We're going to be runners up again. :-(

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Originally Posted by Peter

At least Saka got a full 90 minutes under his belt for England in a totally pointless game. Again!

That will do him good :-(

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I was about to say the same. Well played, Bukayo :-\

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

PS - HANG ON:

"I'm not really a fan of history as comedy."

Which means you either haven't read or don't appreciate the Flashman books.

In which case burn, heretic.

{You must have read this Burma memoir, Quartered Safe Out Here? That's when you realise how he went native, as all civilised Brits do in India. But it explains why Flashman's always getting bailed out by Indian troops. cf Kipling's Grave of the Hundred Head.}

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No, i have no real interest in stuff like that. I don't generally read for fun, it's for a purpose.

And I don't have an opinion on fhe English civil war. Too early for me. The US civil war, now you're talking :-)

Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

No, i have no real interest in stuff like that. I don't generally read for fun, it's for a purpose.

And I don't have an opinion on fhe English civil war. Too early for me. The US civil war, now you're talking :-)

Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

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Blackadder has a lot to answer for. That communist Ben Elton taught a whole generation that the first world war was a pointless farce and that all officers were retards. The 'Lions led by donkeys' nonsense is now considered historical fact by many of the hard of thinking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

No, i have no real interest in stuff like that. I don't generally read for fun, it's for a purpose.

And I don't have an opinion on fhe English civil war. Too early for me. The US civil war, now you're talking :-)

Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

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But the Eng Civ War {W3K} is one of the most fascinating things in UK and Euro history. It bookends the changeover from the walls of religion period to the enlightenment. The war of religion entered in Europe with the Peace of Westphalia ending the 30 years were in 1648. While second, we kill the king in 1649 and bring his son back in 1660.

But the vital difference is that well it ends the wars of religion in the UK, it's also the worlds first political revolution. This is 140 years before the French revolution which book ends the start of the transformation from the enlightenment to Romanticism.

Without the W3K and restoration, we've never had the Glorious revolution which gave us permanent parliament and effectively started our constitutional monarchy. This 140 year lead over France and consequently the rest of Europe is what set us up for global domination.

As such, it doesn't really matter whether we like the Wrong but Wromatics or the Right but Repulsives. It's the fact that we shook hands at stumps on the fifth day in 1660 that is the vital point.

Even if you've never lived in France, you can probably guess how important the revolution is to them. The French public, including my crusty, lefty mates take the same pride in the French revolution that the the British public, especially the right, take Spitfires at the Battle of Britain.

So when I've mentioned W3K to them, they are really shocked:

"What? You cut the head of your King too?"
"Oh yes. 140 years before you did."

Ending the wars of religion and starting the European enlightenment with the worlds first political revolution is a pretty major deal.

And it shows that if we give them enough rope, the English Civil War will eventually lead to us all living in safe European homes.

re: Flashman. Are you not into imperial history, then? I don't see how anyone that's in to 19th century British imperial history called love Flashman. That's why the only books I don't like the one set in America. I'm not really bothered about their Civil War, et cetera.

But the ones about the retreat from Kabul, the Sikh wars and the mutiny are brilliant. It's brilliant historic fiction.

"Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else." all of which is true of Flashman.

But if you're into World War II and/or military autobiographies, then GMF's Quartered Safe Out Here is up there with Goodbye To All That. But it's even better because it's got loads of Indians in it.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Blackadder has a lot to answer for. That communist Ben Elton taught a whole generation that the first world war was a pointless farce and that all officers were retards. The 'Lions led by donkeys' nonsense is now considered historical fact by many of the hard of thinking.

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I think the genuinely hard of thinking just found it funny and probably couldn't place it as WWI.

You are really referring to people you don't like, and they thought that anyway. Blackadder is merely indulging a prevailing view.

And anyway, it is largely true..... :-)

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

But the Eng Civ War {W3K} is one of the most fascinating things in UK and Euro history. It bookends the changeover from the walls of religion period to the enlightenment. The war of religion entered in Europe with the Peace of Westphalia ending the 30 years were in 1648. While second, we kill the king in 1649 and bring his son back in 1660.

But the vital difference is that well it ends the wars of religion in the UK, it's also the worlds first political revolution. This is 140 years before the French revolution which book ends the start of the transformation from the enlightenment to Romanticism.

Without the W3K and restoration, we've never had the Glorious revolution which gave us permanent parliament and effectively started our constitutional monarchy. This 140 year lead over France and consequently the rest of Europe is what set us up for global domination.

As such, it doesn't really matter whether we like the Wrong but Wromatics or the Right but Repulsives. It's the fact that we shook hands at stumps on the fifth day in 1660 that is the vital point.

Even if you've never lived in France, you can probably guess how important the revolution is to them. The French public, including my crusty, lefty mates take the same pride in the French revolution that the the British public, especially the right, take Spitfires at the Battle of Britain.

So when I've mentioned W3K to them, they are really shocked:

"What? You cut the head of your King too?"
"Oh yes. 140 years before you did."

Ending the wars of religion and starting the European enlightenment with the worlds first political revolution is a pretty major deal.

And it shows that if we give them enough rope, the English Civil War will eventually lead to us all living in safe European homes.

re: Flashman. Are you not into imperial history, then? I don't see how anyone that's in to 19th century British imperial history called love Flashman. That's why the only books I don't like the one set in America. I'm not really bothered about their Civil War, et cetera.

But the ones about the retreat from Kabul, the Sikh wars and the mutiny are brilliant. It's brilliant historic fiction.

"Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else." all of which is true of Flashman.

But if you're into World War II and/or military autobiographies, then GMF's Quartered Safe Out Here is up there with Goodbye To All That. But it's even better because it's got loads of Indians in it.

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There are many, many things that are simultaneously of tremendous significance and of no interest whatsoever to me.

I'm a later modernist.

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Originally Posted by Peter

There are many, many things that are simultaneously of tremendous significance and of no interest whatsoever to me.

I'm a later modernist.

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Oh, I get that. It's just I did W3K for one of my courses and later did a course on the changeover from the Enlightenment to Romanticism 1780-1830. And my A-level on the long C18th from the Glorious Rev to Waterloo/GRA/Slavery emancipation basically linked the two - the Gl Rev needed the W3K and Restoration to set the scene.

But I wasn't so interested in the W3k itself as opposed to the effects it had by starting the Enlightenment.

Have you read Quartered Safe.....? If not, you really should.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Oh, I get that. It's just I did W3K for one of my courses and later did a course on the changeover from the Enlightenment to Romanticism 1780-1830. And my A-level on the long C18th from the Glorious Rev to Waterloo/GRA/Slavery emancipation basically linked the two - the Gl Rev needed the W3K and Restoration to set the scene.

But I wasn't so interested in the W3k itself as opposed to the effects it had by starting the Enlightenment.

Have you read Quartered Safe.....? If not, you really should.

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I probably should read that. One of my grandfathers was stationed in Burma during the war.

He came back a qualified mechanic with a love of curry :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Oh, I get that. It's just I did W3K for one of my courses and later did a course on the changeover from the Enlightenment to Romanticism 1780-1830. And my A-level on the long C18th from the Glorious Rev to Waterloo/GRA/Slavery emancipation basically linked the two - the Gl Rev needed the W3K and Restoration to set the scene.

But I wasn't so interested in the W3k itself as opposed to the effects it had by starting the Enlightenment.

Have you read Quartered Safe.....? If not, you really should.

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I have the same view of pretty much every war. I am more interested in the causes and long lasting effects than I am the war itself.

WW2 is the exception as it is, by any measure, a genuinely exciting war. Had a bit of everything, real end to end stuff.

Good for the neutrals, as it were :-)

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Originally Posted by Peter

I have the same view of pretty much every war. I am more interested in the causes and long lasting effects than I am the war itself.

WW2 is the exception as it is, by any measure, a genuinely exciting war. Had a bit of everything, real end to end stuff.

Good for the neutrals, as it were :-)

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:nod: If I was only allowed to watch one TV series, it would be The World at War.