So - what will the vote result be tonight?

[WES]

I reckon it will be closer than expected, close enough that the Tories will portray it as a first step in getting the deal over the line.

I also reckon that at some point tonight John McDonnell will be interviewed and my blood pressure will close in on 210/140.

[SWv2]

I reckon it will be closer than expected, close enough that the Tories will portray it as a first step in getting the deal over the line.

I also reckon that at some point tonight John McDonnell will be interviewed and my blood pressure will close in on 210/140.

When is Brexit date?

[Pokster]

I reckon it will be closer than expected, close enough that the Tories will portray it as a first step in getting the deal over the line.

I also reckon that at some point tonight John McDonnell will be interviewed and my blood pressure will close in on 210/140.

well. closer than expedcted means it won't be the worse result in 95 yrs... it will be a blood bath and both side will still make out they won... we won't ever leave the EU imo

[IUFG]

well. closer than expedcted means it won't be the worse result in 95 yrs... it will be a blood bath and both side will still make out they won... we won't ever leave the EU imo

lost vote and an extension to A50 imo

1st July, we'll be electing MEPs again...

[Burney]

lost vote and an extension to A50 imo

1st July, we'll be electing MEPs again...

Thing is, the only way that can happen is by destroying the Tory party - and very possibly the Labour Party.
All in all, a GE would be my favoured outcome. Imagine an election contested by two parties who can’t summon up a coherent or meaningful manifesto on the main question we’re voting on?
The death of party politics!
Effectively electing individuals rather than parties!
Actual democracy!
Wouldn’t that be marvellous? :cloud9:

[IUFG]

Thing is, the only way that can happen is by destroying the Tory party - and very possibly the Labour Party.
All in all, a GE would be my favoured outcome. Imagine an election contested by two parties who can’t summon up a coherent or meaningful manifesto on the main question we’re voting on?
The death of party politics!
Effectively electing individuals rather than parties!
Actual democracy!
Wouldn’t that be marvellous? :cloud9:

I can't help but think the same about the end of party politics.

Still, a general election?

Why not? Shirley, Corbyn is still not electable given his somewhat píss poor history of anti-semtism and, well, everything else?

[Burney]

I can't help but think the same about the end of party politics.

Still, a general election?

Why not? Shirley, Corbyn is still not electable given his somewhat píss poor history of anti-semtism and, well, everything else?

That’s the whole joy of it. Nobody is electable. The redundancy of the party system is becoming increasingly apparent and that’s a great thing.

[PSRB]

I can't help but think the same about the end of party politics.

Still, a general election?

Why not? Shirley, Corbyn is still not electable given his somewhat píss poor history of anti-semtism and, well, everything else?

Quite an achievement that amongst this utter cluster****, Labour are still 6 points behind the Tories in the latest opinion polls

[Pokster]

Quite an achievement that amongst this utter cluster****, Labour are still 6 points behind the Tories in the latest opinion polls

Not a shock, no party has a policy that they all agree onm, so every party will have a fudge of a policy that makes the general public think they are an utter waste of space, and none of them worth electing.

[IUFG]

... and none of them worth electing.

absolutely correct, imo.

best of a bad bunch lottery .

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

That’s the whole joy of it. Nobody is electable. The redundancy of the party system is becoming increasingly apparent and that’s a great thing.

Agreed. Let's go back to the Georgian-Victorian parliamentary system.

With a limited franchise. The thick, the northerners and Tory sympathisers and other right wingers shouldn't be allowed to vote. Just me and my missus in fact.

But we need a form of PR to break it. {How did you vote in the AV ref btw} Ideally STV with multi-member constituencies.

But Parl won't vote for that. Turkeys don't vote for Xmas. Well, except poor, northern, racist turkeys who don't understand the basics of international trade.

[Rich]

That’s the whole joy of it. Nobody is electable. The redundancy of the party system is becoming increasingly apparent and that’s a great thing.

But how would we know who to vote for?! We would actually have to go and listen to things they had to say...

[7sisters]

Thing is, the only way that can happen is by destroying the Tory party - and very possibly the Labour Party.
All in all, a GE would be my favoured outcome. Imagine an election contested by two parties who can’t summon up a coherent or meaningful manifesto on the main question we’re voting on?
The death of party politics!
Effectively electing individuals rather than parties!
Actual democracy!
Wouldn’t that be marvellous? :cloud9:

That would depend upon the individuals, shirley ?

[Burney]

But how would we know who to vote for?! We would actually have to go and listen to things they had to say...

Yes! An engaged, self-selecting electorate - What a radical democratic notion, eh? No more voting for colours because that’s what grandad did. Marvellous!

[Burney]

That would depend upon the individuals, shirley ?

Exactly. Fourth-rate individuals would no longer be protected by wrapping themselves in party colours. Surely you must see the benefits?

[Rich]

Yes! An engaged, self-selecting electorate - What a radical democratic notion, eh? No more voting for colours because that’s what grandad did. Marvellous!

Would it not make it difficult to agree on anything, though? Anything from general decision making to electing a Cabinet.

[Burney]

Would it not make it difficult to agree on anything, though? Anything from general decision making to electing a Cabinet.

Since when did democracy become about agreeing on stuff? :shrug:

[Ash]

Agreed. Let's go back to the Georgian-Victorian parliamentary system.

With a limited franchise. The thick, the northerners and Tory sympathisers and other right wingers shouldn't be allowed to vote. Just me and my missus in fact.

But we need a form of PR to break it. {How did you vote in the AV ref btw} Ideally STV with multi-member constituencies.

But Parl won't vote for that. Turkeys don't vote for Xmas. Well, except poor, northern, racist turkeys who don't understand the basics of international trade.

At least they have an understanding of the basics of democratic accountability. And they cannot possibly be as thick as elitist, fake-left cùnts who think they'll be able to implement socialist policies after the next election when their darling neoliberal EU won't even let Italy pass a Keynsian, anti-austerity budget.

See you on the other side of the barricade. :wave: I'll be the one in the yellow vest. You'll be the one egging on the coppers with the machine guns. :vsign:

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

At least they have an understanding of the basics of democratic accountability. And they cannot possibly be as thick as elitist, fake-left cùnts who think they'll be able to implement socialist policies after the next election when their darling neoliberal EU won't even let Italy pass a Keynsian, anti-austerity budget.

See you on the other side of the barricade. :wave: I'll be the one in the yellow vest. You'll be the one egging on the coppers with the machine guns. :vsign:

Really, Ash?

I'm in Paris atm.

Was at the Gilet Jaune manif at the Arc de Triomphe on Sat. Tear gassed several times.

Wanna see the 5 min film about the French boxer who beat the CRS up the week before that I made in the 2-3 days before arriving on Tues and going to the protest on Sat?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wx42uqb921j0535/Boxer%2002%20Subs%20720p.mp4?dl=0

But, yeah, I'm the neo-lib Tory and you're the rebel.

[Ash]

Really, Ash?

I'm in Paris atm.

Was at the Gilet Jaune manif at the Arc de Triomphe on Sat. Tear gassed several times.

Wanna see the 5 min film about the French boxer who beat the CRS up the week before that I made in the 2-3 days before arriving on Tues and going to the protest on Sat?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wx42uqb921j0535/Boxer%2002%20Subs%20720p.mp4?dl=0

But, yeah, I'm the neo-lib Tory and you're the rebel.

Fair play to you, GG - but Macron epitomises the EU elite, so how can you be supporting both sides?

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Fair play to you, GG - but Macron epitomises the EU elite, so how can you be supporting both sides?

I'm not supporting Macron. All my old free rave mates wanted Melenchon.

Unless I've unknowingly did a Trump type "mispeak" and genuinely accidently said do when I meant don't, what has made you think I like Macron?

ffs, all my Frog mates have been moaning about him since before the election.

[bbrian]

Fair play to you, GG - but Macron epitomises the EU elite, so how can you be supporting both sides?

He's very hard to nail down ...Dago and Septic are two of his fav terms , yet he gives out about the racist northerners ...he's a conflicted man our GG

[Ash]

He's very hard to nail down ...Dago and Septic are two of his fav terms , yet he gives out about the racist northerners ...he's a conflicted man our GG

Yes, he definitely loves hurling around the racial pejoratives and displaying outright bigotry to the northern working class. I think he does it because he can get away with it on here.

[Ash]

I'm not supporting Macron. All my old free rave mates wanted Melenchon.

Unless I've unknowingly did a Trump type "mispeak" and genuinely accidently said do when I meant don't, what has made you think I like Macron?

ffs, all my Frog mates have been moaning about him since before the election.

You support the EU Elite and treat those who oppose it with contempt. You despise democracy as is evident all all your ravings on here. Macron is a creature of the technocratic nobility that is the European ruling class whose side you have taken.

The demands of the GJ boil down to seeking greater democratic accountability, which is the antithesis of what Macron and the EU stand for.

[Burney]

You support the EU Elite and treat those who oppose it with contempt. You despise democracy as is evident all all your ravings on here. Macron is a creature of the technocratic nobility that is the European ruling class whose side you have taken.

The demands of the GJ boil down to seeking greater democratic accountability, which is the antithesis of what Macron and the EU stand for.

Poor old gg is emblematic of a large proportion of the pro-EU lobby. All their political lives, they've considered themselves left of centre, anti-materialist, progressive, anti-establishment, champions of the working classes and anti-authority, only to discover that, when the rubber hits the road, they are in fact profoundly conservative, profoundly bourgeois snobs who would prefer to cling to an undemocratic, supranational protectionist, corporatist bureaucracy than accept a democratic decision made by people they instinctively consider their social and intellectual inferiors.

I mean, many of us always knew how hypocritical and self-serving the so-called progressive middle-class left has always been, but they really have shown themselves up very badly in the last couple of years.

So for poor old gg, he sees chaps lobbing bricks at coppers and instinctively thinks he should be on their side. However, the minute 'the people' threaten to change anything about his comfortable existence, he sh1ts his pants and clings to bourgeois authority.

[Peter]

Poor old gg is emblematic of a large proportion of the pro-EU lobby. All their political lives, they've considered themselves left of centre, anti-materialist, progressive, anti-establishment, champions of the working classes and anti-authority, only to discover that, when the rubber hits the road, they are in fact profoundly conservative, profoundly bourgeois snobs who would prefer to cling to an undemocratic, supranational protectionist, corporatist bureaucracy than accept a democratic decision made by people they instinctively consider their social and intellectual inferiors.

I mean, many of us always knew how hypocritical and self-serving the so-called progressive middle-class left has always been, but they really have shown themselves up very badly in the last couple of years.

So for poor old gg, he sees chaps lobbing bricks at coppers and instinctively thinks he should be on their side. However, the minute 'the people' threaten to change anything about his comfortable existence, he sh1ts his pants and clings to bourgeois authority.


:hehe::hehe:

Bit harsh

[Viva Prat Vegas]

But bang on the money

Burney gets my vote

[Peter]

But bang on the money

Burney gets my vote

I think the last two years has shown the majority of us, on both sides, to be rather confused and hypocritical in some of our political views.

[IUFG]

I think the last two years has shown the majority of us, on both sides, to be rather confused and hypocritical in some of our political views.

At least Jeremy has stuck by his "fúck the Jews" principles...

[Burney]

I think the last two years has shown the majority of us, on both sides, to be rather confused and hypocritical in some of our political views.

I think this in no small degree because we have been clinging to party structures that are utterly unfit for the purpose. We've been hammering the square pegs of right/left party divisions into the round holes of modern politics and it's left us all rather schizoid.

In fact, the really interesting thing about politics is that the average voter is simultaneously far to the left AND far to the right of mainstream politics. We've tried to apply the sticking plaster of centrism to this gaping wound, but it's just not going to hold much longer.

[Peter]

I think this in no small degree because we have been clinging to party structures that are utterly unfit for the purpose. We've been hammering the square pegs of right/left party divisions into the round holes of modern politics and it's left us all rather schizoid.

In fact, the really interesting thing about politics is that the average voter is simultaneously far to the left AND far to the right of mainstream politics. We've tried to apply the sticking plaster of centrism to this gaping wound, but it's just not going to hold much longer.

Our party divide never Worked with regard to the EU which is largely why it was kept off the agenda for so long.

Both major parties have been led from their respective centres for nearly a century, barThatcher, and now Corbyn. I think it works in the main but leans towards consistency and stability. It doesnt facilitate anything resembling major change.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

He's very hard to nail down ...Dago and Septic are two of his fav terms , yet he gives out about the racist northerners ...he's a conflicted man our GG

I'm not a cultural relativist.

French, Indians, Ravers, travellers, all the Arsenal players and managers who gave me joy - v. Good.

Every other EU country I've lived in, incl Spain, obv - good

Tories, northerners, yanks, yank owners, and some çunt who drops Ozil, loses us Rambo and gets Sven to go cos he only wants to sign cloggers he used to manage in Spain or wherever - bad.

Not rocket science, is it?

[Peter]

I'm not a cultural relativist.

French, Indians, Ravers, travellers, all the Arsenal players and managers who gave me joy - v. Good.

Every other EU country I've lived in, incl Spain, obv - good

Tories, northerners, yanks, yank owners, and some çunt who drops Ozil, loses us Rambo and gets Sven to go cos he only wants to sign cloggers he used to manage in Spain or wherever - bad.

Not rocket science, is it?

Ramsey is ****. I have nothing more to add.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Yes, he definitely loves hurling around the racial pejoratives and displaying outright bigotry to the northern working class. I think he does it because he can get away with it on here.

I do it to people's faces.

I just can't stand Goras (whites) who play the working class greivance card when in the eyes of my mates among the street kids of Delhi, their first world passport and their welfare state makes them the same as the Duke of fücking Westminster.

And all the northerners I know live I met in London ravers or Euro teknivals, so they all agree. Much better than the north - that's why they left for somewhere more civilised.

[Peter]

I do it to people's faces.

I just can't stand Goras (whites) who play the working class greivance card when in the eyes of my mates among the street kids of Delhi, their first world passport and their welfare state makes them the same as the Duke of fücking Westminster.

And all the northerners I know live I met in London ravers or Euro teknivals, so they all agree. Much better than the north - that's why they left for somewhere more civilised.

Delhi is ****. I have nothing more to add.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Poor old gg is emblematic of a large proportion of the pro-EU lobby. All their political lives, they've considered themselves left of centre, anti-materialist, progressive, anti-establishment, champions of the working classes and anti-authority, only to discover that, when the rubber hits the road, they are in fact profoundly conservative, profoundly bourgeois snobs who would prefer to cling to an undemocratic, supranational protectionist, corporatist bureaucracy than accept a democratic decision made by people they instinctively consider their social and intellectual inferiors.

I mean, many of us always knew how hypocritical and self-serving the so-called progressive middle-class left has always been, but they really have shown themselves up very badly in the last couple of years.

So for poor old gg, he sees chaps lobbing bricks at coppers and instinctively thinks he should be on their side. However, the minute 'the people' threaten to change anything about his comfortable existence, he sh1ts his pants and clings to bourgeois authority.

1. Actually, for most of my adult life I considered myself an anarchist trying to create a spiritual revolution by putting up banging sound systems and getting people to reach spiritual planes through strong hullucinogens. So while you clearly think I'm insane I'm not your average middle class lefty.

For me, travelling Europe doing raves and festies for 2-3 decades after uni was a lifestyle.

So I couldn't care less even if the Brexit scare stories were true. If it was an undemocratic neolib bosses club, or an undemocratic communists dictatorship in waiting, I couldn't care.

I'm a Londoner raver and a EuroTeknival traveller. Not a Britisher.

And as long as I can blat around Europe with my European mates getting off my tits, that's a good enough reason to be a 100% Remainer.

On why I support the Gilet Jaunes - nothing to do with them lobbing rocks at coppers. Unlike many of my punk, traveller mates, I'm a Gandhian pacifist on that score.

It's because when de Gaulle created the 5e Republic in '58, the rule by decree "ordonnances" were only meant to be used in the rarest of national security emergencies.

Macron is now using them all the time to rule by decree.

So the people I was peacefully protesting with were doing so for constitution change - the Melenchonists among them want a 6e Republic based on the UK parlaimentary system.

I would have thought you'd have supported that, B.

[IUFG]

I reckon it will be closer than expected, close enough that the Tories will portray it as a first step in getting the deal over the line.

I also reckon that at some point tonight John McDonnell will be interviewed and my blood pressure will close in on 210/140.

And this vote of no confidence...

Now that there is 'confidence' in HM Government, shirley now is the time for Corbyn to fall on his sword?

If he can't topple the government during this shítshow, he never, ever, will.

[Pokster]

And this vote of no confidence...

Now that there is 'confidence' in HM Government, shirley now is the time for Corbyn to fall on his sword?

If he can't topple the government during this shítshow, he never, ever, will.

Well since the Tory party and the DUP have a majority the chances of him winning it was fairly remote...... Only a Tory with such a safe majority would have risked voting against her as why would you want to risk losing your job

[IUFG]

Well since the Tory party and the DUP have a majority the chances of him winning it was fairly remote...... Only a Tory with such a safe majority would have risked voting against her as why would you want to risk losing your job


So why ask for it? Is it cos he is thick?

Further evidence that he believes party politics appears to trump the most important national issue for decades.

[Pokster]

So why ask for it? Is it cos he is thick?

Further evidence that he believes party politics appears to trump the most important national issue for decades.

It was to make a show...which seems to be about 75% of politics nowerdays...now I hate Michael Gove, but loved his speach yesterday when he ripped Vince Cable in 2

[Burney]

So why ask for it? Is it cos he is thick?

Further evidence that he believes party politics appears to trump the most important national issue for decades.

This clip is priceless. The silly old fùcker. :hehe:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1085809316282728448

[IUFG]

This clip is priceless. The silly old fùcker. :hehe:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1085809316282728448

:hehe: :hehe: