Let's forget about yesterday. Dwelling on that is not the answer.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Are we back to redefining success again? :-(

I thought we'd done all that. I thought we wanted to be a football club again. One that sought to achieve rhe statistical anomaly of winning something... sometimes.

And if we are determined to lose, do we have to lose ugly?

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We've always been that way; winning something sometimes :shrug:

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Originally Posted by WES

But red?s point which you did not address is a fair one, Peter. Form suggests that under Arteta these chances will not come every 10-15 years but far more frequently.

So no need to panic then. :-)

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With respect, what we do does not create those opportunities. It just puts us in a position to take advantage of them.

Which we are currently failing to do.

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Originally Posted by Peter

With respect, what we do does not create those opportunities. It just puts us in a position to take advantage of them.

Which we are currently failing to do.

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I really get the impression Mikel (with all his faults, inexperience etc.) is truly baked into this venture for the long haul, since KSE took full ownership of the club. Which is great if you love him, as I do, despite him not having been my ideal choice; possibly not so great if you're not all that bothered who our manager is or even fancy somebody else.

Anyway, they all (we all!) tolerated Wenger for fourteen years without a league title, nine of which went by without winning any trophy at all. Arteta possibly has a higher ceiling than that, and certainly a higher floor. That'll do, unless we've all been digesting too much anti-Arsenal messaging from our friends in the North-West. Obviously, and tellingly, they want him out.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

I really get the impression Mikel (with all his faults, inexperience etc.) is truly baked into this venture for the long haul, since KSE took full ownership of the club. Which is great if you love him, as I do, despite him not having been my ideal choice; possibly not so great if you're not all that bothered who our manager is or even fancy somebody else.

Anyway, they all (we all!) tolerated Wenger for fourteen years without a league title, nine of which went by without winning any trophy at all. Arteta possibly has a higher ceiling than that, and certainly a higher floor. That'll do, unless we've all been digesting too much anti-Arsenal messaging from our friends in the North-West. Obviously, and tellingly, they want him out.

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I think you are right, and he will be here for a while.

I just hope he changes a bit. We are due some fun

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Originally Posted by Peter

I think you are right, and he will be here for a while.

I just hope he changes a bit. We are due some fun

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I love watching us play.

It's even better when we win, of course, but the game's the thing; you have to enjoy it or what's the point of it.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

I love watching us play.

It's even better when we win, of course, but the game's the thing; you have to enjoy it or what's the point of it.

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I dont enjoy it. :-(

It is like watching someone repeatedly burn your toast and being unable to stop them doing it.

And three days later, in go another two slices....

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Originally Posted by WES

But red?s point which you did not address is a fair one, Peter. Form suggests that under Arteta these chances will not come every 10-15 years but far more frequently.

So no need to panic then. :-)

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Something you said earlier is bugging me- that sometimes the good performances can make the bad ones all the more frustrating.

That's it- it's Dubai. Without that form after Dubai, I would just assume that Arteta is incapable of coaching anything else.

But he isnt. Did he not like those performances? Or does he prefer these? Or is he unable to recapture whatever spirit they found out there?

That is what bugs me. Can he not see where it is going wrong? :-(

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Originally Posted by Peter

Something you said earlier is bugging me- that sometimes the good performances can make the bad ones all the more frustrating.

That's it- it's Dubai. Without that form after Dubai, I would just assume that Arteta is incapable of coaching anything else.

But he isnt. Did he not like those performances? Or does he prefer these? Or is he unable to recapture whatever spirit they found out there?

That is what bugs me. Can he not see where it is going wrong? :-(

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Yes, exactly. But my conclusion, therefore, is that it is not as simple as Arteta teaching them to play that way, or not teaching them to play another way. If that was the issue we would not have seen the performances in the CL and in the league (less so) that we have.

I think the problem is more complex. Far too complex for a bunch of windbags on the internet like us to understand. :-)

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Originally Posted by WES

Yes, exactly. But my conclusion, therefore, is that it is not as simple as Arteta teaching them to play that way, or not teaching them to play another way. If that was the issue we would not have seen the performances in the CL and in the league (less so) that we have.

I think the problem is more complex. Far too complex for a bunch of windbags on the internet like us to understand. :-)

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I don't know how many times I have to say it but it's the way that PL teams setup against us. We have the data. We know that Arsenal specifically a much deeper defensive line than any other team in the PL. This isn't because opposition are worried about us but that they are exploiting are technical deficiencies in the final third - why wouldn't they? It's their best chance of getting something from the game.

In the CL group stages this mantra doesn't exist. We are playing against clubs with egos and, as we have seen, we absolutely thrive when given the extra space. I imagine that clubs will look to exploit the very deep blocks against us in two-legged ties and that will ultimately be our downfall in the QF or SF.

If you look at every single one (zero exceptions) of the top clubs in England and Europe; their front lines are packed full of technical quality. That is something where we are hugely deficient. It will obviously be addressed in the summer and I think it's one of the final things we need to do to get this team into Stage 5 of Arteta's/KSE's 5 stage plan.

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Originally Posted by Rich

I'm semi back on the wagon now that I've looked at the remaining fixtures (assuming we don't lose at City).

The big unknown that I have is 'how good really are City'. I've not watched them much this season as I find them souless but I know they have pretty routinely dropped points throughout the season. Have we seen anything to suggest that they're suddenly going to buck that trend?

I think my feelings of negativity were heightened by them winning away at Liverpool. But remember they were very poor that game too.

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If we actually played good football and have been a bit unlucky I'd be optimistic as well looking at it that way... But our football is abysmal. So zero optimism in fact I'm bracing myself for a 3rd place finish.