PhilosophyWIMB: How omnipotent is your deity?

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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Originally Posted by Ash

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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Yes, yes He can. However, and here's the important point, He chooses not to. Why? Because He moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.

I flirted with atheism for a bit a couple of years ago, but I kept getting troubled with plagues of frogs, boils and general pestilence, so I took that to be a message and went back to believing.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Yes, yes He can. However, and here's the important point, He chooses not to. Why? Because He moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.

I flirted with atheism for a bit a couple of years ago, but I kept getting troubled with plagues of frogs, boils and general pestilence, so I took that to be a message and went back to believing.

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bantering God off.

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

bantering God off.

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You should get some today and there's every possibility that tomorrow and Friday will give us apocalyptic snow. Oh yes.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

You should get some today and there's every possibility that tomorrow and Friday will give us apocalyptic snow. Oh yes.

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As usual we'll get a few flakes :-)

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Originally Posted by PSRB

As usual we'll get a few flakes :-)

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Other side of the hills and we have got a few inches here (pfnar pfnarr), and bucketing down. Delayed me getting inmto work by a whole 20 mins

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Yes, yes He can. However, and here's the important point, He chooses not to. Why? Because He moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.

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But it means comparing every single snow crystal in the history of time and space with every other crystal. That's a lot of computational power, man. Something with that much zing should have worked out a way for his favoured beings to export their depleted energy-and-nutrition source matter without leaving dingleberries around their bumhole.

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Originally Posted by Pokster

Other side of the hills and we have got a few inches here (pfnar pfnarr), and bucketing down. Delayed me getting inmto work by a whole 20 mins

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No snow and my train was still stuck outside the city for 50 minutes this morning :furious:

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Originally Posted by Ash

But it means comparing every single snow crystal in the history of time and space with every other crystal. That's a lot of computational power, man. Something with that much zing should have worked out a way for his favoured beings to export their depleted energy-and-nutrition source matter without leaving dingleberries around their bumhole.

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He gave us free will, a. It is our choice whether to suffer with tuggets.

A diet rich in fibre could be your friend here.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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I think the point is that any sensible deity doesn't bother with things like snow and sand. My deity operates in a different paradigm altogether, that's how you reconcile it, you see.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

As usual we'll get a few flakes :-)

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:nono: it went bonkers overnight down here. 6-8 inches [insert your mum gag here]

Why the Highways department decided not to grit or plough the main arterial roads remains a mystery. *****s.

Still, I made it into the office, unlike 25% of the staff :lightweights:

Deity news: there isn't any gods, you folklore loving retards.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

No snow and my train was still stuck outside the city for 50 minutes this morning :furious:

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My train was delayed for five minutes this morning - but at -17 outside I wasn't really in the mood to leave it anyway

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

My train was delayed for five minutes this morning

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5 minutes delay? Not very German, is it?

I am sure the person responsible was shot.

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Originally Posted by IUFG

:nono: it went bonkers overnight down here. 6-8 inches [insert your mum gag here]

Why the Highways department decided not to grit or plough the main arterial roads remains a mystery. *****s.

Still, I made it into the office, unlike 25% of the staff :lightweights:

Deity news: there isn't any gods, you folklore loving retards.

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Whereabouts are you, i? Much of London is about to get dumped on.

Suffolk, sc...

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Originally Posted by IUFG

5 minutes delay? Not very German, is it?

I am sure the person responsible was shot.

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Actually my line is a bit **** normally - except when Bayern are playing then it there 150 trains an hour

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Originally Posted by IUFG

Suffolk, sc...

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You should be getting some too.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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I seem to be mostly worshipping the almighty hot toddy at the moment. Just need to catch some sort of cold now, I suppose :-\

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Originally Posted by Ash

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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I am a Monodeist, so I win every time....!

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Originally Posted by The Insider

I am a Monodeist, so I win every time....!

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You drive a Mondeo? :driving:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

You should get some today and there's every possibility that tomorrow and Friday will give us apocalyptic snow. Oh yes.

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the merest dusting for me. Why am I being punished for your blasphemies :-(

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Whereabouts are you, i? Much of London is about to get dumped on.

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It's happening. :snow:

data processing tasks of similar profundity :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Ash

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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Originally Posted by Monty92

AI will soon enough be capable of performing
data processing tasks of similar profundity

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An AI can't even process a kangaroo jumping around when it's trying to drive a car, let alone calculate, design, store and compare infinity to the power of infinity. You need a new hobby imo. Watching 22 blokes chase a pig bladder round a field, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

I think the point is that any sensible deity doesn't bother with things like snow and sand. My deity operates in a different paradigm altogether, that's how you reconcile it, you see.

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Yes, I imagine that your deity is known in some quarters as Blowhard, the god of Smug. :-)

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Originally Posted by Ash

But it means comparing every single snow crystal in the history of time and space with every other crystal. That's a lot of computational power, man. Something with that much zing should have worked out a way for his favoured beings to export their depleted energy-and-nutrition source matter without leaving dingleberries around their bumhole.

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Seems to me you’ve failed to take ineffability into account, a. For a puny animal like you to attempt to comprehend God’s actions or reasoning is like a woodlouse trying to make sense of a particle physicist. It’s impossible because the mind of God is ineffable.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

data processing tasks of similar profundity :shrug:

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When? Thus far, AI has managed to achieve approximately the intellect of a cockroach.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Never mind counting the grains of sand in a desert, or trivial stuff like that. Can He empirically verify that every snow crystal is different, as per the theory? Much harder job that one.

I have a feeling this will get as many comments as my post about snooker. :tumbleweed:

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Deity's are a figment of one's imagination, aren't they? I guess that would mean that they are as omnipotent as one's imagination might want them to be?

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Originally Posted by Burney

Seems to me you’ve failed to take ineffability into account, a. For a puny animal like you to attempt to comprehend God’s actions or reasoning is like a woodlouse trying to make sense of a particle physicist. It’s impossible because the mind of God is ineffable.

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Ineffability is just one of the magic words in the theist's Toolbox of Cheating:

"Don't give me logic, it doesn't count because your reason is invalid because God."
So how do you 'know' he's ineffable, eh? Oh yeah, because you said so and your mind is just as feeble as mine.
"Because he is God, who is by definition all the things I want him to be".
Circular logic, another favourite.

You'll be coming at me with transubstantiation next.

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Originally Posted by Burney

When? Thus far, AI has managed to achieve approximately the intellect of a cockroach.

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It's at moments like this that he really embarrasses himself.

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Originally Posted by Alberto Balsam Rodriguez

Deity's are a figment of one's imagination, aren't they? I guess that would mean that they are as omnipotent as one's imagination might want them to be?

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Must you always take everything so literally, Alberto? We can pretend.

What, you chaps think we're just gonna stand still?

You think AI isn't going to change the world in ways we litewwwwally can't comprehend, Jeff?

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Originally Posted by Burney

When? Thus far, AI has managed to achieve approximately the intellect of a cockroach.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Ineffability is just one of the magic words in the theist's Toolbox of Cheating:

"Don't give me logic, it doesn't count because your reason is invalid because God."
So how do you 'know' he's ineffable, eh? Oh yeah, because you said so and your mind is just as feeble as mine.
"Because he is God, who is by definition all the things I want him to be".
Circular logic, another favourite.

You'll be coming at me with transubstantiation next.

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I can’t help it that you’re so monstrously arrogant/lacking in imagination as to be unable to allow/comprehend the possibility of an intelligence so vastly greater than yours that you cannot possibly comprehend it, a. :shrug:
It seems to me, however, that that is your failing, not that of believers.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

What, you chaps think we're just gonna stand still?

You think AI isn't going to change the world in ways we litewwwwally can't comprehend, Jeff?

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Oh, no. I was simply taking issue with your use of the word ‘soon’

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Originally Posted by Burney

Oh, no. I was simply taking issue with your use of the word ‘soon’

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:rolleyes: I can’t help it that you’re so monstrously arrogant/lacking in imagination as to be unable to allow/comprehend the possibility of "soon" being beyond your own irrelevant mortality.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

What, you chaps think we're just gonna stand still?

You think AI isn't going to change the world in ways we litewwwwally can't comprehend, Jeff?

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Only if we believe and have faith in it, m

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Originally Posted by Monty92

:rolleyes: I can’t help it that you’re so monstrously arrogant/lacking in imagination as to be unable to allow/comprehend the possibility of "soon" being beyond your own irrelevant mortality.

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I do apologise. Just for the sake of clarity, the next time you use the word ‘soon’, would you be so kind as to clarify whether you’re using it in a human, historical or geological sense? Thanks awfully. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Monty92

What, you chaps think we're just gonna stand still?

You think AI isn't going to change the world in ways we litewwwwally can't comprehend, Jeff?

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You might as well posit that 'soon' an AI could do a better job at managing this group of players than Arsene Wenger?

The steam engine changed the world dramatically, as has 'regular' computing. It's what technology does. Don't underestimate the human mind though just because computers can count faster than we can and execute pattern-recognition algorithms.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I can’t help it that you’re so monstrously arrogant/lacking in imagination as to be unable to allow/comprehend the possibility of an intelligence so vastly greater than yours that you cannot possibly comprehend it, a. :shrug:
It seems to me, however, that that is your failing, not that of believers.

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I'm grateful to Monty now for bringing AI into this thread because we are now comparing three types of intelligence. One of which is real, empirically experienced by all, measurable in some ways, and with the whole of history to analyse it's outputs for good and ill.

The other two are both hypothetical, and at opposite extremes in different directions from the one real intelligence we know. One might one day come into being as something other than a conjuring trick (which contemporary AI is), the other has apparently always been there and is what we project a fantasy extrapolation of ourselves onto, bestowing it with any and all super-human powers we can imagine.

It is not lack of imagination or an excess of arrogance that drives my position, but a lack of evidence. (We could speculate about alien or animal intelligence too but ultimately to no end)

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Originally Posted by Ash

You might as well posit that 'soon' an AI could do a better job at managing this group of players than Arsene Wenger?

The steam engine changed the world dramatically, as has 'regular' computing. It's what technology does. Don't underestimate the human mind though just because computers can count faster than we can and execute pattern-recognition algorithms.

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It is by not underestimating the human mind that AI should worry us all. It is, after all, the ingenuity of the human mind that, for good or for ill, will allow the potential of AI to expand beyond our imagination.

I heard a nice analogy recently. Imagine if dogs had invented humans. In the eyes of dogs, on balance this would seem to have worked out very well, given how most dog owners worship their dogs. But what would happen if we found out that all dogs carried a virus that could kill off humans?

We'd kill all the dogs, without batting an eyelid. Our hitherto emotional attachment to them would be rendered utterly irrelevant.

So what happens when humans create AI that sees us in a similar way? And then they realise we represent an existential threat to them (say, by virtue of our ability to flick them on and off)> There wouldn't even an emotional hurdle for them to jump in deciding whether or not to destroy us.