My sister's voting Labour - not a good sign

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Originally Posted by Burney

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

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Impudent brats! I wish I had their chutzpah. That's political correctness for you, I suppose :-(

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Impudent brats! I wish I had their chutzpah. That's political correctness for you, I suppose :-(

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Yes. Still, Mick Hucknall's sound, it turns out.

https://twitter.com/mjhucknall/statu...52745793212416

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. Still, Mick Hucknall's sound, it turns out.

https://twitter.com/mjhucknall/statu...52745793212416

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Decent chap. Never liked his music although I seem to recall some of it was featured in Miami Vice.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Lives in a predominantly white working class town and voted to leave the EU. Should in theory be a text-book example of someone deserting Labour. And yet....

Thinks Corbyn "seems like a nice bloke" and has been heavily influenced by endless Facebook memes about the Tories making cuts to public services and selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The depicting of Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser has simply not cut through at all.

I'm back to being scared :-(

Burney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

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Isn't your sister Jewish?

The Tories are going to win, but Theresa May must be the most uninspiring Pm Britain has had for quite some time...

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Originally Posted by Darren's Dodgy Denim

The Tories are going to win, but Theresa May must be the most uninspiring Pm Britain has had for quite some time...

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No, you only need to look two PMs back to find that, I think.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

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You know, this sounds very much like it was birthed amidst the 80s London fashion, media and club scene. I don't know if you were there but the Face magazine and the New Musical Express, Ronnie Scott's, Heaven-under-the-Arches and the Wag club and illegal "warehouse" parties. WOMAD. Steve Strange and the Westwood siblings, Vivienne & Timothy. Soho and Camden. Richard Branson creating a budget airline to send London's surplus trendies to New York from where they could return even more insufferably trendy.

Basically the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons have finally taken over everything :-(

Robert Elms wrote the foreword to my London book.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

You know, this sounds very much like it was birthed amidst the 80s London fashion, media and club scene. I don't know if you were there but the Face magazine and the New Musical Express, Ronnie Scott's, Heaven-under-the-Arches and the Wag club and illegal "warehouse" parties. WOMAD. Steve Strange and the Westwood siblings, Vivienne & Timothy. Soho and Camden. Richard Branson creating a budget airline to send London's surplus trendies to New York from where they could return even more insufferably trendy.

Basically the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons have finally taken over everything :-(

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Originally Posted by Monty92

Robert Elms wrote the foreword to my London book.

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Oh, yes. I forgot him. He was one of the ringleaders too, was he not.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

You know, this sounds very much like it was birthed amidst the 80s London fashion, media and club scene. I don't know if you were there but the Face magazine and the New Musical Express, Ronnie Scott's, Heaven-under-the-Arches and the Wag club and illegal "warehouse" parties. WOMAD. Steve Strange and the Westwood siblings, Vivienne & Timothy. Soho and Camden. Richard Branson creating a budget airline to send London's surplus trendies to New York from where they could return even more insufferably trendy.

Basically the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons have finally taken over everything :-(

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I think you're possibly close there, but Julie Birchill has surely lapsed from that priesthood. Isn't she rather more Daily Mail these days?

I wasn't exactly 'there' as you put it, being more on the fringes of the fringes, but knew people who were closer to the height of the fashionable scene, or at least some more secretly fashionable subset of it, and part of the uniform was the politics. Even then I found it to be rigid and intolerant.

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Originally Posted by Ash

I think you're possibly close there, but Julie Birchill has surely lapsed from that priesthood. Isn't she rather more Daily Mail these days?

I wasn't exactly 'there' as you put it, being more on the fringes of the fringes, but knew people who were closer to the height of the fashionable scene, or at least some more secretly fashionable subset of it, and part of the uniform was the politics. Even then I found it to be rigid and intolerant.

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Oh, I wouldn't have any idea what became of her exactly, but it fits alright; you say yourself that each side's behaviour and attitude is as bad as the other. "Tiring", you said. Thing is, we don't mind demonisation when it happens to those we don't like anyway, do we. So that has become the normal way to engage with alternative views and opinions. See Also: AKB v WOB; in a way, saying that electing Theresa May is the end of the world is from the same thought process as saying no manager can replace Arsene Wenger. Or if you don't agree with me, you're worse than Hitler. "Rigid and intolerant" makes sense then, doesn't it, because who wants to be (or even be seen to be) tolerant of Hitler.

I was speaking of the "self-appointed aristocracy.. controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable," as B put it. That sounds extremely familiar from those days.

Now just imagine that sort and their "hangers-on and lickspittles .. of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views," transposed from fashion etc. to politics, as well, and other areas of apparently serious adult life, like football. Perhaps you'll even recall a Spitting Image skit mocking the youth television programming of the time, Janet Street-Porter and a' that, which featured celebrities going in and out of fashion every few seconds.

Politically, there's no Margaret Thatcher anymore, of course, but Donald Trump, say, will do just as well as a bogeyman. The antis simply never grew up, they didn't have to. We don't need values anymore, we have Facebook statuses and pinned tweets instead.

I was there, on the fringes of the fringes, as you say. Being from the sticks, I was taken by the urban, edgy, sophistication of the thing and I'd say it was actually the Arsenal that got me away from it all, helped me keep everything real. Certainly the Arsenal and the punk scene. Hard to imagine now, isn't it :-\

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Originally Posted by Sir C

So you're comfortable with him attending IRA funerals and hanging out with Adams and McGuinness?

I spent some time behind the Iron Curtain in the 1980s. I can tell you that anyone who visited East Germany at that time and returned still espousing socialism is either a sadist or mentally ill. I'll grant you Diane in the Loony camp, but Jeremy simply isn't this principled kind old chap the propaganda would have you believe; he is an enthusiastic proponent of systems and organisations every bit as repulsive as Nazism.

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For ****'s sake, can we stop beating about the bush here. Corbyn is not being targeted for sympathising with terrorists, he is being targeted for sympathising with the wrong side.

See the Conservative and UNIONIST Party for further information.

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Originally Posted by Peter

For ****'s sake, can we stop beating about the bush here. Corbyn is not being targeted for sympathising with terrorists, he is being targeted for sympathising with the wrong side.

See the Conservative and UNIONIST Party for further information.

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Isn't the whole point of politics, in layman's terms, that both sides are wrong?

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Isn't the whole point of politics, in layman's terms, that both sides are wrong?

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Not when it comes to terrorism. You have to pick a side.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Not when it comes to terrorism. You have to pick a side.

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Not in my experience. We happily create terrorists just as cheerily as we catch and kill them. Makes no difference to us, so long as we get paid.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Oh, I wouldn't have any idea what became of her exactly, but it fits alright; you say yourself that each side's behaviour and attitude is as bad as the other. "Tiring", you said. Thing is, we don't mind demonisation when it happens to those we don't like anyway, do we. So that has become the normal way to engage with alternative views and opinions. See Also: AKB v WOB; in a way, saying that electing Theresa May is the end of the world is from the same thought process as saying no manager can replace Arsene Wenger. Or if you don't agree with me, you're worse than Hitler. "Rigid and intolerant" makes sense then, doesn't it, because who wants to be (or even be seen to be) tolerant of Hitler.

I was speaking of the "self-appointed aristocracy.. controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable," as B put it. That sounds extremely familiar from those days.

Now just imagine that sort and their "hangers-on and lickspittles .. of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views," transposed from fashion etc. to politics, as well, and other areas of apparently serious adult life, like football. Perhaps you'll even recall a Spitting Image skit mocking the youth television programming of the time, Janet Street-Porter and a' that, which featured celebrities going in and out of fashion every few seconds.

Politically, there's no Margaret Thatcher anymore, of course, but Donald Trump, say, will do just as well as a bogeyman. The antis simply never grew up, they didn't have to. We don't need values anymore, we have Facebook statuses and pinned tweets instead.

I was there, on the fringes of the fringes, as you say. Being from the sticks, I was taken by the urban, edgy, sophistication of the thing and I'd say it was actually the Arsenal that got me away from it all, helped me keep everything real. Certainly the Arsenal and the punk scene. Hard to imagine now, isn't it :-\

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A lot of interesting points there. Will get back to you on them in future.

For now, on demonisation, I admit that I would quite like to see John McCain possessing that specific status in the minds of the western voter. Not much chance of that with the majority of the MSM pushing his agenda. Hence my position. I'm sure The Donald wouldn't mind either. It would make his stated intention (which he shares with that other demon, Jeremy Corbyn) of "getting along with Russia" a lot easier.