You can always tell armed conflict's in the offing when you see economic illiterate

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

I think we've pretty much decided it's not really our business anymore; these foreign military engagements are a tougher sell nowadays and the Donald was elected, in part, to do an awful lot less of it.

I reckon we let the locals handle things. For example, today's Saudi military man is completely unrecognisable from the spoiled, lazy, feckless bunch I dealt with in Desert Storm. They're ready.

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A number of their top politicos graduated from Cranwell, apparently.

I must say I'm surprised that they were awarded wings. These people aren't gentlemen, are they?

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Originally Posted by Burney

tweets/Facebook posts from people saying how much missiles cost and how many homelesses could be put up or nurses or teachers employed with that money, etc, etc.

The fact that those missiles are in many cases designed and built in the UK by companies employing thousands and paying untold millions in UK tax revenues that then get spent on homelesses, nurses, teachers, etc, etc is of course a bit too complicated for their tiny fvcking brains.

It really is amazing how many people still appear to think that capital expenditure at a macro level is a zero sum game.

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Quite, my inheritance is intrinsically linked to BAE share price.......

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Originally Posted by Burney

So you're suggesting we ought to not bother, slash defence spending and outsource our defence to the US as if we were Portugal or Ireland, p? This seems an interesting strategy in terms of our international standing, I must say.

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No. As you know, I think we should tax people like you up the arse and spend a ****ing fortune on everything but people like you won't vote for that.... so we have to make choices from a limited pot.

I am just pointing out that there are choices while you seem to think we can spend what we fancy on whatever we want.

Our international standing :hehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by PSRB

Quite, my inheritance is intrinsically linked to BAE share price.......

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And mine to property prices inLondon. THank god for Russian oligarchs :)

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Originally Posted by Sir C

A number of their top politicos graduated from Cranwell, apparently.

I must say I'm surprised that they were awarded wings. These people aren't gentlemen, are they?

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I wouldn't be surprised. We simply don't make our own like we used to. They is practically all pooves nowadays, as the man said.

One young redgunamo, some sort of nephew, will probably end up at Sandhurst; he'll be the seventh such (I was the third) and he's definitely not the sort :-\

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

I think we've pretty much decided it's not really our business anymore; these foreign military engagements are a tougher sell nowadays and the Donald was elected, in part, to do an awful lot less of it.

I reckon we let the locals handle things. For example, today's Saudi military man is completely unrecognisable from the spoiled, lazy, feckless bunch I dealt with in Desert Storm. They're ready.

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The Don seems quite keen to get stuck in, though. Surely we can provide some air to air refueling as a token gesture?

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Originally Posted by Rich

The Don seems quite keen to get stuck in, though. Surely we can provide some air to air refueling as a token gesture?

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That's just banter; he's trolling. We will certainly play an advisory and supporting role though. And not just as a token either.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

That's just banter; he's trolling. We will certainly play an advisory and supporting role though. And not just as a token either.

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What's redgunamo's prediction, then? No Tomahawks, no fighter jets, no submarines? :-(

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

That's just banter; he's trolling. We will certainly play an advisory and supporting role though. And not just as a token either.

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I saw a video on youtube of a US Marine attempting a Royal Marine's fitness test. He failed it in the most embarrassing fashion, and looked horrified as he did so. :clap:

Useless septics.

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Originally Posted by Rich

What's redgunamo's prediction, then? No Tomahawks, no fighter jets, no submarines? :-(

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Well, we're clearly the decisive power so we'll act decisively at the right moments. In fact, I'd have to check but I reckon we've been doing that already for some time.

One thing about so called "Mad Dog" Mattis; he does not throw his men's lives away cheaply. As I said the other week, keep an eye on these lads:

http://media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove...d=694940094001

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Well, we're clearly the decisive power so we'll act decisively at the right moments. In fact, I'd have to check but I reckon we've been doing that already for some time.

One thing about so called "Mad Dog" Mattis; he does not throw his men's lives away cheaply. As I said the other week, keep an eye on these lads:

http://media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove...d=694940094001

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Who are they? Pirates?

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Originally Posted by Rich

Who are they? Pirates?

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:hehe: Of a sort, yes.

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?...ghlight=carter

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Originally Posted by Burney

I would certainly say she's limp of wrist if she went through the idiotic business of asking for Parliament's consent. A sitting Prime Minister does not require Parliament's say-so for taking military action. It's a dangerous precedent that's been set in recent years and it needs to stop.

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It seems the Donald may have caught Mrs May with her knickers down :-\ #FusionGPS

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

I think we've pretty much decided it's not really our business anymore; these foreign military engagements are a tougher sell nowadays and the Donald was elected, in part, to do an awful lot less of it.

I reckon we let the locals handle things. For example, today's Saudi military man is completely unrecognisable from the spoiled, lazy, feckless bunch I dealt with in Desert Storm. They're ready.

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I agree :nod:

Even this latest Assad atrocity I find it difficult to get worked up about. Is killing innocent people with chemical weapons *really* that different than with bombs?

Not to mention that some of the people taking the moral high ground on this spent years dropping napalm on people who wanted to reunify their country.

I don't see a compelling reason for launching into Assad at this point if I'm honest.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I agree :nod:

Even this latest Assad atrocity I find it difficult to get worked up about. Is killing innocent people with chemical weapons *really* that different than with bombs?

Not to mention that some of the people taking the moral high ground on this spent years dropping napalm on people who wanted to reunify their country.

I don't see a compelling reason for launching into Assad at this point if I'm honest.

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If you mean Vietnam, that is a quite extraordinary interpretation of the Soviet-backed communist invasion of a sovereign state. Presumably you regard the Korean War in the same way?

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Originally Posted by Burney

If you mean Vietnam, that is a quite extraordinary interpretation of the Soviet-backed communist invasion of a sovereign state. Presumably you regard the Korean War in the same way?

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Yes, the average inhabitant of Saigon would be fascinated in hearing WES's view of this matter; and they'd do it STILL refusing to call their city Ho Chi Minh...

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Yes, the average inhabitant of Saigon would be fascinated in hearing WES's view of this matter; and they'd do it STILL refusing to call their city Ho Chi Minh...

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Nonsense. They were all yearning for liberation by the North Vietnamese Army. That's why 2 million of them left the place by any means they could (including risking death on entirely unseaworthy vessels) following the 'liberation'.

I have one main concern about this potential conflict which I would like to raise.

It is not in any way going to impact on this summer's World Cup now is it??

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Originally Posted by Burney

If you mean Vietnam, that is a quite extraordinary interpretation of the Soviet-backed communist invasion of a sovereign state. Presumably you regard the Korean War in the same way?

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'Soviet-backed communist invasion' - well, that's how the Americans saw it. The North Vietnamese and their supporters in South Vietnam rather differed. And the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese.

There's a reason the Americans lost, Burney, and it has nothing to do with their military strategy.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

I have one main concern about this potential conflict which I would like to raise.

It is not in any way going to impact on this summer's World Cup now is it??

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By June or July it's all going to be over one way or another, sw.

I suspect that here on the mainland a few survivors will be living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. No doubt you lot will still be swarming across the 'Irish' sea to ponce off our welfare system and dig our canals, but whatever, none of us are going to be watching football.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

'Soviet-backed communist invasion' - well, that's how the Americans saw it. The North Vietnamese and their supporters in South Vietnam rather differed. And the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese.

There's a reason the Americans lost, Burney, and it has nothing to do with their military strategy.

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LOL! The majority of the Vietnamese people just wanted to be left the fvck alone and for people from both sides to stop killing them.

The idea that the VC were a popular local guerilla army is a myth. These people used to have to brutalise, murder and intimidate in order to get the help of the local population. That is not 'support' in any sense.

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Originally Posted by SWv2

I have one main concern about this potential conflict which I would like to raise.

It is not in any way going to impact on this summer's World Cup now is it??

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I hope so. And it would serve FIFA right if it did for giving the thing to Russia in the first place.

Mind you, it would be a bit awks if the Donald launched missile strikes just before kick off tonight. :-(

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Originally Posted by Burney

LOL! The majority of the Vietnamese people just wanted to be left the fvck alone and for people from both sides to stop killing them.

The idea that the VC were a popular local guerilla army is a myth. These people used to have to brutalise, murder and intimidate in order to get the help of the local population. That is not 'support' in any sense.

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Nothing you have said there is inconsistent with my post. But you seem to have missed the most important part, so I will highlight it for you again:

the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese

There was virtually no support for Diem, and therefore for the Americans, amongst the peasantry while the idea of a reunified Vietnam free from foreign influence carried some weight. The VC were no angels, but they were also not an utterly corrupt set of elitists backed by a foreign power.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Nothing you have said there is inconsistent with my post. But you seem to have missed the most important part, so I will highlight it for you again:

the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people were either pro-VC or if forced to choose between the Americans and their puppet government (which is exactly what Diem was) would have chosen the VC simply because they were Vietnamese

There was virtually no support for Diem, and therefore for the Americans, amongst the peasantry while the idea of a reunified Vietnam free from foreign influence carried some weight. The VC were no angels, but they were also not an utterly corrupt set of elitists backed by a foreign power.

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Nah, not really.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Nah, not really.

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Yeah, really. And the fact that you had a really nice banh mi in Saigon doesn't change that fact. :-)

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Yeah, really. And the fact that you had a really nice banh mi in Saigon doesn't change that fact. :-)

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That's right. Also, the conversations I have had with Vietnamese people over the course of multiple visits to Vietnam are entirely meaningless. Yes. Even the ones with guys who fought with ARVN and were subsequently despatched to re-education camps.

All meaningless because you saw a documentary on Sky and remembered 12% of the information. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by world's end stella

nothing you have said there is inconsistent with my post. But you seem to have missed the most important part, so i will highlight it for you again:

there was virtually no support for diem, and therefore for the americans, amongst the peasantry while the idea of a reunified vietnam free from foreign influence carried some weight. The vc were no angels, but they were also not an utterly corrupt set of elitists backed by a foreign power.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Yup. You wouldn't catch North Vietnam being backed by any foreign powers. And as for the idea of them not being corrupt, you have to be fvcking kidding.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

That's right. Also, the conversations I have had with Vietnamese people over the course of multiple visits to Vietnam are entirely meaningless. Yes. Even the ones with guys who fought with ARVN and were subsequently despatched to re-education camps.

All meaningless because you saw a documentary on Sky and remembered 12% of the information. :thumbup:

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And all those conversations held by Vietnam historians like Stanley Karnow, Neil Sheehan, David Halberstam etc etc and all that research they did that led to an endless number of books which I and a great many other people have read can all be ignored, despite them pretty much all concluding the same thing, because you and V went to Vietnam, stayed at a few expensive hotels, drank cocktails and ate a banh mi.

Sure. :-)

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Originally Posted by Burney

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Yup. You wouldn't catch North Vietnam being backed by any foreign powers. And as for the idea of them not being corrupt, you have to be fvcking kidding.

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:sigh: North Vietnam fought their own battles, Burney. I'm really not bothered where their arms came from. And you have - yet again - ignored the fundamental point.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

And all those conversations held by Vietnam historians like Stanley Karnow, Neil Sheehan, David Halberstam etc etc and all that research they did that led to an endless number of books which I and a great many other people have read can all be ignored, despite them pretty much all concluding the same thing, because you and V went to Vietnam, stayed at a few expensive hotels, drank cocktails and ate a banh mi.

Sure. :-)

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You weren't there, man. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

You weren't there, man. :shrug:

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Neither were you. Not when it mattered.

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Originally Posted by Burney

tweets/Facebook posts from people saying how much missiles cost and how many homelesses could be put up or nurses or teachers employed with that money, etc, etc.

The fact that those missiles are in many cases designed and built in the UK by companies employing thousands and paying untold millions in UK tax revenues that then get spent on homelesses, nurses, teachers, etc, etc is of course a bit too complicated for their tiny fvcking brains.

It really is amazing how many people still appear to think that capital expenditure at a macro level is a zero sum game.

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Yeah right man! And here's another thing: the money generated by these weapons of war create a new generation of radicals. Case in point, the Black Panther Party. The reason those cats felt able to act on their whims is that they grew up moderately well off. How? Because their parents had gotten jobs in defense industry manufacturing in the 40s and 50s.

So, if you want to see the world explode, liberals, endorse military spending. The cracked out renegades of tomorrow will thank you.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

That's right. Also, the conversations I have had with Vietnamese people over the course of multiple visits to Vietnam are entirely meaningless. Yes. Even the ones with guys who fought with ARVN and were subsequently despatched to re-education camps.

All meaningless because you saw a documentary on Sky and remembered 12% of the information. :thumbup:

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Um, I would not necessarily brag about my sex tourist escapades if I were you.

:titsup:

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Originally Posted by Peter

And mine to property prices inLondon. THank god for Russian oligarchs :)

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I have similar conditions to you but I would rather the market be depressed for a while otherwise my inheritance tax bill will force me to sell a property