Or HMQ fixing lavatories way back when.
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All true. I take umbrage that these unwashed lefty types should have it in for you.
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I was better off under Labour too. At least until the crash. And the redundancy.
I don’t know if I’d give them credit for that though, in the same way that I wouldn’t blame the current lot for me being one of the millions working shorter hours for less money in the post-crash bumping-along-the-bottom economy. I honestly have no idea whether the economy would be doing better or worse had Labour won the last election.
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Yes, yes, but what about the poor
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Well, one has to step over them, naturally.
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*On* them, ordinarily. But yes, If one is wearing the new Guccis.
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Well, yeah,cthat's a sizeable shift. I am in the same job and same situation
Just ever so slightly worse off given their tax and pension changes.
Not complaining, just noting that plenty of people in the same job, same situation believe they are financially better off even though they are demonstrably not. The conservstives mansge to convince people pf this despite the evidence in their wage slips.
That is what an ineffective opposition does for you. I like the way that people in essex are not remotely bashful about admitting thst their vote is determined solely by perceived personal gain. It is quite amusing thst they camt even get that right :hehe:
