Arteta

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Second every season is hardly a sacking offence. Unless we've all completely misunderstood what we're up against :-\

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With respect, this season we have been up against **** all. City have been ****!

Our only obstacle has been ourselves. And some of us have been pointing this out since Old Trafford, with irritating regularity....

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Originally Posted by Peter

With respect, this season we have been up against **** all. City have been ****!

Our only obstacle has been ourselves. And some of us have been pointing this out since Old Trafford, with irritating regularity....

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Time for some perspective, Peter. It was an awful performance but the idea that the team that is top of the table by 2 points (at least) and who won all 8 CL games including comprehensive defeats of Munich, Atl Madrid and Inter Milan, is that bad of a team is really a bit silly.

We should be better, and I don't think we'll win the league, but we're only as bad as you say if you ignore all the games in which we've been very good.

Deep breaths, and alcohol, this is what we need.

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Originally Posted by WES

Time for some perspective, Peter. It was an awful performance but the idea that the team that is top of the table by 2 points (at least) and who won all 8 CL games including comprehensive defeats of Munich, Atl Madrid and Inter Milan, is that bad of a team is really a bit silly.

We should be better, and I don't think we'll win the league, but we're only as bad as you say if you ignore all the games in which we've been very good.

Deep breaths, and alcohol, this is what we need.

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I'm not saying we are a terrible team. But our tactics and performances away from home are staggeringly poor and a mile below what we are capable of. And it has cost us a title we should have won comfortably.

We could still have a good run in the champions league. The format will suit us as we will have the chance to win ties at home second leg. Which means we can be ruthlessly negative away from home.

But the title is done. Best chance in a generation is disappearing before our eyes because we are too negative, too scared to actually play. And our coach has got his entire approach horribly wrong.

Its ****ing infuriating :-(

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Originally Posted by Peter

I'm not saying we are a terrible team. But our tactics and performances away from home are staggeringly poor and a mile below what we are capable of. And it has cost us a title we should have won comfortably.

We could still have a good run in the champions league. The format will suit us as we will have the chance to win ties at home second leg. Which means we can be ruthlessly negative away from home.

But the title is done. Best chance in a generation is disappearing before our eyes because we are too negative, too scared to actually play. And our coach has got his entire approach horribly wrong.

Its ****ing infuriating :-(

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Wolves was disappointing. Previous away game was Brentford who are both good and in form.

Prior two away games we beat Leeds 4-0 and Inter Milan 3-1.

Perspective.

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Originally Posted by WES

Wolves was disappointing. Previous away game was Brentford who are both good and in form.

Prior two away games we beat Leeds 4-0 and Inter Milan 3-1.

Perspective.

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Be fair, Wes. My perspective hasn't changed since the first day of the season, where we limped to a fortunate win at Old Trafford against a terrible United side, with a pitiful performance and a scrambled goal from a corner.

Or the following game where we surrendered to a piss poor Liverpool side at Anfield in the second half.

Or a few games later where we scrambled over the line at Fulham.

Put it this way- Leeds and Burnley are the only away games we have won by more than one goal. Every other game has gone to the 95th minute with the result up in the air.

Late goals have cost us points at Liverpool, at Sunderland, at Villa, at Brentford. And now at Wolves. 8 points dropped to late goals away from home.

It is inevitable that this will happen if you keep relying on such fine margins. I've said it all season, and I'm not the only one saying it.

And i am afraid that too many people have spent the season making too many excuses for this approach. They're a good side, the weather is bad, he's injured etc etc.

If we hadn't gifted them the equaliser last night, people would be happy today. They'd be saying we did enough, got the job done etc etc

The truth is that the approach to these games is wrong. It is abysmal to watch. We are capable of so much more.

If I thought we were **** I would be fine with it. We're not. We're just ****ing negative. Scared.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Be fair, Wes. My perspective hasn't changed since the first day of the season, where we limped to a fortunate win at Old Trafford against a terrible United side, with a pitiful performance and a scrambled goal from a corner.

Or the following game where we surrendered to a piss poor Liverpool side at Anfield in the second half.

Or a few games later where we scrambled over the line at Fulham.

Put it this way- Leeds and Burnley are the only away games we have won by more than one goal. Every other game has gone to the 95th minute with the result up in the air.

Late goals have cost us points at Liverpool, at Sunderland, at Villa, at Brentford. And now at Wolves. 8 points dropped to late goals away from home.

It is inevitable that this will happen if you keep relying on such fine margins. I've said it all season, and I'm not the only one saying it.

And i am afraid that too many people have spent the season making too many excuses for this approach. They're a good side, the weather is bad, he's injured etc etc.

If we hadn't gifted them the equaliser last night, people would be happy today. They'd be saying we did enough, got the job done etc etc

The truth is that the approach to these games is wrong. It is abysmal to watch. We are capable of so much more.

If I thought we were **** I would be fine with it. We're not. We're just ****ing negative. Scared.

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We have also conceded to a lot of "Worldies", my issue is that we have the players to play a far more attractive game. Seem more concerned with not losing rather than winning.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

We have also conceded to a lot of "Worldies", my issue is that we have the players to play a far more attractive game. Seem more concerned with not losing rather than winning.

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Exactly this.

And even where you do have to 'manage' games out, good sides do that with the ball. They move and circulate possession, control the ball and the tempo.

We retreat and sit in position, getting deeper and allowing balls into the box. And shots.

So even where game management is needed, I hate the way we do it. Arteta doesn't trust them to be able to move and keep the ball. He'd rather they go static and stay in position.

We're doing the wrong thing and we're doing it the wrong way. This is how ordinary sides play.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Be fair, Wes. My perspective hasn't changed since the first day of the season, where we limped to a fortunate win at Old Trafford against a terrible United side, with a pitiful performance and a scrambled goal from a corner.

Or the following game where we surrendered to a piss poor Liverpool side at Anfield in the second half.

Or a few games later where we scrambled over the line at Fulham.

Put it this way- Leeds and Burnley are the only away games we have won by more than one goal. Every other game has gone to the 95th minute with the result up in the air.

Late goals have cost us points at Liverpool, at Sunderland, at Villa, at Brentford. And now at Wolves. 8 points dropped to late goals away from home.

It is inevitable that this will happen if you keep relying on such fine margins. I've said it all season, and I'm not the only one saying it.

And i am afraid that too many people have spent the season making too many excuses for this approach. They're a good side, the weather is bad, he's injured etc etc.

If we hadn't gifted them the equaliser last night, people would be happy today. They'd be saying we did enough, got the job done etc etc

The truth is that the approach to these games is wrong. It is abysmal to watch. We are capable of so much more.

If I thought we were **** I would be fine with it. We're not. We're just ****ing negative. Scared.

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Basically you're saying that we've under-achieved all season, and this is particularly gauling because the rest of the league has as well.

And yes, you've done so consistently :-)

And you're right, and you make fair points. But under-achieving and being terrible/sh&t/whatever are very different things. And it should be pointed out more often, how many times we've shown how good we can be. Although this just increases the frustration, I guess

But when people start talking of Arteta being sacked and selling players etc etc they are losing perspective. We're top of the league and in a cup final and were top of the CL league.

I have confidence in Arteta that you don't. Only time will tell, of course

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Originally Posted by WES

Basically you're saying that we've under-achieved all season, and this is particularly gauling because the rest of the league has as well.

And yes, you've done so consistently :-)

And you're right, and you make fair points. But under-achieving and being terrible/sh&t/whatever are very different things. And it should be pointed out more often, how many times we've shown how good we can be. Although this just increases the frustration, I guess

But when people start talking of Arteta being sacked and selling players etc etc they are losing perspective. We're top of the league and in a cup final and were top of the CL league.

I have confidence in Arteta that you don't. Only time will tell, of course

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I had confidence in Arteta. I still believe he is an excellent coach. But he HAS to be able to see this problem and he has to change how we play.

I really thought that the signings in the summer would.make us more adventurous. Give us more options and enable us to rotate and really attack games. That is why those first two away games annoyed me so much. It was obvious immediately that we were going to continue down this path.

So I've never really believed that we will win the league this season. I flirted with it when City looked like collapsing, but of course we stumbled when we had a chance to pull away and now we've done it again.

If we were even trying to play the way we did post Dubai then I thino we would be 10 points clear now. We'll never know.

But, as I said, the title race might be over but there are three other competitions we can have a go in. Season isnt over.

We can discuss the future in the summer. Not now.

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Originally Posted by WES

Basically you're saying that we've under-achieved all season, and this is particularly gauling because the rest of the league has as well.

And yes, you've done so consistently :-)

And you're right, and you make fair points. But under-achieving and being terrible/sh&t/whatever are very different things. And it should be pointed out more often, how many times we've shown how good we can be. Although this just increases the frustration, I guess

But when people start talking of Arteta being sacked and selling players etc etc they are losing perspective. We're top of the league and in a cup final and were top of the CL league.

I have confidence in Arteta that you don't. Only time will tell, of course

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It?s probably a combination of factors. Lots of injuries across the squad, resulting in long term injuries and loss of form from key players. Too many games, it?s been two a week for a while now.
Arteta?s rigid mindset. He?s still reliant on favourites rather than developing the rest of the squad. Timber?s playing far too often where White could be used, likewise Norgaard for Zubi.
We?re 70% through the season and we still don?t know if Gyok, Eze & Madueke represented value, or if Arteta has fallen short in getting a tune out of them.
Lastly, the ever reliable Trossard, Saka & Odins form has fallen off a cliff.
You can?t rule out the impact of any new manager with a fresh approach and the way they can revitalise any squad but you do need to endure it?s the right appointment.
It may be that Arteta?s currency among the squad is falling. He?s in his 6th season so it wouldn?t come as a huge shock if the club decided to call time, following another fallow year.
Either way, this is not the form of champions and something has clearly gone very wrong.