Andrew Neil and Squeaking Little Shít Owen Jones should settle this like men.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Think about what it actually means to be ‘opposed to the state of Israel’. To oppose the very existence of a defensible homeland for a people who in living memory have suffered the deliberate near-extermination of their race from the European continent. That should give you your answer.

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So, anti-zionist means anti-semitic? What if one's opposition is to the current form and practices of the state of Israel rather than to the principle of its very existence?

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Originally Posted by Peter

So, anti-zionist means anti-semitic? What if one's opposition is to the current form and practices of the state of Israel rather than to the principle of its very existence?

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In effect, yes. Anti-zionist = anti-semitic. Criticism of a state's behaviour is another matter and is generally perfectly legitimate. However, if such criticism comes from someone who has clear anti-zionist beliefs or sympathies, it's equally legitimate to be dubious about their motives.

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Originally Posted by Burney

In effect, yes. Anti-zionist = anti-semitic. Criticism of a state's behaviour is another matter and is generally perfectly legitimate. However, if such criticism comes from someone who has clear anti-zionist beliefs or sympathies, it's equally legitimate to be dubious about their motives.

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Dubious is fine.

I am still not convinced that AZ=AS. It can and frequently does but I still dont believe it has to. If for no other reason than it tends to suggest that zionism and being jewish are the same thing. I know plenty of jewish people who are horrified by that suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Dubious is fine.

I am still not convinced that AZ=AS. It can and frequently does but I still dont believe it has to. If for no other reason than it tends to suggest that zionism and being jewish are the same thing. I know plenty of jewish people who are horrified by that suggestion.

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:hehe: I knew the 'but there are anti-zionist Jews' thing was coming.

Oh, there are some highly-orthodox jews who are anti-zionist for batsh1t doctrinal reasons (or because they think Israel is too secular) and there are lefty Jews who hate Israel in just the same way that lefty goyim like Corbyn and McDonnell hate Britain.

The fact that there are people who are happy to hold their own people and their interests in contempt and ally with their enemies should not come as a surprise to someone of the British left, p.

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Originally Posted by Burney

:hehe: I knewOh, there are some highly-orthodox jews who are anti-zionist for batsh1t doctrinal reasons (or because they think Israel is too secular) and there are lefty Jews who hate Israel in just the same way that lefty goyim like Corbyn and McDonnell hate Britain.

The fact that there are people who are happy to hold their own people and their interests in contempt should not come as a surprise to someone of the left, p.

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And you just did it there, again. If you are jewish then Israel represents 'your people' and 'your interests'.......

Surely your jewish man on the street is allowed to make up his own mind on that isnt he?

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Originally Posted by Peter

And you just did it there, again. If you are jewish then Israel represents 'your people' and 'your interests'.......

Surely your jewish man on the street is allowed to make up his own mind on that isnt he?

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Well if as a modern European Jew you don't think it's in your interests that there exists a Jewish nation to which you can flee the next time your neighbours decide to start killing you, I'd say you're a fvcking idiot.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well if as a modern European Jew you don't think it's in your interests that there exists a Jewish nation to which you can flee the next time your neighbours decide to start killing you, I'd say you're a fvcking idiot.

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So now jews are idiots. Well, just the ones that disagree with what you think they should think......

I mean, what's wrong with New York? I know where I would rather be if it did all kick off.

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Originally Posted by Peter

So now jews are idiots. Well, just the ones that disagree with what you think they should think......

I mean, what's wrong with New York? I know where I would rather be if it did all kick off.

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No, p. Some jews can be idiots. As can some everyone. And leftists are more prone to idiocy than most in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Burney

No, p. Some jews can be idiots. As can some everyone. And leftists are more prone to idiocy than most in my experience.

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Again, just those that disagree with you. I am the lefty, it is supposed to be me shutting down debate.