Hang on. Boris seems to have said a Conservative thing.

[Burney]

"You have to question whether that way of funding media still makes sense... how long can you justify a system where everyone who has a TV has to pay?”

:hehe: That should put the frighteners on the lefty ****s. :hehe:

[Sir C]

"You have to question whether that way of funding media still makes sense... how long can you justify a system where everyone who has a TV has to pay?”

:hehe: That should put the frighteners on the lefty ****s. :hehe:

If Boris sorts out the electoral boundary issue so that the Trots no longer have an unfair advantage, empties the BBC of the current sewage that infests it, and closes down Channel 4 news, I will take back all the bad things I’ve said about him.

[Burney]

"You have to question whether that way of funding media still makes sense... how long can you justify a system where everyone who has a TV has to pay?”

:hehe: That should put the frighteners on the lefty ****s. :hehe:

Needless to say, this has totally thrown all the Corbynistas who are bizarrely convinced that the BBC is somehow a tory mouthpiece. :hehe:

[Burney]

If Boris sorts out the electoral boundary issue so that the Trots no longer have an unfair advantage, empties the BBC of the current sewage that infests it, and closes down Channel 4 news, I will take back all the bad things I’ve said about him.

I agree. The boundaries thing yet another one of the negative consequences of May píssing away Cameron's majority.

What’s potentially really exciting is that if Labour lose this election, they’ll have parachuted enough hard left candidates into safe seats that they’ll have a complete stranglehold over the party as a whole. Previously, the PLP has been the last bastion of moderation, but that change will make it well-nigh impossible for even vaguely moderate MPs to stay in the party and will ensure that Corbynism outlives Corbyn.

We could finally be looking at the end of the road for Labour as a governing party. :cloud9:

[Sir C]

I agree. The boundaries thing yet another one of the negative consequences of May píssing away Cameron's majority.

What’s potentially really exciting is that if Labour lose this election, they’ll have parachuted enough hard left candidates into safe seats that they’ll have a complete stranglehold over the party as a whole. Previously, the PLP has been the last bastion of moderation, but that change will make it well-nigh impossible for even vaguely moderate MPs to stay in the party and will ensure that Corbynism outlives Corbyn.

We could finally be looking at the end of the road for Labour as a governing party. :cloud9:

It will be like 1989 all over again. Finally, safe from socialism!

I’m coming over all ***uyama.

[Pokster]

It will be like 1989 all over again. Finally, safe from socialism!

I’m coming over all ***uyama.

Oh goodie, high interest rates again and loads of people on the doll... don't mind the first bit as long as the stock markets do well

[Sir C]

Oh goodie, high interest rates again and loads of people on the doll... don't mind the first bit as long as the stock markets do well

15% would suit me just nicely, thank you.

[Pokster]

15% would suit me just nicely, thank you.

If they can just wait a bit until i pay my mortgage off and retire, that would be lovely :thumbup:

[Burney]

Oh goodie, high interest rates again and loads of people on the doll... don't mind the first bit as long as the stock markets do well

I think Sir C may have been referring to the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of the Cold War and the ultimate defeat of the murderous and evil Communist regime that liberated hundreds of millions of people from misery and inhuman bondage.

But yeah, high interest rates. That's obviously more important.

[Pokster]

I think Sir C may have been referring to the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of the Cold War and the ultimate defeat of the murderous and evil Communist regime that liberated hundreds of millions of people from misery and inhuman bondage.

But yeah, high interest rates. That's obviously more important.

Blimey, you know exactly what he meant by saying "finally, safe from socialism"... It's good he can say just 4 little words and mean so much

[Burney]

Blimey, you know exactly what he meant by saying "finally, safe from socialism"... It's good he can say just 4 little words and mean so much

Well, yes. Partly because I know him and partly because it's blindingly fúcking obvious. :shrug:

[Pokster]

Well, yes. Partly because I know him and partly because it's blindingly fúcking obvious. :shrug:

Of course it is :rolleyes:

[Burney]

Of course it is :rolleyes:

Oh dear. Do you know who Fúkuyama is? Or what he said about the end of history?

Of course you don't. If you did, you'd see why it's blindingly fúcking obvious what Sir C meant.

[Sir C]

I think Sir C may have been referring to the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of the Cold War and the ultimate defeat of the murderous and evil Communist regime that liberated hundreds of millions of people from misery and inhuman bondage.

But yeah, high interest rates. That's obviously more important.

It’s bizarre quite how quickly people have forgotten the horrors of post war socialism in Eastern Europe. Maybe they just never cared.

[Pokster]

Oh dear. Do you know who Fúkuyama is? Or what he said about the end of history?

Of course you don't. If you did, you'd see why it's blindingly fúcking obvious what Sir C meant.

But since the comment was originally about 1989 and not 1991 when the Cold war ended and the old soviet union dissolved then excuse me for not getting it.

[Pokster]

Oh dear. Do you know who Fúkuyama is? Or what he said about the end of history?

Of course you don't. If you did, you'd see why it's blindingly fúcking obvious what Sir C meant.

I am also obviosuly :old: as I got my 79 and 89 mixed up with Maggie winning :banghead:

[Burney]

It’s bizarre quite how quickly people have forgotten the horrors of post war socialism in Eastern Europe. Maybe they just never cared.

Because they were - by their nature - hidden, I suppose. We didn't see emaciated bodies being bulldozed into mass graves and never had to experience the day-to-day misery and paranoia of living in police states, so it's all a bit theoretical to most westerners. Add in the fact that its iconography and a watered-down version of its politics were rendered respectable by leftist parties in the west and you have a recipe for indifference.

[Burney]

But since the comment was originally about 1989 and not 1991 when the Cold war ended and the old soviet union dissolved then excuse me for not getting it.

The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. That was the iconic historical moment of 1989*, signifying as it did the fall of Soviet Communism.



*Yes, more so than us winning the league.

[Sir C]

The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. That was the iconic historical moment of 1989*, signifying as it did the fall of Soviet Communism.



*Yes, more so than us winning the league.

Even better, that filth Ceausescu and its vile consort got theirs on Christmas Day 1989. My favourite Christmas TV ever. :cloud9:

[Sir C]

Because they were - by their nature - hidden, I suppose. We didn't see emaciated bodies being bulldozed into mass graves and never had to experience the day-to-day misery and paranoia of living in police states, so it's all a bit theoretical to most westerners. Add in the fact that its iconography and a watered-down version of its politics were rendered respectable by leftist parties in the west and you have a recipe for indifference.

But... we knew. We had Solzhenitsyn. We had attempted escapees. People even went and saw it. I saw it. Comrade Corbyn saw it (and loved it, apparently) We knew!

[Burney]

Even better, that filth Ceausescu and its vile consort got theirs on Christmas Day 1989. My favourite Christmas TV ever. :cloud9:

Yes. The marksmanship of their executioners was a touch sloppy as I recall. They probably suffered quite a lot of pain before oblivion embraced them.

Oh dear.
How sad.
Never mind.

[Burney]

But... we knew. We had Solzhenitsyn. We had attempted escapees. People even went and saw it. I saw it. Comrade Corbyn saw it (and loved it, apparently) We knew!

There's knowing and knowing, though, isn't there? Most Americans and Brits 'knew' that the Germans were probably doing terrible things in the camps, but it wasn't until the footage came through that the true horror began to sink in. The sad truth is that it is a case of 'out of sight, out of mind' when it comes to evil.

[Sir C]

There's knowing and knowing, though, isn't there? Most Americans and Brits 'knew' that the Germans were probably doing terrible things in the camps, but it wasn't until the footage came through that the true horror began to sink in. The sad truth is that it is a case of 'out of sight, out of mind' when it comes to evil.

Have you ever read (or seen) Stoppard’s ‘Professional Foul’? Even that revolting apologist addressed it to some degree, and it was shown as a Play for Today on the BBC. I think you underestimate how evil the regime was acknowledged to be.

[Burney]

Have you ever read (or seen) Stoppard’s ‘Professional Foul’? Even that revolting apologist addressed it to some degree, and it was shown as a Play for Today on the BBC. I think you underestimate how evil the regime was acknowledged to be.

Yes. And there was Le Carré (who, whatever his faults, never wavered in his loathing of communism).

But these are a/ relatively niche and b/ non-visual. Never underestimate the impact of images. In emotional terms, everything's just theoretical until we see it. The soviets learned from the Holomodor to keep the optics out of sight and, as a result, communism never had the visceral impact on people that the realities of Nazism did.

[Sir C]

Yes. And there was Le Carré (who, whatever his faults, never wavered in his loathing of communism).

But these are a/ relatively niche and b/ non-visual. Never underestimate the impact of images. In emotional terms, everything's just theoretical until we see it. The soviets learned from the Holomodor to keep the optics out of sight and, as a result, communism never had the visceral impact on people that the realities of Nazism did.

Le Carre loved drawing the old moral equivalence though, such was (is) his dislike for the Service and the UK. One thinks of Smiley in the cell in Delhi with Karla... with the lighter - with the take away from that scene being ‘Both sides are as bad as the other’.

[Burney]

Le Carre loved drawing the old moral equivalence though, such was (is) his dislike for the Service and the UK. One thinks of Smiley in the cell in Delhi with Karla... with the lighter - with the take away from that scene being ‘Both sides are as bad as the other’.

Yes, but surely that moment was the nadir of Smiley's faith? His greatest moment of doubt and weakness for which he pays with the betrayal of his wife and for which his ultimate triumph over Karla represents his redemption?

[Sir C]

Yes, but surely that moment was the nadir of Smiley's faith? His greatest moment of doubt and weakness for which he pays with the betrayal of his wife and for which his ultimate triumph over Karla represents his redemption?

Perhaps you are right. It’s just an increasingly common theme as one reads through his work; his message, if there is one, is ‘a plague on both your house’.

[Burney]

Perhaps you are right. It’s just an increasingly common theme as one reads through his work; his message, if there is one, is ‘a plague on both your house’.

I accept that there's a certain amount of jaundice, but I think even with that he acknowledges that we aren't the ones who drug people, put them on planes, take them to the depths of the Ljubjanka, torture them and then shoot them in the back of the head.

[Sir C]

I accept that there's a certain amount of jaundice, but I think even with that he acknowledges that we aren't the ones who drug people, put them on planes, take them to the depths of the Ljubjanka, torture them and then shoot them in the back of the head.

True. He always made the inquisitors sound pleasingly sinister, though.

[IUFG]

Yes. The marksmanship of their executioners was a touch sloppy as I recall. They probably suffered quite a lot of pain before oblivion embraced them.

Oh dear.
How sad.
Never mind.

I always thought standing him up against a wall with a window behind him was a tad reckless, given that he was about to have several caps popped in his ass from an AK47

[Burney]

True. He always made the inquisitors sound pleasingly sinister, though.

You will note, of course, that I’ve inadvertently managed to frame Smiley’s redemptive arc in ridiculously Catholic terms? :hehe:

You can take the boy out of the Church...

[AFC East]

Needless to say, this has totally thrown all the Corbynistas who are bizarrely convinced that the BBC is somehow a tory mouthpiece. :hehe:

The bbc like most organisations doesn’t bite the hand that feeds it. I remember how they treated Kinniock, Smith, Foot et al. Even Blair got it in the neck until he became the pay master. All of a sudden the tone changed when he was elected. If Labour want the beebs balance to change they need to win an election.

[Sir C]

The bbc like most organisations doesn’t bite the hand that feeds it. I remember how they treated Kinniock, Smith, Foot et al. Even Blair got it in the neck until he became the pay master. All of a sudden the tone changed when he was elected. If Labour want the beebs balance to change they need to win an election.

Wait,Nate we talking about the same BBC? The one with the carefully selected studio audiences ensuring it efficiently carries out its role as Momentum’s propaganda arm?