Hey, at least we can take comfort from the words of the Orlando shooter’s father

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Originally Posted by Burney

I've always liked the way the Noah story is told as a really kid-friendly Bible story (cuddly animals, etc), with no-one apparently seeming to notice that it represents God as a capricious, indiscriminate psychopath who, like a spoiled toddler, decides to smash up his toy because it's not doing what he wants, causing the deaths of (presumably) millions - and loads of innocent animals (except the fish, of course - they get off the hook entirely, as it were).

I appreciate that this is hardly an original sentiment, but it is amazing how quick churches are to use this frankly terrifying story to suck in kids. Even more terrifying is how successful they are in doing so.

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It's Job that gets me, poor lad was properly bantered off by Him.

"Oi, job, if you really love me you'll lob your kid off a mountain"

Job takes his kid up the mountain and goes to chuck him off.

"Aaaaaaaaaaah, Job you mug!"

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

I think you missed the point here. I was saying that Christians tend to miss the point of most of the teachings of the NT. Ironic, given their name and all, but there you go.

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Oh, I wouldn't disagree. But that's humans for you - arseholes, basically.

The point is, however, that Christians are arseholes in spite of the teachings of Christ, whereas muslims are arseholes because of - or at least with the blessing of - the teachings of Muhammed.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Oh, I wouldn't disagree. But that's humans for you - arseholes, basically.

The point is, however, that Christians are arseholes in spite of the teachings of Christ, whereas muslims are arseholes because of - or at least with the blessing of - the teachings of Muhammed.

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I'm not entirely sure what's better though. Or why we seem to be arguing about it.

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

It's Job that gets me, poor lad was properly bantered off by Him.

"Oi, job, if you really love me you'll lob your kid off a mountain"

Job takes his kid up the mountain and goes to chuck him off.

"Aaaaaaaaaaah, Job you mug!"

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Also, Job:

https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/gob1.jpg

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

It's Job that gets me, poor lad was properly bantered off by Him.

"Oi, job, if you really love me you'll lob your kid off a mountain"

Job takes his kid up the mountain and goes to chuck him off.

"Aaaaaaaaaaah, Job you mug!"

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Ah, now, you've got your stories mixed up there. It was Abraham that God told to sacrifice his son Isaac and then stopped him. God (via Satan) just killed all of Job's sons.

That's right - Abraham. The chief patriarch of all the peoples of the Book was quite happy to slaughter his son because God told him to. It's been pretty much downhill since then, really. :-(

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Originally Posted by Burney

Ah, now, you've got your stories mixed up there. It was Abraham that God told to sacrifice his son Isaac and then stopped him. God (via Satan) just killed all of Job's sons.

That's right - Abraham. The chief patriarch of all the peoples of the Book was quite happy to slaughter his son because God told him to. It's been pretty much downhill since then, really. :-(

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Oh yeah, I should listen to Bob Dylan lyrics more closely :music: :Highway61:

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Oh yeah, I should listen to Bob Dylan lyrics more closely :music: :Highway61:

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Yes, Hurricane, you should. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Oh yeah, I should listen to Bob Dylan lyrics more closely :music: :Highway61:

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i thought you said you'd read the bible. Hmmm?

Not paying much attention, if you were. :judge:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes, Hurricane, you should. :hehe:

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In my defence, well just that really

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Originally Posted by Ash

i thought you said you'd read the bible. Hmmm?

Not paying much attention, if you were. :judge:

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Listen mate, you have to get past all the begatting first. There's a lot of begatting.

Like your mum

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. I do find it rather odd listening to people talk about how this bloke was someone who had made a 'radical interpretation of his faith' when in fact he's just someone who has followed the instructions clearly laid out in the Qur'an. :shrug:

It is also quite amusing watching the liberal media jump with desperate relief on the gun laws issue as a means of avoiding or at least downplaying the whole 'he was a raving muslamic nutjob' aspect of the matter.

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Ah, but you see, there's the complication of the issue. Many right wing people clearly have no problem with the fate meted out to the gays. The Texas lieutenant government tweeted, 'reap what you sow,' before taking it down again.

On the one hand, they call for arming all peoples. On the other, it's not desirable to arm the gays, who should be mowed down like sheep. It's a bit of a pickle actually.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes, but since he is explicitly following the instructions laid out by his religion in his actions, he could quite easily have justified his actions as holy and therefore not only not in contravention of Ramadan, but actively in keeping with it.

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Good God, man! The old and new testaments are full of killin'. Smiting this, whacking that. Actually they don't say 'whack.' That was me.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yeah, but that comparative argument with Christianity doesn't really wash, since Christianity is based on the New Testament and the teachings of Christ, which explicitly preclude the killing of anyone and are profoundly non-violent. The theology is pretty clear: Christ's teachings and sacrifice represent a new covenant between God and man that overwrites the Old Testament - which I agree is pretty ****ed up in parts. However, the Old Testament is simply not fundamental to Christian faith - whatever the more extreme protestant fundamentalists may pretend - and therefore can offer no meaningful justification for any violent actions by a Christian.

Islam, by contrast, takes all of the Qur'an as the explicit word of God as expressed to his prophet - contradictions and all. Ultimately, Christ's teachings are explicitly and consistently non-violent, while those of Muhammed are not. Pointing to the Old Testament and suggesting that Christians are no better than Muslims in respect of the violence of their doctrine is simply not valid, I'm afraid.

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You're incorrect. The new testament is not an overlay of the old testament, redacting large portions of the OT. It is an interpretation of the old testament, an attempt to inscribe the older messages within new teaching. This is how it was understood in the high points of Christianity's growth: as in, for example, the high middle ages. Those same periods did a ****-ton of crusading.

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Originally Posted by eastgermanautos

Ah, but you see, there's the complication of the issue. Many right wing people clearly have no problem with the fate meted out to the gays. The Texas lieutenant government tweeted, 'reap what you sow,' before taking it down again.

On the one hand, they call for arming all peoples. On the other, it's not desirable to arm the gays, who should be mowed down like sheep. It's a bit of a pickle actually.

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Actually, EGA, the guy regularly sends out Bible verse tweets on an automated schedule every Sunday morning. This one happened to be an unfortunate coincidence. Nice job extrapolating that into "ALL" right wingers hate gays and want them dead.

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Originally Posted by Chief Arrowhead

Actually, EGA, the guy regularly sends out Bible verse tweets on an automated schedule every Sunday morning. This one happened to be an unfortunate coincidence. Nice job extrapolating that into "ALL" right wingers hate gays and want them dead.

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Why thank you. ;-) Just playin' man, you know that.

I would like to see the shooter, his father, his wife and his son all executed.

Seems a bit harsh, imo

I don't think the Bible touches at all on killing bufties, unless maybe it is Old Testament.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. I do find it rather odd listening to people talk about how this bloke was someone who had made a 'radical interpretation of his faith' when in fact he's just someone who has followed the instructions clearly laid out in the Qur'an. :shrug:

It is also quite amusing watching the liberal media jump with desperate relief on the gun laws issue as a means of avoiding or at least downplaying the whole 'he was a raving muslamic nutjob' aspect of the matter.

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Or, perhaps it has absolutely nothing to do with his or any other religion!