VAR is useless, but.....

[Peter]

That goal was pretty much our fault. Should never have happened. They all switched off assuming the ball was out of play. When they switch back on, White is far too slow getting out to put pressure on the cross, and Raya loses his bearings, creeping ahead of his front post, again!

If anyone was assuming that VAR would sort it out they just haven't been watching this season :-)

Thought the Havertz challenge was idiotic but not a red. I am still stunned by the notion that Bruno's whack on Jorginho's head could be considered anything other than violent conduct. But then again, VAR was never going to send him off for that after Newcastle's reaction to the Havertz yellow.

Newcastle really are a deeply unpleasant team and they might want to shut up about racism after the suspicious booing of our black players. I hear Jorginho refused to shake hands with them. Good :-)

[7sisters]

That goal was pretty much our fault. Should never have happened. They all switched off assuming the ball was out of play. When they switch back on, White is far too slow getting out to put pressure on the cross, and Raya loses his bearings, creeping ahead of his front post, again!

If anyone was assuming that VAR would sort it out they just haven't been watching this season :-)

Thought the Havertz challenge was idiotic but not a red. I am still stunned by the notion that Bruno's whack on Jorginho's head could be considered anything other than violent conduct. But then again, VAR was never going to send him off for that after Newcastle's reaction to the Havertz yellow.

Newcastle really are a deeply unpleasant team and they might want to shut up about racism after the suspicious booing of our black players. I hear Jorginho refused to shake hands with them. Good :-)

Arteta’s got a real dilemma on his hands with Raya. Pride & Process will probably afford him a few more games but his form is a concern, set against the backdrop of being a supposed upgrade.
Ability aside, he can’t overlook the commanding presence of Ramsdale and the confidence it reflects upon the back four.
I’d like him to cut his losses before Ramsdale’s dissolution becomes irreversible.
I never thought I’d say this but we’re also really missing Xhaka.

[WES]

That goal was pretty much our fault. Should never have happened. They all switched off assuming the ball was out of play. When they switch back on, White is far too slow getting out to put pressure on the cross, and Raya loses his bearings, creeping ahead of his front post, again!

If anyone was assuming that VAR would sort it out they just haven't been watching this season :-)

Thought the Havertz challenge was idiotic but not a red. I am still stunned by the notion that Bruno's whack on Jorginho's head could be considered anything other than violent conduct. But then again, VAR was never going to send him off for that after Newcastle's reaction to the Havertz yellow.

Newcastle really are a deeply unpleasant team and they might want to shut up about racism after the suspicious booing of our black players. I hear Jorginho refused to shake hands with them. Good :-)

Not sure how anyone can analyse the goal without mentioning Gabriel’s part in it. Wasn’t that long ago that he wasn’t in the team and someone on here had him the second coming of Baresi. He should have cleared the ball when it we first played into the box, it was Sunday league defending. Then he wasn’t strong enough to head it clear. Do I think he was fouled? Yes, but he still should have dealt with it anyway.

Agreed on Newcastle, vile team of c*nts.

[Peter]

Arteta’s got a real dilemma on his hands with Raya. Pride & Process will probably afford him a few more games but his form is a concern, set against the backdrop of being a supposed upgrade.
Ability aside, he can’t overlook the commanding presence of Ramsdale and the confidence it reflects upon the back four.
I’d like him to cut his losses before Ramsdale’s dissolution becomes irreversible.
I never thought I’d say this but we’re also really missing Xhaka.

Xhaka leaving was a surprise but the problem is how bad his replacement is. Havertz has been awful so far and it leaves the outstanding Declan Rice trying to do two jobs at once. I suspect there might need to be more investment in the midfield next summer.

We are stuck with Raya, I'm afraid. He will slowly improve as, despite all evidence so far, he is actually a good keeper.

[Peter]

Not sure how anyone can analyse the goal without mentioning Gabriel’s part in it. Wasn’t that long ago that he wasn’t in the team and someone on here had him the second coming of Baresi. He should have cleared the ball when it we first played into the box, it was Sunday league defending. Then he wasn’t strong enough to head it clear. Do I think he was fouled? Yes, but he still should have dealt with it anyway.

Agreed on Newcastle, vile team of c*nts.

True, although when the ball came in he was the only defender not standing like a statue. Six defenders in the box when Willock retrieved that ball......

I don't think you can 'be strong' when stooping to head a ball. A small nudge in the back is going to shove you under it.

[PSRB]

Xhaka leaving was a surprise but the problem is how bad his replacement is. Havertz has been awful so far and it leaves the outstanding Declan Rice trying to do two jobs at once. I suspect there might need to be more investment in the midfield next summer.

We are stuck with Raya, I'm afraid. He will slowly improve as, despite all evidence so far, he is actually a good keeper.

I thought Havertz actually had a decent game, certainly far from our poorest player. The tackle that got 3 of their players booked was also very amusing.

Raya, just makes me nervous. I don't like keepers that punch rather than catch the ball, it usually just invites pressure back on.

[Peter]

I thought Havertz actually had a decent game, certainly far from our poorest player. The tackle that got 3 of their players booked was also very amusing.

Raya, just makes me nervous. I don't like keepers that punch rather than catch the ball, it usually just invites pressure back on.

At least he punched away from goal this time :-)

The absence of Xhaka has left Martinelli quite isolated on the left. Yesterday he was given the ball plenty of times in wide areas but with nobody making the run inside him. The one time he had support we played through them. I'm not sure if Havertz is supposed to be hitting those areas or not but he certainly doesnt do it.

[pjlincs]

From The Guardian:

VAR furore takes heat off Raya
Picking through the wreckage of Arteta’s attack on VAR, it is worth remembering none of his anger would have been required had David Raya simply claimed Joe Willock’s cross. Arteta’s call to drop Aaron Ramsdale in favour of Raya was invariably going to invite pressure, and with every game it is hard to shake the notion that he has manifested a problem that did not need solving. Newcastle made life difficult for Raya from the off, Callum Wilson hounding the goalkeeper inside the first minute. Of the three VAR checks that followed Gordon’s contentious winner, perhaps the most surprising verdict was Joelinton being cleared for his push on Gabriel Magalhães. Regardless, while Arteta rails at Premier League officials, his own decision-making should also face scrutiny.

[7sisters]

From The Guardian:

VAR furore takes heat off Raya
Picking through the wreckage of Arteta’s attack on VAR, it is worth remembering none of his anger would have been required had David Raya simply claimed Joe Willock’s cross. Arteta’s call to drop Aaron Ramsdale in favour of Raya was invariably going to invite pressure, and with every game it is hard to shake the notion that he has manifested a problem that did not need solving. Newcastle made life difficult for Raya from the off, Callum Wilson hounding the goalkeeper inside the first minute. Of the three VAR checks that followed Gordon’s contentious winner, perhaps the most surprising verdict was Joelinton being cleared for his push on Gabriel Magalhães. Regardless, while Arteta rails at Premier League officials, his own decision-making should also face scrutiny.

Raya has some parallels with Havertz. Both, so far , failing to deliver on Arteta’s upgrade plan.
One at the expense of a fans favourite, the other at the expense of £65m.
I also agree with Peter that we’re probably stuck with both for sometime.
A knee jerk reaction would seriously devalue Arteta’s credibility at this stage, with Havertz there’s some margin for tinkering given the squad alternatives. Raya, however, is a binary choice.

[WES]

Raya has some parallels with Havertz. Both, so far , failing to deliver on Arteta’s upgrade plan.
One at the expense of a fans favourite, the other at the expense of £65m.
I also agree with Peter that we’re probably stuck with both for sometime.
A knee jerk reaction would seriously devalue Arteta’s credibility at this stage, with Havertz there’s some margin for tinkering given the squad alternatives. Raya, however, is a binary choice.

As Arteta seems to have recognised Zinny's flaws at LB, I find myself wondering why he isn't tried in the Havertz position. He plays in midfield for the Ukraine and to great effect the times I've watched him there.

Which was once :-)

[PSRB]

As Arteta seems to have recognised Zinny's flaws at LB, I find myself wondering why he isn't tried in the Havertz position. He plays in midfield for the Ukraine and to great effect the times I've watched him there.

Which was once :-)

I have said this previously. It was against Scotland, though ;-)

[Peter]

I have said this previously. It was against Scotland, though ;-)

What is becoming clear is the changes have disrupted the entire team. We are just not functioning with the same fluency as last year and we look unbalanced in midfield. Although we do seem more controlled, we are still making the silly mistakes that cost goals.

Odegaard and Partey would make a big difference if we can get them fit. But it is now becoming pretty clear that a title challenge this season is out of the question. Some will be really disappointed with that but I'm afraid it is where we are.

[Peter]

As Arteta seems to have recognised Zinny's flaws at LB, I find myself wondering why he isn't tried in the Havertz position. He plays in midfield for the Ukraine and to great effect the times I've watched him there.

Which was once :-)

He might do less damage there but he is still so sloppy with possession. I find him incredibly irritating.

[PSRB]

He might do less damage there but he is still so sloppy with possession. I find him incredibly irritating.

:nod: I also think the better teams have worked out how to play against him as well

[Peter]

:nod: I also think the better teams have worked out how to play against him as well

Yep. I think he has also been affected by the confusion in our midfield and the loss of Xhaka. It all means another chance for Tomiyasu, which is nice :-)

Teams have already worked out how to play against Raya. Close him down quickly and always cross high to the far post :-(

[7sisters]

What is becoming clear is the changes have disrupted the entire team. We are just not functioning with the same fluency as last year and we look unbalanced in midfield. Although we do seem more controlled, we are still making the silly mistakes that cost goals.

Odegaard and Partey would make a big difference if we can get them fit. But it is now becoming pretty clear that a title challenge this season is out of the question. Some will be really disappointed with that but I'm afraid it is where we are.

Watching Liverpool & Villa drop points to relegation fodder meant that the weekend wasn’t a total disaster.
The prospect of finishing below that lot down the road though ?

[Peter]

Watching Liverpool & Villa drop points to relegation fodder meant that the weekend wasn’t a total disaster.
The prospect of finishing below that lot down the road though ?

Hate to say it, but Spurs are playing with the sort of fluency we had last season :-(

[PSRB]

Hate to say it, but Spurs are playing with the sort of fluency we had last season :-(

Small squad though, injury to Maddison or Son and then we'll see how they do. Also, having no Europe or League cup has helped them.

[WES]

:nod: I also think the better teams have worked out how to play against him as well

Well they've never played against him when he's played as an out and out midfielder :shrug:

I like his attitude on the ball, no endless sideways passing for Zinny, he's actually trying to create something. And with that can come a loss of possession, but without it you can end up with latter Wengers years when we seemed to value possession more than anything else.

I'd love to see a Rice Zinny Ode midfield :-)

[WES]

Small squad though, injury to Maddison or Son and then we'll see how they do. Also, having no Europe or League cup has helped them.

:nod: and a very easy schedule so far this year

[PSRB]

:nod: and a very easy schedule so far this year

They seem to have a very nicely spread out schedule with 1 hard game followed by 2 or 3 easy ones.

[Peter]

Well they've never played against him when he's played as an out and out midfielder :shrug:

I like his attitude on the ball, no endless sideways passing for Zinny, he's actually trying to create something. And with that can come a loss of possession, but without it you can end up with latter Wengers years when we seemed to value possession more than anything else.

I'd love to see a Rice Zinny Ode midfield :-)

It isnt when he loses it through ambition. It is when he loses it through being sloppy or casual that I want to punch him :-)

[Peter]

They seem to have a very nicely spread out schedule with 1 hard game followed by 2 or 3 easy ones.

By tonight they will have played Liverpool, Chelsea, us and United. Admittedly, United are ****e, we gifted them a route back into the game twice and their victory over Liverpool is one of the absurdly undeserved wins in the history of the game.

[Peter]

:nod: and a very easy schedule so far this year

These are exactly the things everyone said about us at this stage last season.....

I know we had the Europa League but we were fielding reserves until we ran out of them!

[WES]

What is becoming clear is the changes have disrupted the entire team. We are just not functioning with the same fluency as last year and we look unbalanced in midfield. Although we do seem more controlled, we are still making the silly mistakes that cost goals.

Odegaard and Partey would make a big difference if we can get them fit. But it is now becoming pretty clear that a title challenge this season is out of the question. Some will be really disappointed with that but I'm afraid it is where we are.

Never one for overreaction, eh Peter? :hehe:

If Spurs lose or draw tonight we’re 3 points back with just the 27 games to play. And we’ve beaten City twice now. Plenty of time for Arteta to fix things and challenge for the league.

[WES]

It isnt when he loses it through ambition. It is when he loses it through being sloppy or casual that I want to punch him :-)

Jaysus Peter, you must have hated Aaron Ramsey even more than me! :hehe:

[redgunamo]

Essentially your point is, we should've signed Harry Kane in the summer :-\



That goal was pretty much our fault. Should never have happened. They all switched off assuming the ball was out of play. When they switch back on, White is far too slow getting out to put pressure on the cross, and Raya loses his bearings, creeping ahead of his front post, again!

If anyone was assuming that VAR would sort it out they just haven't been watching this season :-)

Thought the Havertz challenge was idiotic but not a red. I am still stunned by the notion that Bruno's whack on Jorginho's head could be considered anything other than violent conduct. But then again, VAR was never going to send him off for that after Newcastle's reaction to the Havertz yellow.

Newcastle really are a deeply unpleasant team and they might want to shut up about racism after the suspicious booing of our black players. I hear Jorginho refused to shake hands with them. Good :-)

[Peter]

Jaysus Peter, you must have hated Aaron Ramsey even more than me! :hehe:

Probably, yeah :-)

20 minutes in and Spurs could have had two players sent off. But a kick off the ball and a two-footed tackle are fine now, apparently.

VAR doubling down on 'its fine to punch someone on the back of the head' :-)

[Peter]

Essentially your point is, we should've signed Harry Kane in the summer :-\

I dont think that is my point but it might be.

It is also possible that I don't have one.

[Peter]

Probably, yeah :-)

20 minutes in and Spurs could have had two players sent off. But a kick off the ball and a two-footed tackle are fine now, apparently.

VAR doubling down on 'its fine to punch someone on the back of the head' :-)

Make that 3 reds :-) Finally given one!