Anyway, I can't get excited about football. My joy over the election is too fresh.

So is Corbyn, but it wasn’t those characteristics that kept him from power.

In this age of sound bite politics, I think she could conceivably cultivate a formidable persona that combined a doubling down on gender-based identity politics with a claim to be legitimately speaking for the working class.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Phillips is an intellectual and political lightweight who's never had to hold a portfolio and would get torn apart in the rough and tumble of front bench politics. She'd quickly be revealed for the opportunist publicity seeker she is. She's never been exposed to any actual scrutiny and her easy ride in the media would quickly come to an end.
I'd actually quite enjoy watching her destroyed by being given the poison chalice of the leadership.

Sadly, it probably won't happen. The membership and the PLP fúcking hate her. She's very popular among left-wing tories, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by WES

Know nothing about him but Jorge was on twitter hoping it never happened so I assume he must be really, really bad. :-)

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:nod: A man apparently untroubled by coherent thought who has the manner and speech of a camp bank teller.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

So is Corbyn, but it wasn’t those characteristics that kept him from power.

In this age of sound bite politics, I think she could conceivably cultivate a formidable persona that combined a doubling down on gender-based identity politics with a claim to be legitimately speaking for the working class.

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Yes. And he has been an unmitigated disaster.

Plus gender-based identity politics is not a vote winner and she's not even remotely working class.

EDIT: She is, in fact, a middle-class person's idealised notion of what a working class person is like - largely because she exaggerates her regional accent.

If it wasn’t for Brexit and Corbyn being forced by the membership to move to a 2nd ref position I suspect he’d now be PM.

She looks and sounds working class compared to Johnson. If Johnson doesn’t make good on his pledges to his new base he will be vulnerable against someone who can credibly claim to speak for the people he betrayed and comes without the albatross of Brexit or associations with Corbyn.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Yes. And he has been an unmitigated disaster.

Plus gender-based identity politics is not a vote winner and she's not even remotely working class.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

If it wasn’t for Brexit and Corbyn being forced by the membership to move to a 2nd ref position I suspect he’d now be PM.

She looks and sounds working class compared to Johnson. If Johnson doesn’t make good on his pledges to his new base he will be vulnerable against someone who can credibly claim to speak for the people he betrayed, without the albatross of Brexit or associations with Corbyn.

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I think you're wrong. All the feedback from the provincial doorsteps is that Brexit was almost secondary to a near-visceral dislike of Corbyn.

But I suspect much of that dislike took root once he started equivocating on Brexit and, specifically, refusing to take a position on whether he’d support his own deal, which was a masterclass in how to look like a man preparing to f*ck you over.

I reckon had he campaigned on a “new deal but no referendum” manifesto, a lot of labour leavers would have held their noses and voted for him.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I think you're wrong. All the feedback from the provincial doorsteps is that Brexit was almost secondary to a near-visceral dislike of Corbyn.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

If it wasn’t for Brexit and Corbyn being forced by the membership to move to a 2nd ref position I suspect he’d now be PM.

She looks and sounds working class compared to Johnson. If Johnson doesn’t make good on his pledges to his new base he will be vulnerable against someone who can credibly claim to speak for the people he betrayed and comes without the albatross of Brexit or associations with Corbyn.

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Effectively, You’ve just repeated Lavery and McDonnells view of the election result.

:rolleyes:

I don’t think it’s the whole story and it’s obviously laughable to say that Corbyn personally would have been a vote winner without Brexit, but I do think it’s conceivable that they could have won the election without the spectre of Brexit.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

But I suspect much of that dislike took root once he started equivocating on Brexit and, specifically, refusing to take a position on whether he’d support his own deal, which was a masterclass in how to look like a man preparing to f*ck you over.

I reckon had he campaigned on a “new deal but no referendum” manifesto, a lot of labour leavers would have held their noses and voted for him.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

But I suspect much of that dislike took root once he started equivocating on Brexit and, specifically, refusing to take a position on whether he’d support his own deal, which was a masterclass in how to look like a man preparing to f*ck you over.

I reckon had he campaigned on a “new deal but no referendum” manifesto, a lot of labour leavers would have held their noses and voted for him.

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No. Corbyn is not not PM because he was unfortunate enough to be around during Brexit. Indeed, Brexit gave him a boost in 2017 because Labour soaked up the anti-brexit protest vote and the traditional heartland pro-leave vote. Over two years of being terrible, he's become toxic as more of his personal and political shortcomings became more and more apparent.

Besides which, arguing that Corbyn might have become PM if it weren't for the most vexed political issue of the age is a joke of an argument. It's like saying Theresa May could have been the next Margaret Thatcher if it weren't for Brexit.

The whole point is that you want to elect someone who can deal with such issues.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

I don’t think it’s the whole story and it’s obviously laughable to say that Corbyn personally was a vote winner without Brexit, but I do think it’s conceivable that they could have won the election without the spectre of Brexit.

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OK, my view for what it's worth. Labour can only go for a leader who comes from their heartlands , so Midlands or North. Nobody up here feels connected to way the Labour paty have become over the last few years, so they need to go back to basics and reconnect with traditional voters. it will be a long job but the only way they can get back in power eventually.

The Tory party cannot ignore the North as they have done for years as they know that if they fail to deliver then these new voters will desert them in droves and will not return.

I do fear that Johnson is in this for himself and that the next 5 yrs will end up a ****fest for the UK.

by the way, i do believe I predicted the result all along :)