C'mon out MONTY!!! We want to talk football with you

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

08-30-2017, 03:22 PM
Monty92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Fine, but if Leicester can achieve it despite all that, how much worse does that make the fact that a team with our resources and talent hasn't done so for 12 years?

Let's be honest, if we'd played to our potential that season, we'd have won the league. The fact we didn't is actually a pretty savage indictment of the character and leadership of that team.

Well, as I say, we are in good company. No-one else outside the hegemony has done it during that time either, however many managers they've gone through between them :shrug:
08-30-2017, 03:29 PM
Burney

[QUOTE=Monty92;4176676]Well, as I say, we are in good company. No-one else outside the hegemony has done it during that time either, however many managers they've gone through between them

Spurs bringing in Pocchettino rather than Harry Redknapp has hugely improved their chances of the league, though, no? From non-contenders, they're now contenders by virtue of changing managers. Do in other words, change can work, no?
08-30-2017, 03:32 PM
Monty92

[QUOTE=Burney;4176681]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty92

Well, as I say, we are in good company. No-one else outside the hegemony has done it during that time either, however many managers they've gone through between them

Spurs bringing in Pocchettino rather than Harry Redknapp has hugely improved their chances of the league, though, no? From non-contenders, they're now contenders by virtue of changing managers. Do in other words, change can work, no?

Have I ever suggested that change can't work? I've consistently said that there's no reason in theory that replacing Wenger couldn't improve our chances of winning the league.

Whether or not Pocchetino is better equipped to turn Spurs into title winners than Wenger is to do the same at Arsenal remains to be seen. Just as Wenger has had plenty of time to show that he has what it takes, Pocchetino has had very little time at all. In other words, both have plenty to prove, in different ways.
08-30-2017, 03:33 PM
Ash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty92

Well, as I say, we are in good company. No-one else outside the hegemony has done it during that time either, however many managers they've gone through between them :shrug:

But other sides have competed. We haven't. We are out of the race by spring. Every. Single. Year. Spurs and Liverpool have both fallen at the end but they have competed. And Leicester. Did we mention them?

So three clubs have competed. Each with less monies than Arsenal. But not Arsenal. Our record away from home against the top six is something like two wins out of the last 33 games.* Add Stoke as a bogey team and we generally **** our pants away to at least three teams with less money every season. We're just weak and fragile. :-( Like a beautiful machine when every part is working harmoniously, but so easily broken and so difficult to repair.

*I many have got this completely wrong. was on MOTD apparently. Not that I'd watch that under the circs.
08-30-2017, 03:35 PM
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

But other sides have competed. We haven't. We are out of the race by spring. Every. Single. Year. Spurs and Liverpool have both fallen at the end but they have competed. And Leicester. Did we mention them?

So three clubs have competed. Each with less monies than Arsenal. But not Arsenal. Our record away from home against the top six is something like two wins out of the last 33 games. Add Stoke as a bogey team and we generally **** our pants away to at least three teams with less money every season. We're just weak and fragile. :-( Like a beautiful machine when every part is working harmoniously, but so easily broken and so difficult to repair.

Cue jokes about my Rover not even being a beautiful machine.....
08-30-2017, 03:38 PM
Peter

[QUOTE=Monty92;4176683]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Have I ever suggested that change can't work? I've consistently said that there's no reason in theory that replacing Wenger couldn't improve our chances of winning the league.

Whether or not Pocchetino is better equipped to turn Spurs into title winners than Wenger is to do the same at Arsenal remains to be seen. Just as Wenger has had plenty of time to show that he has what it takes, Pocchetino has had very little time at all. In other words, both have plenty to prove, in different ways.

Im not really sure anyone feels that further proof is required where Wenger is concerned. :hehe:

Whether Pocchetino can turn Spurs into title winners remains to be seen. He has certainly turned them into competitive title challengers from the mess of three years ago and produced the best Spurs side in the last 30 years. I cant wait for him to leave.
08-30-2017, 03:38 PM
Monty92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

But other sides have competed. We haven't. We are out of the race by spring. Every. Single. Year. Spurs and Liverpool have both fallen at the end but they have competed. And Leicester. Did we mention them?

So three clubs have competed. Each with less monies than Arsenal. But not Arsenal. Our record away from home against the top six is something like two wins out of the last 33 games.* Add Stoke as a bogey team and we generally **** our pants away to at least three teams with less money every season. We're just weak and fragile. :-( Like a beautiful machine when every part is working harmoniously, but so easily broken and so difficult to repair.

*I many have got this completely wrong. was on MOTD apparently. Not that I'd watch that under the circs.

I don't think Spurs or Liverpool have meaningfully challenged for the title during the period you state. Liverpool got closest, but they remained outsiders until they lost their home game with Chelsea in April which basically killed their hopes. Spurs have not really got close at all.
08-30-2017, 03:39 PM
Burney

[QUOTE=Monty92;4176683]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Have I ever suggested that change can't work? I've consistently said that there's no reason in theory that replacing Wenger couldn't improve our chances of winning the league.

Whether or not Pocchetino is better equipped to turn Spurs into title winners than Wenger is to do the same at Arsenal remains to be seen. Just as Wenger has had plenty of time to show that he has the ability, Pocchetino has had very little time at all.

Your tenses are wrong. Wenger showed he had the ability. Given a very different set of circumstances: a two-team league; a limited transfer market and talent pool, he was capable of putting together title-winning sides. It could be argued that, given less favourable circumstances, he has demonstrated that he does not have the ability anymore and that we ought therefore to look for someone who does. 12 years is far longer than most managers get at any club and, given that he set himself the goal of winning leagues by now, you would have to say he has failed on his own terms and that it's time to go.
08-30-2017, 03:40 PM
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty92

I don't think Spurs or Liverpool have meaningfully challenged for the title during the period you state. Liverpool got closest, but they remained outsiders until they lost their home game with Chelsea in April which basically killed their hopes. Spurs have not really got close at all.

They were outsiders when they kicked off at home to Chelsea? Despite being in front with three games left and knowing even a draw would keep them ahead??
08-30-2017, 03:44 PM
World's End Stella

[QUOTE=Monty92;4176683]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Have I ever suggested that change can't work? I've consistently said that there's no reason in theory that replacing Wenger couldn't improve our chances of winning the league.

Whether or not Pocchetino is better equipped to turn Spurs into title winners than Wenger is to do the same at Arsenal remains to be seen. Just as Wenger has had plenty of time to show that he has what it takes, Pocchetino has had very little time at all. In other words, both have plenty to prove, in different ways.

No, you never said that change couldn't work. But you did say that keeping Wenger was our best chance of building a dynasty.

:clap:
08-30-2017, 03:46 PM
Monty92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

They were outsiders when they kicked off at home to Chelsea? Despite being in front with three games left and knowing even a draw would keep them ahead??

Ok, fair enough, my memory of that season is a little out. Yes, Liverpool meaningfully challenged. But Spurs didn't.
08-30-2017, 03:47 PM
World's End Stella

[QUOTE=Burney;4176689]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty92

Your tenses are wrong. Wenger showed he had the ability. Given a very different set of circumstances: a two-team league; a limited transfer market and talent pool, he was capable of putting together title-winning sides. It could be argued that, given less favourable circumstances, he has demonstrated that he does not have the ability anymore and that we ought therefore to look for someone who does. 12 years is far longer than most managers get at any club and, given that he set himself the goal of winning leagues by now, you would have to say he has failed on his own terms and that it's time to go.

And I would add he had an intimate knowledge of French football at a time when French football was having a purple patch and before most clubs had world wide scouting networks.

How many trophies would Wenger have won without Vieira, Henry and Pires? Certainly no league titles, I think.
08-30-2017, 03:48 PM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

They were outsiders when they kicked off at home to Chelsea? Despite being in front with three games left and knowing even a draw would keep them ahead??

One of the worst things about recent seasons has been having to be pleased when Chelsea win things rather than Liverpool or Spurs. :-(
08-30-2017, 03:50 PM
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty92

Ok, fair enough, my memory of that season is a little out. Yes, Liverpool meaningfully challenged. But Spurs didn't.

I would have been delighted if we had done what Spurs did last season. They went far closer than we have done in a decade.

Meaningful or not, it was pretty impressive.
08-30-2017, 03:52 PM
Peter

[QUOTE=World's End Stella;4176694]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

And I would add he had an intimate knowledge of French football at a time when French football was having a purple patch and before most clubs had world wide scouting networks.

How many trophies would Wenger have won without Vieira, Henry and Pires? Certainly no league titles, I think.

I have a lot of sympathy with much of what you say, so dont take this the wrong way; if you ever produce that little list again without including Dennis Bergkamp then I shall be mightily irritated to the point of not wishing to converse with you.

I shall let this first offence pass without further comment.
08-30-2017, 03:53 PM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

I would have been delighted if we had done what Spurs did last season. They went far closer than we have done in a decade.

Meaningful or not, it was pretty impressive.

This is the thing: we now have to live in a world where it is necessary even to consider the possibility of Spurs winning the league.

I mean, what the actual fúck is that about? :-(
08-30-2017, 03:54 PM
World's End Stella

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

I would have been delighted if we had done what Spurs did last season. They went far closer than we have done in a decade.

Meaningful or not, it was pretty impressive.

Spurs were 4 points back with 4 games left - that sounds like a challenge to me, I'd certainly take it after the last 10 years
08-30-2017, 03:56 PM
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Spurs were 4 points back with 4 games left - that sounds like a challenge to me, I'd certainly take it after the last 10 years

That would be like a dream. Almost close enough to be disappointed when you dont win it.
08-30-2017, 03:57 PM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

That would be like a dream. Almost close enough to be disappointed when you dont win it.

Yeah. Remember being close enough to win a league and not doing so? Those were the days. I was young back then. :old:
08-30-2017, 03:59 PM
World's End Stella

[QUOTE=Peter;4176699]

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I have a lot of sympathy with much of what you say, so dont take this the wrong way; if you ever produce that little list again without including Dennis Bergkamp then I shall be mightily irritated to the point of not wishing to converse with you.

I shall let this first offence pass without further comment.

Um, my point was that Wenger was very fortunate to have ended up with those players as he knew them well from his days in French football when they were junior players and he was able to buy them in no small part because other clubs didn't have the scouting networks available to them that would have been needed to discover them. Nowadays he would have a much harder time i.e. Mbappe.

Dennis wasn't relevant because he didn't buy him.

Good thing you never saw this, eh? :-)

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?...11#post4176211
08-30-2017, 04:02 PM
Burney

[QUOTE=World's End Stella;4176710]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

Um, my point was that Wenger was very fortunate to have ended up with those players as he knew them well from his days in French football when they were junior players and he was able to buy them in no small part because other clubs didn't have the scouting networks available to them that would have been needed to discover them. Nowadays he would have a much harder time i.e. Mbappe.

Dennis wasn't relevant because he didn't buy him.

Good thing you never saw this, eh? :-)

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?...11#post4176211

I remember thinking Chelsea signing Essien was the death-knell for that period when we got all the best young Frogs. He was exactly the sort of player we'd have picked up for tuppence ha'penny a few years earlier.
08-30-2017, 04:03 PM
Peter

[QUOTE=World's End Stella;4176710]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

Um, my point was that Wenger was very fortunate to have ended up with those players as he knew them well from his days in French football when they were junior players and he was able to buy them in no small part because other clubs didn't have the scouting networks available to them that would have been needed to discover them. Nowadays he would have a much harder time i.e. Mbappe.

Dennis wasn't relevant because he didn't buy him.

Good thing you never saw this, eh? :-)

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?...11#post4176211

I think I am going to be sick :puke:
08-30-2017, 04:05 PM
World's End Stella

[QUOTE=Peter;4176714]

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I think I am going to be sick :puke:

:hehe:

And not a single bite, Peter! Even after mentioning Sheringham's name in the same sentence as Dennis'.

Shocking lack of standards on this place and no mistake.
08-30-2017, 06:20 PM
redgunamo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

Do they still do all that, post Hill Wood?

Sort of, I suppose..

https://www.arsenal.com/sites/defaul...?itok=p9xVKnYT

https://www.arsenal.com/news/news-ar...-the-boardroom

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:59 PM.