Let's forget about yesterday. Dwelling on that is not the answer.

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Originally Posted by John Bunnell

If we actually played good football and have been a bit unlucky I'd be optimistic as well looking at it that way... But our football is abysmal. So zero optimism in fact I'm bracing myself for a 3rd place finish.

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That's the spirit.

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Originally Posted by Rich

I don't know how many times I have to say it but it's the way that PL teams setup against us. We have the data. We know that Arsenal specifically a much deeper defensive line than any other team in the PL. This isn't because opposition are worried about us but that they are exploiting are technical deficiencies in the final third - why wouldn't they? It's their best chance of getting something from the game.

In the CL group stages this mantra doesn't exist. We are playing against clubs with egos and, as we have seen, we absolutely thrive when given the extra space. I imagine that clubs will look to exploit the very deep blocks against us in two-legged ties and that will ultimately be our downfall in the QF or SF.

If you look at every single one (zero exceptions) of the top clubs in England and Europe; their front lines are packed full of technical quality. That is something where we are hugely deficient. It will obviously be addressed in the summer and I think it's one of the final things we need to do to get this team into Stage 5 of Arteta's/KSE's 5 stage plan.

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Here you go, Rich. Because it's Friday and I'm in a good mood, I have a present for you. A small lesson in football that applies directly to our current situation. Have a read, a think and a great weekend!

The best way to overcome low blocks is to move the ball quickly through midfield so that the opposition does not have time to set the low block up. This makes it much easier for the attacking players to be effective however it has to be balanced against conceding position in a dangerous position.

Enjoy! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by WES

Here you go, Rich. Because it's Friday and I'm in a good mood, I have a present for you. A small lesson in football that applies directly to our current situation. Have a read, a think and a great weekend!

The best way to overcome low blocks is to move the ball quickly through midfield so that the opposition does not have time to set the low block up. This makes it much easier for the attacking players to be effective however it has to be balanced against conceding position in a dangerous position.

Enjoy! :thumbup:

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The data also shows that we have (by far) the highest defensive line in the league. Effectively playing the game in our oppositions half. This demonstrates why we cannnot do as you say. We are probably the best in the world at playing through our midfield (with Zubimendi, Rice and Odegaard that should come as no surprise).

This is why teams will seek to prevent us doing as you say. It's almost as if the top 1% of football managers in the world know how to exploit certain stragegies to their advantage.

I would suggest putting your theory book down and watching what actually happens on the pitch. And how tactics change throughout a game and how quickly the opposition adapt to combat those changes.

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Originally Posted by Rich

The data also shows that we have (by far) the highest defensive line in the league. Effectively playing the game in our oppositions half. This demonstrates why we cannnot do as you say. We are probably the best in the world at playing through our midfield (with Zubimendi, Rice and Odegaard that should come as no surprise).

This is why teams will seek to prevent us doing as you say. It's almost as if the top 1% of football managers in the world know how to exploit certain stragegies to their advantage.

I would suggest putting your theory book down and watching what actually happens on the pitch. And how tactics change throughout a game and how quickly the opposition adapt to combat those changes.

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Jesus wept :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Rich

I don't know how many times I have to say it but it's the way that PL teams setup against us. We have the data. We know that Arsenal specifically a much deeper defensive line than any other team in the PL. This isn't because opposition are worried about us but that they are exploiting are technical deficiencies in the final third - why wouldn't they? It's their best chance of getting something from the game.

In the CL group stages this mantra doesn't exist. We are playing against clubs with egos and, as we have seen, we absolutely thrive when given the extra space. I imagine that clubs will look to exploit the very deep blocks against us in two-legged ties and that will ultimately be our downfall in the QF or SF.

If you look at every single one (zero exceptions) of the top clubs in England and Europe; their front lines are packed full of technical quality. That is something where we are hugely deficient. It will obviously be addressed in the summer and I think it's one of the final things we need to do to get this team into Stage 5 of Arteta's/KSE's 5 stage plan.

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We had this discussion a few weeks ago and I left you with a very simple question- explain the huge disparity in our goalscoring home and away.

Low block (as if it is some new magical tool!) does not explain it. If anything, the low block helps us win territory and set pieces which are our biggest source of goals.

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Originally Posted by Peter

We had this discussion a few weeks ago and I left you with a very simple question- explain the huge disparity in our goalscoring home and away.

Low block (as if it is some new magical tool!) does not explain it. If anything, the low block helps us win territory and set pieces which are our biggest source of goals.

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We're wasting our time, Peter :shrug:

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Originally Posted by WES

Yes, exactly. But my conclusion, therefore, is that it is not as simple as Arteta teaching them to play that way, or not teaching them to play another way. If that was the issue we would not have seen the performances in the CL and in the league (less so) that we have.

I think the problem is more complex. Far too complex for a bunch of windbags on the internet like us to understand. :-)

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I think standards in the CL are lower than the premier league. We'll only really see the quality in the latter stages.

I know it isnt as simple as 'get 1-0 up and then destroy the game' but as a coach he must see that that is what is happening. He must see the lack of creativity, the drop in tempo, the lack of press. Either he doesn't care or he cant change it.

Either way, it doesn't reflect well on him :-(

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Originally Posted by Rich

The data also shows that we have (by far) the highest defensive line in the league. Effectively playing the game in our oppositions half. This demonstrates why we cannnot do as you say. We are probably the best in the world at playing through our midfield (with Zubimendi, Rice and Odegaard that should come as no surprise).

This is why teams will seek to prevent us doing as you say. It's almost as if the top 1% of football managers in the world know how to exploit certain stragegies to their advantage.

I would suggest putting your theory book down and watching what actually happens on the pitch. And how tactics change throughout a game and how quickly the opposition adapt to combat those changes.

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You are confusing defensive line with average positions. Not the same thing at all and a huge swing in data, particularly when you take 5 minutes over every corner.

We don't pass through midfield at all, we play around it. Which is the point Wes is making. Partey was great at breaking lines, playing straight, forward passes through midfield. Our current midfield dont do it enough. We are too slow in possession right from the back to the front. Even Aeteta knows this.

The key to creating holes in a low block is the ball. Defenders shift across and back in relation to the focal point- the ball. The quicker you move it across, forward, back, the more likely you are to open small spaces in the box. Spaces that are quickly closed. So you have to hit them early.

It doesn't require incredible technique. It requires intelligence and telepathy.

Or you can just win corners :-)

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Originally Posted by WES

We're wasting our time, Peter :shrug:

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Old Rich has a special level of hatred for our forward players....... he's lucky he never had to watch Perry Groves :-)

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Originally Posted by Peter

Old Rich has a special level of hatred for our forward players....... he's lucky he never had to watch Perry Groves :-)

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Lee Chapman :-(