Speaking of getting slaughtered, I went to the bull fighting in Sevilla on Saturday

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I never noticed any of the bulls being unable to lift their heads

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Apparently, one bullfight and you're an expert on the niceties of bovine suffering. Try looking up some facts about what you were watching.That's why the picadors do what they do. The whole point is to weaken and disable the bull, ffs!

The foie gras analogy is an irrelevant bit of whataboutery. Does the force-feeding of ducks and geese for food make the torture of a bull OK somehow? Of course not. It just means I'm somewhat hypocritical - as is anyone who eats meat. All of which alters the substance of the argument not one jot. What I do know is that I wouldn't go to watch the gavage for kicks and then dress it up as if it were some sort of high cultural moment.

I have chosen not to go to a bullfight because I know them objectively to involve animal torture and needless killing - indeed, that is their raison d'être. I don't need to watch one to know I don't want to. I am able to read about and watch things and make judgements accordingly. Equally, I've never watched a human being tortured, but I don't have to to know it's wrong.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Um, yeah, but unless you've been to the bull fighting you can't be sure, can you Peter? :-)

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I never got the chance to be present at a lynching but I am fairly confident I wouldn't have enjoyed it.

It's just one of those things that you don't need to try for yourself. Like watching wrestling.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Apparently, one bullfight and you're an expert on the niceties of bovine suffering. Try looking up some facts about what you were watching.That's why the picadors do what they do. The whole point is to weaken and disable the bull, ffs!

The foie gras analogy is an irrelevant bit of whataboutery. Does the force-feeding of ducks and geese for food make the torture of a bull OK somehow? Of course not. It just means I'm somewhat hypocritical - as is anyone who eats meat. All of which alters the substance of the argument not one jot. What I do know is that I wouldn't go to watch the gavage for kicks and then dress it up as if it were some sort of high cultural moment.

I have chosen not to go to a bullfight because I know them objectively to involve animal torture and needless killing - indeed, that is their raison d'être. I don't need to watch one to know I don't want to. I am able to read about and watch things and make judgements accordingly. Equally, I've never watched a human being tortured, but I don't have to to know it's wrong.

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Also, as you pointed out earlier, the result is inevitable and will always be the same. The sport element is merely deigned to deflect from the fact that it is a ritual torture and murder.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I never got the chance to be present at a lynching but I am fairly confident I wouldn't have enjoyed it.

It's just one of those things that you don't need to try for yourself. Like watching wrestling.

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Actually, I went to the wrestling at the Fairfield Halls, Croydon as a kid a few times and it was tremendous fun. Of course, the first few rows were occupied by the severely intellectually challenged, but it was none the worse for that.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I never got the chance to be present at a lynching but I am fairly confident I wouldn't have enjoyed it.

It's just one of those things that you don't need to try for yourself. Like watching wrestling.

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What sort of wrestling are we talking about here P?

Modern day nonsense or old skool nonsense? Giant Haystacks or John Cena? Big Daddy or Big Show?

Both shÃ*te of course but I am a stickler for detail.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Actually, I went to the wrestling at the Fairfield Halls, Croydon as a kid a few times and it was tremendous fun. Of course, the first few rows were occupied by the severely intellectually challenged, but it was none the worse for that.

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Oh I attach no moral judgement here, b. Each to their own and all that.

I mean, I hate strip clubs but I appreciate that other people love them. I just know its not for me.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I never got the chance to be present at a lynching but I am fairly confident I wouldn't have enjoyed it.

It's just one of those things that you don't need to try for yourself. Like watching wrestling.

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Surely that would depend entirely upon *who* was for it?

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Originally Posted by Peter

Also, as you pointed out earlier, the result is inevitable and will always be the same. The sport element is merely deigned to deflect from the fact that it is a ritual torture and murder.

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:nod: At least when the Romans did this stuff the animals had a chance of taking some of the buggers with them. Indeed, the Spanish fighting bull was considered the most dangerous of all the animals in the arena due to its strength, speed and sheer ferocity. This is why the picadors are necessary. In a fair go between some dago ponce in tights and a fit bull, there'd only ever be one winner.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

What sort of wrestling are we talking about here P?

Modern day nonsense or old skool nonsense? Giant Haystacks or John Cena? Big Daddy or Big Show?

Both shÃ*te of course but I am a stickler for detail.

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In both cases it appears to be large men in underpants. I am not sure I would want to spare either form so lets say both.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Surely that would depend entirely upon *who* was for it?

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Yes, one suspects that Peter wouldn't be averse to watching a certain Abbott being strung up :hehe: