Arsene virtually in tears in the interview when asked if he was sad that he wouldn't

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Originally Posted by Rich

'Althletico Madrid... Known as The Mattress Makers around these parts, for obvious reasons'

What?!?!?!

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I didn’t hear that to be honest and that sort of time filling nonsense doesn’t really bother me.

These pundit people are ex-professionals and whether we like to admit it or not have a depth of knowledge about the game, and playing the game, that we simply don’t. Sometimes you want them to express this.

I don’t mind Keown so much. He was an angry, aggressive defender and his punditry style mirrors that. He can be negative but then a lot of our performances and results are hardly those to shout from the rooftops about.

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Originally Posted by 71 Guns - channeling the spirit of Mr Hat

If only Thierry could shoot eh :-( :cry:

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Another one that used to get accused of going missing in 'big games' iirc : ozil:

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Originally Posted by Rich

Which clubs have the others managed, though? Wenger ran a team on a shoestring budget compared to most CL winners (bearing in mind he's only really had 2 shots at the EL).

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a manager on £8.5m a year runs team on a shoestring?

Squillachi et al on £50k per week?

Some fúcking shoestring...

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Originally Posted by PSRB

This was probably the best defence we'll ever come up against and if there's no movement, which there wasn't, then there's no ball to play

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nail and head, psrb

There was one occasion last night when Ozil was on the ball and just about everyone on the pitch was stationary for 3 or 4 seconds.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I have - a great many times - seen extremely talented players play a ball that takes defenders out of the game even when there appears to be nothing on. It's a special genius that players like Dennis had. Those players change games and deserve 350k a week.

Ozil has that ability, I think.

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Of course, if there was nothing on, Dennis could just pot the ball into the top corner himself. And everyone knew it. That's the difference.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Of course, if there was nothing on, Dennis could just pot the ball into the top corner himself. And everyone knew it. That's the difference.

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DB10 was the best player I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

DB10 was the best player I've ever seen.

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Best Arsenal player or best player?

He also possessed a win at all costs mentality and that’s something lacking throughout our entire squad. The talent is there but we play as 11 individuals. I’d even accept a different managerial approach could turn around our current back four. It’s a great opportunity for whoever comes in. We only need some fine tuning and we also appear to have a rich seam of young talent coming through..

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Originally Posted by 7sisters

He also possessed a win at all costs mentality and that’s something lacking throughout our entire squad. The talent is there but we play as 11 individuals. I’d even accept a different managerial approach could turn around our current back four. It’s a great opportunity for whoever comes in. We only need some fine tuning and we also appear to have a rich seam of young talent coming through..

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Totally different group of players playing in a totally different era of football.

Each of them, or most of them, superbly gifted but equally as hard as fúck. Would kick your bollócks in to win a game of football. The generic term you often read bandied about is “real men”. Players who the opposition would see in the tunnel and the job was half done.

Now compare that to the current bunch. Gifted for sure but there is a continued group weakness, week after week and season after season.

You could probably argue that not one current player would make the teams of the Bergkamp era, not one would certainly make a Wenger best 11 and that includes the sometimes mercurial German.

I was watching that game at OT last weekend and was thinking about how shÃ*t, how benign and how generally meaningless it was compared to the days when it was the biggest match of the entire football season. In one thought it encapsulated the group of *****s we currently employ.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

Best Arsenal player or best player?

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Arsenal and live

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Originally Posted by SWv2

Totally different group of players playing in a totally different era of football.

Each of them, or most of them, superbly gifted but equally as hard as fúck. Would kick your bollócks in to win a game of football. The generic term you often read bandied about is “real men�. Players who the opposition would see in the tunnel and the job was half done.

Now compare that to the current bunch. Gifted for sure but there is a continued group weakness, week after week and season after season.

You could probably argue that not one current player would make the teams of the Bergkamp era, not one would certainly make a Wenger best 11 and that includes the sometimes mercurial German.

I was watching that game at OT last weekend and was thinking about how shÃ*t, how benign and how generally meaningless it was compared to the days when it was the biggest match of the entire football season. In one thought it encapsulated the group of *****s we currently employ.

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Change is afoot, SW. I think Minsilant and Sanhelli are born winners and I, for one, welcome the fact that they are being given a significant amount of influence at the club.

While I'd hate to see us win the Athletico way (ugly and bordering on illegal), I would be happy with a more gritty approach. This is the main reason that I would like to see Allegri come in. He doesn't appear to be a man that suffers fools gladly & I think some members of the squad would be in for quite a shock were he to be appointed.

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Originally Posted by Rich

Change is afoot, SW. I think Minsilant and Sanhelli are born winners and I, for one, welcome the fact that they are being given a significant amount of influence at the club.

While I'd hate to see us win the Athletico way (ugly and bordering on illegal), I would be happy with a more gritty approach. This is the main reason that I would like to see Allegri come in. He doesn't appear to be a man that suffers fools gladly & I think some members of the squad would be in for quite a shock were he to be appointed.

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Shut up you arséhole.

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Originally Posted by 7sisters

He also possessed a win at all costs mentality and that’s something lacking throughout our entire squad. The talent is there but we play as 11 individuals. I’d even accept a different managerial approach could turn around our current back four. It’s a great opportunity for whoever comes in. We only need some fine tuning and we also appear to have a rich seam of young talent coming through..

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Dennis? Win at all costs? You must remember a very different Dennis Bergkamp to me.

The Dennis I remember went missing with frustrating regularity for someone of his ability.

A great player, but let's not pretend he was something he wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Dennis? Win at all costs? You must remember a very different Dennis Bergkamp to me.

The Dennis I remember went missing with frustrating regularity for someone of his ability.

A great player, but let's not pretend he was something he wasn't.

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I think he meant win at all costs unless it involved an airport.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

Shut up you arséhole.

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How often do you see them playing free-flowing, attacking football? How often do you see them using good 'game management' (petit fouls, time wasting etc). While they are second in the league, they have scored just 55 goals (around 30 fewer than the bigger teams and the least in the top 5).

I cannot speak for you, however, I can safely say that this is not the sort of football I wish to see from The Arsenal.

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Originally Posted by Rich

How often do you see them playing free-flowing, attacking football? How often do you see them using good 'game management' (petit fouls, time wasting etc). While they are second in the league, they have scored just 55 goals (around 30 fewer than the bigger teams and the least in the top 5).

I cannot speak for you, however, I can safely say that this is not the sort of football I wish to see from The Arsenal.

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I'd like to see the defensive side at Arsenal but considering the strikers they have, a bit more flair wouldn't go amiss

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Originally Posted by SWv2

I think he meant win at all costs unless it involved an airport.

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...or a penalty against Manchester United.

#neverforgetneverforgive

:furious:

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Originally Posted by Burney

...or a penalty against Manchester United.

#neverforgetneverforgive

:furious:

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:nod: He bloody telegraphed where he was going to put it

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Originally Posted by Burney

Dennis? Win at all costs? You must remember a very different Dennis Bergkamp to me.

The Dennis I remember went missing with frustrating regularity for someone of his ability.

A great player, but let's not pretend he was something he wasn't.

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I agree with you 100%, I always felt there was loads more he could have achieved with us

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Originally Posted by Rich

How often do you see them playing free-flowing, attacking football? How often do you see them using good 'game management' (petit fouls, time wasting etc). While they are second in the league, they have scored just 55 goals (around 30 fewer than the bigger teams and the least in the top 5).

I cannot speak for you, however, I can safely say that this is not the sort of football I wish to see from The Arsenal.

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We have only scored 12 more than that and a lot of them have come in the last 4 or 5 home matches

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Originally Posted by PSRB

I'd like to see the defensive side at Arsenal but considering the strikers they have, a bit more flair wouldn't go amiss

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Yet they clearly and by some distance had the two best attacking performances on the pitch last night.

Flair? Can be over-rated you know. Professional football is about winning.

The lad Griezemann even fitted in a rabona last night.

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Originally Posted by Pokster

I agree with you 100%, I always felt there was loads more he could have achieved with us

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Well as Sir C points out, the mere fact that a player of his ability was happy to play for a team like Arsenal when he should have been playing for one of the European giants was evidence that he was not especially ambitious or driven.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

Yet they clearly and by some distance had the two best attacking performances on the pitch last night.

Flair? Can be over-rated you know. Professional football is about winning.

The lad Griezemann even fitted in a rabona last night.

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You are missing the point. They were always going to play on the counter attack. If Arsenal had been afforded that much space then I'm sure Ozil, Ramsey and Mikihtaryan could have been a lot more influential.

If Arsenal had put 9 behind the ball then I imagine you'd have seen less of a 'great' performance from their two strikers.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well as Sir C points out, the mere fact that a player of his ability was happy to play for a team like Arsenal when he should have been playing for one of the European giants was evidence that he was not especially ambitious or driven.

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Token: He was driven everywhere

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Originally Posted by Rich

You are missing the point. They were always going to play on the counter attack. If Arsenal had been afforded that much space then I'm sure Ozil, Ramsey and Mikihtaryan could have been a lot more influential.

If Arsenal had put 9 behind the ball then I imagine you'd have seen less of a 'great' performance from their two strikers.

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I am not sure I would be so limited as to simply describe their performance last night as being based on counter attacks.

Sure they had a few late in the game as we pushed on for the goal we needed and invariably left space and perhaps lesser numbers at the back, a natural part of any game of football of course where one team is pushing on.

Rest of the time I thought they played a very controlled game. Their defenders defended, their midfield covered their defence and when needed passed the ball around and their forwards provided an outlet. All very commendable really.

If you are confident in your ability to defend and bide your time in full knowledge that at some point the opposition will make a mistake in defence then that is fine.

You simply don’t really understand the game and make a naïve straight line connection between ball possession and quality, or superiority or whatever.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

I am not sure I would be so limited as to simply describe their performance last night as being based on counter attacks.

Sure they had a few late in the game as we pushed on for the goal we needed and invariably left space and perhaps lesser numbers at the back, a natural part of any game of football of course where one team is pushing on.

Rest of the time I thought they played a very controlled game. Their defenders defended, their midfield covered their defence and when needed passed the ball around and their forwards provided an outlet. All very commendable really.

If you are confident in your ability to defend and bide your time in full knowledge that at some point the opposition will make a mistake in defence then that is fine.

You simply don’t really understand the game and make a naïve straight line connection between ball possession and quality, or superiority or whatever.

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On the contrary, I think that Simeone's tactics are to apply attacking pressure in waves. I.e. become reserved for a period, inviting pressure on, safe in the knowledge that their organisation is so good that it very difficult for their opponents to attack. Then, at various intervals (whether these are pre-defined, decided by the natural ebb & flow of the game, decided by the captain etc) the defence, midfield and attack will move 20-30 yards further up the pitch. This seemed to disrupt Arsenal's attacking intent and I'm sure provided some respite from the mentally draining task of defending a constant territorial disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Rich

On the contrary, I think that Simeone's tactics are to apply attacking pressure in waves. I.e. become reserved for a period, inviting pressure on, safe in the knowledge that their organisation is so good that it very difficult for their opponents to attack. Then, at various intervals (whether these are pre-defined, decided by the natural ebb & flow of the game, decided by the captain etc) the defence, midfield and attack will move 20-30 yards further up the pitch. This seemed to disrupt Arsenal's attacking intent and I'm sure provided some respite from the mentally draining task of defending a constant territorial disadvantage.

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... and then they undid us with a pub league, long ball. Again.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well as Sir C points out, the mere fact that a player of his ability was happy to play for a team like Arsenal when he should have been playing for one of the European giants was evidence that he was not especially ambitious or driven.

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Does the same go for Wenger too?

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well as Sir C points out, the mere fact that a player of his ability was happy to play for a team like Arsenal when he should have been playing for one of the European giants was evidence that he was not especially ambitious or driven.

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Routinely quiet in big games, I think his lack of pace was often a reason.

And as Peter has pointed out to us many times, he was really only 'a poor man's Teddy Sheringham'. :-)