View Full Version : Ramsdale has to come back in now
Peter
10-23-2023, 02:08 PM
That was the worst yet from Raya. His positioning was all over the place all evening and he was lucky he wasn't caught out with a lobbed shot in the first half. He cost us one goal and was very, very lucky not to cost us another.
That is three poor performances in a row, each worse than the last. Even if we had a distant number two there would be a good case for giving him a break for a while.
Arteta needs to accept this isn't working and go back to Ramsdale for now. Raya can play in the ****ty cup and see if he can get his game back together.
That was the worst yet from Raya. His positioning was all over the place all evening and he was lucky he wasn't caught out with a lobbed shot in the first half. He cost us one goal and was very, very lucky not to cost us another.
That is three poor performances in a row, each worse than the last. Even if we had a distant number two there would be a good case for giving him a break for a while.
Arteta needs to accept this isn't working and go back to Ramsdale for now. Raya can play in the ****ty cup and see if he can get his game back together.
Have to say if I was Ramsdale and didn't play tomorrow, then I'd be on the phone to my agent.
I'd understand the whole thing a bit more if Ramsdale had played poorly to deserve being dropped.
Peter
10-23-2023, 02:30 PM
Have to say if I was Ramsdale and didn't play tomorrow, then I'd be on the phone to my agent.
I'd understand the whole thing a bit more if Ramsdale had played poorly to deserve being dropped.
I think Arteta is looking for every tiny bit of improvement he can find. He clearly thinks that Raya is better with his feet and more comfortable holding the ball and drawing in the press. In theory this could work but so far all we have seen is a series of errors, beginning small and getting worse.
Long term, it might work. Long term, I think Ramsdale is probably finished at Arsenal. Right now, we have a keeper whose confidence is shot to pieces and who is costing us goals. It isn't going to magically improve and he needs to take him out of the side for now but I have a feeling he won't.
I note Ramdale wasnt even on the bench on Saturday....
I think Arteta is looking for every tiny bit of improvement he can find. He clearly thinks that Raya is better with his feet and more comfortable holding the ball and drawing in the press. In theory this could work but so far all we have seen is a series of errors, beginning small and getting worse.
Long term, it might work. Long term, I think Ramsdale is probably finished at Arsenal. Right now, we have a keeper whose confidence is shot to pieces and who is costing us goals. It isn't going to magically improve and he needs to take him out of the side for now but I have a feeling he won't.
I note Ramdale wasnt even on the bench on Saturday....
Birth of his son
I think Arteta is looking for every tiny bit of improvement he can find. He clearly thinks that Raya is better with his feet and more comfortable holding the ball and drawing in the press. In theory this could work but so far all we have seen is a series of errors, beginning small and getting worse.
Long term, it might work. Long term, I think Ramsdale is probably finished at Arsenal. Right now, we have a keeper whose confidence is shot to pieces and who is costing us goals. It isn't going to magically improve and he needs to take him out of the side for now but I have a feeling he won't.
I note Ramdale wasnt even on the bench on Saturday....
His wife gave birth, Peter :rolleyes:
Raya hasn't been great but the 2nd at Chelsea wasn't nearly as bad as the first Ramsdale conceded at home to Fulham.
Not sure I've seen worse keeping than that for some time.
His wife gave birth, Peter :rolleyes:
Raya hasn't been great but the 2nd at Chelsea wasn't nearly as bad as the first Ramsdale conceded at home to Fulham.
Not sure I've seen worse keeping than that for some time.
Is that not the goal that Saka was completely at fault for?
Peter
10-23-2023, 02:40 PM
Birth of his son
Ah, ok. Fair enough :-)
Is that not the goal that Saka was completely at fault for?
No, that was the goal that Saka was at fault for giving the ball away - once he had done that Ramsdale gifted them the goal with some seriously incompetent keeping.
Peter
10-23-2023, 02:46 PM
His wife gave birth, Peter :rolleyes:
Raya hasn't been great but the 2nd at Chelsea wasn't nearly as bad as the first Ramsdale conceded at home to Fulham.
Not sure I've seen worse keeping than that for some time.
Are you serious? Guy is played clean through from our comfortable possession and he loses his footing trying to furiously backpeddle. You think that is worse than passing to an opponent in your own box, or getting chipped when you are supposed to be on your line?
Questionable for the first Spurs goal. Directly at fault for the goal against Lens. Chaotic against City and inches away from conceding from our possession. Chipped on his line and surrendered possession in his own box at Chelsea.
'Hasn't been great' is a dramatic understatement.
Are you serious? Guy is played clean through from our comfortable possession and he loses his footing trying to furiously backpeddle. You think that is worse than passing to an opponent in your own box, or getting chipped when you are supposed to be on your line?
Questionable for the first Spurs goal. Directly at fault for the goal against Lens. Chaotic against City and inches away from conceding from our possession. Chipped on his line and surrendered possession in his own box at Chelsea.
'Hasn't been great' is a dramatic understatement.
Played clean through :clap:
He was about 20 yds outside the box and there was a defender goal side when he hit it. All Ramsdale had to do was move straight back about 4-5 yards and the ball would have floated into his hands. Instead he twisted himself into a knot and fell over while the ball bounced into the goal :hehe:
Are you serious? Guy is played clean through from our comfortable possession and he loses his footing trying to furiously backpeddle. You think that is worse than passing to an opponent in your own box, or getting chipped when you are supposed to be on your line?
Questionable for the first Spurs goal. Directly at fault for the goal against Lens. Chaotic against City and inches away from conceding from our possession. Chipped on his line and surrendered possession in his own box at Chelsea.
'Hasn't been great' is a dramatic understatement.
As I've said before, I don't think Raya is as mentally strong as Ramsdale. When Ramsdale makes an error, he owns it and doesn't fall to pieces in the way Raya seems to.
I do think Mikel is making a rod for his own back but putting ridiculous pressure on the keepers though.
As I've said before, I don't think Raya isn't as mentally strong as Ramsdale. When Ramsdale makes an error, he owns it and doesn't fall to pieces in the way Raya seems to.
I do think Mikel is making a rod for his own back but putting ridiculous pressure on the keepers though.
Yes, I agree with that, Ramsdale has made his share of errors but he strikes me as very mentally strong. I'm not convinced at all on Raya in this regard and that's dangerous for a keeper.
See also Peter's favourite - Manuel Almunia :-)
Peter
10-23-2023, 02:57 PM
Played clean through :clap:
He was about 20 yds outside the box and there was a defender goal side when he hit it. All Ramsdale had to do was move straight back about 4-5 yards and the ball would have floated into his hands. Instead he twisted himself into a knot and fell over while the ball bounced into the goal :hehe:
You need to watch it again. He has every reason to panic. Bloke could have chipped him comfortably and he would have been out of the game. The defender is nowhere near getting to him, nor even trying. He doesn't have his bearings because he is miles from goal and the situation has come completely out of the blue. Falling over wasn't the best idea but I can't buy that as a huge error.
You are also completely ignoring the fact that the problem was not even close to being of Ramsdale's making. His position is fine given where we had the ball and even if he fears we could lose it he can have no expectation that it would happen so cleanly and so quickly.
All of Raya's errors were totally down to him and were easily avoidable.
Peter
10-23-2023, 03:01 PM
Yes, I agree with that, Ramsdale has made his share of errors but he strikes me as very mentally strong. I'm not convinced at all on Raya in this regard and that's dangerous for a keeper.
See also Peter's favourite - Manuel Almunia :-)
Again, I wasn't saying Almunia was great. I was saying that Fabianski's game was a mess and he needed to sort it out. He was making huge errors every time he played.
But you don't really care for nuance, do you... :-)
Again, I wasn't saying Almunia was great. I was saying that Fabianski's game was a mess and he needed to sort it out. He was making huge errors every time he played.
But you don't really care for nuance, do you... :-)
Oh I thought my Almunia wind up of you Peter was very nuanced :-)
Peter
10-23-2023, 03:04 PM
As I've said before, I don't think Raya is as mentally strong as Ramsdale. When Ramsdale makes an error, he owns it and doesn't fall to pieces in the way Raya seems to.
I do think Mikel is making a rod for his own back but putting ridiculous pressure on the keepers though.
It is also fair to point out that Raya clearly isn't totally comfortable with the players around him yet. Our midfield is far less settled than it was last season and Raya has just come in. He will get better.
He does have several technical advantages over Ramsdale and he is far more comfortable coming for the ball. But at the moment, he is a liability.
Peter
10-23-2023, 03:05 PM
Oh I thought my Almunia wind up of you Peter was very nuanced :-)
I was paraphrasing one of your fellow countrymen....:-)
It is also fair to point out that Raya clearly isn't totally comfortable with the players around him yet. Our midfield is far less settled than it was last season and Raya has just come in. He will get better.
He does have several technical advantages over Ramsdale and he is far more comfortable coming for the ball. But at the moment, he is a liability.
How reasonable of you, Peter :-)
I don't think there's much in it, it's amazing how good the player who isn't playing much can be. Arteta will stick with Raya for the forseeable and I doubt it will make much difference.
I'm more puzzled by the play of Odegaard and a few others on Saturday. Shocking.
Peter
10-23-2023, 03:20 PM
How reasonable of you, Peter :-)
I don't think there's much in it, it's amazing how good the player who isn't playing much can be. Arteta will stick with Raya for the forseeable and I doubt it will make much difference.
I'm more puzzled by the play of Odegaard and a few others on Saturday. Shocking.
At this point, it is purely about form. Raya needs to get his head together and we just can't afford to be losing goals. We cannot afford to lose in Sevilla.
We weren't great on Saturday. Not a huge surprise coming so soon after the break with little preparation. Odegaard is one of those players who suffers when he is slightly off. His game is about technique and precision so his contributions drop very quickly if he is rusty or knackered.
He may have been more deity than human but even Dennis used to struggle a little the first game back after one of his many suspensions.
At this point, it is purely about form. Raya needs to get his head together and we just can't afford to be losing goals. We cannot afford to lose in Sevilla.
We weren't great on Saturday. Not a huge surprise coming so soon after the break with little preparation. Odegaard is one of those players who suffers when he is slightly off. His game is about technique and precision so his contributions drop very quickly if he is rusty or knackered.
He may have been more deity than human but even Dennis used to struggle a little the first game back after one of his many suspensions.
The pitch was abysmal, completely ****ed our passing game, as the ball just didn't roll. Grass looked long and so much rain. Yes, it's the same for both teams but certainly suited Chelsea more.
Peter
10-23-2023, 03:37 PM
The pitch was abysmal, completely ****ed our passing game, as the ball just didn't roll. Grass looked long and so much rain. Yes, it's the same for both teams but certainly suited Chelsea more.
Certainly Didn't suit Zinchenko who managed to give the ball away in our own box in the first 2 minutes...
He needs to recalibrate his calculations of risk and reward.
redgunamo
10-23-2023, 05:46 PM
Not sure. I reckon the manager simply PREFERS young Dave, fancies him more.
It's like the man said about birds; if there's two you ought to stick with the second one because if the first one had been right, you wouldn't have wanted to find the second one.
In fairness though, Rambo only really needs to start to think about things if we actually BUY Raya; at the moment, AR is the confirmed long term project/investment.
At this point, it is purely about form.
Peter
10-23-2023, 06:44 PM
Not sure. I reckon the manager simply PREFERS young Dave, fancies him more.
It's like the man said about birds; if there's two you ought to stick with the second one because if the first one had been right, you wouldn't have wanted to find the second one.
In fairness though, Rambo only really needs to start to think about things if we actually BUY Raya; at the moment, AR is the confirmed long term project/investment.
Of course he prefers Raya. That doesn't change the fact that at present he is a mess. From this point onwards, every mistake he makes is Arteta's fault.
The whole two keepers argument is looking like a **** idea at this point. Sometimes there is a reason why nobody has ever bothered trying something.
Of course he prefers Raya. That doesn't change the fact that at present he is a mess. From this point onwards, every mistake he makes is Arteta's fault.
The whole two keepers argument is looking like a **** idea at this point. Sometimes there is a reason why nobody has ever bothered trying something.
You are overstating the degree of his messness and forgetting that Ramsdale was hardly the second coming of Buffon when he was playing. Raya was very good his first few games, some errors have crept in since then, admittedly. What Raya needs now is the support of the manager and the supporters and a run of a few good performances and some clean sheets.
Arteta isn't changing this any time soon. I also read some writer in the Tele recently saying that the 'data' shows that Raya is still performing better than Ramsdale was. No idea what the data is but that's good enough for me :-)
7sisters
10-24-2023, 09:00 AM
You are overstating the degree of his messness and forgetting that Ramsdale was hardly the second coming of Buffon when he was playing. Raya was very good his first few games, some errors have crept in since then, admittedly. What Raya needs now is the support of the manager and the supporters and a run of a few good performances and some clean sheets.
Arteta isn't changing this any time soon. I also read some writer in the Tele recently saying that the 'data' shows that Raya is still performing better than Ramsdale was. No idea what the data is but that's good enough for me :-)
Added to that, Arteta would look pretty silly by recalling Ramsdale at the first signs of a wobble with Raya.
I’m sure most of us are pulling for Ramsdale. There’s a fag paper between them in terms of ability but Ramsdale is far more of a commanding communicator behind the defence, which gives him the edge at this point.
Raya has a touch of the Leno’s about him in that respect.
Arsenal Alcoholic Review
10-24-2023, 10:03 AM
The big elephant in the room is we let the World’s best keeper leave in the middle of all this mess. One who just won us silverware too.
Peter
10-24-2023, 11:13 AM
Added to that, Arteta would look pretty silly by recalling Ramsdale at the first signs of a wobble with Raya.
I’m sure most of us are pulling for Ramsdale. There’s a fag paper between them in terms of ability but Ramsdale is far more of a commanding communicator behind the defence, which gives him the edge at this point.
Raya has a touch of the Leno’s about him in that respect.
I am aware that Arteta is unlikely to change his mind yet. Raya gets the next two games to try and get through 90 minutes without making a total tit of himself. If he doesn't, Arteta has an opportunity with the EFL game to back down quietly or stand his ground.
Courage and a surplus of bright ideas is the price we pay for having Arteta. A price worth paying, certainly, but so far this season it hasn't really been working very well.
I am aware that Arteta is unlikely to change his mind yet. Raya gets the next two games to try and get through 90 minutes without making a total tit of himself. If he doesn't, Arteta has an opportunity with the EFL game to back down quietly or stand his ground.
Courage and a surplus of bright ideas is the price we pay for having Arteta. A price worth paying, certainly, but so far this season it hasn't really been working very well.
Still unfair on Ramsdale, who I don't think even had a wobble in the 1st place.
Luis Anaconda
10-24-2023, 11:19 AM
Still unfair on Ramsdale, who I don't think even had a wobble in the 1st place.
PFA team of the season, nominated for the Yashin award, dropped. Funny old game. Very much in the Ramsdale in camp here
Peter
10-24-2023, 11:19 AM
Still unfair on Ramsdale, who I don't think even had a wobble in the 1st place.
I don't think fairness really comes into it. If you think you can improve a position, you do it. If Raya was playing well nobody would mind.
He isn't :-(
PFA team of the season, nominated for the Yashin award, dropped. Funny old game. Very much in the Ramsdale in camp here
:nod: From all the evidence I've seen, I prefer Ramsdale.
Luis Anaconda
10-24-2023, 11:25 AM
:nod: From all the evidence I've seen, I prefer Ramsdale.
He also just seems a good bloke. That long article in the Player's Tribune (I think) was very good
Peter
10-24-2023, 11:31 AM
He also just seems a good bloke. That long article in the Player's Tribune (I think) was very good
We've got Declan Rice for that now. You don't want too many good blokes in your team :-)
We've got Declan Rice for that now. You don't want too many good blokes in your team :-)
We've got a fair few; Saka, Odegaard, Tomi, Martinelli, White & Timber.
Pat Vegas
10-24-2023, 11:41 AM
We've got a fair few; Saka, Odegaard, Tomi, Martinelli, White & Timber.
Ben White is a interesting charcater. his look and personality don't seem to match.
Peter
10-24-2023, 11:47 AM
We've got a fair few; Saka, Odegaard, Tomi, Martinelli, White & Timber.
Not sure I would include Martinelli in that list. He has a bit more of an edge about him than the others. Nothing wrong with that, of course :-)
Not sure I would include Martinelli in that list. He has a bit more of an edge about him than the others. Nothing wrong with that, of course :-)
Always comes across as a very polite, young man in interviews.
Peter
10-24-2023, 11:54 AM
Always comes across as a very polite, young man in interviews.
Oh, they are trained to do that. He does like a bit of showboating, there is a bit of petulance about him (the infamous Wolves sending off) and there is something about his face that leads me to suspect he might not be quick to get his round in :-)
Whereas Saka appears to be an angel in every respect.
Oh, they are trained to do that. He does like a bit of showboating, there is a bit of petulance about him (the infamous Wolves sending off) and there is something about his face that leads me to suspect he might not be quick to get his round in :-)
Whereas Saka appears to be an angel in every respect.
Famous Arsenal players you suspect are least likely to get their round in:
David Seaman
Luis Anaconda
10-24-2023, 01:36 PM
Famous Arsenal players you suspect are least likely to get their round in:
David Seaman
Tony Adams these days
redgunamo
10-24-2023, 01:42 PM
:-( David Seaman.
The big elephant in the room is we let the World’s best keeper leave in the middle of all this mess. One who just won us silverware too.
redgunamo
10-24-2023, 01:46 PM
Yeah, same here. Nothing against David Raya, of course, but he is a Brentford player, after all.
:nod: From all the evidence I've seen, I prefer Ramsdale.
Tony Adams these days
:hehe: and Merson.
Pat Vegas
10-24-2023, 02:09 PM
Yeah, same here. Nothing against David Raya, of course, but he is a Brentford player, after all.
he has that sad look about him.
Almost Almuniaesque.
7sisters
10-24-2023, 02:43 PM
Tony Adams these days
I’m fairly sure Parlour’s proving an able stand in from that squard.
He’d be first to the ramp waving his iPhone/clutch of tenners. How times have changed.
PFA team of the season, nominated for the Yashin award, dropped. Funny old game. Very much in the Ramsdale in camp here
Ramsdale isn't bad but he's not a top 3 goalkeeper. Not saying Raya is either... but it's an area we should be actively looking to improve in.
Arsenal Alcoholic Review
10-24-2023, 07:27 PM
Two suicidal passes from Raya in 20 minutes so far against Seville.
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