It takes a special talent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redgunamo

More of them should give it a go on the way up, because it actually is the pinnacle of the game. It's one thing to win trophies with a club, but national legendary status, knighthoods etc. follow if you do that for your country.

---

And national ridicule and vilification follows if you don't, which is the reality for almost all international managers.

The one problem with football becoming more technical and better coached at club level is that it makes it even harder to replicate at international level. Klopp could not be Klopp in an international role- his approach relies on the physical conditioning of his players to be able to cope with a certain tempo and there is no way he can manage this with players he doesn't oversee.

The best international managers are those that can get across a simple tactical approach to players quickly. Arteta, for example, has many strengths as a coach but this doesn't currently appear to be one of them. Our new recruits tend to be slightly baffled on arrival by an overload of information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Is part of that not economics?

My Juve mate rates Calafiore but they couldn't spend £40m on a defender. {Would rather get Kiwior for half that.}

So no-one in Italy, France, Germany or Spain outside the big two would ever dream of paying the £70m CPFC want for that Guelhi or however it's spelled.

In the old days, the Frogs bought Hoddle/Waddle, the Wops Gazza/Ince/Platt etc.

Now it's the other way 'round.

---

As P says, we mostly overrate our players. Maybe the big clubs abroad think he's not that special, worth that money.

When they had the one foreigner-rule in Italy, it was worth putting up the big bucks for special talents like the ones you mention. For players like Brady, Bergkamp and Bendtner too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

And national ridicule and vilification follows if you don't, which is the reality for almost all international managers.

The one problem with football becoming more technical and better coached at club level is that it makes it even harder to replicate at international level. Klopp could not be Klopp in an international role- his approach relies on the physical conditioning of his players to be able to cope with a certain tempo and there is no way he can manage this with players he doesn't oversee.

The best international managers are those that can get across a simple tactical approach to players quickly. Arteta, for example, has many strengths as a coach but this doesn't currently appear to be one of them. Our new recruits tend to be slightly baffled on arrival by an overload of information.

---

That'll surely change though. The whole UEFA-badge malarkey will bring even more of the tactical and preparation hegemony that's been creeping in. The gap between club and country football must close and eventually disappear.

Even now, the England team under Southgate might challenge for Europe through the Premier League. They don't give much away, decent set-pieces and occasional moments of real attacking quality? Reminiscent of dear old George in the Cup Winners' Cup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redgunamo

As P says, we mostly overrate our players. Maybe the big clubs abroad think he's not that special, worth that money.

When they had the one foreigner-rule in Italy, it was worth putting up the big bucks for special talents like the ones you mention. For players like Brady, Bergkamp and Bendtner too.

---

I don't think it is that our players aren't good. It is just they are good at the wrong things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

I don't think it is that our players aren't good. It is just they are good at the wrong things.

---

Exactly this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redgunamo

That'll surely change though. The whole UEFA-badge malarkey will bring even more of the tactical and preparation hegemony that's been creeping in. The gap between club and country football must close and eventually disappear.

Even now, the England team under Southgate might challenge for Europe through the Premier League. They don't give much away, decent set-pieces and occasional moments of real attacking quality? Reminiscent of dear old George in the Cup Winners' Cup.

---

If that is what we are going for then I think Sean Dyche is the man :-)

I think part of the stick Southgate got was because English fans still don't appreciate a tactical and containing approach. They find it boring and prefer us to be rushing out of the trenches screaming at the enemy. I have seen plenty of people saying that they would rather see this brand of football with worse results (which is ridiculous, by the way). We pride ourselves on playing with passion and spirit, not sneaky, underhand, tactical nonsense.

In other words, we need to grow up. :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redgunamo

Exactly this.

---

Or rather they are not good at the right things.

And when we find one who is we misunderstand them. We all thought Paul Gascoigne was brilliant because of the dribbles, and drinking, and spectacular stuff. His real genius was that he was capable of doing everything, including mastery of possession. That night when we drew in Italy under Hoddle he gave an absolute masterclass in midfield ball retention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

If that is what we are going for then I think Sean Dyche is the man :-)

I think part of the stick Southgate got was because English fans still don't appreciate a tactical and containing approach. They find it boring and prefer us to be rushing out of the trenches screaming at the enemy. I have seen plenty of people saying that they would rather see this brand of football with worse results (which is ridiculous, by the way). We pride ourselves on playing with passion and spirit, not sneaky, underhand, tactical nonsense.

In other words, we need to grow up. :-)

---

Message reported to Big Ange and his WHL worshippers.
It’ll all end in tears etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter

If that is what we are going for then I think Sean Dyche is the man :-)

I think part of the stick Southgate got was because English fans still don't appreciate a tactical and containing approach. They find it boring and prefer us to be rushing out of the trenches screaming at the enemy. I have seen plenty of people saying that they would rather see this brand of football with worse results (which is ridiculous, by the way). We pride ourselves on playing with passion and spirit, not sneaky, underhand, tactical nonsense.

In other words, we need to grow up. :-)

---

No it's not.

1. I might actually watch a few mins of Eng if it was all midget no.10 sexy Wengerball.
2. Arsenal players in Eng team have a longer holiday and pre-season.
3. We can abuse all the non-AFC Eng players for letting their country down.

Winners all round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

No it's not.

1. I might actually watch a few mins of Eng if it was all midget no.10 sexy Wengerball.
2. Arsenal players in Eng team have a longer holiday and pre-season.
3. We can abuse all the non-AFC Eng players for letting their country down.

Winners all round.

---

See, the problem with people like you is you only care about Arsenal. You couldn't actually give a **** what happens to England.

I'm the same :-)