Bogtrotters to the west, bogwogs to the east. Also 'Belgian' is surely an insulting term on its own?
It is a tough sell, I agree. My question was to those who are happy with one and not the other, not some contorted moral question about the right to throw ideological stones.
I wouldn't say those in Brussels were far greater, but then I don't have a problem with either. Democracy is not the be all and end all to me- I think my point is that it isn't for a lot of other people until the undemocratic institution in question speaks with a French accent.
We don't conform to most modern (18th century onwards) interpretations of democracy. No separation of church and state, unelected Head of State, mangled unelected executive that is drawn directly from the legislature, unelected second chamber with significant, historical legal functions, no codified constitution, antiquated voting system....
On the plus side we get to directly elect the people who organise the binmen and street lighting, and we now have a Mayor of Birmingham…. ;)
Of course. But it speaking with a French accent is a fundamental problem. We've never really signed up to this idea of destroying the nation state and breaking down national identities. To an Englishman, it is still 'them' (all foreigners) and 'us' (the English with the unfortunate celts allowed to join in if they behave). That is not a criticism. It is an attitude of mind that has served us well for rather a long time, in fact.
Ultimately, it boils down to this, p: You can't trust foreigners. They're not as good as Englishmen. That's just a fact.
No, because our democratic structures pre-date those concepts of democracy. What's more, they've proved fairly robust by virtue of their adaptability. Ultimately, that's the thing about the UK system: whatever it's theoretical flaws, it actually works remarkably well.
Oh, I'm all for waving the monarchy off into the sunset and abolishing the house of Lords, but Queenie doesn't actually do anything really political. We're hardly a theocracy, at least not untill the Alans take over, and binmen are terribly important, don't you think? The only thing most of us really expect from our Local Authority to do well is take the damn rubbish away.
I don't think they did give that message, it was just a general doom n gloom pitch about how terrible things might become. But I think rather a lot of people listened to that message and didn't really believe it, they thought that ultimately a reasonable exit would be negotiated.
Had the terms of the referendum been clearly defined as hard Brexit we would have avoided that ambiguity and not had as much uncertainty as we do now.