Emery out!

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10-01-2019, 09:06 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

So he took us to within 1 point of 4th last season and a European final... i would say that is better than the last 2 seasons under AW

Arsene's gone, p. Arsene's failings are irrelevant. We're discussing Emery's failings.

Do you think our football is acceptable? Put it another way: is this what you want to see from an Arsenal team?
10-01-2019, 09:08 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

Wait, are you playing devil's advocate or are you really suggesting that the way we play is acceptable?

Bit of both..... we have 2, possibly 3 of our first choice defenders not yet playing, I am happy to give him to the end of this season and see where we are.
10-01-2019, 09:09 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

So he took us to within 1 point of 4th last season and a European final... i would say that is better than the last 2 seasons under AW

So...fifth (despite having every opportunity to secure fourth but failing due to shÃ*tness) and we got humiliated in the final of the European equivalent of the League Cup Final by the team that finished 7th.

This isn't quite the stellar record you think it is, p.
10-01-2019, 09:14 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

So...fifth (despite having every opportunity to secure fourth but failing due to shÃ*tness) and we got humiliated in the final of the European equivalent of the League Cup Final by the team that finished 7th.

This isn't quite the stellar record you think it is, p.

So it isn't better than AW had in the last 2 years...and since when did Chelsea finish 7th??? Or is just making things up your way or trying to prove a point???
10-01-2019, 09:21 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

So it isn't better than AW had in the last 2 years...and since when did Chelsea finish 7th??? Or is just making things up your way or trying to prove a point???

Apologies, no. I did get the Chelsea thing wrong. However, we were humiliated by them, won nothing and finished outside the CL places. None of which is a substantive improvement on Wenger's last few seasons, when we did actually win a few FA Cups if you remember.

So yes. The last few seasons under Wenger were substantively better than the era you people have ushered in by clamouring for his departure. Own it.
10-01-2019, 09:28 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Apologies, no. I did get the Chelsea thing wrong. However, we were humiliated by them, won nothing and finished outside the CL places. None of which is a substantive improvement on Wenger's last few seasons, when we did actually win a few FA Cups if you remember.

So yes. The last few seasons under Wenger were substantively better than the era you people have ushered in by clamouring for his departure. Own it.

So our league places were going backwards, we had an ageing team.... we finished higher last season, got to a major final and have got rid of a lot of the deadwood AW seemed to inflict on us. That is why I'm very happy to give him to the end of this season.

We should have our first choice defence available in a week or so, who knows where we will be then.

You wanted him out within a few weeks of him turning up
10-01-2019, 09:38 AM
Ash

Sky showed a comparison of Unai's first 44 games v Arsene's last 44. Quite similar, overall. Emery has a few more points and better record against top six but has conceded more goals. Scored about the same.
10-01-2019, 09:40 AM
Herbert Augustus Chapman

Happy to reserve judgement? You lying old cloggy-mick half breed tosser. You led

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

I was happy to reserve judgment until heâ€™d had a full season to show us his philosophy. I was happy to give him a couple of seasons without worrying overly about results, so long as we could see what he is trying to achieve.

The answer appears to be that he has no philosophy or vision beyond â€˜donâ€™t under any circumstances play a midfield with any creativityâ€™.

In short, it is with some regret that I must join the vulgar hordes on the bandwagon and declare myself and Emeryouter. :-(

I hate him for doing this to me.

the charge for his head the moment of his first mispronunciation.*

*He pronounced struggled last night as stroog-led - We struggled became "we 'ave a stroog led".
10-01-2019, 09:40 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

So our league places were going backwards, we had an ageing team.... we finished higher last season, got to a major final and have got rid of a lot of the deadwood AW seemed to inflict on us. That is why I'm very happy to give him to the end of this season.

We should have our first choice defence available in a week or so, who knows where we will be then.

You wanted him out within a few weeks of him turning up

We appear to have replaced the 'dead wood' with worse players, though. And we look even worse this season than we did last. And our league placing only declined over two years. The season before that we finished 2nd - plus 3 FA Cups in AW's last five seasons.
Face facts: there's no way Emery will ever get us near a record as good as AW could achieve even in his latter years.
10-01-2019, 09:42 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

the charge for his head the moment of his first mispronunciation.*

*He pronounced struggled last night as stroog-led - We struggled became "we 'ave a stroog led".

He really didn't, you know? That was me, I'm happy to say.
10-01-2019, 09:42 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

We appear to have replaced the 'dead wood' with worse players, though. And we look even worse this season than we did last. And our league placing only declined over two years. The season before that we finished 2nd - plus 3 FA Cups in AW's last five seasons.
Face facts: there's no way Emery will ever get us near a record as good as AW could achieve even in his latter years.

And you base that fact on what exactly? Aw's later years was 3 FA cups and a team that was declining in the league. Well UE has beaten the last part within 1 season
10-01-2019, 09:43 AM
Herbert Augustus Chapman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

He really didn't, you know? That was me, I'm happy to say.

Oh I don't feckin know - all you swivel eyed right wing lunatics look the same.
10-01-2019, 09:45 AM
Ash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

the charge for his head the moment of his first mispronunciation.*

*He pronounced struggled last night as stroog-led - We struggled became "we 'ave a stroog led".

Imagine being the sort of dark-hearted, vicious bully who would mock non-natives for stroogling a little bit with the wild inconsistencies of our pronunciation. I'm sure Sir C wouldn't stoop to that. :-(
10-01-2019, 09:48 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

Imagine being the sort of dark-hearted, vicious bully who would mock non-natives for stroogling a little bit with the wild inconsistencies of our pronunciation. I'm sure Sir C wouldn't stoop to that. :-(

Emery's English is far superior to my Spanish, so mocking his linguistic capabilities would be a bit ironic, wouldn't it?
10-01-2019, 09:51 AM
Herbert Augustus Chapman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

Imagine being the sort of dark-hearted, vicious bully who would mock non-natives for stroogling a little bit with the wild inconsistencies of our pronunciation. I'm sure Sir C wouldn't stoop to that. :-(

He would wouldn't pronounce it stroogling a - it would be something like stroog-ah-HAY-leeng. i noticed rather sadly last night that his English is not progressing whatsoever. It means he isn't actually speaking it on a daily basis.

I cannot love him. God knows I have tried but I cannot love him. I wanted Jurgen :cry:
10-01-2019, 09:52 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

And you base that fact on what exactly? Aw's later years was 3 FA cups and a team that was declining in the league. Well UE has beaten the last part within 1 season

I'm basing it on the fact that we're total fÃºcking shÃ*t and are actually by some miracle a worse defensive unit now than we were under AW.

Getting from 6th to 5th means nothing, since anything below 4th is nowhere. Emery hasn't won anything or achieved anything at all, meaning that he remains demonstrably inferior to even latter-day AW.
10-01-2019, 09:53 AM
Herbert Augustus Chapman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

Emery's English is far superior to my Spanish, so mocking his linguistic capabilities would be a bit ironic, wouldn't it?

You don't share his appalling choice of hair products and his aversion to dentistry though c?
10-01-2019, 09:54 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

Emery's English is far superior to my Spanish, so mocking his linguistic capabilities would be a bit ironic, wouldn't it?

You are not pursuing your career in Spain, though. If you were and had been for the last 12-18 months, I'm willing to bet you'd speak better Spanish than he does English.
10-01-2019, 09:55 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

Imagine being the sort of dark-hearted, vicious bully who would mock non-natives for stroogling a little bit with the wild inconsistencies of our pronunciation. I'm sure Sir C wouldn't stoop to that. :-(

Most of Europe manages to speak excellent English, though, a. What went wrong with him?

I can't help it if he's backwards. :shrug:
10-01-2019, 09:57 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

You are not pursuing your career in Spain, though. If you were and had been for the last two 12-18 months, I'm willing to bet you'd speak better Spanish than he does English.

Certainly I would have hoped for some discernible improvement by now... but I'm naturally inclined to shy away from that most appalling of British traits - monoglots mocking polyglots. It just doesn't sit well.
10-01-2019, 09:59 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

You don't share his appalling choice of hair products and his aversion to dentistry though c?

A man's hair choices are a matter for himself, his conscience and his God, h. As for his teeth, the poor chap is Spanish. This is a country where the leading leisure activity is throwing donkeys off high buildings. It is a savage, backwards nation - just how advanced do you think their dentists are?
10-01-2019, 10:00 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Most of Europe manages to speak excellent English, though, a. What went wrong with him?

I can't help it if he's backwards. :shrug:

Have you ever visited France, Spain or Italy? :hehe:
10-01-2019, 10:02 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

I'm basing it on the fact that we're total fÃºcking shÃ*t and are actually by some miracle a worse defensive unit now than we were under AW.

Getting from 6th to 5th means nothing, since anything below 4th is nowhere. Emery hasn't won anything or achieved anything at all, meaning that he remains demonstrably inferior to even latter-day AW.

Using thta great(?) reasoning, you can only compare AW's last season with UE's first season. Higher league finish and the final (v semi final) of the Europa league. Seems like progress to me
10-01-2019, 10:04 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

Using thta great(?) reasoning, you can only compare AW's last season with UE's first season. Higher league finish and the final (v semi final) of the Europa league. Seems like progress to me

This arguing over statistics is all well and good, but have you actually watched us play?

If not, don't bother. It's a depressing shÃ*tshow.
10-01-2019, 10:04 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

Certainly I would have hoped for some discernible improvement by now... but I'm naturally inclined to shy away from that most appalling of British traits - monoglots mocking polyglots. It just doesn't sit well.

:nono: It is every freeborn Englishman's God-given right to mock the way foreigners speak English.

Why you no risten? This chicken is rubbery? Ay know narthing? Velly good, etc. Marvellous comedic stuff imo.

And if they don't like it, they should have won more wars, shouldn't they?
10-01-2019, 10:06 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

Have you ever visited France, Spain or Italy? :hehe:

Obviously southern Europe is a bit backwards in this regard, but that supports my argument if anything.
10-01-2019, 10:07 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

Using thta great(?) reasoning, you can only compare AW's last season with UE's first season. Higher league finish and the final (v semi final) of the Europa league. Seems like progress to me

Really? It doesn't to me. No CL place and no silverware. Yet AW's last season got him sacked and UE's first didn't? Double standard imo.
10-01-2019, 10:08 AM
Sir C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Obviously southern Europe is a bit backwards in this regard, but that supports my argument if anything.

I have recently met a number of Swissers who speak no English at all. One of them a couple in their 40s, she a doctor and him a lawyer. Of English, not a word. This surprises me. Surely a working knowledge of English is going to be useful for hiding jewgold?
10-01-2019, 10:09 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir C

I have recently met a number of Swissers who speak no English at all. One of them a couple in their 40s, she a doctor and him a lawyer. Of English, not a word. This surprises me. Surely a working knowledge of English is going to be useful for hiding jewgold?

Really? Do they dwell in some mountain fastness? Any time I've ever been in Swissland they've always spoken perfect English with a fine note of contempt and condescension.

Awful people imo.
10-01-2019, 10:11 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

Really? It doesn't to me. No CL place and no silverware. Yet AW's last season got him sacked and UE's first didn't? Double standard imo.

No, Aw's last 2 seasons saw him sacked, the general getting worse thing that you don't seem to grasp. UE will not have his contract extended if we don't get top 4 imo, and that will show he has started to turn around what was happening towards then end of AW's reign
10-01-2019, 10:15 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

No, Aw's last 2 seasons saw him sacked, the general getting worse thing that you don't seem to grasp. UE will not have his contract extended if we don't get top 4 imo, and that will show he has started to turn around what was happening towards then end of AW's reign

The last two seasons in which he won an FA Cup, you mean?
10-01-2019, 10:25 AM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

The last two seasons in which he won an FA Cup, you mean?

Yes, and our league placing dropped lower each season..... if UE gets us back into the top 4 he deserves at least 1 more season.
10-01-2019, 10:33 AM
Ash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burney

The last two seasons in which he won an FA Cup, you mean?

How do you rate the FA Cup, btw, and how did you rate it at the time? I'm not suggesting you are one of those who see it as no more than a day out, but I don't recall too many enthusiasms about it overall.

I really liked it, and drank bubbly all summer to celebrate. :-)
10-01-2019, 10:42 AM
Burney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash

How do you rate the FA Cup, btw, and how did you rate it at the time? I'm not suggesting you are one of those who see it as no more than a day out, but I don't recall too many enthusiasms about it overall.

I really liked it, and drank bubbly all summer to celebrate. :-)

Did I care about it? Yes.
Would I have swapped it for fourth place? Maybe.
Did I enjoy beating Chelsea? Absolutely.
Do I regard it as a far more significant achievement than an improvement from 6th to 5th in the League, plus getting stuffed by Chelsea in the EL Final? Absolutely.
10-01-2019, 10:50 AM
Rich

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

No, Aw's last 2 seasons saw him sacked, the general getting worse thing that you don't seem to grasp. UE will not have his contract extended if we don't get top 4 imo, and that will show he has started to turn around what was happening towards then end of AW's reign

Saw Erik ten Hag being linked with us from next season :cloud9:
10-01-2019, 12:47 PM
Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES

He had a clear philosophy when he arrived, we were going to play a high line and press to get the ball back as quickly as possible. And as I recall it resulted in a 20 some game undefeated run, not sure I remember very many people calling for his head then and all of the Unai haters were strangely quiet. You couldn't find AFC East for the life of you back then. :hehe:

I'm guessing that the back four injuries put that to rest and he tried 3 at the back etc etc and it all went a bit wrong after that. He still doesn't have his first choice back four (I would argue he has only one of them) and he's trying to play younger players as the dross he was left by Wenger simply isn't good enough and as a result there are going to be issues with continuity, team selection etc as he tries to get it right.

But the main point is that I don't want to be Chelsea, we should be bigger than a club that chops and changes every time it starts to go wrong. All Arsenal managers deserve 2-3 years at least to prove themselves and then if it doesn't work we move on. I strongly expect that people like AFC East were calling for Wenger's head in 2001 and lambasted him for fielding a team without any English players because it went against the traditions blah, blah, blah.

Ferguson was almost sacked early on at Man Utd, Wenger received no shortage of criticism in 2000/2001 - and as I said, let's remember we improved marginally last year and are currently fourth, ahead of Tottenham and Chelsea.

Bruce Rioch got us back up to 4th. He'd left the back 5/6 alone, and been happy to work with the added creativity that DB10 and Platt brought, while having a top form IWWW, Parlour and Merse.

We were basically a top CM and goal-scoring winger away from a title challenge. But we fÃ¼cked him out the door so we could get AW.

Luiz is a carthorse who has made Papa Sok worse. Torreira would have been fine for AW, esp with Rambo and Ozil, but Dick doesn't like him cos he's too small.

Pepe's taking up a space which, had he not cost a fortune, would be to Saka or Nelson. If Xhaka can't defend, why play him not Ozil?

Ceballos's spot could go to Willock or AMN. What worries me most is that if we had a better manager, he'd get more out of what looks like a great generation of kids.
10-01-2019, 12:50 PM
Pokster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Bruce Rioch got us back up to 4th. He'd left the back 5/6 alone, and been happy to work with the added creativity that DB10 and Platt brought, while having a top form IWWW, Parlour and Merse.

We were basically a top CM and goal-scoring winger away from a title challenge. But we fÃ¼cked him out the door so we could get AW.

Luiz is a carthorse who has made Papa Sok worse. Torreira would have been fine for AW, esp with Rambo and Ozil, but Dick doesn't like him cos he's too small.

Pepe's taking up a space which, had he not cost a fortune, would be to Saka or Nelson. If Xhaka can't defend, why play him not Ozil?

Ceballos's spot could go to Willock or AMN. What worries me most is that if we had a better manager, he'd get more out of what looks like a great generation of kids.

A different manager might not even play the kids.... especially if he thought he would get the sack after 1 season. teh only reason chelsea are playing kids is because they have to and Lampard isn't under any pressure
10-01-2019, 01:25 PM
Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokster

A different manager might not even play the kids.... especially if he thought he would get the sack after 1 season. teh only reason chelsea are playing kids is because they have to and Lampard isn't under any pressure

I'm just saying that Saka, Nelson, Willock, Smith-Rowe and AMN given a chance in MF (now we've HB coming back, Chambers showing he can play there and AMN having learnt the skills to beat a man and make goals out wide after his experience at FB) would learn to play better football under a better coach.

If we'd been playing Torreira at DM with Willock further forward, Willock would have scored that one Torreira put over. He's got a bit of the Rambos/Freddies about him in the way he arrives late into space in the box.

We need MF creativity, but Xhaka can't play defensively, Torreira's not an 8/10, we let Rambo leave and dropped Ozil despite the fact he's no worse defensively than Xhaka, who we've made captain.

Pepe so far doesn't look any better than Saka or Nelson and Willock could be a top level MF. But I'm biased. I just don't like Dick for replacing AW.
10-01-2019, 01:32 PM
WES

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

I'm just saying that Saka, Nelson, Willock, Smith-Rowe and AMN given a chance in MF (now we've HB coming back, Chambers showing he can play there and AMN having learnt the skills to beat a man and make goals out wide after his experience at FB) would learn to play better football under a better coach.

If we'd been playing Torreira at DM with Willock further forward, Willock would have scored that one Torreira put over. He's got a bit of the Rambos/Freddies about him in the way he arrives late into space in the box.

We need MF creativity, but Xhaka can't play defensively, Torreira's not an 8/10, we let Rambo leave and dropped Ozil despite the fact he's no worse defensively than Xhaka, who we've made captain.

Pepe so far doesn't look any better than Saka or Nelson and Willock could be a top level MF. But I'm biased. I just don't like Dick for replacing AW.

Yes, exactly. This is the subtext in virtually every criticism of Unai. And it is not only unfair on Unai it is stupid, sentimental and revisionism of the highest order.

Nothing that has happened since Wenger left indicates that it was the wrong move. Neville was spot on last night; we aren't playing well but at least the players are trying which is more than you could say about the latter years of Wenger's tenure. Watching Ramsey try a stupid flick and then stroll back after giving it away is not something I miss. Nor the 8-2 and 6-0 pastings.

Unai may or may not work out, but either way the club has moved forward.
10-01-2019, 01:57 PM
Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES

Yes, exactly. This is the subtext in virtually every criticism of Unai. And it is not only unfair on Unai it is stupid, sentimental and revisionism of the highest order.

Nothing that has happened since Wenger left indicates that it was the wrong move. Neville was spot on last night; we aren't playing well but at least the players are trying which is more than you could say about the latter years of Wenger's tenure. Watching Ramsey try a stupid flick and then stroll back after giving it away is not something I miss. Nor the 8-2 and 6-0 pastings.

Unai may or may not work out, but either way the club has moved forward.

What about the fact that we're giving away needless goals because we try to play the ball out from the box after goal kicks?

What about the fact that we're not seeing those great team goals finished off with a Rambo backheel or kung-fu lob over the 'keeper?

What about the fact that we don't do the sexy in MF? That the only creativity we have is when Auba and Laca pass to each other?

I don't mind being a EL-level side as long as we score some sexy goals. Auba's on fire, but where's the sexy MF Wengerball?

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