I tell you what Clive, if I was a jewish I'd be feeling a trifle nervous right now.

Well one local councillor from North Leeds said it was all *******s this week, if that helps.

Apologies, Dr H - you are correct. Prevalent was too strong a word

Couldn't agree more with the second point as well

I think we can rule that out under "whataboutery"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

I'm not agreeing with what Sir C says, merely pointing out that you (he) are still presenting silly rebuttals which hardly help the issue. Lots of slave owners gave work to lots of black people so they definitely aren't racist then. Didn't Nigel Farage marry a foreigner - bang goes the Xenophobia accusations against UKIP

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Donald and Ivana Trump :judge:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

No, no point scoring going on when Cameron, in parliament, starts pointing out the people Khan has associated with, while neglecting to mention that his own candidate for London Mayor was actively petitioning on his behalf.

Interesting to see you can agree with Jones occasionally though.

Yes, there is a problem with anti semitism, yes it does exist on the left, but let's not pretend it's somehow ideologically isolated there.

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I'm not pretending anything. I'm just suggesting that, were I jewish, I would be concerned at the possibility of a Labour election win :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

Not denying it exists, but prevalent is a bit strong.

There's also something massively unappealing about some of the finger pointing, lots of pot calling the kettle black.

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http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-jeremy-corbyn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36034657

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...you-should-too

And that's just for starters. So the question is this: if so many prominent Labour-supporting Jews are seeing this as a growing problem, why are the likes of you and Jorge so ready to deny it?

And were I Jewish, I'd be surprised and amazed at the sudden sensitivity of the Conservative party to my fears.

Come on, it's not like they spent the last election laughing at a jewish guy trying to eat a bacon sandwich or anything

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

And were I Jewish, I'd be surprised and amazed at the sudden sensitivity of the Conservative party to my fears.

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Who the hell is talking about the Conservative party? Are you accusing me of being a spokesman for the Conservativbe party, or is this a standard 'chuck in a reference to something completely irrelevant' to obfuscate the issue?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

And were I Jewish, I'd be surprised and amazed at the sudden sensitivity of the Conservative party to my fears.

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Really? Why? Jews have long been intrinsic to the Conservative Party. We had a Jewish PM in the 19th century and Mrs T was MP for Finchley and surrounded herself with Jews in cabinet and other senior positions - not least because she felt the virtues of the Jewish people perfectly embodied modern Tory values.

So if you're going for the 'Tories are anti-semites' line, I'm afraid that dog simply won't hunt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burney

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-jeremy-corbyn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36034657

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...you-should-too

And that's just for starters. So the question is this: if so many prominent Labour-supporting Jews are seeing this as a growing problem, why are the likes of you and Jorge so ready to deny it?

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Oh come on Berni, it's not like you to be completely ignorant of the internal politics of the labour party.

As I've said above, repeatedly, there is anti semitism on the left (as well as the right) and it's a problem.

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Come on, it's not like they spent the last election laughing at a jewish guy trying to eat a bacon sandwich or anything

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Wrong. Everyone laughed at a hopeless adenoidal wrongun trying to eat a bacon sandwich. Trying to turn that into an anti-semitic slur is a ludicrous reach. I might also point out the Oliver Lewin/Michael Howard Pigs Might Fly Labour advert. Or the one where they represented Michael Howard as Shylock.

Pure as the driven snow, the Tories. "Some of my best cabinet ministers are Jews".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...azi-songs.html

As for "not least because she felt the virtues of the Jewish people perfectly embodied modern Tory values"

Errr..... Are you saying they're money-grabbers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

Oh come on Berni, it's not like you to be completely ignorant of the internal politics of the labour party.

As I've said above, repeatedly, there is anti semitism on the left (as well as the right) and it's a problem.

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Well the 'internal politics' here seem to be between Jews who feel the Labour leadership is pandering to and indulging itself in profoundly anti-semitic politics and those who want to pretend it's just a few bad apples.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Who the hell is talking about the Conservative party? Are you accusing me of being a spokesman for the Conservativbe party, or is this a standard 'chuck in a reference to something completely irrelevant' to obfuscate the issue?

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Oh don't be such a coquette. We're having a discussion about UK politics, how are the Tories irrelevant?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

Pure as the driven snow, the Tories. "Some of my best cabinet ministers are Jews".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...azi-songs.html

As for "not least because she felt the virtues of the Jewish people perfectly embodied modern Tory values"

Errr..... Are you saying they're money-grabbers?

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I've heard Sir C sing the Horst Wessel song. Doesn't make him an anti-semite. Indeed, I know he's not.

Oh, and I actually meant the Jewish values of respect for education, self-betterment, self-reliance and hard work.

Interesting that you went immediately to 'money grabbers', though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well the 'internal politics' here seem to be between Jews who feel the Labour leadership is pandering to and indulging itself in profoundly anti-semitic politics and those who want to pretend it's just a few bad apples.

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That's a remarkably decontextualised reading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Well the 'internal politics' here seem to be between Jews who feel the Labour leadership is pandering to and indulging itself in profoundly anti-semitic politics and those who want to pretend it's just a few bad apples.

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It's a bit more complex than that, like here where JC tells Gerald Kaufman - a prominent Labour Jewish figure - to stop saying the Tories are pro-Israel. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....abour-10381513

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burney

I've heard Sir C sing the Horst Wessel song. Doesn't make him an anti-semite. Indeed, I know he's not.

Oh, and I actually meant the Jewish values of respect for education, self-betterment, self-reliance and hard work.

Interesting that you went immediately to 'money grabbers', though.

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Ah yes, I must be an anti-semite. That or I don't see any virtues in Tory politics.

I'm sure singing Horst Wessel song is just a bit of high jinks of some sort, sounds like great fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

I'm sure singing Horst Wessel song is just a bit of high jinks of some sort, sounds like great fun.

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Say what you like, it's a grand tune. It's certainly better than reggae.

Altogether now:

:music:

"Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt..."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Wrong. Everyone laughed at a hopeless adenoidal wrongun trying to eat a bacon sandwich. Trying to turn that into an anti-semitic slur is a ludicrous reach. I might also point out the Oliver Lewin/Michael Howard Pigs Might Fly Labour advert. Or the one where they represented Michael Howard as Shylock.

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Or the one where Anne Widdicombe said he had something of the night about him?

Is this *really* a left right thing though, or is it just a thing thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burney

Say what you like, it's a grand tune. It's certainly better than reggae.

Altogether now:

:music:

"Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt..."

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What the **** is that supposed to mean? They don't even write in proper English.

Look,can we all just stop talking about Jews? They invented communism you know.And capitalism come to think of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking

What the **** is that supposed to mean? They don't even write in proper English.

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loooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Jorge

Or the one where Anne Widdicombe said he had something of the night about him?

Is this *really* a left right thing though, or is it just a thing thing?

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Oh, I'm happy to concede that Ann Widdecombe was and is simply a nasty, old-fashioned Catholic anti-semite.

However, none of that distracts from the fact that right now there is an endemic problem with anti-semitism on the left. The reason for it is quite simple and quite obvious - namely the fact that the left (which now controls the party) has uncomfortably close ties with extremist Islam via groups such as Stop The War and various anti-Israel alliances. So the problem is not that it's one or two bad guys, it's that the left is now inextricably linked with active and vicious anti-semites of the very worst kind and the Party is unable and unwilling to face that fact.

Yes. And just as there are those on the left that attempt to hide their anti-semitism under the cover of anti-zionism, there are those on the right who attempt to exploit Islamaphobia under the guise of anti-anti-semitism....

It's a funny old world, eh?

Ask ash imo