Is the knowledge that Gary Neville is touching his shrivelled little appendage with delight :-(
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Is the knowledge that Gary Neville is touching his shrivelled little appendage with delight :-(
Apparently he's predicted a few weeks ago that, while we would still ultimately prevail, Manchester City would overtake us once or twice along the way. Which I thought was awfully kind of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir C
Neville also said he thought MLS would be a better bet to replace Hincapi? than bringing on White and moving Timber across. I was thinking at that moment that MLS would be a better bet to bring into left midfield than Eze. Sadly I don't think he could have been any less ineffective as it turned out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir C
Too many changes and too early. I would have gone with Gyokeres and Martinelli first and given it ten minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by pjlincs
I know the midfield wasn't really firing but I had no real belief that Eze would make a difference.
All that said, I don't thino any of this would necessarily have worked. Our heads were totally scrambled. I couldn't see a way out. Nor could Arteta.
The 4 subs wouldn't have helped. It just looked like a panicked reaction. We still very nearly got ourselves out of the hole we'd dug. 9/10 Cunha doesn't hit it that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
One of those days. They hit two absolute screamers. But.... we dug our own grave.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Not overly worried about losing one game but the manner of the collapse is incredibly worrying. I am afraid I just dont believe that will be a one off. It's going to happen again.
Are we going to see the same mental collapse if we make it to a cup final?
Maybe it's just what we needed and at the right time. United were superb too - let's not forget that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
We can't attribute it to United being superb. Our last 3 results Loss, draw, draw and 2 of these are home games. We are in a rut of being completely toothless. I always worried this will happen as we are too reliant on on set pieces (regardless of supposedly being 2nd for open play goals). I don't think I've truly, consistently enjoyed the football we play. It's so slow and tiresome. There's no sexy eye of the needle football and our wingers are overrated as f**k bar Martinelli who actually has potential to be world class, not Saka who everyone blows for some reason. You lot must have forgotten Sanchez now that's what a world class winger looked like.
Apart from anything else, United were not superb. They scored two outrageous goals and that aside they created nothing other than the things we gifted them.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bunnell
We've been playing tightrope football all season and surviving on fine margins 90% of the time. And yes, more often than not the football is frustrating, dull and predictable.
In the last three games the pressure has got to us. In the first two we looked toothless. Yesterday we were just complete chaos from the minute we took the lead.
We've had problems all season but yesterday was really just about mental disintegration. We choked.
That ORC like defender will probably never score another goal like that in his life. I was reminded of that useless Dm that scored from 3O yards against us in the 4-4 at Newcastle. Only goal the useless c*nt probably ever scored :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
And if we're honest, leading the league by 4 points with Trossard Gyokeres and Saka as our best front 3 is an achievement.
Trossard is more useful than good, Gyokeres is still settling and Saka has been poor, certainly relative to his reputation and salary.
Maybe that's just who we are this season. Great at the back, capable of controlling a game from midfield but not all that up front.
:shrug:
And despite the ****ing over Zubi on here and in the press, he just makes far too many basic errors for me. Again, might just need to settle
Ah, the wake up call. Yeah, I'm not sure that really works here. Certainly didn't at half time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
He needs to fill the players with confidence that they can do this. I'm not sure how you do that when you coach tactics of cautuon and control. That breeds fear, not confidence.
I think that it's his modus operandi because of the lack of talent in the forward line at the club. He is on record as saying that he wants a side where two or three players can contribute 20 goals a season. Right now I'd be shocked if one of our players managed 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
However - important to realize that this was a necessity. It's cheaper to do a full rebuild from the back forwards since defenders are more abundant and therefore cheaper in the most part. Now comes the challenge of adding certainly a left forward, certainly a central forward and likely a right forward - won't be cheap but that's why we pay Berta.
Oliver Holt has a good piece in the Daily Mail whcih I agree with.... The likes of Rice & Gabriel are not really the types to shrink away from an opportunity to win big.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...gue-title.html
The trouble with that argument is you are talking about Saka, Martinelli, Trossard, Havertz. There is a reason why I i think they can contribute close to 20 goals each. And I think you know what that reason is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Arteta needs to ask himself why the stronger our squad gets, the fewer goals we score.
Last season killed Odegaard and Martinelli. This season Saka is really suffering. Why?
Yeah. Another player that gets knobbed off. He folds like a deck chair when a game is screaming for someone to step up. Spanish Mummy's boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by WES
And what is your take on that feckin dreadful song John?
I've said it before but this team NEEDS to win the league. I think if they win one, we can win 2 or 3 on the bounce. They just need to know they can actually do it and then I think the "handbrake" will come off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It is really an achievement? Or is it just that everyone else is ****?Quote:
Originally Posted by WES
I think most of us would accept that we were ****e last season and hugely underperformed, trailing Liverpool all season.
Do you know how many points we had at this stage last seaĺson? 47. We'd still be top this season.
We are just 3 points better than ****e..... :-(
Time to stop believing our own hype and admit that we have problems. And if we dont address them, we are winning **** all.
Either way, I dont want to keep on watching this ****.
I think the handbrake needs to come off first.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
I would feel so gay singing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman
We can't play like City or Liverpool because we simply do not have the talent in forward areas as them. That's nothing to be ashamed off but a more expansive brand of football (coupled with the low blocks we face) would mean losing a lot more games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
But if that's what makes you happy then great.
Total *******s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Two years ago we switched to a more expansive brand of football. We won a lot more games, scored a lot more goals and finsihed with a lot more points with a smaller squad and the same forwards. The year before that, the same with an even smaller squad and no Havertz.
We didn't win the league in either season but we were a damn sight better than we are now.
The low block excuse is rubbish as well. Every good side faces it and every good side finds a way to tackle it. Bad sides make excuses.
And let us say you are right and we just dont have the forwards. Who answers for that? We spent nearly 180 million on forwards last summer.
That's a good question actually. Why do you think it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
The difference is minimal but still. 42-17 and first place this season; last season, 47-17 and second place and we'd just lost 1-0 at Molineux.
I think it is because Arteta over coaches. The games are so heavily scripted, with triggers as the ball goes into certain areas. The press triggers at a certain point and beyond that we go into low block.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
It is rehearsed, predictable, repeatable. And the opposition know it. This is why he loves set pieces- repeatable, controllable, rehearsed.
He's made us hard to beat but fairly easy to play against. Harder to watch but easier to see coming.
I've said it all season- you cannot win the league playing like this. Or at the very least, I've never seen anyone do it.
Adding new players makes little difference. The structure and approach is the same. Abd it hugely works against creative players. By the time the ball gets to them the space has gone and the opposition are nicely set.
Yes, I agree with every word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Interesting that the top three coaches right now are all notorious micro-managers. Only difference is Pep has better players and is not obsessed with set pieces like Mikel and Emery (although perhaps better players is WHY he's not obsessed with set pieces).
This is the key thing. If i am right, then giving Arteta more and better players will only make it worse. He'll just have a group of players even more capable of doing what he asks.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
When we had a smaller squad and some loose cannons we played better football. :-(
With worse results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Maybe Capello's Milan is the blueprint. Great team, brilliant players, terrible football and loads of trophies; so it CAN be done :-\
I dont think the results were worse. Three seasons ago we finished with 84 points. Then 89. Then last season, 74. This season we may not break 80 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
It is difficult to argue that we are moving in the right direction.
Not at all. You're missing the point. We are trying to best a LITERAL juggernaut, Jeff!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Four points ahead at this stage is outstanding. And everything is still in our hands.
But we're only ahead of them because they've been ****......Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
That's league football, that's how it works!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Nobody gets 114 points.
Or 115 charges.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Well quite. Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
But our Summer Supermarket Sweep might actually have helped their case. At least in the public mind :-\
Have a look at this. We have to face deeper blocks than anyone in the league. Therefore we require players with outstanding technical qualities in tight areas; which we are not hugely blessed with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
So we have to rely on the current brand of football to score goals.
https://x.com/themagic_tophat/status...231394976?s=12
Heavily flawed data, and i will tell you why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
We take so bloody long to move the ball forward that a pub side would have time to get back in position. So of course their average defensive interactions are deeper.
Show the data from the second half of 2023/4, where teams were just as scared but we moved the ball quickly. I promise you it will be a marked difference.
Saka, Odegaard, Trossard, Havertz.... they dont have the technical quality to play in tight spaces? Tell me, who does then?
It's a bull**** excuse to justify our modest returns. Those returns are caused by overly cautious football, not by some tactical conspiracy on the part of the Premier league.
Talk to fans coming out of the ground, they all say the same thing. Negative, playing not to lose, playing with fear, failing to react in games......
Mostly victorious too though, and largely unbeaten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
You know, the reason Bayern have won so many Bundesliga titles that nobody knows who has won the second most, and Real Madrid have won nearly half of the La Liga titles available since that league was established is precisely because they've been able to gaslight everyone else into trying to play like them but with far worse resources.
Performances, rubbish football, anti-football, set pieces, long balls; we are NOT Real Madrid or Bayern Munich or even Manchester City or Liverpool.
I loved George's sides. But the sides that won titles were not negative. They were strong defensively, but not negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
I could forgive the dull football if I thought it was our best route to success. It isnt.
Fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
When Alan Smith was winning Golden Boots, his competitors were Tony Cottee,
John Aldridge, Gary Lineker, Dean Saunders, and Ian Wright at Crystal Palace. Not exactly Europe's goalscoring elite.
Different times, different times.
To me that was Europe's goalscoring elite....Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Yes, me too. But foreigners have ruined the game for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
You can see for yourself though, that what George had was basically Mikel's team but with a Haaland upfront.
We're not all that far away :-)