As the transfer window silliness has not started, let's switch to Brexit

[WES]

rather amusing watching Farage on Question Time and Andrew Marr. Whilst I don't actually think he's a racist f*ckwit, what is worrying about Farage is his ability to over simplify a complex issue and come up with a solution that isn't practical or will have an impact he isn't willing to discuss. A good example is the complexity of Brexit negotiations which apparently would have gone swimmingly if we had simply held back on the 39bil and asked for a free trade deal.

Yeah, because it's that simple Nigel. :rolleyes:

Now I must say, I do have sympathy for him on the Marr interview. Clearly Marr had no desire to do anything other than a hatchet job on him. Far better would have been asking him to explain how exactly a free trade deal would solve the Irish border issue (it wouldn't) or how many of the 17.4mil who voted Leave did he think would not have voted for a hard Brexit (surely it is a non-zero number and it would require only 634K to switch their vote in order to change the result) given that the Leave campaign made it clear we would leave with a deal.

I did like the idea that he's open to a second referendum. I have never really believed in one but have come to the conclusion that there are only two options; Remain or a hard Brexit, and it makes sense to me given the political deadlock we have that a referendum with those two options might be the best idea.

[Pokster]

rather amusing watching Farage on Question Time and Andrew Marr. Whilst I don't actually think he's a racist f*ckwit, what is worrying about Farage is his ability to over simplify a complex issue and come up with a solution that isn't practical or will have an impact he isn't willing to discuss. A good example is the complexity of Brexit negotiations which apparently would have gone swimmingly if we had simply held back on the 39bil and asked for a free trade deal.

Yeah, because it's that simple Nigel. :rolleyes:

Now I must say, I do have sympathy for him on the Marr interview. Clearly Marr had no desire to do anything other than a hatchet job on him. Far better would have been asking him to explain how exactly a free trade deal would solve the Irish border issue (it wouldn't) or how many of the 17.4mil who voted Leave did he think would not have voted for a hard Brexit (surely it is a non-zero number and it would require only 634K to switch their vote in order to change the result) given that the Leave campaign made it clear we would leave with a deal.

I did like the idea that he's open to a second referendum. I have never really believed in one but have come to the conclusion that there are only two options; Remain or a hard Brexit, and it makes sense to me given the political deadlock we have that a referendum with those two options might be the best idea.

Sorry, i must have missed on the Ballot form where it said stay or leave (with a deal)..... a second ref' should have 2 options, leave with no deal or leave with TM's deal... anything else is a cop out for what the country originally voted for

[PSRB]

Sorry, i must have missed on the Ballot form where it said stay or leave (with a deal)..... a second ref' should have 2 options, leave with no deal or leave with TM's deal... anything else is a cop out for what the country originally voted for

Agree. I'm very much looking forward to Brexit Party giving Labour and Conservatives a bloody nose on 23rd

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

He [Farage] believes a second vote will see Leave's share increase and I'm beginning to suspect he'll be right. I have noticed, with people in my own social circle, how much quieter the leavers are. I think remain may well be the archetypal vociferous minority who are convinced they will romp a second referendum based on nothing more than the rather noisy echo chamber they inhabit.

[WES]

Agree. I'm very much looking forward to Brexit Party giving Labour and Conservatives a bloody nose on 23rd

Are you that confident that all 17.4mil people were happy to Leave with a hard Brexit? Not sure how anyone can come to that conclusion given that the narrative of the Leave campaign was very much that that would not happen.

Even Farage accepts that. :shrug:

[Ash]

He [Farage] believes a second vote will see Leave's share increase and I'm beginning to suspect he'll be right. I have noticed, with people in my own social circle, how much quieter the leavers are. I think remain may well be the archetypal vociferous minority who are convinced they will romp a second referendum based on nothing more than the rather noisy echo chamber they inhabit.

GPWM.

The demonisation of leavers has cowed many into silence I expect. I have had to self-censor at work for three years in fear of my job.

[WES]

GPWM.

The demonisation of leavers has cowed many into silence I expect. I have had to self-censor at work for three years in fear of my job.

Yes, don't get me wrong, even though I voted Remain and would now support a second referendum, if I had to bet I would bet that Leave via hard Brexit wins with a similar majority. I'm even considering voting Leave this time such is my disgust with the EU executive cretins.

But I think there is a strong argument for the referendum that I described.

[Pokster]

Yes, don't get me wrong, even though I voted Remain and would now support a second referendum, if I had to bet I would bet that Leave via hard Brexit wins with a similar majority. I'm even considering voting Leave this time such is my disgust with the EU executive cretins.

But I think there is a strong argument for the referendum that I described.

There should not be an option to stay if there is a second vote, the country voted to leave so the ONLY options should be Hard Brexit or a compromise deal with all the options known in advance

[Monty92]

GPWM.

The demonisation of leavers has cowed many into silence I expect. I have had to self-censor at work for three years in fear of my job.

You should move to Kent, mate.

[Monty92]

Yes, don't get me wrong, even though I voted Remain and would now support a second referendum, if I had to bet I would bet that Leave via hard Brexit wins with a similar majority. I'm even considering voting Leave this time such is my disgust with the EU executive cretins.

But I think there is a strong argument for the referendum that I described.

The referendum you describe would be inherently fixed as it would split the leave vote.

(Edited: meant for Pokster)

[WES]

The referendum you describe would be inherently fixed as it would split the leave vote.

(Edited: meant for Pokster)

Um, yeah, but that's OK when both the options involve leaving.

Good lord. :hehe:

[Sir C]

Um, yeah, but that's OK when both the options involve leaving.

Good lord. :hehe:

You may have been on holiday and missed it, but we've already had a vote on this question and the electorate chose the 'Leave' option, so that bit's done.

I'm surprised you hadn't heard about it. It's been on the news and everything.

[Pokster]

The referendum you describe would be inherently fixed as it would split the leave vote.

(Edited: meant for Pokster)

Did you read my bit about there onloy being 2 options for the vote......

[Monty92]

Wot ever mate :rolleyes:


Did you read my bit about there onloy being 2 options for the vote......

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

He [Farage] believes a second vote will see Leave's share increase and I'm beginning to suspect he'll be right. I have noticed, with people in my own social circle, how much quieter the leavers are. I think remain may well be the archetypal vociferous minority who are convinced they will romp a second referendum based on nothing more than the rather noisy echo chamber they inhabit.

I'm sure your social circle gives us a much greater insight than the 20-odd nationwide polls this year, Herbs. Which is lucky given Leave hadn't had a lead for 12 months. 2 way or 3 way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Remain/Leave

[WES]

I'm sure your social circle gives us a much greater insight than the 20-odd nationwide polls this year, Herbs. Which is lucky given Leave hadn't had a lead for 12 months. 2 way or 3 way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Un ion_membership_referendum#Remain/Leave

Has there ever been a Remain v No Deal poll? A recent one ideally...

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Has there ever been a Remain v No Deal poll? A recent one ideally...

I just linked you every single poll. They're all explained. 3 ways are below.