Do people not realise that every time Trump is thwarted by judges his grip on power

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

Yes - hence I added the caveat in another post - this is all so unpredictable. I would say he is the bending the status quo as far as it can go, something has to give. I would say it's going to snap back into usual form at some point but quite possible it might just snap into pieces

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Yes. I rather like the fellow. Well not 'like' exactly, since he's obviously a thoroughgoing arse. But I do actually think he's probably a good thing in general, giving the lie as he does to the 'There is no alternative' crowd.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Yes, of course. But when you consider that he is Commander in Chief with direct control of the military, a mind that refuses to be sidetracked by potentially catastrophic consequences is a rather worrying thing.

Thus far, the bravado has been largely promises and posturing. Hopefully it stays that way.

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Oh I shouldn't worry too much about that, p. He can choose to start any ridiculous war he fancies. They're not going to lose, are they? They've got bundles and bundles of the good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Oh I shouldn't worry too much about that, p. He can choose to start any ridiculous war he fancies. They're not going to lose, are they? They've got bundles and bundles of the good stuff.

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I don't care if they lose. I only care about my cats.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. I rather like the fellow. Well not 'like' exactly, since he's obviously a thoroughgoing arse. But I do actually think he's probably a good thing in general, giving the lie as he does to the 'There is no alternative' crowd.

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There isn't supposed to be and that is the point. There wont be again.

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Originally Posted by Peter

There isn't supposed to be and that is the point. There wont be again.

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That's the thing, though. He's living proof that there is - which is one of the reasons he's so very hated.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I don't think I said that. I certainly didn't intend to do so.

In ordinary politics the military controls the military because the President is house-trained. This is not ordinary politics.

I expect it will work itself out but he is still a scary guy to have in charge of anything.

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I'm sorry for the whataboutery, but how can he be considered "scary" for people who supported, say, Tony Blair? Surely all the scrutiny Trump is subject to greatly reduces his capacity for scariness, as certainly wouldn't have been the case for Hillary Clinton.

You *must* see how that (your) view comes across as less than serious, in this context?

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Not always, see Robert S McNamara

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.. With honourable exceptions, of course.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I don't care if they lose. I only care about my cats.

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How very isolationist of you p. Did you follow the unspoken wishes of your leader Jeremy and vote leave?

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Originally Posted by Peter

Sensible wars (the ones the military are happy to fight) are fine. Its the bad wars you need to worry about.

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The only sensible wars are ones with clear aims that you can win without things dragging on for years. So:

The Falklands = sensible war :-)
Gulf War 1 = sensible war :-)
Gulf War 2 = bad war :-(

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Your assumption, or someone's assumption, seems to be that everyone that voted for Trump did so because of his anti-establishment pitch, or anti-swamp pitch, you might say.

I think he got a lot of anti-Hillary support, and much of that will be less than enamored with his continual run ins with traditional government and, in some cases, the constitution. I just don't think there's been enough time and enough incidents to see the full impact of that.

Or to put it another way, if he wants 4 more years at some point he is going to have to play some 'ball', as the Americans put it,

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If only I had said more or less the same thing :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Not always, see Robert S McNamara

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You leave Uncle Bobby out of this

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Originally Posted by Burney

The only sensible wars are ones with clear aims that you can win without things dragging on for years. So:

The Falklands = sensible war :-)
Gulf War 1 = sensible war :-)
Gulf War 2 = bad war :-(

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Gulf War 2 made me though so I think it's wrong for everyone to be so critical.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Sensible wars (the ones the military are happy to fight) are fine. Its the bad wars you need to worry about.

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Soothing platitudes, but meaningless, Peter. The cycle of perpetual war and chaos for which Clinton was a continuity candidate was bad enough. Trump might well have his own conflicts, but at least we're not guarranteed this, as we are with, basically, any mainstream president. With Clinton there was a real menace of something even worse than the routine neocon-libhawk wars (direct and proxy).

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Gulf War 2 made me though so I think it's wrong for everyone to be so critical.

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Well that's the trick, isn't it? Get into a position whereby you win whoever wins.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well that's the trick, isn't it? Get into a position whereby you win whoever wins.

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You think he had a fallback position working for the Republican Guard?

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Originally Posted by Sir C

You think he had a fallback position working for the Republican Guard?

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I wouldn't put it past him. I'm sure he'd have looked lovely with a moustache.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well that's the trick, isn't it? Get into a position whereby you win whoever wins.

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Right. The key life question must always be, what's in it for *me*. It just mustn't look like it.

I tell all the young lads nowadays*.



*Not like that.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. I rather like the fellow. Well not 'like' exactly, since he's obviously a thoroughgoing arse. But I do actually think he's probably a good thing in general, giving the lie as he does to the 'There is no alternative' crowd.

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hmm - the most positive thing I took out of him winning was that the alternative was four years of Hillary and then a true right-wing bible-bashing automaton like Pence would win in 2020 - or someone like Cruz could have run against HC and win. Time for the Democrats to find a better alternative - although it seems like they've ditched the Clintons and are looking down the Kennedy route again

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Originally Posted by Burney

The only sensible wars are ones with clear aims that you can win without things dragging on for years. So:

The Falklands = sensible war :-)
Gulf War 1 = sensible war :-)
Gulf War 2 = bad war :-(

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Sensible conflict, b, for a, please

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

I'm sorry for the whataboutery, but how can he be considered "scary" for people who supported, say, Tony Blair? Surely all the scrutiny Trump is subject to greatly reduces his capacity for scariness, as certainly wouldn't have been the case for Hillary Clinton.

You *must* see how that (your) view comes across as less than serious, in this context?

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Because he is a ****ing egotistical loon. Blair made a bad call at the wrong moment and **** me he has been punished for it.

You know as well as I do that the first thing one requires of a political leader is the ability to take advice and to seek it from the right places. Can you honestly say that Trump fills you with confidence on that score?

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Originally Posted by Ash

Soothing platitudes, but meaningless, Peter. The cycle of perpetual war and chaos for which Clinton was a continuity candidate was bad enough. Trump might well have his own conflicts, but at least we're not guarranteed this, as we are with, basically, any mainstream president. With Clinton there was a real menace of something even worse than the routine neocon-libhawk wars (direct and proxy).

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Can we just clarify something here. You seem to have me down as a Hilary apologist.

Trust me, I would have come very, very close to voting for Trump myself....

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

.. With honourable exceptions, of course.

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Very honourable

Bob :love:

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Originally Posted by Burney

That's the thing, though. He's living proof that there is - which is one of the reasons he's so very hated.

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He is unique. There wont be another alternative. This alternative seems to involve being a **** on twitter....

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

If only I had said more or less the same thing :rolleyes:

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Like I'd read anything you post

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Originally Posted by Sir C

How very isolationist of you p. Did you follow the unspoken wishes of your leader Jeremy and vote leave?

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What can I say? I don't like them. They talk funny, they refer to the EPL and they elect a bloke who refers to them as 'folks'.....

This really wont do.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

Like I'd read anything you post

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fair point

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Originally Posted by Peter

Can we just clarify something here. You seem to have me down as a Hilary apologist.

Trust me, I would have come very, very close to voting for Trump myself....

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:hehe: Fair do's, Pedro.

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Originally Posted by Ash

:hehe: Fair do's, Pedro.

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AND....as much as I hate him if he brings a swathe of manufacturing jobs to the rust belt (without destroying the world) even I will hail him as a great President.

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Originally Posted by Peter

AND....as much as I hate him if he brings a swathe of manufacturing jobs to the rust belt (without destroying the world) even I will hail him as a great President.

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If he did that Bruce would have nothing to mither on about.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Because he is a ****ing egotistical loon. Blair made a bad call at the wrong moment and **** me he has been punished for it.

You know as well as I do that the first thing one requires of a political leader is the ability to take advice and to seek it from the right places. Can you honestly say that Trump fills you with confidence on that score?

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He has surrounded himself with a bunch of men and women who have taken both him and his candidacy about a million miles further than anybody else believed was remotely possible. At this point, what more do you want :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Peter

He is unique. There wont be another alternative. This alternative seems to involve being a **** on twitter....

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He is a unique personality certainly. His coalition and his programme need not be though. In fact, it may transfer quite easily to another candidate, perhaps a less controversial one.

He did and said what he had to to get *Donald Trump* elected; somebody else may not need to be so raw.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

If he did that Bruce would have nothing to mither on about.

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Oh, well. We'll always have "Atlantic City".

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

He has surrounded himself with a bunch of men and women who have taken both him and his candidacy about a million miles further than anybody else believed was remotely possible. At this point, what more do you want :shrug:

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And since taking office he has consistently proven the fact that running and governing are very different. Most of his moves so far have been pretty poor or laughable. His Press Secretary is a laughing stock and his ridiculous travel bans have made the country look daft.

Then there is the constant attack on the press and his habit of responding to absolutely everything.

Who is telling him to shut the **** up and stay off twitter?

You're going to have to do better than that, I'm afraid. That's all just sour grapes. Surely you've been around long enough to know that your opponents' captiousness is merely a tribute to your success.

Or simply put, Obama-style: He won.

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Originally Posted by Peter

And since taking office he has consistently proven the fact that running and governing are very different. Most of his moves so far have been pretty poor or laughable. His Press Secretary is a laughing stock and his ridiculous travel bans have made the country look daft.

Then there is the constant attack on the press and his habit of responding to absolutely everything.

Who is telling him to shut the **** up and stay off twitter?

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

You're going to have to do better than that, I'm afraid. That's all just sour grapes. Surely you've been around long enough to know that your opponents' captiousness is merely a tribute to your success.

Or simply put, Obama-style: He won.

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He isn't my opponent.