You can always tell armed conflict's in the offing when you see economic illiterate

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

'Soviet-backed communist invasion' - well, that's how the Americans saw it. The North Vietnamese and their supporters in South Vietnam rather differed. And the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese.

There's a reason the Americans lost, Burney, and it has nothing to do with their military strategy.

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LOL! The majority of the Vietnamese people just wanted to be left the fvck alone and for people from both sides to stop killing them.

The idea that the VC were a popular local guerilla army is a myth. These people used to have to brutalise, murder and intimidate in order to get the help of the local population. That is not 'support' in any sense.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

I have one main concern about this potential conflict which I would like to raise.

It is not in any way going to impact on this summer's World Cup now is it??

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I hope so. And it would serve FIFA right if it did for giving the thing to Russia in the first place.

Mind you, it would be a bit awks if the Donald launched missile strikes just before kick off tonight. :-(

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Originally Posted by Burney

LOL! The majority of the Vietnamese people just wanted to be left the fvck alone and for people from both sides to stop killing them.

The idea that the VC were a popular local guerilla army is a myth. These people used to have to brutalise, murder and intimidate in order to get the help of the local population. That is not 'support' in any sense.

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Nothing you have said there is inconsistent with my post. But you seem to have missed the most important part, so I will highlight it for you again:

the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese

There was virtually no support for Diem, and therefore for the Americans, amongst the peasantry while the idea of a reunified Vietnam free from foreign influence carried some weight. The VC were no angels, but they were also not an utterly corrupt set of elitists backed by a foreign power.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Nothing you have said there is inconsistent with my post. But you seem to have missed the most important part, so I will highlight it for you again:

the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese

There was virtually no support for Diem, and therefore for the Americans, amongst the peasantry while the idea of a reunified Vietnam free from foreign influence carried some weight. The VC were no angels, but they were also not an utterly corrupt set of elitists backed by a foreign power.

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Nah, not really.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Nah, not really.

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Yeah, really. And the fact that you had a really nice banh mi in Saigon doesn't change that fact. :-)

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Yeah, really. And the fact that you had a really nice banh mi in Saigon doesn't change that fact. :-)

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That's right. Also, the conversations I have had with Vietnamese people over the course of multiple visits to Vietnam are entirely meaningless. Yes. Even the ones with guys who fought with ARVN and were subsequently despatched to re-education camps.

All meaningless because you saw a documentary on Sky and remembered 12% of the information. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by world's end stella

nothing you have said there is inconsistent with my post. But you seem to have missed the most important part, so i will highlight it for you again:

there was virtually no support for diem, and therefore for the americans, amongst the peasantry while the idea of a reunified vietnam free from foreign influence carried some weight. The vc were no angels, but they were also not an utterly corrupt set of elitists backed by a foreign power.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Yup. You wouldn't catch North Vietnam being backed by any foreign powers. And as for the idea of them not being corrupt, you have to be fvcking kidding.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

That's right. Also, the conversations I have had with Vietnamese people over the course of multiple visits to Vietnam are entirely meaningless. Yes. Even the ones with guys who fought with ARVN and were subsequently despatched to re-education camps.

All meaningless because you saw a documentary on Sky and remembered 12% of the information. :thumbup:

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And all those conversations held by Vietnam historians like Stanley Karnow, Neil Sheehan, David Halberstam etc etc and all that research they did that led to an endless number of books which I and a great many other people have read can all be ignored, despite them pretty much all concluding the same thing, because you and V went to Vietnam, stayed at a few expensive hotels, drank cocktails and ate a banh mi.

Sure. :-)

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Originally Posted by Burney

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Yup. You wouldn't catch North Vietnam being backed by any foreign powers. And as for the idea of them not being corrupt, you have to be fvcking kidding.

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:sigh: North Vietnam fought their own battles, Burney. I'm really not bothered where their arms came from. And you have - yet again - ignored the fundamental point.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

And all those conversations held by Vietnam historians like Stanley Karnow, Neil Sheehan, David Halberstam etc etc and all that research they did that led to an endless number of books which I and a great many other people have read can all be ignored, despite them pretty much all concluding the same thing, because you and V went to Vietnam, stayed at a few expensive hotels, drank cocktails and ate a banh mi.

Sure. :-)

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You weren't there, man. :shrug: