to take a bunch of good players and make them look shĂ*t.
wd Gareth for carrying on the tradition of England managers...
And. That should surely be the end of Kane in an England shirt.
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to take a bunch of good players and make them look shĂ*t.
wd Gareth for carrying on the tradition of England managers...
And. That should surely be the end of Kane in an England shirt.
Sadly he's a loser,Quote:
Originally Posted by IUFG
Sucessful in terms of earning and career but a loser. famous for being one.
I see it's been twisted around to say Spain were just too good (they are good) but when all you do is have pickford hoof the ball up to Kane for most of the game you will never get anywhere.
if he wasn't with the England squad I would have had him down as a suspect in the failed Trump assasination.
Said it for years, he's been carried by the players. Absolutely clueless as a manager and when he ends up back in club football it'll properly show.Quote:
Originally Posted by IUFG
Pickford doesn't even hoof the ball WELL David Seaman up in the seats wouldn't have been impressed; HE made Route 1 an art form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Vegas
Gareth's done alright, considering nobody fancies him. Fairplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by IUFG
It's the others what want worrying about; what's THEIR excuse.
Fabio Capello, can you hear me. Sven-Göran Eriksson.
completely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
it appears he tried to make everything go through Rice in midfield. As good as Declan is, he is not a playmaker.
Still, that's the international football bollĂłcks over with. Until September... :rolleyes:
not sure if you are referring to Southgate or Kane, there. Though, it applies equally to both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Vegas
We seem to have reverted to our usual position of believing we have the best players in the world and it is all the manager's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
The problem with that argument is that it is *******s. We have some very good players but so does everybody else. We are still rather one dimensional in midfield and below the best with possession
The problem with blaming the manager is that they get so little time with the players. Modern coaches couldn't translate their club football into international football as they can't prepare the players physically.
And those calling us too defensive.... look how easily spain spiced through the more attacking line up once it reached 1-1.
Well, according to Rafael Van der Vaart, poor old declan rice is in fact 'useless' and west ham saw us coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by IUFG
Last season must have been a bit of a blip 😁
Southgate pretty much ballsed it up before the plane landed. We offered nothing resembling creativity in midfield. Mainoo did well but ran out steam and ideas quite quickly. Either way. Spain offered Rodri, Carvajal and Ruiz. Proper men v boys stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Trippier was seriously past his sell by date. Saka had no one to play off and was mobbed by two or three defenders whenever he received the ball.
We offered zero, and I do mean zero attacking threat from the left wing.
Oh, and I still couldn’t work out what Southgate’s brief was for Foden and Bellingham. ?
Felt a bit for Foden, as you say, no clear plan, just roam around and do something.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7sisters
Wont have helped him having the pundits labelling him one of the best number 10s in the world when, in fact, he isn't even the best number 10 at his club, or for his country, isn't even in the top 3 in the premier league and hardly ever plays there.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Moving Bellingham back alongside Rice might have been an option but I do think the problem goes back to an unfit Harry Kane. With him up front we couldn't press high and couldn't get players running past him.
The essential problem we've always had is that, in Britain, sport and especially soccerball, is for everyone and not only those who are actually any good at it and most importantly WANT to play. Our best players have always been "good enough" but we're selecting from a pool who are mostly nowhere near good enough and not interested anyway and further on whom we are forced to waste an awful lot of valuable time, energy and resources. It's all good fun and everything but it does not help when trying to emulate the elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
All-day schooling kills us. Kick them all out at lunchtime so they can go to properly organised clubs where those that want to and show promise can get at least semi-professional coaching, in whatever they want to do. How else to explain generations of English players all exhibiting that essential hesitancy on the ball and unfamiliarity in possession as a team. They simply haven't played enough and lack intimacy with the mechanics of a game of football.
The whole nonsense is rather like me visiting Crufts searching for decent hounds to buy. Out of the twenty-thousand or so entries, perhaps three or four of them could actually turn a hare as the best hunting dogs NEVER go to Crufts because they spend their entire lives out in the fields actually hunting and proving themselves, not posing in a show ring.
Gareth actually did a fantastic job in the circumstances, he understood our limitations and made the best out of them :-)
Haven't all the current elite England players come through the Academy system?Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
As fans we still don't seem to understand the difference between club and international football. Expecting the England side to have the same kind of fluid movement and tempo as a good club side is unrealistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
And the knockout nature of the competition means that the best side doesnt always win. It is all very well demanding that we play better as long as we don't labour under the delusion that this will lead to better results.
I agree Southgate worked with our limitations. He also got things wrong but everybody does that to some extent.
Probably true. Seems to be too late by then though, hence all the foreign players in the Premier League; more than half the total. For comparison, La Liga is over 80% Spanish.Quote:
Originally Posted by pjlincs
And only in Germany do English players make the top ten foreign nationalities. How come we're not producing more of the players that ANYONE actually wants. Why is almost any random straniero we sign not only cheaper but also at least as competent as his local, homegrown counterparts.
It’s also true to say that it’s been quite some time since any of the elite managers coveted international roles. It’s nowhere near the pinnacle of the modern game and, these days, lends itself to those either on the way up, or halfway along the road towards retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Is part of that not economics?Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
My Juve mate rates Calafiore but they couldn't spend ÂŁ40m on a defender. {Would rather get Kiwior for half that.}
So no-one in Italy, France, Germany or Spain outside the big two would ever dream of paying the ÂŁ70m CPFC want for that Guelhi or however it's spelled.
In the old days, the Frogs bought Hoddle/Waddle, the Wops Gazza/Ince/Platt etc.
Now it's the other way 'round.
More of them should give it a go on the way up, because it actually is the pinnacle of the game. It's one thing to win trophies with a club, but national legendary status, knighthoods etc. follow if you do that for your country.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7sisters
Although, possibly an exception, Bayern aren’t afraid to throw big money around when there’s a need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
And national ridicule and vilification follows if you don't, which is the reality for almost all international managers.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
The one problem with football becoming more technical and better coached at club level is that it makes it even harder to replicate at international level. Klopp could not be Klopp in an international role- his approach relies on the physical conditioning of his players to be able to cope with a certain tempo and there is no way he can manage this with players he doesn't oversee.
The best international managers are those that can get across a simple tactical approach to players quickly. Arteta, for example, has many strengths as a coach but this doesn't currently appear to be one of them. Our new recruits tend to be slightly baffled on arrival by an overload of information.
As P says, we mostly overrate our players. Maybe the big clubs abroad think he's not that special, worth that money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
When they had the one foreigner-rule in Italy, it was worth putting up the big bucks for special talents like the ones you mention. For players like Brady, Bergkamp and Bendtner too.
That'll surely change though. The whole UEFA-badge malarkey will bring even more of the tactical and preparation hegemony that's been creeping in. The gap between club and country football must close and eventually disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Even now, the England team under Southgate might challenge for Europe through the Premier League. They don't give much away, decent set-pieces and occasional moments of real attacking quality? Reminiscent of dear old George in the Cup Winners' Cup.
I don't think it is that our players aren't good. It is just they are good at the wrong things.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Exactly this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
If that is what we are going for then I think Sean Dyche is the man :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
I think part of the stick Southgate got was because English fans still don't appreciate a tactical and containing approach. They find it boring and prefer us to be rushing out of the trenches screaming at the enemy. I have seen plenty of people saying that they would rather see this brand of football with worse results (which is ridiculous, by the way). We pride ourselves on playing with passion and spirit, not sneaky, underhand, tactical nonsense.
In other words, we need to grow up. :-)
Or rather they are not good at the right things.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
And when we find one who is we misunderstand them. We all thought Paul Gascoigne was brilliant because of the dribbles, and drinking, and spectacular stuff. His real genius was that he was capable of doing everything, including mastery of possession. That night when we drew in Italy under Hoddle he gave an absolute masterclass in midfield ball retention.
Message reported to Big Ange and his WHL worshippers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
It’ll all end in tears etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
No it's not.
1. I might actually watch a few mins of Eng if it was all midget no.10 sexy Wengerball.
2. Arsenal players in Eng team have a longer holiday and pre-season.
3. We can abuse all the non-AFC Eng players for letting their country down.
Winners all round.
See, the problem with people like you is you only care about Arsenal. You couldn't actually give a **** what happens to England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
I'm the same :-)
:nod: By Monday, I was cool with losing in the final. I'm still pissed off about 101 different Arsenal defeats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Not to mention the 115
Bit unfair, P. I do follow the England test team - but not to the extent where I'd wish the Arse never to win the league ever again as long as we one won Ashes down under like certain {seemingly former} Awimbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Don't. Still can't get over the '90-'91 title winning season. Losing 2-1 at Chelsea when TA6 was banged up for drink driving and an injury meant we had to play Hillier at CH {despite us having Adams, Bould, O'Leary and Linnigan in the squad.} Or the Gazza free-kick semi-final.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Avoided defeat in the first and we'd have had another Invincibles. Beaten the Scum in the second and another double. Both and it would have been an Invincible Double like Preston North End in the first ever season.
'88 League Cup final also still hurts.
1999 should have been an Arsenal double, not a Manc treble.
I couldn't even tell you who was playing on Sunday other than B and Dec.
Oh, hold on a minute. I was talking about football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
Obviously we all care deeply for the England test team. Not the same thing at all :-)
I'm with you on 88. I was there. Fuming! ****ing Luton :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
Amused me yesterday at the end of play, Sky trying to say the West Indies had had a decent day because they dropped catches, so therefore created chances and England were 350 odd for 5 and restricted them to just the 416 :hehe: Straw clutchingQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Poor chap. That missed pelanty. I watched on TV and they interviewed Kenny Samson beforehand asking how he felt about having won as captain last year but now having lost the armband to TA6, and he said it didn't matter, they all just wanted the best for the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
If we'd won that, TA6 would have captained us to cup wins in 3 different decades as well as to titles.
It would have been 4 titles, 3 FA Cups, 2 LCs and one European. Stopped him getting double digits of silverware lifted.
Agree with you about the test team. When I were a lad my club team, Middlesex, had 5 players in the Eng squad. Gatts, Downton, Emburey, Edmonds and Norman Cowans. Neil Williams also played one test. And I was happy with that. But imagine if our five best AFC players missed half the season playing for Ingerlund?
They were scared of batting and getting bowled out for 150 again. At least this way they would have a target to try to beat in their first innings.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Had they held the catches, got us out for 100 less and managed to be say 40-1 at the close, it would have been a great day for them.
Re: 350-5 to 419 a/o. I do worry about our tail. We used to have Bres, Swann and Broad {who was averaging 29 when we got to world no.1 vs India at home} at 8, 9, 10.
In Aus, having an 8-10 who score 20-30 between them vs the 2011 team scoring around 75 is the difference between winning and losing, ceteris paribus.
Woakes can bat, Wood can get you a 20+ score, not sure about Atkinson though and Bashir is a proper 11Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
Agree about Wood. Test ave of 16 isn't too bad. But if we're dropping Jimmy to plan for the Ashes, Woakes at home averages 33 with bat and 22 with ball at home but 22 and 52 away.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Jofra's FC average of 23 is under 8 in tests.
Atkinson has a FC ave of 20 with 3 50s in 27 innings, but cf Jofra. Ganpati willing I'm wrong but I doubt he'll average 20 in Aus.
So having Wood at 8 averaging 16 and then 9-10-Jack scoring sod all isn't ideal.
Now Stokes is back, we really could do with another all-rounder. If only we could find an Imran Khan.....
Like we all have wk-batsmen, you really want a spinner who can bat at 8. Makes such a difference.