It takes a special talent

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Originally Posted by 7sisters

Southgate pretty much ballsed it up before the plane landed. We offered nothing resembling creativity in midfield. Mainoo did well but ran out steam and ideas quite quickly. Either way. Spain offered Rodri, Carvajal and Ruiz. Proper men v boys stuff.
Trippier was seriously past his sell by date. Saka had no one to play off and was mobbed by two or three defenders whenever he received the ball.
We offered zero, and I do mean zero attacking threat from the left wing.
Oh, and I still couldn’t work out what Southgate’s brief was for Foden and Bellingham. ?

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Felt a bit for Foden, as you say, no clear plan, just roam around and do something.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

Felt a bit for Foden, as you say, no clear plan, just roam around and do something.

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Wont have helped him having the pundits labelling him one of the best number 10s in the world when, in fact, he isn't even the best number 10 at his club, or for his country, isn't even in the top 3 in the premier league and hardly ever plays there.

Moving Bellingham back alongside Rice might have been an option but I do think the problem goes back to an unfit Harry Kane. With him up front we couldn't press high and couldn't get players running past him.

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Originally Posted by Peter

We seem to have reverted to our usual position of believing we have the best players in the world and it is all the manager's fault.

The problem with that argument is that it is *******s. We have some very good players but so does everybody else. We are still rather one dimensional in midfield and below the best with possession

The problem with blaming the manager is that they get so little time with the players. Modern coaches couldn't translate their club football into international football as they can't prepare the players physically.

And those calling us too defensive.... look how easily spain spiced through the more attacking line up once it reached 1-1.

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The essential problem we've always had is that, in Britain, sport and especially soccerball, is for everyone and not only those who are actually any good at it and most importantly WANT to play. Our best players have always been "good enough" but we're selecting from a pool who are mostly nowhere near good enough and not interested anyway and further on whom we are forced to waste an awful lot of valuable time, energy and resources. It's all good fun and everything but it does not help when trying to emulate the elite.

All-day schooling kills us. Kick them all out at lunchtime so they can go to properly organised clubs where those that want to and show promise can get at least semi-professional coaching, in whatever they want to do. How else to explain generations of English players all exhibiting that essential hesitancy on the ball and unfamiliarity in possession as a team. They simply haven't played enough and lack intimacy with the mechanics of a game of football.

The whole nonsense is rather like me visiting Crufts searching for decent hounds to buy. Out of the twenty-thousand or so entries, perhaps three or four of them could actually turn a hare as the best hunting dogs NEVER go to Crufts because they spend their entire lives out in the fields actually hunting and proving themselves, not posing in a show ring.

Gareth actually did a fantastic job in the circumstances, he understood our limitations and made the best out of them :-)

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

The essential problem we've always had is that, in Britain, sport and especially soccerball, is for everyone and not only those who are actually any good at it and most importantly WANT to play. Our best players have always been "good enough" but we're selecting from a pool who are mostly nowhere near good enough and not interested anyway and further on whom we are forced to waste an awful lot of valuable time, energy and resources. It's all good fun and everything but it does not help when trying to emulate the elite.

All-day schooling kills us. Kick them all out at lunchtime so they can go to properly organised clubs where those that want to and show promise can get at least semi-professional coaching, in whatever they want to do. How else to explain generations of English players all exhibiting that essential hesitancy on the ball and unfamiliarity in possession as a team. They simply haven't played enough and lack intimacy with the mechanics of a game of football.

The whole nonsense is rather like me visiting Crufts searching for decent hounds to buy. Out of the twenty-thousand or so entries, perhaps three or four of them could actually turn a hare as the best hunting dogs NEVER go to Crufts because they spend their entire lives out in the fields actually hunting and proving themselves, not posing in a show ring.

Gareth actually did a fantastic job in the circumstances, he understood our limitations and made the best out of them :-)

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Haven't all the current elite England players come through the Academy system?

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

The essential problem we've always had is that, in Britain, sport and especially soccerball, is for everyone and not only those who are actually any good at it and most importantly WANT to play. Our best players have always been "good enough" but we're selecting from a pool who are mostly nowhere near good enough and not interested anyway and further on whom we are forced to waste an awful lot of valuable time, energy and resources. It's all good fun and everything but it does not help when trying to emulate the elite.

All-day schooling kills us. Kick them all out at lunchtime so they can go to properly organised clubs where those that want to and show promise can get at least semi-professional coaching, in whatever they want to do. How else to explain generations of English players all exhibiting that essential hesitancy on the ball and unfamiliarity in possession as a team. They simply haven't played enough and lack intimacy with the mechanics of a game of football.

The whole nonsense is rather like me visiting Crufts searching for decent hounds to buy. Out of the twenty-thousand or so entries, perhaps three or four of them could actually turn a hare as the best hunting dogs NEVER go to Crufts because they spend their entire lives out in the fields actually hunting and proving themselves, not posing in a show ring.

Gareth actually did a fantastic job in the circumstances, he understood our limitations and made the best out of them :-)

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As fans we still don't seem to understand the difference between club and international football. Expecting the England side to have the same kind of fluid movement and tempo as a good club side is unrealistic.

And the knockout nature of the competition means that the best side doesnt always win. It is all very well demanding that we play better as long as we don't labour under the delusion that this will lead to better results.

I agree Southgate worked with our limitations. He also got things wrong but everybody does that to some extent.

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Originally Posted by pjlincs

Haven't all the current elite England players come through the Academy system?

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Probably true. Seems to be too late by then though, hence all the foreign players in the Premier League; more than half the total. For comparison, La Liga is over 80% Spanish.

And only in Germany do English players make the top ten foreign nationalities. How come we're not producing more of the players that ANYONE actually wants. Why is almost any random straniero we sign not only cheaper but also at least as competent as his local, homegrown counterparts.

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Originally Posted by Peter

As fans we still don't seem to understand the difference between club and international football. Expecting the England side to have the same kind of fluid movement and tempo as a good club side is unrealistic.

And the knockout nature of the competition means that the best side doesnt always win. It is all very well demanding that we play better as long as we don't labour under the delusion that this will lead to better results.

I agree Southgate worked with our limitations. He also got things wrong but everybody does that to some extent.

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It’s also true to say that it’s been quite some time since any of the elite managers coveted international roles. It’s nowhere near the pinnacle of the modern game and, these days, lends itself to those either on the way up, or halfway along the road towards retirement.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Probably true. Seems to be too late by then though, hence all the foreign players in the Premier League; more than half the total. For comparison, La Liga is over 80% Spanish.

And only in Germany do English players make the top ten foreign nationalities. How come we're not producing more of the players that ANYONE actually wants. Why is almost any random straniero we sign not only cheaper but also at least as competent as his local, homegrown counterparts.

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Is part of that not economics?

My Juve mate rates Calafiore but they couldn't spend £40m on a defender. {Would rather get Kiwior for half that.}

So no-one in Italy, France, Germany or Spain outside the big two would ever dream of paying the £70m CPFC want for that Guelhi or however it's spelled.

In the old days, the Frogs bought Hoddle/Waddle, the Wops Gazza/Ince/Platt etc.

Now it's the other way 'round.

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Originally Posted by 7sisters

It’s also true to say that it’s been quite some time since any of the elite managers coveted international roles. It’s nowhere near the pinnacle of the modern game and, these days, lends itself to those either on the way up, or halfway along the road towards retirement.

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More of them should give it a go on the way up, because it actually is the pinnacle of the game. It's one thing to win trophies with a club, but national legendary status, knighthoods etc. follow if you do that for your country.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

Is part of that not economics?

My Juve mate rates Calafiore but they couldn't spend £40m on a defender. {Would rather get Kiwior for half that.}

So no-one in Italy, France, Germany or Spain outside the big two would ever dream of paying the £70m CPFC want for that Guelhi or however it's spelled.

In the old days, the Frogs bought Hoddle/Waddle, the Wops Gazza/Ince/Platt etc.

Now it's the other way 'round.

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Although, possibly an exception, Bayern aren’t afraid to throw big money around when there’s a need.