View Full Version : So my two favourites football stories so far this year are
the impact of Torreira on Arsenal and the impending implosion of Jose Mourinho in Manchester.
And if I'm honest, I'm taking more pleasure in the latter. :-)
Not only has he alienated Pogba (something some of us predicted the summer he was purchased) but he's now working on the rest of players as well. He knew they were in trouble when it got to Jones and Bailly. :hehe:
That's bound to go down well in the dressing room, Jose. :clap:
Who wants to set a book on him not making it through the year?
I said a while back that he won't be there by Christmas.
Jones missing that penalty, was so utterly inevitable.
Luis Anaconda
09-26-2018, 09:51 AM
the impact of Torreira on Arsenal and the impending implosion of Jose Mourinho in Manchester.
And if I'm honest, I'm taking more pleasure in the latter. :-)
Not only has he alienated Pogba (something some of us predicted the summer he was purchased) but he's now working on the rest of players as well. He knew they were in trouble when it got to Jones and Bailly. :hehe:
That's bound to go down well in the dressing room, Jose. :clap:
Who wants to set a book on him not making it through the year?
If it is him or Pogba, he goes definitely, and he is hardly making conciliatory moves. The captaincy thing is bizarre - why give it to him in the first place? Seems a touch short-sighted. Suddenly away to West Ham looks a much harder prospect - surviving til Christmas is a longshot.
Sir C
09-26-2018, 10:00 AM
the impact of Torreira on Arsenal and the impending implosion of Jose Mourinho in Manchester.
And if I'm honest, I'm taking more pleasure in the latter. :-)
Not only has he alienated Pogba (something some of us predicted the summer he was purchased) but he's now working on the rest of players as well. He knew they were in trouble when it got to Jones and Bailly. :hehe:
That's bound to go down well in the dressing room, Jose. :clap:
Who wants to set a book on him not making it through the year?
I'd rather he stayed. He's clearly a spent force; if he goes, they might get someone competent in.
I'd rather he stayed. He's clearly a spent force; if he goes, they might get someone competent in.
*Must* you ruin all my fun? :-(
Luis Anaconda
09-26-2018, 10:05 AM
I'd rather he stayed. He's clearly a spent force; if he goes, they might get someone competent in.
I think that's why he may stay - not many options around. United fans think they just need to flutter their eyelids and Zizou will come running but I doubt after the hassles with Real he'll take a job with a dressing room in a mess. Pochettino is probably not going to jump ship halfway through a season. Maybe Benitez will take on the job as he did at Chelsea :hehe:
Who wants to set a book on him not making it through the year?
He's favourite to be the next to go... around 3/1
https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/next-manager-to-leave-post
he'll be sacked by Christmas.
His MO is fúcking obvious, I'm surprised employers still fall for it.
Initial success, contract extension, turns out he's a massive **** (again), paid off to the tune of c.£20m. Happy daze in the Mourinho house.
If it is him or Pogba, he goes definitely, and he is hardly making conciliatory moves. The captaincy thing is bizarre - why give it to him in the first place? Seems a touch short-sighted. Suddenly away to West Ham looks a much harder prospect - surviving til Christmas is a longshot.
I think you're being generous with 'bizarre', it's mind boggling. The only explanations I can come up with for him having told Pogba he will never captain Utd again are that he thinks there is a chance that he can win the battle with Pogba (as you said, he won't) or that Mourinho really has lost it.
I suppose we should never be surprised at what that man's ego is capable of.
I think you're being generous with 'bizarre', it's mind boggling. The only explanations I can come up with for him having told Pogba he will never captain Utd again are that he thinks there is a chance that he can win the battle with Pogba (as you said, he won't) or that Mourinho really has lost it.
I suppose we should never be surprised at what that man's ego is capable of.
Most of the Man Utd supporters I know would be happy to see the back of the ****.
It must pain them all terribly to see City playing beautiful football and winning things :cloud9:
Peter
09-26-2018, 10:34 AM
I think that's why he may stay - not many options around. United fans think they just need to flutter their eyelids and Zizou will come running but I doubt after the hassles with Real he'll take a job with a dressing room in a mess. Pochettino is probably not going to jump ship halfway through a season. Maybe Benitez will take on the job as he did at Chelsea :hehe:
I am rather enjoying the fact that Sanchez is not doing very well there :)
I am rather enjoying the fact that Sanchez is not doing very well there :)
:nod: Although, I'm still concerned he'll come good again at some point
What is AW took the reins at United? :hide:
Peter
09-26-2018, 11:04 AM
:nod: Although, I'm still concerned he'll come good again at some point
What is AW took the reins at United? :hide:
It seems as though it isnt actually that easy to manage United when you cant just go and outspend everyone else. Puts a greater gloss on what Ferguson achieved in his latter years there.
It also underlines the quality of Wenger's work on the first half of his time with us- these are the only two individuals in the history of the Premier League to achieve consistent success despite being outspent by rivals.
:nod: Although, I'm still concerned he'll come good again at some point
What is AW took the reins at United? :hide:
When we go to Old Trafford every time Wenger stood up our support could sing
:music: Arsenal reject, Arsenal reject :music:
Peter
09-26-2018, 11:08 AM
When we go to Old Trafford every time Wenger stood up our support could sing
:music: Arsenal reject, Arsenal reject :music:
Too much. Way, way too much....
I'd rather he stayed. He's clearly a spent force; if he goes, they might get someone competent in.
From F365
Phil Jones (Manchester United)
“Then the penalties come, and somebody has to miss. And when I saw it going after the sixth, the seventh (penalty) I knew that we were going to be in trouble with Jones, with Eric (Bailly). I knew we were going to be in trouble then.” And with that, Jose Mourinho hurled Phil Jones under a bus.
Too much. Way, way too much....
So :music: Sit down you *****phile :music: is out of the question? :sherlock:
7sisters
09-26-2018, 11:28 AM
From F365
Phil Jones (Manchester United)
“Then the penalties come, and somebody has to miss. And when I saw it going after the sixth, the seventh (penalty) I knew that we were going to be in trouble with Jones, with Eric (Bailly). I knew we were going to be in trouble then.” And with that, Jose Mourinho hurled Phil Jones under a bus.
He's always been a wannabe rock star. I don't think he's ever come to terms that a manager should sit quietly confident in the background, while his young charges are in the spotlight and grabbing the glory.
The man's a c*nt, basically.
Peter
09-26-2018, 11:30 AM
So :music: Sit down you *****phile :music: is out of the question? :sherlock:
I would be intrigued to see how, as United manager, he would manage to lose to United. Would be some achievement :)
He's always been a wannabe rock star. I don't think he's ever come to terms that a manager should sit quietly confident in the background, while his young charges are in the spotlight and grabbing the glory.
The man's a c*nt, basically.
This just now from Sky Sports is very amusing:
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1044906594318929921
I would be intrigued to see how, as United manager, he would manage to lose to United. Would be some achievement :)
He'd probably buy Fabregas from Chelsea just so that he could throw pizza at Unai post match. Not to mention convincing Riley to come out of retirement.
Can you imagine the state of Charles if Wenger ended up managing Utd with Fabregas in the team? :hehe:
Peter
09-26-2018, 11:41 AM
He'd probably buy Fabregas from Chelsea just so that he could throw pizza at Unai post match. Not to mention convincing Riley to come out of retirement.
Can you imagine the state of Charles if Wenger ended up managing Utd with Fabregas in the team? :hehe:
Did you have to bring up Mike Riley? :(
Did you have to bring up Mike Riley? :(
Oops. Let's hope IUFG doesn't see this and post that f*cking video for about the thousandth time. :-(
Peter
09-26-2018, 11:48 AM
Oops. Let's hope IUFG doesn't see this and post that f*cking video for about the thousandth time. :-(
I always ending up watching it again and getting furious- again :furious::banghead:
I always ending up watching it again and getting furious- again
Me too :-(
The part that drives me most mental isn't even Riley's cheating. When that games highlights get replayed on SS the commentator who I think is Robbie Earle says 'nope, not for me, he was looking for it' when the replay of Ferdinand hacking down Freddie is shown. :furious:
If I recall the live game, Andy Grey said something like 'it's a big decision' followed by complete silence when the replay showed it being a clear red.
But I'm definitely over it :nod:
I always ending up watching it again and getting furious- again :furious::banghead:
******************* RILEY KLAXON *******************
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM747L9Wf8M
******************* RILEY KLAXON *******************
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM747L9Wf8M
Yup, watched it again.
I'm definitely not over it :nod:
Peter
09-26-2018, 12:30 PM
Me too :-(
The part that drives me most mental isn't even Riley's cheating. When that games highlights get replayed on SS the commentator who I think is Robbie Earle says 'nope, not for me, he was looking for it' when the replay of Ferdinand hacking down Freddie is shown. :furious:
If I recall the live game, Andy Grey said something like 'it's a big decision' followed by complete silence when the replay showed it being a clear red.
But I'm definitely over it :nod:
To be fair, Andy Grey is pretty clear that there is contact and Ferdinand leans in. He is basically saying it should be a red. He is then massively critical of Riley for not boooking Nevillefor the first awful challenge on Reyes.
However...both he and Tyler find Van Nistelrooy's stamp on Ashley Cole pretty much acceptable and Andy Grey firmly believes that Rooney's dive was a penalty. I cant quite believe either of those.
Burney
09-26-2018, 01:03 PM
To be fair, Andy Grey is pretty clear that there is contact and Ferdinand leans in. He is basically saying it should be a red. He is then massively critical of Riley for not boooking Nevillefor the first awful challenge on Reyes.
However...both he and Tyler find Van Nistelrooy's stamp on Ashley Cole pretty much acceptable and Andy Grey firmly believes that Rooney's dive was a penalty. I cant quite believe either of those.
I think what bothers me is that nobody in the media has ever gone back to that game and asked what the fùck happened? It ought to be infamous.
I think what bothers me is that nobody in the media has ever gone back to that game and asked what the fùck happened? It ought to be infamous.
I'm sure Sky did a bit with G Nev on it, I remember getting angry and turning over
Burney
09-26-2018, 01:14 PM
I'm sure Sky did a bit with G Nev on it, I remember getting angry and turning over
Yes, I remember him having a good chuckle about it. But quite how a team systematically assaulting the opposition with the collusion of the referee is a subject for chuckles, I'll never know. Why has no-one ever asked Riley to justify himself? Why is it not known as the night that Arsenal were cheated out of their 50 unbeaten game run?
Luis Anaconda
09-26-2018, 01:36 PM
Yes, I remember him having a good chuckle about it. But quite how a team systematically assaulting the opposition with the collusion of the referee is a subject for chuckles, I'll never know. Why has no-one ever asked Riley to justify himself? Why is it not known as the night that Arsenal were cheated out of their 50 unbeaten game run?
Not like Riley is in a position of power like actually in charge of all Premier League referees now or anything. That would make me angry
Burney
09-26-2018, 01:50 PM
Not like Riley is in a position of power like actually in charge of all Premier League referees now or anything. That would make me angry
OK, you're always Mr Rational about these things, la. Do you never look at that game and think there was more to it than just a ref having a shìt night?
Yes, I remember him having a good chuckle about it. But quite how a team systematically assaulting the opposition with the collusion of the referee is a subject for chuckles, I'll never know. Why has no-one ever asked Riley to justify himself? Why is it not known as the night that Arsenal were cheated out of their 50 unbeaten game run?
I thought Wenger didn't go far enough as well. My recollection of his comments were something along the lines of 'they did not approach the game with the right spirit'.
Whereas what he should have said was 'they couldn't play football with us so they kicked us off the park and Mike Riley let them do it. And if that wasn't enough he then ignored two blatant red cards and awarded them a penalty for a dive. His performance today was disgraceful and it brings shame upon the game of football that this was allowed to happen'.
I thought Wenger didn't go far enough as well. My recollection of his comments were something along the lines of 'they did not approach the game with the right spirit'.
Whereas what he should have said was 'they couldn't play football with us so they kicked us off the park and Mike Riley let them do it. And if that wasn't enough he then ignored two blatant red cards and awarded them a penalty for a dive. His performance today was disgraceful and it brings shame upon the game of football that this was allowed to happen'.
and I'd question whether it's actually possible to be that incompetent, without actually being bent
Peter
09-26-2018, 02:10 PM
Yes, I remember him having a good chuckle about it. But quite how a team systematically assaulting the opposition with the collusion of the referee is a subject for chuckles, I'll never know. Why has no-one ever asked Riley to justify himself? Why is it not known as the night that Arsenal were cheated out of their 50 unbeaten game run?
Grey and Tyler are sat there saying 'surely Arsenal should have expected United to try and ruffle them within the laws of the game'. This would have been less infuriating if they hadn't, at the time, been watching Van Nistelroooy rake his studs down Ashley Cole's shin two yards away from the linesman.
They seem to be criticising our players for their reaction when, from what I remember, we did little other than complain to the ref a bit- far less vehemently than the United players when he had the cheek to speak to them about their latest 'challenge'.
Burney
09-26-2018, 02:20 PM
and I'd question whether it's actually possible to be that incompetent, without actually being bent
The most lenient interpretation I can make is that it was simply the perfect storm moment when all the pre-existing factors like the intrinsic pro-United/anti-Arsenal bias by Sky, referees and the media; Old Trafford; Ferguson's influence, etc, etc came together to create an absolute travesty of a game. Somehow it was felt that Arsenal were due their comeuppance by whatever means and that United were the team to do it. And afterwards, everyone went along with that story because to do otherwise would've involved admitting that those pre-existing factors did actually exist.
Peter
09-26-2018, 02:25 PM
The most lenient interpretation I can make is that it was simply the perfect storm moment when all the pre-existing factors like the intrinsic pro-United/anti-Arsenal bias by Sky, referees and the media; Old Trafford; Ferguson's influence, etc, etc came together to create an absolute travesty of a game. Somehow it was felt that Arsenal were due their comeuppance by whatever means and that United were the team to do it. And afterwards, everyone went along with that story because to do otherwise would've involved admitting that those pre-existing factors did actually exist.
I think the biggest factor in that game was the game the season before- the Battle of Old Trafford. We lost the PR war over that and I think, without question, there was a feeling that we deserved whatever happened to us next time.
Of course, the 'Battle of Old Trafford' was itself instigated by two awful refereeing decisions beginning with an outrageous piece of cheating from Van Nistelrooy. I can remember other football fans saying they cheered when KEown lumped him. He was almost universally despised as a cheat
Burney
09-26-2018, 02:28 PM
I think the biggest factor in that game was the game the season before- the Battle of Old Trafford. We lost the PR war over that and I think, without question, there was a feeling that we deserved whatever happened to us next time.
Of course, the 'Battle of Old Trafford' was itself instigated by two awful refereeing decisions beginning with an outrageous piece of cheating from Van Nistelrooy. I can remember other football fans saying they cheered when KEown lumped him. He was almost universally despised as a cheat
Sure, but you also have to remember how much our unbeaten season and wonderful football got on people's tits. People were sick of it and that 50th game was clearly set up by the FA to be a showdown. That in itself gave tacit permission for something a bit odd to go on.
Luis Anaconda
09-26-2018, 02:32 PM
OK, you're always Mr Rational about these things, la. Do you never look at that game and think there was more to it than just a ref having a shìt night?
Absolutely, although I think it is a big step to suggest corruption and I generally haven't heard anything from "those in the know" to remotely suggest it either. There are several factors at play -
The kicking: Riley was certainly known to have a United bent shall we say, whether it was conscious or unconscious, and I have no doubt that Ferguson would have used that to see how much his team could get away with. Added to the fact that refs were under pressure to allow thugs to get away with murder, I mean let the game flow and not get card happy and once again United played to the ref (and to be fair Cole and Edu produced two horrendous tackles on Ronaldo), I don't think there is as much mystery there as some make out two very physical teams playing at a tempo that no one else in the league would match. In fact you could make a case for some of our treatment of Ronaldo down the years - a New Year's Day game at Highbury when Cygan put him into row A (he was aiming for Z) several times comes to mind - was just as shameful and unpunished as the assault on Reyes, yet Ronaldo went on to become the best player in the world and didn't wuss off back to Iberia in a sulk.
The penalty: Obviously no argument that it was a dive but it goes in the same category as "seen 'em given". At full pelt it looked a penalty and it's called conning a ref for a reason (of course, they do say you can't con a honest man)
Foul on Freddie: One hundred per cent bottle job, knew it was a red card if he gave a free kick so gave nothing. Homer ref but again not unusual at OT
Assault on Cole: This for me was the worst one - pure thuggery right under the lineman's nose and nothing given. Really no excuse, or possible reason for that
VERDICT: Mike Riley is a corrupt **** - but Mike Dean is worse :judge:
Peter
09-26-2018, 02:44 PM
Absolutely, although I think it is a big step to suggest corruption and I generally haven't heard anything from "those in the know" to remotely suggest it either. There are several factors at play -
The kicking: Riley was certainly known to have a United bent shall we say, whether it was conscious or unconscious, and I have no doubt that Ferguson would have used that to see how much his team could get away with. Added to the fact that refs were under pressure to allow thugs to get away with murder, I mean let the game flow and not get card happy and once again United played to the ref (and to be fair Cole and Edu produced two horrendous tackles on Ronaldo), I don't think there is as much mystery there as some make out two very physical teams playing at a tempo that no one else in the league would match. In fact you could make a case for some of our treatment of Ronaldo down the years - a New Year's Day game at Highbury when Cygan put him into row A (he was aiming for Z) several times comes to mind - was just as shameful and unpunished as the assault on Reyes, yet Ronaldo went on to become the best player in the world and didn't wuss off back to Iberia in a sulk.
The penalty: Obviously no argument that it was a dive but it goes in the same category as "seen 'em given". At full pelt it looked a penalty and it's called conning a ref for a reason (of course, they do say you can't con a honest man)
Foul on Freddie: One hundred per cent bottle job, knew it was a red card if he gave a free kick so gave nothing. Homer ref but again not unusual at OT
Assault on Cole: This for me was the worst one - pure thuggery right under the lineman's nose and nothing given. Really no excuse, or possible reason for that
VERDICT: Mike Riley is a corrupt **** - but Mike Dean is worse :judge:
Agree with most of that. The penalty would have been given whoever had been refereeing that game. Same goes for the foul on Freddie- I dont think any ref would have given that and sent Rio off.
Assault on Cole, the linesman sees this clearly, says nothing, and Riley does not show any interest in even looking at him. That is beyond weird.
The two challenges by Neville on Reyes are outrageous. The fact that he doesnt book him for the first one is just beyond ridiculous. Even Andy Grey couldnt believe his eyes andwas still going on about it after the game.
Our players clearly had the previous year in the back of their minds because they were really calm about the whole thing. Normally they would have been screaming at the ref. I am sure Wenger told them to just put up with whatever happened and keep calm.
Peter
09-26-2018, 02:45 PM
Sure, but you also have to remember how much our unbeaten season and wonderful football got on people's tits. People were sick of it and that 50th game was clearly set up by the FA to be a showdown. That in itself gave tacit permission for something a bit odd to go on.
It was annoying me a little bit. I didnt really care about it, I just wanted to win the league again. The unbeaten season was the special bit, not the entire run.
Luis Anaconda
09-26-2018, 03:16 PM
Agree with most of that. The penalty would have been given whoever had been refereeing that game. Same goes for the foul on Freddie- I dont think any ref would have given that and sent Rio off.
Assault on Cole, the linesman sees this clearly, says nothing, and Riley does not show any interest in even looking at him. That is beyond weird.
The two challenges by Neville on Reyes are outrageous. The fact that he doesnt book him for the first one is just beyond ridiculous. Even Andy Grey couldnt believe his eyes andwas still going on about it after the game.
Our players clearly had the previous year in the back of their minds because they were really calm about the whole thing. Normally they would have been screaming at the ref. I am sure Wenger told them to just put up with whatever happened and keep calm.
I'll be honest p and say I have blocked them from my mind and have no wish to see them again. The year before was another factor but also plays along with the United knew they could push the limits. As much as I despise Riley, I would much rather save the majority of my contempt for United
As much as I despise Riley, I would much rather save the majority of my contempt for United
A bit like love, contempt isn't like a finite resource; you can hate Riley and United in equal measures.
Go on. You know you want to ...
Peter
09-26-2018, 03:27 PM
I'll be honest p and say I have blocked them from my mind and have no wish to see them again. The year before was another factor but also plays along with the United knew they could push the limits. As much as I despise Riley, I would much rather save the majority of my contempt for United
Of course. I dont think Riley was corrupt but he was known to be hopelessly inept atOld TRafford and almost physically incapable of giving a decision against them. You do have to ask why he was appointed for that game. The course of the match was decided the minute he was appointed.
United were always going to go after us but they would have been rubbing their hands the moment they knew he had been appointed. Without question, it ramped everything up a notch for them.
Reyes was always going to be the target. Nobody in their right mind would think they could intimidate Vieira, or Bergkamp, or Henry. Reyes was the obvious weak link in that respect.
At the very least, I was disappointed that nobody really even mentioned that it was quite sad that United, at that time the richest club in England by far with their greatest ever manager, had to resort to kicking us off the pitch and diving just to cope with us. Corruption aside, that part is undeniable but was viewed by too many as just part of the english game.
Luis Anaconda
09-26-2018, 03:27 PM
A bit like love, contempt isn't like a finite resource; you can hate Riley and United in equal measures.
Go on. You know you want to ...
Thank you I. Sort of valuable advice one expects from HR
Peter
09-26-2018, 03:28 PM
A bit like love, contempt isn't like a finite resource; you can hate Riley and United in equal measures.
Go on. You know you want to ...
But.... if they know they are going to get away with it, why wouldn't they do it? I have to admit, I would.....
For me the disgrace is that they knew they could get away with it. Its beyond 'pushing your luck'.... they KNEW.
But.... if they know they are going to get away with it, why wouldn't they do it? I have to admit, I would.....
For me the disgrace is that they knew they could get away with it. Its beyond 'pushing your luck'.... they KNEW.
those interviews when Wenger (ahem) left The Arsenal and the United talking heads were saying how they changed the way they played (only) for The Arsenal.
How they would physically target players and intimidate the ref , then bragging about how they were the best in the league at it :fume:
though for me, it only confirmed what a massive Hampshire fan Paul Scholes is.
Peter
09-26-2018, 03:43 PM
those interviews when Wenger (ahem) left The Arsenal and the United talking heads were saying how they changed the way they played (only) for The Arsenal.
How they would physically target players and intimidate the ref , then bragging about how they were the best in the league at it :fume:
though for me, it only confirmed what a massive Hampshire fan Paul Scholes is.
Right. THere is not much to 'being good at it'. Any idiot can do it. The art is in getting away with it andthey didnt getaway with it because they were clever, or cute, or subtle. They got away with it because refs were scared of them and their manager.
Not really anything to boast about, is it.
They got away with it because refs were scared of them and their manager.
oh, nail and head, p.
and the real question is 'why?'
Burney
09-26-2018, 04:31 PM
oh, nail and head, p.
and the real question is 'why?'
Oh, that's very easy. Ferguson very carefully cultivated the football press to ensure that his views were always given the highest possible prominence. He ran the press by using a carefully-measured balance of carrot and stick, with those who pleased him given increased access and those who displeased him being cast into outer darkness.
This gave him enormous power. It meant that simply by making the right noises he could make sure a referee came under extreme scrutiny if he dared to make a decision that displeased Ferguson. Equally, he could say something about an opposition player that would ensure that player came under referees' increased scrutiny or suggest that United were getting too many penalties given against them or that one of his players needed more protection from referees. Or he could encourage the old 'joke' about Scholesy and his 'forwards' tackles' that meant the dirty cùnt didn't get sent off half as much as he should have. Or he'd say Arsenal were a dirty team, but didn't like it up 'em. Etc.
He managed the press and media beautifully and this meant he got to control things.
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