They made the Pope listen to Daniel O'Donnell?

[Burney]

I mean, I know the Church has committed many crimes against Ireland and that there is a lot of penance to be done, but even so. Making the poor **** listen to Daniel O-Fúcking-Donnell seems a bit vicious.

[Sir C]

I mean, I know the Church has committed many crimes against Ireland and that there is a lot of penance to be done, but even so. Making the poor **** listen to Daniel O-Fúcking-Donnell seems a bit vicious.

When are these people going to get over themselves? They've been banging on about a bit of mild kiddie-fiddling for years and years. What do they want, a (miraculous) medal?

[Burney]

When are these people going to get over themselves? They've been banging on about a bit of mild kiddie-fiddling for years and years. What do they want, a (miraculous) medal?

Professional victimhood, innit. At least if they're whining about being nonced off by priests it stops them whining about us for a few minutes.

Of course, the real and unspoken truth about all this abuse was that EVERY SINGLE **** KNEW IT WAS HAPPENING AT THE TIME! This idea that it came as a terrible shock to them that priests were nonces is a crock of shît. It was an open secret and they were all complicit.

[Luis Anaconda]

Professional victimhood, innit. At least if they're whining about being nonced off by priests it stops them whining about us for a few minutes.

Of course, the real and unspoken truth about all this abuse was that EVERY SINGLE **** KNEW IT WAS HAPPENING AT THE TIME! This idea that it came as a terrible shock to them that priests were nonces is a crock of shît. It was an open secret and they were all complicit.
Only a short respite until this comes out

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3208026/

[Burney]

Only a short respite until this comes out

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3208026/

Is it about demonic nonces, la?

[Luis Anaconda]

Is it about demonic nonces, la?

No the famine for a change

[Sir C]

Only a short respite until this comes out

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3208026/

"the drama follows an Irish Ranger"

An Irish Ranger? Like... Strider? A sort of, wait for it, Begaragorn?

[Burney]

"the drama follows an Irish Ranger"

An Irish Ranger? Like... Strider? A sort of, wait for it, Begaragorn?

Very good. Or Stroider, perhaps?

They can't mean a Royal Irish Ranger, since the regiment wasn't formed until 1968.

[Burney]

No the famine for a change

Ah. Demonic potato blight, then? Marvellous.

[Sir C]

Very good. Or Stroider, perhaps?

They can't mean a Royal Irish Ranger, since the regiment wasn't formed until 1968.

ty b. It looks like a load of depressing old balls anyway. To be avoided at all costs.

Did you ever get to make a start with Bernie Gunther, btw? Dear old Bernie. I kind of miss him.

[Burney]

ty b. It looks like a load of depressing old balls anyway. To be avoided at all costs.

Did you ever get to make a start with Bernie Gunther, btw? Dear old Bernie. I kind of miss him.

Yes. I like him very much. Like a sort of Philip Marlowe with Nazis everywhere. Marvellous.

[Sir C]

Yes. I like him very much. Like a sort of Philip Marlowe with Nazis everywhere. Marvellous.

I have started my novel, by the way. It came to me whilst I was delirious with fever at the weekend. When I awoke I was shaking, soaked in my own sweat and aching kie a car crash victim, but immediately insisted that v take paper and pen and write down the first chapter, which flowed from my lips as if I were reading it. Spent, I returned to sleep, and no more came, but what I have is really, if I say so myself, rather good.

[Burney]

I have started my novel, by the way. It came to me whilst I was delirious with fever at the weekend. When I awoke I was shaking, soaked in my own sweat and aching kie a car crash victim, but immediately insisted that v take paper and pen and write down the first chapter, which flowed from my lips as if I were reading it. Spent, I returned to sleep, and no more came, but what I have is really, if I say so myself, rather good.

How splendidly Romantic of you to dictate your novel to your devoted wife. Oooh, perhaps you have consumption or tertiary syphilis? Or maybe you are in the grip of opium withdrawal?

[Peter]

No the famine for a change

Excellent. There arent any decent films about the famine. This looks right up my street :)

Sure, was God that sent the blight but the English sent the famine :-\

[Sir C]

How splendidly Romantic of you to dictate your novel to your devoted wife. Oooh, perhaps you have consumption or tertiary syphilis? Or maybe you are in the grip of opium withdrawal?

It certainly felt like going cold turkey. Perhaps consumption. I keep coughing into a lace hankie, but, alas, no blood appears.

[Burney]

Excellent. There arent any decent films about the famine. This looks right up my street :)

Sure, was God that sent the blight but the English sent the famine :-\

There was one a few years ago with all the McGann brothers wandering around in the Central Plain complaining about the hunger while in at least two of their cases being not inconsiderably overweight. Very funny, it was.

Of course, Ireland was horribly over-populated at the time. There was never any chance of it sustaining its population even without a famine. The famine simply provided a much-needed demographic corrective.

[Burney]

It certainly felt like going cold turkey. Perhaps consumption. I keep coughing into a lace hankie, but, alas, no blood appears.

How odd. I was oddly sweaty last night, but I put that down to the wife having bought a new thick duvet and put it on the bed while it's still August. :-(

[Sir C]

How odd. I was oddly sweaty last night, but I put that down to the wife having bought a new thick duvet and put it on the bed while it's still August. :-(

I believe it was flu. Like, actual flu, rather than a cold. I read once that you can tell the difference because, with a cold, you'd bend down if you dropped a fiver, but with the flu, you couldn't lift your head if someone told you you'd won the lottery. If that's an accurate assessment, if was the flu.

[Burney]

I believe it was flu. Like, actual flu, rather than a cold. I read once that you can tell the difference because, with a cold, you'd bend down if you dropped a fiver, but with the flu, you couldn't lift your head if someone told you you'd won the lottery. If that's an accurate assessment, if was the flu.

Yes. I had the actual flu last year for the first time in ages. There were points at which I'd have happily welcomed death.

[Peter]

There was one a few years ago with all the McGann brothers wandering around in the Central Plain complaining about the hunger while in at least two of their cases being not inconsiderably overweight. Very funny, it was.

Of course, Ireland was horribly over-populated at the time. There was never any chance of it sustaining its population even without a famine. The famine simply provided a much-needed demographic corrective.

Not really. THe population was around half that of England and Wales at the time despite being more than half its size.

It was the system of land ownership that meant that the population could not sustain itself. In other words, english *******s.

The argument that there wasnt enough food in Ireland during the famine is utter nonsense.

[IUFG]

, but I put that down to the wife having bought a new thick duvet and put it on the bed while it's still August. :-(

I turned the central heating on last night for the first time since April.
Purely for preventative maintenance purposes of course.

It worked fine. :cloud9:

wd Worcester Bosch boilers

[Burney]

Not really. THe population was around half that of England and Wales at the time despite being more than half its size.

It was the system of land ownership that meant that the population could not sustain itself. In other words, english *******s.

The argument that there wasnt enough food in Ireland during the famine is utter nonsense.

The comparison with England and Wales isn't valid, since the amounts of viable farmland in Ireland and England are simply not comparable. The whole of Central Ireland is taken up with a peat bog that is wholly unviable for agriculture, while its coastal regions are rocky, sparse and have very poor soil.
The reason the potato was so vital to the sustenance of the population was because it was the only thing that would fvcking grow in many parts of the country. You'd grow potatoes, keep a pig that you'd slaughter once a year (not the same pig, obvs) and that was about it. Thus, when the blight hit, the population became unsustainable. That is one of the reasons that Ireland's population did not recover after the Famine. The land could simply not sustain a larger population without monocultural dependence on the potato - and they weren't going to make that mistake again.

[Peter]

The comparison with England and Wales isn't valid, since the amounts of viable farmland in Ireland and England are simply not comparable. The whole of Central Ireland is taken up with a peat bog that is wholly unviable for agriculture, while its coastal regions are rocky, sparse and have very poor soil.
The reason the potato was so vital to the sustenance of the population was because it was the only thing that would fvcking grow in many parts of the country. You'd grow potatoes, keep a pig that you'd slaughter once a year (not the same pig, obvs) and that was about it. Thus, when the blight hit, the population became unsustainable. That is one of the reasons that Ireland's population did not recover after the Famine. The land could simply not sustain a larger population without monocultural dependence on the potato - and they weren't going to make that mistake again.

Not true. The reliance on the potato (and particularly the 'Lumper' variety) was to do with yield per acre, not quality of soil. It was the only thing the poor *******s could grow in their tiny parcels of land that would feed a family.

The lumper provided a much larger yield than other spuds but was more susceptible to blight.

There were huge swathes of land throughout the mid west and the western seaboard in the hands of english (and irish) nobility. These produced massive amounts of food, almost all of which was exported to england where people could pay for it.

It was these estates, the huge rents and oppressive tenancy conditions that put rural Ireland at the mercy of the lumper.

[Luis Anaconda]

Not really. THe population was around half that of England and Wales at the time despite being more than half its size.

It was the system of land ownership that meant that the population could not sustain itself. In other words, english *******s.

The argument that there wasnt enough food in Ireland during the famine is utter nonsense.

Famine means scarcity of food - this sentence is therefore utter nonsense

[Burney]

Not true. The reliance on the potato (and particularly the 'Lumper' variety) was to do with yield per acre, not quality of soil. It was the only thing the poor *******s could grow in their tiny parcels of land that would feed a family.

The lumper provided a much larger yield than other spuds but was more susceptible to blight.

There were huge swathes of land throughout the mid west and the western seaboard in the hands of english (and irish) nobility. These produced massive amounts of food, almost all of which was exported to england where people could pay for it.

It was these estates, the huge rents and oppressive tenancy conditions that put rural Ireland at the mercy of the lumper.

As anyone who grows potatoes will tell you, p, ALL potatoes are susceptible to blight. Modern commercial varieties have to be sprayed about nine times to keep it off. Equally, the point about Ireland's general agricultural poorness stands. Just because it's green doesn't mean you can grow or rear anything on it.

And the idea of large-scale farmers selling produce to the highest bidder rather than giving it to peasants with the arse out of their trousers is hardly an immoral concept, is it? The peasants had their potatoes, the wheat was exported to England and it all worked very well until the blight came - at which point it became very hard to turn the system around in such a way as to provide famine relief quickly enough to be effective. This was due to many factors - not least a lack of adequate civil and political infrastructure on the ground and the need to channel decisions through central government in London in order to get anything done. Were there failures? Absolutely. Huge ones (not least of imagination). Were they sinister in nature? Not really, no.

The mistake, as always with you lefties, is to suggest conspiracy, when in fact the problem is cock-up.

[Peter]

Famine means scarcity of food - this sentence is therefore utter nonsense

Yet undeniably true. Which is precisely why many refuse to refer to it as the famine and instead call it the Great Hunger- An Gorta Mor.

As you say, where there is plenty of food there is no famine.

[Peter]

As anyone who grows potatoes will tell you, p, ALL potatoes are susceptible to blight. Modern commercial varieties have to be sprayed about nine times to keep it off. Equally, the point about Ireland's general agricultural poorness stands. Just because it's green doesn't mean you can grow or rear anything on it.

And the idea of large-scale farmers selling produce to the highest bidder rather than giving it to peasants with the arse out of their trousers is hardly an immoral concept, is it? The peasants had their potatoes, the wheat was exported to England and it all worked very well until the blight came - at which point it became very hard to turn the system around in such a way as to provide famine relief quickly enough to be effective. This was due to many factors - not least a lack of adequate civil and political infrastructure on the ground and the need to channel decisions through central government in London in order to get anything done. Were there failures? Absolutely. Huge ones (not least of imagination). Were they sinister in nature? Not really, no.

The mistake, as always with you lefties, is to suggest conspiracy, when in fact the problem is cock-up.

The system of land ownership was neither conspiracy nor cock up. It was what everything was in those days- a system designed solely in the interests of the few to the great detriment of the many.

What it wasnt was an error of some kind. It therefore cannot be removed as a principal cause.

THere were some genuine attempts at relief that didnt work, others that were quite successful. There were also many in government who chose their own beliefs over attempts to save millions of lives. There were many who celebrated the Irish leaving in their hundreds of thousands.

I dont subscribe to the genocide approach the US takes in teaching this but I find attempts to excuse the British government from responsibility quite laughable. There were exceptions, and there were some wonderful examples of humanitarian efforts (not least the Quakers) but there was too little from an indifferent government from 47 onwards.

It remains one of the darkest clouds in our history.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

The system of land ownership was neither conspiracy nor cock up. It was what everything was in those days- a system designed solely in the interests of the few to the great detriment of the many.

What it wasnt was an error of some kind. It therefore cannot be removed as a principal cause.

THere were some genuine attempts at relief that didnt work, others that were quite successful. There were also many in government who chose their own beliefs over attempts to save millions of lives. There were many who celebrated the Irish leaving in their hundreds of thousands.

I dont subscribe to the genocide approach the US takes in teaching this but I find attempts to excuse the British government from responsibility quite laughable. There were exceptions, and there were some wonderful examples of humanitarian efforts (not least the Quakers) but there was too little from an indifferent government from 47 onwards.

It remains one of the darkest clouds in our history.

Why are a millions paddies worth more than 15m Indians murdered by Disraeli's oppressive, imperialist regime in 1877-8, eh?

No-one bangs on about that. You're all racists. If the paddies had brown skin none of you would care one way or the other.

[Burney]

Why are a millions paddies worth more than 15m Indians murdered by Disraeli's oppressive, imperialist regime in 1877-8, eh?

No-one bangs on about that. You're all racists. If the paddies had brown skin none of you would care one way or the other.

Well famine is endemic in India (and was long before British rule) due to an over dependence on climate for agricultural success or failure that is less the case in temperate climates. Equally, there are loads of people in India, so what's a few million here or there?

[Burney]

The system of land ownership was neither conspiracy nor cock up. It was what everything was in those days- a system designed solely in the interests of the few to the great detriment of the many.

What it wasnt was an error of some kind. It therefore cannot be removed as a principal cause.

THere were some genuine attempts at relief that didnt work, others that were quite successful. There were also many in government who chose their own beliefs over attempts to save millions of lives. There were many who celebrated the Irish leaving in their hundreds of thousands.

I dont subscribe to the genocide approach the US takes in teaching this but I find attempts to excuse the British government from responsibility quite laughable. There were exceptions, and there were some wonderful examples of humanitarian efforts (not least the Quakers) but there was too little from an indifferent government from 47 onwards.

It remains one of the darkest clouds in our history.

Of course all these things happened, but there is often a serious underestimation of the problems caused by distance (both actual and figurative). I'm not seeking to excuse these failures, but I am highly resistant to partisan (or political) interpretations of the famine and the response to it.

And before you start getting all lefty about it, I'd point out to you that the last great peacetime famine on the European continent took place under the auspices of a regime determined to act in the best interests of the many rather than the few.

[Peter]

Of course all these things happened, but there is often a serious underestimation of the problems caused by distance (both actual and figurative). I'm not seeking to excuse these failures, but I am highly resistant to partisan (or political) interpretations of the famine and the response to it.

And before you start getting all lefty about it, I'd point out to you that the last great peacetime famine on the European continent took place under the auspices of a regime determined to act in the best interests of the many rather than the few.

I don't think I am giving you a partisan interpretation. I think I am being incredibly fair. Of course I am tempted to blame the entire thing on Thatcher and, by extension, you.....

My point wasnt really about the attempts at relief, it was more around the causes. These were not deliberately geared towards creating famine which is why the genocide argument is rubbish.

[Burney]

I don't think I am giving you a partisan interpretation. I think I am being incredibly fair. Of course I am tempted to blame the entire thing on Thatcher and, by extension, you.....

My point wasnt really about the attempts at relief, it was more around the causes. These were not deliberately geared towards creating famine which is why the genocide argument is rubbish.

I think we agree, then. It is my contention that Irish republicans always fundamentally misunderstand English actions towards the Irish in history as motivated by malice, when in fact most of Britain's 'crimes' against Ireland have been ones of inattention and negligence. The Irish don't really get that the English - when all's said and done - don't really give a fvck about Ireland. They revel in this notion that we all spend our days plotting to do them down when in fact most English people barely know anything about Ireland at all and care even less.

[Peter]

I think we agree, then. It is my contention that Irish republicans always fundamentally misunderstand English actions towards the Irish in history as motivated by malice, when in fact most of Britain's 'crimes' against Ireland have been ones of inattention and negligence. The Irish don't really get that the English - when all's said and done - don't really give a fvck about Ireland. They revel in this notion that we all spend our days plotting to do them down when in fact most English people barely know anything about Ireland at all and care even less.

We dont completely disagree, certainly. Only over the lumper :)

[Peter]

Why are a millions paddies worth more than 15m Indians murdered by Disraeli's oppressive, imperialist regime in 1877-8, eh?

No-one bangs on about that. You're all racists. If the paddies had brown skin none of you would care one way or the other.


One of the darkest clouds. I wasn't competing for number one.

Anyway,q you are always banging on about India. Let it go, its a ****hole :)

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Well famine is endemic in India (and was long before British rule) due to an over dependence on climate for agricultural success or failure that is less the case in temperate climates. Equally, there are loads of people in India, so what's a few million here or there?

Morgan will drop Kohli costing Eng the CWC final now. That's your karma. Thinking paddies are superior to a culture that wrote that came up with sankrit and maths centuries and millennia before the wops taught us how to read and write.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

One of the darkest clouds. I wasn't competing for number one.

Anyway,q you are always banging on about India. Let it go, its a ****hole :)

Got me visa, getting ticket in a bit, glw already there, so no, won't let it go.

People are more civilised there. Ok, the BJP turning it into the saffron Saudia Arabia and killing all the Muzzies and Dalits (untouchables) is a bügger, but I know what it can be. Pity I don't like spicy food. There was one period when I lived on chocolate eclairs and lime Bacardi breezers.

[Sir C]

Got me visa, getting ticket in a bit, glw already there, so no, won't let it go.

People are more civilised there. Ok, the BJP turning it into the saffron Saudia Arabia and killing all the Muzzies and Dalits (untouchables) is a bügger, but I know what it can be. Pity I don't like spicy food. There was one period when I lived on chocolate eclairs and lime Bacardi breezers.

It draws you back, India. Like a dog to its own vomit, perhaps? I don't know. But every time I get the urge to return I fight it. I'm too old for the hassle, man.

It's dear old Sri Lanka for me from now on.

Maybe one last trip to Udaipur. Oh Udaipur!

[Burney]

Got me visa, getting ticket in a bit, glw already there, so no, won't let it go.

People are more civilised there. Ok, the BJP turning it into the saffron Saudia Arabia and killing all the Muzzies and Dalits (untouchables) is a bügger, but I know what it can be. Pity I don't like spicy food. There was one period when I lived on chocolate eclairs and lime Bacardi breezers.

Thing about killing all the Untouchables, I'd have thought, is who do you then get to dispose of the bodies? :rubchin:

[Burney]

Morgan will drop Kohli costing Eng the CWC final now. That's your karma. Thinking paddies are superior to a culture that wrote that came up with sankrit and maths centuries and millennia before the wops taught us how to read and write.

Lord, I don't think paddies are superior to Indians at all. Indians are just - y'know - further away. And more numerous and thus anonymous.

[Luis Anaconda]

I think we agree, then. It is my contention that Irish republicans always fundamentally misunderstand English actions towards the Irish in history as motivated by malice, when in fact most of Britain's 'crimes' against Ireland have been ones of inattention and negligence. The Irish don't really get that the English - when all's said and done - don't really give a fvck about Ireland. They revel in this notion that we all spend our days plotting to do them down when in fact most English people barely know anything about Ireland at all and care even less.
This is very much something I wish to say to many of them but can't be arsed since years of prejudice outweigh wisdom. Also, still haven't got my passport sorted yet :hide:

[Ash]

This is very much something I wish to say to many of them but can't be arsed since years of prejudice outweigh wisdom. Also, still haven't got my passport sorted yet :hide:

I heard you are closing in on German citizenship. :watson:

[Peter]

Got me visa, getting ticket in a bit, glw already there, so no, won't let it go.

People are more civilised there. Ok, the BJP turning it into the saffron Saudia Arabia and killing all the Muzzies and Dalits (untouchables) is a bügger, but I know what it can be. Pity I don't like spicy food. There was one period when I lived on chocolate eclairs and lime Bacardi breezers.

God almighty, you don't like the one good thing about India? :)

I quite liked Bangalore.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

It draws you back, India. Like a dog to its own vomit, perhaps? I don't know. But every time I get the urge to return I fight it. I'm too old for the hassle, man.

It's dear old Sri Lanka for me from now on.

Maybe one last trip to Udaipur. Oh Udaipur!

I wish I could afford to go to the Octopussy Udaipur palace hotel. Please go, and please post some pics. I will be feeling a little jealous while wishing you the best of times.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Thing about killing all the Untouchables, I'd have thought, is who do you then get to dispose of the bodies? :rubchin:

Muzzies.

And vice versa.

The BJP are lovely, aren't they?

Did you know that according to my glw, they have these vans with vets in driving around states, in case there's a poorly moo-moo. Poorly Dalit or Muzzie just gets left to die.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Lord, I don't think paddies are superior to Indians at all. Indians are just - y'know - further away. And more numerous and thus anonymous.

But do you not think it interesting that you and Peter and others can spend all afternoon discussing which breed of spud was responsible for a million dead paddies, but very few (perhaps no) people on this board knew anything about the 15m dead in the 1877-8 famine?

My fückwitted lefty mates band on about what Churchill did all the time, but none of them ever mention Dizzy.

[Burney]

But do you not think it interesting that you and Peter and others can spend all afternoon discussing which breed of spud was responsible for a million dead paddies, but very few (perhaps no) people on this board knew anything about the 15m dead in the 1877-8 famine?

My fückwitted lefty mates band on about what Churchill did all the time, but none of them ever mention Dizzy.

Not really. Ireland is literally a lot closer to home. Its inhabitants speak English (sort of); to an outsider its culture is virtually indistinguishable from ours; and many of us have the dubious privilege of having family members among their number. of course we know and care more about it than about 15 million Indians dying many thousands of miles away. By the same token, I would imagine most Indians know more about the 1877-8 famine than they do about the Irish Potato Famine.