In the highl;ights of the 97-98 season you can see how football ought to be played.

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Originally Posted by WES

I think the blown it narrative and the playing dull football narrative are simplistic.

We have had a lot of injuries this year, and expecting all our new arrvials to step in i.e. Hchappie for Calafiori, Eze for Odegaard, Gyok for Havertz, without a drop off is not reasonable. One off the least commented upon issues this year is how poor Havertz has been and where he should be playing. Before his injury last year he was superb and a clear choice for no. 9. Gyok is in the team ahead of Havertz, certainly not something I expected or wanted.

And football generally in the PL is pretty dull. I don't watch the turgid crap we've been putting out recently and then switch to Liverpool/City and get blown away by how exciting it is.

It's some complex combination of injuries, common tactics in the PL, Arteta adjusting to a new set of players and yes, Arteta still learning to some degree. Someone will stumble to the title because of how sh1t the league has been, I'm not convinced that means we bottled it. I think it means we were lucky to be 9 points ahead in the first place.

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I certainly dont think we have bottled the run in. I just think that we didnt have any bottle to begin with.

I'm not having this guff about new signings. If that were a big problem you'd expect a slow start with things improving. That hasn't been the case.

Gyok has taken a while to settle in and I still dont think we know how to use him.properly. same with Eze.

Hincapie took a while but has been excellent, and Mosquera looked pretty good from the start. Madueke had a few flashes early on but has been **** recently. Norgaard was never given a chance.

There are many errors you can point to but for me the problem is fundamental. It is Arteta. Everything stems from his negative, controlling approach.

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Originally Posted by Peter

I certainly dont think we have bottled the run in. I just think that we didnt have any bottle to begin with.

I'm not having this guff about new signings. If that were a big problem you'd expect a slow start with things improving. That hasn't been the case.

Gyok has taken a while to settle in and I still dont think we know how to use him.properly. same with Eze.

Hincapie took a while but has been excellent, and Mosquera looked pretty good from the start. Madueke had a few flashes early on but has been **** recently. Norgaard was never given a chance.

There are many errors you can point to but for me the problem is fundamental. It is Arteta. Everything stems from his negative, controlling approach.

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That theory doesn't explain the performances in the CL group stage or the many other good performances i.e. Leeds 4-0. We have seen enough good performances that the recent performances are inexplicable to me.

My only conclusion is that the reasons are far more complex than we and the media are suggesting. Rice and Saka, as examples, are playing well below their ability and it seems injuries are part of the problem. Add Zubi and Havertz into the under-performing list and Timber, Calafiori and Ode being absent through injury and the poor performances maybe aren't so surpising.

The inexplicable part is why so many good players are under-performing. I'm not buying this is entirely because of Arteta's negative approach, Peter. I think it's more complicated than that and almost certainly includes him not leveraging the large squad as well as he could have earlier in the season.

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Originally Posted by WES

That theory doesn't explain the performances in the CL group stage or the many other good performances i.e. Leeds 4-0. We have seen enough good performances that the recent performances are inexplicable to me.

My only conclusion is that the reasons are far more complex than we and the media are suggesting. Rice and Saka, as examples, are playing well below their ability and it seems injuries are part of the problem. Add Zubi and Havertz into the under-performing list and Timber, Calafiori and Ode being absent through injury and the poor performances maybe aren't so surpising.

The inexplicable part is why so many good players are under-performing. I'm not buying this is entirely because of Arteta's negative approach, Peter. I think it's more complicated than that and almost certainly includes him not leveraging the large squad as well as he could have earlier in the season.

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Spurs finished fourth in the Champions League group stage. It is ****ing easy. Some of the teams you play are utter **** and others are just not clicking yet. Since we hit the knockout rounds we've looked just like we do in the domestic game.

The loss of Timber is a big problem, as is Saka's form and lack of fitness. But we have a 50 million quid player to replace Saka- unfortunately he is ****.

The Timber problem is made worse because his replacement, Ben White, has just disappeared as a footballer. And that is a very worrying trend here. First it was Martinelli and the goals dried up. Then last season the Odegaard we knew disappeared and hasn't come back. This season we have seen it happen to Saka and White.

Why? Aeteta has to solve that. It is a real problem.

Remember how good Odegaard was in his first three years. Look at him last season, and now. If tje same thing happens with Saka.....

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Originally Posted by Sir C

you can see how football ought to be played.

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That's what I thought watching the highlights. But I thought it applied to football generally. I just so enjoyed watching us attack {and other teams attack and score against us} without all this pressing. The games were open and more enjoyable to watch.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

That's what I thought watching the highlights. But I thought it applied to football generally. I just so enjoyed watching us attack {and other teams attack and score against us} without all this pressing. The games were open and more enjoyable to watch.

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Pressing combined with footballers being fitter, stronger and referees letting them 'play more' is killing football imo

We always moan about foreigners diving and European refs giving everything and it's not a man's game etc etc

But watching Barca and Atl Madrid was a joy, less pressing, less physical play and much more football.

Of course, Pep is to blame for all this pressing nonsense.

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Originally Posted by WES

Pressing combined with footballers being fitter, stronger and referees letting them 'play more' is killing football imo

We always moan about foreigners diving and European refs giving everything and it's not a man's game etc etc

But watching Barca and Atl Madrid was a joy, less pressing, less physical play and much more football.

Of course, Pep is to blame for all this pressing nonsense.

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Yet his Barcelona side were one of the best I have ever seen. Not because of how they won the ball back but because of what they did with it once they had.

I watched Leeds at Old Trafford earlier in the week and they were fantastic. Fast, aggressive, lots of movement, one touch passing.

You cant blame pressing for teams being dull. Ultimately, it is a choice.

We are at our best when we press high up the pitch with aggression. We are at our most frustrating when we sit in low block and refuse to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Yet his Barcelona side were one of the best I have ever seen. Not because of how they won the ball back but because of what they did with it once they had.

I watched Leeds at Old Trafford earlier in the week and they were fantastic. Fast, aggressive, lots of movement, one touch passing.

You cant blame pressing for teams being dull. Ultimately, it is a choice.

We are at our best when we press high up the pitch with aggression. We are at our most frustrating when we sit in low block and refuse to play the game.

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I think we're at our best when we try to move the ball forward as quickly as possible once we get it, wherever we win it. Those Pep teams were wonderful to watch because they were so confident on the ball, they could move it quickly forward or keep it at will. And if they started playing dull possession football Messi ran through 5 players and scored :-)

I think we tend to start games well, but if the oppo are pressing us and we start to give it away, instead of persisting, we stop playing. And next thing you know every time we win possession we start playing it back instead of forward and then the inevitable slow, cautious, conservative passing game starts and we seem unable to shake out of it.

You can say it is Arteta's fault for not teaching the players to stay with it, or teaching them to pass it better, and you might be partly right. But I think the injured players and the players out of form means we're more likely to give it away and more likely to revert than otherwise.

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Originally Posted by WES

I think we're at our best when we try to move the ball forward as quickly as possible once we get it, wherever we win it. Those Pep teams were wonderful to watch because they were so confident on the ball, they could move it quickly forward or keep it at will. And if they started playing dull possession football Messi ran through 5 players and scored :-)

I think we tend to start games well, but if the oppo are pressing us and we start to give it away, instead of persisting, we stop playing. And next thing you know every time we win possession we start playing it back instead of forward and then the inevitable slow, cautious, conservative passing game starts and we seem unable to shake out of it.

You can say it is Arteta's fault for not teaching the players to stay with it, or teaching them to pass it better, and you might be partly right. But I think the injured players and the players out of form means we're more likely to give it away and more likely to revert than otherwise.

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Has to be said, his focus when buying midfielders is not primarily on their technical level. Rice and Zubimendi are fine players but they are not exactly Fabregas when it comes to holding, shielding, touch etc. Nor are Merino and Norgard.

You have to assume that is what he wants. And that if his plan was to pass through midfield then he would buy something else. Compare our play in midfield to PSG. Then compare the midfielders.

My biggest gripe is, as you know, what happens when we go 1-0 up, particularly away from home. And occasionally at 0-0. More than anything else, that is what has cost us this title. For every Fulham, United and Brighton there is a Sunderland, Brentford and Wolves. And a Liverpool. And a Villa. And a Forest

That is all mentality and tactical approach. Nothing else. And that is Arteta.

One of the other reasons our season has got more difficult is that Liverpool and City have shown sides how you can easily contain us. Our predictability has become a vice as teams have worked out the weaknesses.

You are of course right that injuries and poor individual form has been a big issue recently. Having Saka out or stinking the place out is a huge, huge miss for us. But the way we play always delivered fine margins. The slightest drop in efficiency was always going to hurt us.

I said, from Anfield on, that you cant win the league playing like this. We may still prove me wrong. But whatever happens, I hope we dont try and repeat it next season. It would be lovely to actually enjoy the odd game :-(