SSN: 'Marouane Fellaini in advanced talks with another premier league club'

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Originally Posted by IUFG

Neither did I, sc.

I did 'enjoy' a Friday night detained at Holborn in the early 90s though.

I was arrested during a night out on suspicion of criminal damage. Locked me up, didn't interview me at all and then let me go without charge at 12.45pm on the Saturday lunchtime.

No explanation, no apology nor any breakfast. *****s.

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Trust me...you wouldn’t have wanted the microwave Poundland breakfast ready meal that they spit in.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It's not exactly the Gestapo, is it? I take it they didn't pull your toenails out with pliers?

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Wow, we do set the bar pretty low don't we.

At least our police don't routinely shoot black people for more or less no reason.

Not routinely....

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Originally Posted by Burney

Did this by any chance involve the large-scale public consumption of Class A drugs? It did, didn't it?

There's your problem, y'see? Taking the p1ss.

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You massive hypocrite :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It's not exactly the Gestapo, is it? I take it they didn't pull your toenails out with pliers?

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I was rather roughly manhandled including a short stint of strangling and then pushed into the pack of a van with, shall we say, disproportionate force considering I wasn't resisting. Not bad considering I hadn't actually done anything to break the law.

It was the lack of a full English that really stepped over the mark tbh

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Originally Posted by Peter

Its the collective we of people who dont think it is ok for the police to attack and assault innocent people and then commit perjury and falsification of evidence to try and convict them. Or for them to make a fatal mistake that led directly to the death of 96 people and then lie about it for twenty five years including smearing the innocent and breathalysing children.

I wouldn't call it royal but I would like to think there are a few of us.

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Meh. You see evrything through the prism of your self-congratulatory, sanctimonious moral certainties, made concrete by cultural Marxism. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Peter

Its the collective we of people who dont think it is ok for the police to attack and assault innocent people and then commit perjury and falsification of evidence to try and convict them. Or for them to make a fatal mistake that led directly to the death of 96 people and then lie about it for twenty five years including smearing the innocent and breathalysing children.

I wouldn't call it royal but I would like to think there are a few of us.

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Yeah. I'm increasingly convinced that that is absolutely OK because - and this is crucial - it has proved vastly preferable to the alternative of a police force more terrified of being called racist or corrupt than actually protecting the vast majority of law-abiding people and maintaining public safety.

People should be scared of the police, p. They should be terrified enough to know that, if they push their luck, they may well end up at the bottom of a stairwell with several of their limbs (and possibly their head) pointing the wrong way. Under the system people like you have created, the police are now a joke and the public feel unsafe - with considerable justification in many cases.

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Originally Posted by Peter

You massive hypocrite :hehe:

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Hypocrisy is simply the name that sanctimony gives to realism, p. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Hypocrisy is simply the name that sanctimony gives to realism, p. :shrug:

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Intellectual flexibility is the current term, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yeah. I'm increasingly convinced that that is absolutely OK because - and this is crucial - it has proved vastly preferable to the alternative of a police force more terrified of being called racist or corrupt than actually protecting the vast majority of law-abiding people and maintaining public safety.

People should be scared of the police, p. They should be terrified enough to know that, if they push their luck, they may well end up at the bottom of a stairwell with several of their limbs (and possibly their head) pointing the wrong way. Under the system people like you have created, the police are now a joke and the public feel unsafe - with considerable justification in many cases.

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Guilty people should be scared of the police.

THere is a difference between getting a cuff round the back of the head and being sent on your way and killing 96 people at a football match and lying about it for 25 years. One is old school, the other is a government-level cover up and perversion of the course of justice that ademocratic society should not tolerate, even for a moment.

If only we lived in a democratic society.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Meh. You see evrything through the prism of your self-congratulatory, sanctimonious moral certainties, made concrete by cultural Marxism. :shrug:

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I am not sure that the correct and proper use of the justice system can necessarily be referred to as cultural marxism.....

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Originally Posted by Peter

Guilty people should be scared of the police.

THere is a difference between getting a cuff round the back of the head and being sent on your way and killing 96 people at a football match and lying about it for 25 years. One is old school, the other is a government-level cover up and perversion of the course of justice that ademocratic society should not tolerate, even for a moment.

If only we lived in a democratic society.

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They are part and parcel of the same thing. Coppers close ranks and protect themselves and traditionally society has allowed them to do so because it used to be nuanced enough to appreciate that theirs is a job that necessarily involves some flexibility with regard to their tacit permission to act outside the law.

Now we have a squeaky clean police force that is irreproachable in its attitudes to multiculturalism, sexuality, gender, etc, etc, but which happens to be fvcking useless at doing its job.

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Originally Posted by Burney

They are part and parcel of the same thing. Coppers close ranks and protect themselves and traditionally society has allowed them to do so because it used to be nuanced enough to appreciate that theirs is a job that necessarily involves some flexibility with regard to their tacit permission to act outside the law.

Now we have a squeaky clean police force that is irreproachable in its attitudes to multiculturalism, sexuality, gender, etc, etc, but which happens to be fvcking useless at doing its job.

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Tacit permission to act outside the law? Again, putting a shotgun in the boot of a known criminal's car is not the same as a government-level 25 year conspiracy around 96 deaths. If they are part and parcel of the same thing then neither is acceptable.

I have been unfortunate enough to have several recent experiences with our local police force and trust me, they do their job well enough. Admittedly that job involves responding every time my neighbours claim they have been racially abused and losing interest when it is proven to them that the allegation is entirely false and could not possibly have happened. :(

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Originally Posted by Peter

I am not sure that the correct and proper use of the justice system can necessarily be referred to as cultural marxism.....

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What do you think of this term 'cultural marxism', Peter? To me the thing it refers to is nothing to do with marxism. It's surely what happened when the left abandoned marxism and the working class. Cultural leftism might be a better phrase imo.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Tacit permission to act outside the law? Again, putting a shotgun in the boot of a known criminal's car is not the same as a government-level 25 year conspiracy around 96 deaths. If they are part and parcel of the same thing then neither is acceptable.

I have been unfortunate enough to have several recent experiences with our local police force and trust me, they do their job well enough. Admittedly that job involves responding every time my neighbours claim they have been racially abused and losing interest when it is proven to them that the allegation is entirely false and could not possibly have happened. :(

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What tangible benefit arose from the Hillsborough Inquiry, p? I know a bunch of scousers got to feel vindicated and self-righteous (so what's new?) and will now probably get a load of compo from the taxpayer (which is what they were really after all along). Also, a few politicians got to grandstand about it and improve their public profile (I'm looking at you, Burnham). But what actual good was done? None. Nobody came back from the dead. No lives will be saved in future as a consequence - that was achieved by the Taylor Report more than 20 years ago.

All that happened is that somebody was found to blame. So what? What was the point of that? Is anyone better off for knowing that a copper made a tragic, understandable mistake and that he was - as far as possible - protected from the consequences of that mistake for a couple of decades. If the truth be known, I don't really have a problem with that. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Ash

What do you think of this term 'cultural marxism', Peter? To me the thing it refers to is nothing to do with marxism. It's surely what happened when the left abandoned marxism and the working class. Cultural leftism might be a better phrase imo.

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I think it is meaningless twaddle, used by the likes of Sir C to voice his horror at having to pay tax and be nice to foreigners.

In Britain the left arguably abandoned marxism and the working class a century ago (if by the left we mean the Labour Party).

I care little for the identity of the left, or their ideas. In many respects I actively dislike them- certainly many of the ones I have met. My political interest has always focused on the rights of the working class, or what we now refer to as 'ordinary people' or 'hard working families'.......

I dont think the term marxism has ever really belonged in British politics or the british political identity.

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Originally Posted by Burney

What tangible benefit arose from the Hillsborough Inquiry, p? I know a bunch of scousers got to feel vindicated and self-righteous (so what's new?) and will now probably get a load of compo from the taxpayer (which is what they were really after all along). Also, a few politicians got to grandstand about it and improve their public profile (I'm looking at you, Burnham). But what actual good was done? None. Nobody came back from the dead. No lives will be saved in future as a consequence - that was achieved by the Taylor Report more than 20 years ago.

All that happened is that somebody was found to blame. So what? What was the point of that? Is anyone better off for knowing that a copper made a tragic, understandable mistake and that he was - as far as possible - protected from the consequences of that mistake for a couple of decades. If the truth be known, I don't really have a problem with that. :shrug:

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We learned our government lied to us all for 25 years, took part in a nationwide conspiracy, perverted the course of justice and sought to lay the blame for the deaths of 96 football fans on their fellow supporters, vilifying an entire city and its people.

The same police force who perverted the course of justice and committed countless instances of perjury 5 years earlier in attempting to convict the miners they had violently assaulted of rioting. Still no enquiry.......

THe tangible benefit being that it proves, once and for all, that Thatcherism carried with it a heavy price- justice, fairness, the reputation of our police force and the lives of 96 football fans.

What a ****ing **** she was...... and now we all know.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I think it is meaningless twaddle, used by the likes of Sir C to voice his horror at having to pay tax and be nice to foreigners.

In Britain the left arguably abandoned marxism and the working class a century ago (if by the left we mean the Labour Party).

I care little for the identity of the left, or their ideas. In many respects I actively dislike them- certainly many of the ones I have met. My political interest has always focused on the rights of the working class, or what we now refer to as 'ordinary people' or 'hard working families'.......

I dont think the term marxism has ever really belonged in British politics or the british political identity.

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Whatever name we give it, as a phenomenon it undeniably exists. The post-1968 defeat of Marxists in the direct political sphere caused them to migrate to the spheres of cultural influence (the arts, media, academia, education, etc) from which they could manipulate public thought and discourse. The result is the fvcking mess we have today.

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Originally Posted by Peter

We learned our government lied to us all for 25 years, took part in a nationwide conspiracy, perverted the course of justice and sought to lay the blame for the deaths of 96 football fans on their fellow supporters, vilifying an entire city and its people.

The same police force who perverted the course of justice and committed countless instances of perjury 5 years earlier in attempting to convict the miners they had violently assaulted of rioting. Still no enquiry.......

THe tangible benefit being that it proves, once and for all, that Thatcherism carried with it a heavy price- justice, fairness, the reputation of our police force and the lives of 96 football fans.

What a ****ing **** she was...... and now we all know.

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:hehe: I hope you warmed up before going for a stretch that big, p.

Governments lie to us. We don't need inquiries to tell us that.

Everyone hated scousers before Hillsborough (especially their football fans - who are and were scum) and they hate them just as much now - nothing's changed.

Lots of people still feel that Thatcher is our greatest post-war PM. So your idea of a tangible benefit seems a bit intangible to me.

Still, the lawyers did well out of it.

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Originally Posted by Burney

:hehe: I hope you warmed up before going for a stretch that big, p.

Governments lie to us. We don't need inquiries to tell us that.

Everyone hated scousers before Hillsborough (especially their football fans - who are and were scum) and they hate them just as much now - nothing's changed.

Lots of people still feel that Thatcher is our greatest post-war PM. So your idea of a tangible benefit seems a bit intangible to me.

Still, the lawyers did well out of it.

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I am not saying everyone will see it. But there it is, out in the open if you fancy having a look.

Your world is a depressing one, b. The police break the law, governments lie, scousers have to die and murderers are revered.

Funny though.....most of the people who suggest these things happen all the time are written off as lunatics when really you just seem to think they are daft to be getting upset about it.

I aspire to something better. Mainly because I am naive and immature.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I am not saying everyone will see it. But there it is, out in the open if you fancy having a look.

Your world is a depressing one, b. The police break the law, governments lie, scousers have to die and murderers are revered.

Funny though.....most of the people who suggest these things happen all the time are written off as lunatics when really you just seem to think they are daft to be getting upset about it.

I aspire to something better. Mainly because I am naive and immature.

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When one is young one thinks that everything is made better by telling the truth and getting everything out in the open. As one matures, however, one realises that that is utter b0llocks and that the sort of people who advocate such behaviour are usually doing so out of self-interest or sheer vindictiveness.

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Originally Posted by Burney

When one is young one thinks that everything is made better by telling the truth and getting everything out in the open. As one matures, however, one realises that that is utter b0llocks and that the sort of people who advocate such behaviour are usually doing so out of self-interest or sheer vindictiveness.

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THis is a far less dramatic rendition of the 'you cant handle the truth' scene.......

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Originally Posted by Peter

THis is a far less dramatic rendition of the 'you cant handle the truth' scene.......

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Yes. Which everyone remembers from that otherwise dreary film because it was well-written and sounded a note of adult realism amongst all the adolescent posturing about uncovering the truth.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. Which everyone remembers from that otherwise dreary film because it was well-written and sounded a note of adult realism amongst all the adolescent posturing about uncovering the truth.

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THat film isnt about the truth, b. Its about following orders.

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Originally Posted by Peter

THat film isnt about the truth, b. Its about following orders.

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The Nazis really gave following orders a bad name, didn't they? Silly really, since society is a machine that only functions if people follow orders (explicit or implicit). We just don't like to admit it.

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Originally Posted by Burney

The Nazis really gave following orders a bad name, didn't they? Silly really, since society is a machine that only functions if people follow orders (explicit or implicit). We just don't like to admit it.

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I think if you join the military you have to accept that. The film is about officers giving orders and then denying they gave them when someone died.

Its basically about hillsborough :)