Lol! Turns out old Toothytits isn't quite the hit the LibDems thought.

[Burney]

I appreciate the piece is paywalled, but the headline tells you everything you need to know. :hehe:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/voters-dislike-jo-swinson-the-more-they-see-her-poll-finds-ffjdlvc8k#

[Ash]

I appreciate the piece is paywalled, but the headline tells you everything you need to know. :hehe:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/voters-dislike-jo-swinson-the-more-they-see-her-poll-finds-ffjdlvc8k#

Her party has vowed to be even more austere than the EU itself, while even the Tories are suggesting, I gather, that they would increase public spending.

[Sir C]

I appreciate the piece is paywalled, but the headline tells you everything you need to know. :hehe:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/voters-dislike-jo-swinson-the-more-they-see-her-poll-finds-ffjdlvc8k#

Balls to all that.

Krazy Komrade Korbyn is now up to 32%.

That is a third of the electorate.

1 person in 3.

I wish I was dead.

[Burney]

Her party has vowed to be even more austere than the EU itself, while even the Tories are suggesting, I gather, that they would increase public spending.

There is that, but I think it's more that even moderate remainers regard the revoke A50 policy as extremist and anti-democratic.

Plus, a lot of floating voters have probably only just realised she scotch. Importatnt to remember that no party whose leader has a celtic fringe accent has been elected since the advent of mass media. We just don't want 'em in charge.

[Pokster]

There is that, but I think it's more that even moderate remainers regard the revoke A50 policy as extremist and anti-democratic.

Plus, a lot of floating voters have probably only just realised she's scotch. Important to remember that no party whose leader has a celtic fringe accent has been elected since the advent of mass media. We just don't want 'em in charge.

This is where you and I differ... you seem to think they are stupid for standing for their beliefs and should change tac as it means they won't be elected (or get close).

I think that if they want to stand for what they think is right then do it, there are a large number of voters who will agree with them (not enough for them to make a difference).

The 2 main party's will lie and make false claims to the electorate to get in then spend the next 5 years failing to deliver on them.

[Burney]

Balls to all that.

Krazy Komrade Korbyn is now up to 32%.

That is a third of the electorate.

1 person in 3.

I wish I was dead.

That's one poll. And it still shows him miles behind Boris, who I'm pretty hopeful is about to be elected in spite of having a private life that a Frenchman would consider rather messy. If it happens, it'll be remarkable.

[PSRB]

Balls to all that.

Krazy Komrade Korbyn is now up to 32%.

That is a third of the electorate.

1 person in 3.

I wish I was dead.

Thankfully Tories are a lot higher!

[Burney]

This is where you and I differ... you seem to think they are stupid for standing for their beliefs and should change tac as it means they won't be elected (or get close).

I think that if they want to stand for what they think is right then do it, there are a large number of voters who will agree with them (not enough for them to make a difference).

The 2 main party's will lie and make false claims to the electorate to get in then spend the next 5 years failing to deliver on them.

Oh, please! Don't give me the 'Lib Dems are principled and honourable' bit. They facilitated this election purely for short-term party gain when their most obvious route to remain was to keep Boris nominally in power, but impotent. They sold the 'Remain Coalition' up the river for a few more seats and if it doesn't work for them, I'll laugh my head off.

[PSRB]

That's one poll. And it still shows him miles behind Boris, who I'm pretty hopeful is about to be elected in spite of having a private life that a Frenchman would consider rather messy. If it happens, it'll be remarkable.

If someone other than Corbyn was Labour leader, I'd be worried.

[barrybueno]

Balls to all that.

Krazy Komrade Korbyn is now up to 32%.

That is a third of the electorate.

1 person in 3.

I wish I was dead.

If Labour get in I'm moving to Norfolk, I'm convinced politics doesn't matter there. Maybe to farmers but not little old me.

[Sir C]

Thankfully Tories are a lot higher!

Yes. But just look around you. 1 in 3 of the people around you are prepared to see a UK-hating, terrorist-loving, jew-hating, nasty authoritarian communist govern this country.

One person in three.

What sort of country have we become?

[Burney]

If someone other than Corbyn was Labour leader, I'd be worried.

They're doubling down and going full-on authoritarian Marxist.

McDonnell has just said a Labour Government would delist companies from the Stock Exchange if they deem them to be failing to meet climate targets. :yikes:

[Burney]

If Labour get in I'm moving to Norfolk, I'm convinced politics doesn't matter there. Maybe to farmers but not little old me.

:nono: They'll be coming for your Kulaks out there, b.

[Sir C]

If Labour get in I'm moving to Norfolk, I'm convinced politics doesn't matter there. Maybe to farmers but not little old me.

If Corbyn gets into no. 10 by means of an agreement with the vile Scotch midget and the anti-democratic liberals, it won't matter where you are. Comrade McDonnell's securitate/stasi/KGB mash up will find you and ensure that you are untainted by the evils of wrongthink.

[PSRB]

Yes. But just look around you. 1 in 3 of the people around you are prepared to see a UK-hating, terrorist-loving, jew-hating, nasty authoritarian communist govern this country.

One person in three.

What sort of country have we become?

Londoners for you

[Tony C]

Londoners for you

and one p isssed off ex awimber in Leeds

[PSRB]

and one p isssed off ex awimber in Leeds

It'll be the Home Counties and regions to the rescue.....again

[Monty92]

If Corbyn gets into no. 10 by means of an agreement with the vile Scotch midget and the anti-democratic liberals, it won't matter where you are. Comrade McDonnell's securitate/stasi/KGB mash up will find you and ensure that you are untainted by the evils of wrongthink.

I have a suspicion that in the event of a hung parliament, Corbyn will step down to give the Lib Dems the cover to lend Labour the support they'll need to govern.

[barrybueno]

If Corbyn gets into no. 10 by means of an agreement with the vile Scotch midget and the anti-democratic liberals, it won't matter where you are. Comrade McDonnell's securitate/stasi/KGB mash up will find you and ensure that you are untainted by the evils of wrongthink.

Well at least I can bury my head in the sand down the local beach. And ignorance is bliss, apparently they've only just got Ch4 and the internet is years away*

*Ironically of course it will be instant, super duper and *****free*****!

[WES]

and one p isssed off ex awimber in Leeds

I just checked his Twitter feed for the first time in a very long time.

He really is close to the edge. If it wasn't so funny I'd be worried for his health if Boris wins a majority. :hehe:

[Burney]

I just checked his Twitter feed for the first time in a very long time.

He really is close to the edge. If it wasn't so funny I'd be worried for his health if Boris wins a majority. :hehe:

Oh, dear God! He's retweeting Carole Cadwalladr! :hehe:

Honestly, if Boris gets his majority (Please God!), he is only about 134th on the list of people whose twitter feeds I intend to drink in with almost orgasmic pleasure on December 13th.

[PSRB]

I just checked his Twitter feed for the first time in a very long time.

He really is close to the edge. If it wasn't so funny I'd be worried for his health if Boris wins a majority. :hehe:

ArsenalFCview (used to be on here) is actually probably more mental than J, if I'm honest.

[PSRB]

Oh, dear God! He's retweeting Carole Cadwalladr! :hehe:

Honestly, if Boris gets his majority (Please God!), he is only about 134th on the list of people whose twitter feeds I intend to drink in with almost orgasmic pleasure on December 13th.

I think Emma Kennedy might actually end it, she seems very unstable!!

[PSRB]

They're doubling down and going full-on authoritarian Marxist.

McDonnell has just said a Labour Government would delist companies from the Stock Exchange if they deem them to be failing to meet climate targets. :yikes:

My entire retirement fund is in the balance if they get in

[WES]

Oh, dear God! He's retweeting Carole Cadwalladr! :hehe:

Honestly, if Boris gets his majority (Please God!), he is only about 134th on the list of people whose twitter feeds I intend to drink in with almost orgasmic pleasure on December 13th.

Out of interest, who's number 1? :-)

You must follow some absolute nutters if they're worse than Jorge. His feed is so full of rhetoric and intellectual nonsense that I fear he really has detached himself from reality.

[WES]

My entire retirement fund is in the balance if they get in

I'm currently interviewing at another bank and have asked for a substantial increase.

All of which I will lose if Corbyn gets in. :cry:

[Burney]

I think Emma Kennedy might actually end it, she seems very unstable!!

Yes. She blocked me the first time I interacted with her on Twitter after I asked her a perfectly polite and sensible question about her anti-Brexit stance. She's got full-blown Brexit Derangement Syndrome.

[Monty92]

Oh, dear God! He's retweeting Carole Cadwalladr! :hehe:

Honestly, if Boris gets his majority (Please God!), he is only about 134th on the list of people whose twitter feeds I intend to drink in with almost orgasmic pleasure on December 13th.

I'd like to have seen them pull away a bit more after the Brexit Party's announcement. As it stands they are behind where they were in 2017 :-(
,

[Monty92]

Out of interest, who's number 1? :-)

You must follow some absolute nutters if they're worse than Jorge. His feed is so full of rhetoric and intellectual nonsense that I fear he really has detached himself from reality.

He's got a big following. The temptation to keep repeating and amplifying the lines that get you likes and retweets must be strong.

Not entirely sure how he manages to hold down a job, though.

[Burney]

Out of interest, who's number 1? :-)

You must follow some absolute nutters if they're worse than Jorge. His feed is so full of rhetoric and intellectual nonsense that I fear he really has detached himself from reality.

There are so many to choose from. However, I think Alastair Campbell, Nick Cohen, David Aaronovitch, EU Supergirl and that ridiculous Femi individual have to be up there, though.

I think Jorge is a classic example of being on the echo chamber of twitter does to one. He was always obviously wrong about everything, but on here he got plenty of pushback on his nonsense and it probably tempered his excesses. On there he almost only ever spouts his nonsense to people who agree with him, which has made him genuinely insufferable.

[Burney]

I'd like to have seen them pull away a bit more after the Brexit Party's announcement. As it stands they are behind where they were in 2017 :-(
,

I didn't expect them to, to be honest. And bear in mind that what killed the tories in 2017 was their vote not turning out - whether because of complacency or May's terrible campaign and manifesto. I don't think that'll happen this time.

[Monty92]

I didn't expect them to, to be honest. And bear in mind that what killed the tories in 2017 was their vote not turning out - whether because of complacency or May's terrible campaign and manifesto. I don't think that'll happen this time.

Hang on, the Tories got over 2.5 million more votes in 2017 compared with 2015...

[Ash]

What sort of country have we become?

Jorge said the same thing about the country when 52% voted to leave. As did many others, who seem to genuinely consider that 52% of voters are fascists for wishing to be a sovereign state. Of course those voters are not fascists and nor are labour voters anti-semites or stalinists and all the rest of it. Brexit is not fascism and a Corbyn government would not be communism, however much it seems to suit some to keep repeating this claim loudly and often. :-(

[Burney]

Hang on, the Tories got over 2.5 million more votes in 2017 compared with 2015...

Yes, but on a turnout of 69% rather than 66% in 2917 and not in the crucial swing seats. They got hugely more votes in Brexit voting constituencies from non-traditional Tory voters (boosting their overall count), but failed to get the core vote out in marginals and even some relatively safe seats.

[WES]

There are so many to choose from. However, I think Alastair Campbell, Nick Cohen, David Aaronovitch, EU Supergirl and that ridiculous Femi individual have to be up there, though.

I think Jorge is a classic example of being on the echo chamber of twitter does to one. He was always obviously wrong about everything, but on here he got plenty of pushback on his nonsense and it probably tempered his excesses. On there he almost only ever spouts his nonsense to people who agree with him, which has made him genuinely insufferable.

He retweeted something along the lines of 'explain to me how selling our health service to the Americans is good but free broadband and child care is bad'.

I'm sorry, I can respect different opinions if they have even a semblance of intellectual rigour behind them, but garbage like that is so stupid that I can only assume anyone that utters it (or retweets it) is either extraordinarily stupid or utterly insane.

[Burney]

Jorge said the same thing about the country when 52% voted to leave. As did many others, who seem to genuinely consider that 52% of voters are fascists for wishing to be a sovereign state. Of course those voters are not fascists and nor are labour voters anti-semites or stalinists and all the rest of it. Brexit is not fascism and a Corbyn government would not be communism, however much it seems to suit some to keep repeating this claim loudly and often. :-(

This is no longer about logic or convincing argument, though. This is about voting remain being shorthand for being one of the good people and voting leave being the act of the evil. All nuance has long gone.

[Monty92]

He retweeted something along the lines of 'explain to me how selling our health service to the Americans is good but free broadband and child care is bad'.

I'm sorry, I can respect different opinions if they have even a semblance of intellectual rigour behind them, but garbage like that is so stupid that I can only assume anyone that utters it (or retweets it) is either extraordinarily stupid or utterly insane.

HE'S FISHING FOR MORE TWITTER LIKES, RETWEETS & FOLLOWERS YOU THICK **** :rolleyes:

[Burney]

He retweeted something along the lines of 'explain to me how selling our health service to the Americans is good but free broadband and child care is bad'.

I'm sorry, I can respect different opinions if they have even a semblance of intellectual rigour behind them, but garbage like that is so stupid that I can only assume anyone that utters it (or retweets it) is either extraordinarily stupid or utterly insane.

:hehe: I love the idea of 'selling our NHS to the USA'. How would that sales pitch go? "I say, we have here this lovely, Stalinist system that offers terrible health outcomes, costs more than the GDP of many small countries, has purchasing practices no business would even consider, is quite monstrously inefficient and employs more people than the Chinese Army. Fancy buying it?' :hehe:

[Burney]

HE'S FISHING FOR MORE TWITTER LIKES, RETWEETS & FOLLOWERS YOU THICK **** :rolleyes:

He is, of course. But - and I think this is crucial - I don't think he thinks he is. So what he's saying is what he actually believes and he presumably therefore imagines his arguments to have some validity, so I think your rudeness to WES is unmerited on this occasion.

[WES]

Jorge said the same thing about the country when 52% voted to leave. As did many others, who seem to genuinely consider that 52% of voters are fascists for wishing to be a sovereign state. Of course those voters are not fascists and nor are labour voters anti-semites or stalinists and all the rest of it. Brexit is not fascism and a Corbyn government would not be communism, however much it seems to suit some to keep repeating this claim loudly and often. :-(

You're doing exactly what you are objecting to, Ash. I don't think anyone considers the 52% to be fascists, and equally, it is disingenuous to suggest that all Leave voters simply wanted to be a sovereign state. BTW, you should try telling Italians, Germans and the French that they aren't living in a sovereign state, I think loads of them would be really surprised to find out that that is true.

Equally, I think very few people consider Corbyn, McDonnell et al to be communists, they just use the term for effect, to illustrate how far left the current version of the Labour has really gone. I don't consider them communists or even Marxists but their economic policies genuinely terrify me such would be the impact on the economy.

I'm old enough to remember England in the early to mid 70s and I don't ever want to go back there. Nor should you.

[WES]

HE'S FISHING FOR MORE TWITTER LIKES, RETWEETS & FOLLOWERS YOU THICK **** :rolleyes:

Is he really? I rarely look at or use Twitter so am hardly up to date with why and how people use it. Strikes me as terribly sad if he genuinely means what he posts, and even sadder if he is doing it to generate social media attention for himself.

You use it quite a bit then, do you Monty?

[Monty92]

Is he really? I rarely look at or use Twitter so am hardly up to date with why and how people use it. Strikes me as terribly sad if he genuinely means what he posts, and even sadder if he is doing it to generate social media attention for himself.

You use it quite a bit then, do you Monty?

It's hardly news that social media validation leads to dopamine release in the brain. Once you're into the thousands of followers then I imagine it must be pretty hard to resist bashing out yet another lefty talking point that's guaranteed to provide a quick and satisfying hit.

I read it a fair bit, but don't really post much.

[Burney]

You're doing exactly what you are objecting to, Ash. I don't think anyone considers the 52% to be fascists, and equally, it is disingenuous to suggest that all Leave voters simply wanted to be a sovereign state. BTW, you should try telling Italians, Germans and the French that they aren't living in a sovereign state, I think loads of them would be really surprised to find out that that is true.

Equally, I think very few people consider Corbyn, McDonnell et al to be communists, they just use the term for effect, to illustrate how far left the current version of the Labour has really gone. I don't consider them communists or even Marxists but their economic policies genuinely terrify me such would be the impact on the economy.

I'm old enough to remember England in the early to mid 70s and I don't ever want to go back there. Nor should you.

I mean, they self-avowedly are Marxists. In 2013, McDonnell said:


"Look, I’m straight, I’m honest with people: I’m a Marxist.

‘This is a classic crisis of the economy – a classic capitalist crisis. I’ve been waiting for this for a generation!

And since Marx (with Engels) wrote The Communist Manifesto, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

[WES]

I mean, they self-avowedly are Marxists. In 2013, McDonnell said:



And since Marx (with Engels) wrote The Communist Manifesto, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

Yeah but I've also seen him claim that - rightly or wrongly - Marxism means something different now that it did then blah blah blah...

And you don't have to go near Marxist beliefs to be terrified by what he and Corbyn would do to this country with a majority.

[PSRB]

He retweeted something along the lines of 'explain to me how selling our health service to the Americans is good but free broadband and child care is bad'.

I'm sorry, I can respect different opinions if they have even a semblance of intellectual rigour behind them, but garbage like that is so stupid that I can only assume anyone that utters it (or retweets it) is either extraordinarily stupid or utterly insane.

Yes, lets spend billions (conservative estimate is £20bn) on broadband, when 5g will offer better connection speeds in about 4-5 years time and companies are picking up the bill

[Monty92]

Yes, but on a turnout of 69% rather than 66% in 2917 and not in the crucial swing seats. They got hugely more votes in Brexit voting constituencies from non-traditional Tory voters (boosting their overall count), but failed to get the core vote out in marginals and even some relatively safe seats.

On the night of the election you told me it would be fine :-( I still have the PM :-(

[Burney]

Yeah but I've also seen him claim that - rightly or wrongly - Marxism means something different now that it did then blah blah blah...

And you don't have to go near Marxist beliefs to be terrified by what he and Corbyn would do to this country with a majority.

Right. So when he didn't have a Shadow Cabinet position and could be honest about it, he said he was a Marxist, but when he actually had to worry about winning elections (and knows that would lose votes), he said something different. And you choose to believe him in the latter instance rather than the former? :rubchin:

Of course they're terrifying. Their policies are undiluted authoritarian state socialism. Because they're Marxists.

[Burney]

On the night of the election you told me it would be fine :-( I still have the PM :-(

I know. I can't apologise enough. If it's any consolation, I think I was trying to convince myself as much as anything.

As I said to someone the other day, I'd be quietly confident if that c@nt May hadn't made such an unholy fúckfest of the last election. For all the good signs, I can't relax for a moment.

[WES]

Right. So when he didn't have a Shadow Cabinet position and could be honest about it, he said he was a Marxist, but when he actually had to worry about winning elections (and knows that would lose votes), he said something different. And you choose to believe him in the latter instance rather than the former? :rubchin:

Of course they're terrifying. Their policies are undiluted authoritarian state socialism. Because they're Marxists.

Hmmm - well if I'm honest I couldn't offer you a good explanation of where socialism ends and Marxism begins so I'm not really qualified to say what he is or isn't.

I do think it's fair to say that in some cases power and the desire to retain it can soften your views. Could also be the other way around of course but I'm guessing that if they did gain power it wouldn't be quite as bad as I sometimes think it might be.

That's my only hope :-(

[Burney]

Hmmm - well if I'm honest I couldn't offer you a good explanation of where socialism ends and Marxism begins so I'm not really qualified to say what he is or isn't.

I do think it's fair to say that in some cases power and the desire to retain it can soften your views. Could also be the other way around of course but I'm guessing that if they did gain power it wouldn't be quite as bad as I sometimes think it might be.

That's my only hope :-(

I'd say it'll be a lot worse. The whole point with revolutionary Marxism is to get the levers of power by any means necessary and, once you have them, to do whatever the fúck you like. Democracy is just one of many means to an end for this lot, not an end in itself.

[Burney]

On the night of the election you told me it would be fine :-( I still have the PM :-(

Does this help?


New Kantar poll, 14-18 Nov: 18-pt Tory lead
Con 45% +8
Labour 27% ±0
Lib Dem 16% -1
Green 3% ±0
Brexit Party 2% -7
(Change from 7-11 Nov; respondents couldn't choose BXP where stood down – but even if they could only 3%)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10VghdgYgnws-XNg0MDYCHfVKmXc3tpdX/view

[Monty92]

I know. I can't apologise enough. If it's any consolation, I think I was trying to convince myself as much as anything.

As I said to someone the other day, I'd be quietly confident if that c@nt May hadn't made such an unholy fúckfest of the last election. For all the good signs, I can't relax for a moment.

This has perked me up...........


Farage says Brexit party and Tories operating unofficial non-aggression pacts in some areas against Labour
Kate Proctor
Nigel Farage has said his Brexit party might do pacts with the Tories on a local basis in the general election.

After his plea to Boris Johnson to form an official “leave alliance” was rebuffed he said that campaigners might choose to organise themselves on the ground informally instead.

He said it was a situation that would be out of his control but the Brexit party or Tories might essentially run paper candidates in key Labour marginals.

Speaking in Peterborough after an election rally, he said:

This is an election in which there are remain deals being done and Brexit deals being done at local level, it’s not particularly surprising.

I’m aware of some areas in which we may be trying very hard and they [the Conservatives] may or may not be trying very hard, and in the neighbouring seat it might be the other way round. I’m aware of it. But I can’t manage it.

The Brexit party is standing 274 candidates at the election after deciding to withdraw 317 candidates from Tory-held seats so as not to split the vote after Johnson said he backed a Canada-style free trade deal after Britain left the EU.

Farage’s party believe they have a strong chance in 150 Labour seats - areas the Tories traditionally cannot win over.

Brexit Party MEP for London, Lance Forman, has already urged candidates to form local pacts. He posted this on Twitter last week.

[Monty92]

Does this help?


New Kantar poll, 14-18 Nov: 18-pt Tory lead
Con 45% +8
Labour 27% ±0
Lib Dem 16% -1
Green 3% ±0
Brexit Party 2% -7
(Change from 7-11 Nov; respondents couldn't choose BXP where stood down – but even if they could only 3%)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10VghdgYgnws-XNg0MDYCHfVKmXc3tpdX/view

I think I saw that poll and instantly noticed that their methodology was based on the assumption of a significantly smaller youth vote than in 2017. So forgive me for not jizzing in my pants just yet.

[Burney]

I think I saw that poll and instantly noticed that their methodology was based on the assumption of a significantly smaller youth vote than in 2017. So forgive me for not jizzing in my pants just yet.

Yes, I saw that. I assume it's based on it being December and young people being feckless c@nts, but even so.

I'm merely trying to look at the cumulative evidence and daring to dream.

[PSRB]

Yes, I saw that. I assume it's based on it being December and young people being feckless c@nts, but even so.

I'm merely trying to look at the cumulative evidence and daring to dream.

40+ seat majority and I will be very happy. Hope for atrocious weather

[Burney]

40+ seat majority and I will be very happy. Hope for atrocious weather

I'd be ecstatic with that. Even 20 would do.

[Yesterday Once More]

40+ seat majority and I will be very happy. Hope for atrocious weather


So long as it isn't too snowy for the pensioners the timing is perfect. The yoof will be in full Christmas party mode and voting will be the last thing on many of their minds.

[PSRB]

Sky latest Poll has Tories down 3 but still a 12 point lead. Mind you, it's in their interest for it to be close