:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

[Monty92]

I'd almost forgotten how good that feels.

Dirty hebrew c*nts lost the World Cup

[Burney]

I'd almost forgotten how good that feels.

Dirty hebrew c*nts lost the World Cup

I’m actually slightly ashamed of how happy this has made me. :hehe: :-\

[Monty92]

I’m actually slightly ashamed of how happy this has made me. :hehe: :-\

My joy is only tempered by the SJWs around the country who were desperate for us to lose for fear of a surge in jingoistic nationalism if they'd won the thing.

[Burney]

My joy is only tempered by the SJWs around the country who were desperate for us to lose for fear of a surge in jingoistic nationalism if they'd won the thing.

Ah, but consider the change in national sentiment. Discontent will rise. Has England's run helped keep May in office?

[barrybueno]

My joy is only tempered by the SJWs around the country who were desperate for us to lose for fear of a surge in jingoistic nationalism if they'd won the thing.

You n all you **** :vsign:

[Pokster]

I’m actually slightly ashamed of how happy this has made me. :hehe: :-\

That is because you and Monty are both ****s and can go **** themselves imho

[Monty92]

That is because you and Monty are both ****s and can go **** themselves imho

At one point there were five - FIVE!!!! - Spurs players on the pitch, plus Kyle 'Des' Walker!!!!!!

And we're weird for wanting them to lose??????????????

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

At one point there were five - FIVE!!!! - Spurs players on the pitch, plus Kyle 'Des' Walker!!!!!!

And we're weird for wanting them to lose??????????????

. . . . . . . .

[WES]

At one point there were five - FIVE!!!! - Spurs players on the pitch, plus Kyle 'Des' Walker!!!!!!

And we're weird for wanting them to lose??????????????

Yes, because they weren't Spurs players, they were England players. The clue was in the shirt they were wearing.

[Pokster]

At one point there were five - FIVE!!!! - Spurs players on the pitch, plus Kyle 'Des' Walker!!!!!!

And we're weird for wanting them to lose??????????????

I didn't call you weird.. I called you C U N T

[Monty92]

Yes, because they weren't Spurs players, they were England players. The clue was in the shirt they were wearing.

Oh, right. Well that changes everything :rolleyes:

[Luis Anaconda]

Oh, right. Well that changes everything :rolleyes:

Yes it does - you just don't realise because you an immature, arrogant, ignorant piece of ****

[WES]

Oh, right. Well that changes everything :rolleyes:

It does if you're a rational adult. It doesn't if you're at best juvenile or at worst a tragic c*nt.

[Monty92]

It does if you're a rational adult. It doesn't if you're at best juvenile or at worst a tragic c*nt.

Or perhaps I'm just cognitively consistent?

[Monty92]

Yes it does - you just don't realise because you an immature, arrogant, ignorant piece of ****

Someone's a sore loser :hehe:

[Sir C]

Yes it does - you just don't realise because you an immature, arrogant, ignorant piece of ****

Someone's tired :hehe:

[WES]

Or perhaps I'm just cognitively consistent?

Hating a player because he does something that hurts the club you support is rational (at some level) and cognitively consistent.

Hating a player, regardless of what he is doing now, who once did something that hurt your club is neither rational nor cognitively consistent.

It's just juvenile and pathetic. Did you hate Sol Campbell and refuse to celebrate our unbeaten season because he was once Spurs?

[Monty92]

Hating a player because he does something that hurts the club you support is rational (at some level) and cognitively consistent.

Hating a player, regardless of what he is doing now, who once did something that hurt your club is neither rational nor cognitively consistent.

It's just juvenile and pathetic. Did you hate Sol Campbell and refuse to celebrate our unbeaten season because he was once Spurs?

No, you see, when Sol Campbell signed for Arsenal, he ceased being a Spurs player, voluntarily severing his links with a club I hate, and committing himself to the club I love.

Apart from that it was a ****ing brilliant analogy :thumbup:

[WES]

No, you see, when Sol Campbell signed for Arsenal, he ceased being a Spurs player, voluntarily severing his links with a club I hate, and committing himself to the club I love.

Apart from that it was a ****ing brilliant analogy :thumbup:

So your hatred for a player is all consuming and based on his having a contract with a club that you dislike not on his actual actions and the impact they have on the club you support?

And you're claiming that this is rational and cognitively consistent? :hehe:

[Monty92]

So your hatred for a player is all consuming and based on his having a contract with a club that you dislike not on his actual actions and the impact they have on the club you support?

And you're claiming that this is rational and cognitively consistent? :hehe:

Rational? Certainly not. But consistent, absolutely.

If the way we both claim to feel about Spurs and its players throughout the year is to mean anything at all, I don't see how you cannot feel even slightly emotionally compromised by supporting an England team comprising so many of them.

[Pat Vegas]

Hating a player because he does something that hurts the club you support is rational (at some level) and cognitively consistent.

Hating a player, regardless of what he is doing now, who once did something that hurt your club is neither rational nor cognitively consistent.

It's just juvenile and pathetic. Did you hate Sol Campbell and refuse to celebrate our unbeaten season because he was once Spurs?

I still think this is an English thing.

My dad wants Canada to win the hockey and it's full of players of teams he doesn't like.

[WES]

I still think this is an English thing.

My dad wants Canada to win the hockey and it's full of players of teams he doesn't like.

If you have watched television recently Pat you will have noticed millions, yes millions of English people taking enormous pleasure in the World Cup and England's success in it. I'm willing to bet that a large portion of those people support football clubs to some degree.

The difference is that they are all rational and socially functional human beings. Quite unlike Monty.

[Monty92]

If you have watched television recently Pat you will have noticed millions, yes millions of English people taking enormous pleasure in the World Cup and England's success in it. I'm willing to bet that a large portion of those people support football clubs to some degree.

The difference is that they are all rational and socially functional human beings. Quite unlike Monty.

It's all contrived. No-one cares anywhere near as much as they claim. All these scenes of fans going crazy is heavily confected. Of course they are having fun, but the football is an *excuse* to have fun. That's because international football is inherently incapable of eliciting the same kind of visceral passion as club football. In a country like England, it simply lacks any real sense of tribalism.

[Pokster]

It's all contrived. No-one cares anywhere near as much as they claim. All these scenes of fans going crazy is heavily confected. Of course they are having fun, but the football is an *excuse* to have fun. That's because international football is inherently incapable of eliciting the same kind of visceral passion as club football. In a country like England, it simply lacks any real sense of tribalism.

My God, you do spout an enormous amount of crap

[Peter]

My God, you do spout an enormous amount of crap

I find it hard to believe that he actually means that. If so, he is mightily ****ing thick.

[WES]

I find it hard to believe that he actually means that. If so, he is mightily ****ing thick.

:nod: I expect that he believes every word very deeply

[Monty92]

I find it hard to believe that he actually means that. If so, he is mightily ****ing thick.

I've always been better at this stuff than you guys :shrug:

[Peter]

I've always been better at this stuff than you guys :shrug:

No, you just say you are better. If we were all what we considered ourselves to be then England would have won the World Cup.

If you genuinely think all that passion is contrived then you just do not understand people at all. And the idea that a country like england lacks any real sense of tribalism is laughable.

Of course there is a wider audience who are not football fans who get heavily involved and latch on to the sentiment but this is not the same thing at all. I think you are just getting yourself a bit confused.

[Ash]

If you have watched television recently Pat you will have noticed millions, yes millions of English people taking enormous pleasure in the World Cup and England's success in it. I'm willing to bet that a large portion of those people support football clubs to some degree.

The difference is that they are all rational and socially functional human beings. Quite unlike Monty.

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

[Luis Anaconda]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

This is the post I wanted to write, a.

Apart from the Surrey bit *



*actually two of my favourite players ever are Alec Stewart and Graham Thorpe so even that isn't true

[Ash]

I've always been better at this stuff than you guys :shrug:

What you are better at, my friend, is elevating judgement, instinct and belief in your own superiority over logic, reason, compassion and humanity.

Not that the latter are particularly relevant here. I just put them in to improve the rhythm and rhetoric of the sentence.

[Sir C]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

If you're including me, as I suspect you are, as someone who 'hates England' you are being deliberately mendacious and I am due an apology.

I'll wait.

[Monty92]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously pretty contemptible, but it's at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity :shrug:

[WES]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

Great post, Ash. :nod:

And I think the correlation is more to misanthropy than it is to right wing views. As I mentioned, I think someone would need to be socially dysfunctional on some level to not be able to put their hatred of Spurs players to the side and enjoy this England team.

[WES]

For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously a pretty contemptible position to take, but it's one that is at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity :shrug:

The point that you continue to miss - or at least fail to address - is that anyone who 'hates' a person they have never met in their lives and know virtually nothing about, because of the football club they play for is socially dysfunctional, thick, immature or some combination of all three.

I only 'hate' that Harry Kane makes Spurs a better team, I don't 'hate' Harry Kane. So when he plays for England I have no issue with him at all.

BTW, I think you're all three. :thumbup:

[Luis Anaconda]

For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously a pretty contemptible position to take, but it's one that is at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity :shrug:
Intellectual consistency and integrity :hehe: you ****ing retard

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

If you're including me, as I suspect you are, as someone who 'hates England' you are being deliberately mendacious and I am due an apology.

I'll wait.

Nah c. He's got you, berni and your little pet goat monty to a T :-D

Word Ash!

[Ash]

If you're including me, as I suspect you are, as someone who 'hates England' you are being deliberately mendacious and I am due an apology.

I'll wait.


Of course! I'm terribly sorry for the misunderstanding. Please forgive me for not specifying unambiguously that it was the England football team I was referring to, and not the country itself.

Further, if my memory has failed me and you were not actually one of those calling for the failure of the football team than I apologise for that as well.

[Sir C]

Of course! I'm terribly sorry for the misunderstanding. Please forgive me for not specifying unambiguously that it was the England football team I was referring to, and not the country itself.

Further, if my memory has failed me and you were not actually one of those calling for the failure of the football team than I apologise for that as well.

Both apologies graciously offered and accepted. Thank you.

[Monty92]

The point that you continue to miss - or at least fail to address - is that anyone who 'hates' a person they have never met in their lives and know virtually nothing about, because of the football club they play for is socially dysfunctional, thick, immature or some combination of all three.

I only 'hate' that Harry Kane makes Spurs a better team, I don't 'hate' Harry Kane. So when he plays for England I have no issue with him at all.

BTW, I think you're all three. :thumbup:

Oh I don't really hate them. The notion of genuinely hating someone because of the football team they happen to play for is patently absurd on any rational level.

If I did, your assessment of me would be grossly understated.

Bear in mind I've had to interview a lot of these guys over the years and have never struggled to sublimate how I feel about them on a match day.

I never said any of this was rational :shrug:

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

Both apologies graciously offered and accepted. Thank you.

Except that you did make it quite clear you were desperate for England to lose. You must relinquish at least one of the apologies. You are, I believe, first and foremost a gentleman c?

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

No, you see, when Sol Campbell signed for Arsenal, he ceased being a Spurs player, voluntarily severing his links with a club I hate, and committing himself to the club I love.

Apart from that it was a ****ing brilliant analogy :thumbup:



...and yet you mentioned Kyle 'Des' Walker above. Remember.... he ceased being a Spurs player, voluntarily severing his links with a club you hate.

You should like him 50% more than the other Spurs players

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D


I think one may wish to to distinguish International Football from Tournament Football. Come international week, most of us on here are bitching about the lack of "real" footy and the god awful qualifiers / friendlies. How many fans actually watch the qualifiers with the same interest?

Come tournament finals, we do tend to watch most games. :shrug:

Of course, your last paragraph perfectly encapsulates this board.

[Burney]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

All very nice, a, but you fail to spot the glaring contradiction at the heart of your argument.

You admit that you find this England team preferable to its predecessors containing said ‘thùndercûnts’. In doing so, you concede that your affection or otherwise for England teams is negotiable based on the individuals they contain. Which means that, in essence, you concede that the principle underpinning my distaste for this England team is valid. You are, in other words, no different to me in principle, we just happen to have different criteria. :shrug:

Speaking personally, though, what really bothers me about England football teams is the sheer level of conformity they tap into. I’ve always despised unthinking, reflexive conformity and that is at the heart of what you choose to call my misanthopy. That isn’t to say I’m not outwardly conformist in many respects, but I can say with my hand on my heart that where I conform, it is as a consequence of thought and self-examination. So for instance, I am patriotic because there are many things about this country which are admirable and worth defending. However, those things do not include a mediocre football team teeming with Spurs shítcùnts. And, if I may say so, I find the notion of assessing patriotism based on support for a sports team patently ludicrous. And it’s no less ludicrous when you propose it than when Norman Tebbit does.

For natural-born conformists who have never examined an idea in their lives, of course, England supporting in World Cups is second nature. They are quite able to reconcile hating Spurs 204 weeks out of 208 and then cheering on ‘Harry’ and ‘Alli’ the other four because they’ve never actually bothered thinking about it. Confront them with the parent absurdity of their position and they become enraged and start indulging in convoluted post-rationalisations for their own intellectual inconsistency and reflexive conformity. They will attack you because you have not done the same and use as justification for their attacks that millions of people agree with them and not with you. Because, to the conformist, if everyone’s doing it, it must be right.

I’m afraid I’m just not built that way. :shrug:

[Luis Anaconda]

All very nice, a, but you fail to spot the glaring contradiction at the heart of your argument.

You admit that you find this England team preferable to its predecessors containing said ‘thùndercûnts’. In doing so, you concede that your affection or otherwise for England teams is negotiable based on the individuals they contain. Which means that, in essence, you concede that the principle underpinning my distaste for this England team is valid. You are, in other words, no different to me in principle, we just happen to have different criteria. :shrug:

Speaking personally, though, what really bothers me about England football teams is the sheer level of conformity they tap into. I’ve always despised unthinking, reflexive conformity and that is at the heart of what you choose to call my misanthopy. That isn’t to say I’m not outwardly conformist in many respects, but I can say with my hand on my heart that where I conform, it is as a consequence of thought and self-examination. So for instance, I am patriotic because there are many things about this country which are admirable and worth defending. However, those things do not include a mediocre football team teeming with Spurs shítcùnts. And, if I may say so, I find the notion of assessing patriotism based on support for a sports team patently ludicrous. And it’s no less ludicrous when you propose it than when Norman Tebbit does.

For natural-born conformists who have never examined an idea in their lives, of course, England supporting in World Cups is second nature. They are quite able to reconcile hating Spurs 204 weeks out of 208 and then cheering on ‘Harry’ and ‘Alli’ the other four because they’ve never actually bothered thinking about it. Confront them with the parent absurdity of their position and they become enraged and start indulging in convoluted post-rationalisations for their own intellectual inconsistency and reflexive conformity. They will attack you because you have not done the same and use as justification for their attacks that millions of people agree with them and not with you. Because, to the conformist, if everyone’s doing it, it must be right.

I’m afraid I’m just not built that way. :shrug:

At least Monty was concise in showing himself to be a ****. Waffling with no point but to bore the reader into submission is the tactic of a arrogant cad

[Burney]

At least Monty was concise in showing himself to be a ****. Waffling with no point but to bore the reader into submission is the tactic of a arrogant cad

It’s OK if you didn’t read it all, la. That’s why I utterly destroyed a’s argument in the first two paragraphs - so that those with short attention spans got the gist and didn’t have to bother with the rest. :thumbup:

[Peter]

For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously pretty contemptible, but it's at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity :shrug:

No, your mistake is in believing that everybody else is like you and, as a consequence, their 'passion' is contrived. Not everyone chases intellectual consistency, particularly when it comes to something as spectacularly unintellectual as football.

You are not like other people. Ash explains the motivation for a lot of football fans beautifully above. THere is a genuine irritation in seeing those who clearly dont understand the game at all piping up with their nonsensical views but I would. Have thought an intellectual heavyweight such as yourself would be used to that.

[Luis Anaconda]

It’s OK if you didn’t read it all, la. That’s why I utterly destroyed a’s argument in the first two paragraphs - so that those with short attention spans got the gist and didn’t have to bother with the rest. :thumbup:

I'm still pissed from last night, b (in a proper British sense not an American one) so I'll just stick to being abusive is that's all right with you :vsign:

[Burney]

No, your mistake is in believing that everybody else is like you and, as a consequence, their 'passion' is contrived. Not everyone chases intellectual consistency, particularly when it comes to something as spectacularly unintellectual as football.

You are not like other people. Ash explains the motivation for a lot of football fans beautifully above. THere is a genuine irritation in seeing those who clearly dont understand the game at all piping up with their nonsensical views but I would. Have thought an intellectual heavyweight such as yourself would be used to that.

No, m isn’t like other people. For a start he’s much brighter and thoughtful (not in the sense of being kind, natch) than other people. The fact that he cares about things like intellectual consistency irritates those who do, of course, but I think it’s a good thing. I don’t think he’s ever got a minute imagined other people are like him. He is very aware he is different.

Which is good. Who wants to be like ‘other people’, ffs?

[Peter]

All very nice, a, but you fail to spot the glaring contradiction at the heart of your argument.

You admit that you find this England team preferable to its predecessors containing said ‘thùndercûnts’. In doing so, you concede that your affection or otherwise for England teams is negotiable based on the individuals they contain. Which means that, in essence, you concede that the principle underpinning my distaste for this England team is valid. You are, in other words, no different to me in principle, we just happen to have different criteria. :shrug:

Speaking personally, though, what really bothers me about England football teams is the sheer level of conformity they tap into. I’ve always despised unthinking, reflexive conformity and that is at the heart of what you choose to call my misanthopy. That isn’t to say I’m not outwardly conformist in many respects, but I can say with my hand on my heart that where I conform, it is as a consequence of thought and self-examination. So for instance, I am patriotic because there are many things about this country which are admirable and worth defending. However, those things do not include a mediocre football team teeming with Spurs shítcùnts. And, if I may say so, I find the notion of assessing patriotism based on support for a sports team patently ludicrous. And it’s no less ludicrous when you propose it than when Norman Tebbit does.

For natural-born conformists who have never examined an idea in their lives, of course, England supporting in World Cups is second nature. They are quite able to reconcile hating Spurs 204 weeks out of 208 and then cheering on ‘Harry’ and ‘Alli’ the other four because they’ve never actually bothered thinking about it. Confront them with the parent absurdity of their position and they become enraged and start indulging in convoluted post-rationalisations for their own intellectual inconsistency and reflexive conformity. They will attack you because you have not done the same and use as justification for their attacks that millions of people agree with them and not with you. Because, to the conformist, if everyone’s doing it, it must be right.

I’m afraid I’m just not built that way. :shrug:

I think there are millions of people whose loyalties to the england team are negotiable. This is why we keep hearing about the team 'reconnecting' with the fans. You have chosen to remove yourself from this because there are Spurs players in the team. I think your reason is a bit ****tish but I understand where you are coming from.

What I dont understand is why you are here issuing warnings to those who have gone the other way and embraced the side. Within the context of an AWIMB that you tend to dominate, THEY are the non-conformists. Bravo tot hem- and to me for being one of them.

I dont think an englishman supporting england at a world cup is a particularly good example of rank, unthinking conformity. Ash describes the benefits of being part of something bigger and it is tempting to get caught up in it rather than to sneer on the sidelines. I have tried both and dont feel terribly comfortable with either.

It can also be due to something more than your place of birth. I have a natural affinity to an english style of football as I think most of us do. I quite like seeing lads from Rotherham crashing into silky Colombians. Its fun!

I will give you the Norman Tebbit bit. Glad to see that even you are finally realising what a complete and utter ****ing **** Norman Tebbit was :)

[Peter]

No, m isn’t like other people. For a start he’s much brighter and thoughtful (not in the sense of being kind, natch) than other people. The fact that he cares about things like intellectual consistency irritates those who do, of course, but I think it’s a good thing. I don’t think he’s ever got a minute imagined other people are like him. He is very aware he is different.

Which is good. Who wants to be like ‘other people’, ffs?

There are plenty of intellectual pursuits in life but very few people consider football to be one of them. Surely his logic is flawed as well- surely he doesn't hate all of those england players and, if so, why?

I mean, I hate some Arsenal players. Should I want Arsenal to lose??

[Burney]

I think there are millions of people whose loyalties to the england team are negotiable. This is why we keep hearing about the team 'reconnecting' with the fans. You have chosen to remove yourself from this because there are Spurs players in the team. I think your reason is a bit ****tish but I understand where you are coming from.

What I dont understand is why you are here issuing warnings to those who have gone the other way and embraced the side. Within the context of an AWIMB that you tend to dominate, THEY are the non-conformists. Bravo tot hem- and to me for being one of them.

I dont think an englishman supporting england at a world cup is a particularly good example of rank, unthinking conformity. Ash describes the benefits of being part of something bigger and it is tempting to get caught up in it rather than to sneer on the sidelines. I have tried both and dont feel terribly comfortable with either.

It can also be due to something more than your place of birth. I have a natural affinity to an english style of football as I think most of us do. I quite like seeing lads from Rotherham crashing into silky Colombians. Its fun!

I will give you the Norman Tebbit bit. Glad to see that even you are finally realising what a complete and utter ****ing **** Norman Tebbit was :)

The ‘warning’ was by way of a joke, p. Exaggeration for comic effect, sort of thing. I do it rather a lot - I’d have thought you might have noticed by now. :shrug:

And I’m afraid that when I hear people go on about a desire to ‘be part of something bigger’ I tend to think it’s just a touchy-feels way of saying that they like to go along with the crowd. Fair enough and good luck to them, but I don’t and never have. I’m not one of life’s joiners, p. By which I don’t mean I’m bad at carpentry - although I am that, too.

[Burney]

There are plenty of intellectual pursuits in life but very few people consider football to be one of them. Surely his logic is flawed as well- surely he doesn't hate all of those england players and, if so, why?

I mean, I hate some Arsenal players. Should I want Arsenal to lose??

I can’t speak for m, but I hate every single player who plays for a rival English team. I mean obviously I hate some of them more than others, but I hate them all on some level.

[Peter]

I can’t speak for m, but I hate every single player who plays for a rival English team. I mean obviously I hate some of them more than others, but I hate them all on some level.

I dont particularly like any of them but I did find something to admire here and there. Ashley Young desperately trying to struggle through extra time so he could take a penalty; Raheem Sterling constantly looking to run beyond the back four constantly despite being horribly low on confidence; even Harry Kane's ice cold stare as he waited nearly five minutes to take that penalty against Columbia.

Of course I dislike them and their clubs but I am able to see beyond that for a few weeks every couple of years. It helps that I dont absolutely despise any of them the way I did with John Terry.

Either way, intellectual consistency is pretty dangerous. You hate Harry Kane I presume? If he signs for Arsenal next week, what do you do? Rationalise it on account of the move? Continue to hate him?

The basic intellectual outline here is that you hate them because they play for Spurs. Now they are playing for a different team. You may choose to continue to hate them but it does not flow logically from the premise. Its a choice, and good luck to you.

[Peter]

The ‘warning’ was by way of a joke, p. Exaggeration for comic effect, sort of thing. I do it rather a lot - I’d have thought you might have noticed by now. :shrug:

And I’m afraid that when I hear people go on about a desire to ‘be part of something bigger’ I tend to think it’s just a touchy-feels way of saying that they like to go along with the crowd. Fair enough and good luck to them, but I don’t and never have. I’m not one of life’s joiners, p. By which I don’t mean I’m bad at carpentry - although I am that, too.

The perennial voice of dissent. You are so important to us all, b. You remind of that we must question everything, that we must take nothing for granted, that might is not always right.

Still, you must be a ****ing drag at parties :)

[Burney]

The perennial voice of dissent. You are so important to us all, b. You remind of that we must question everything, that we must take nothing for granted, that might is not always right.

Still, you must be a ****ing drag at parties :)

I avoid parties like the plague, p. Awful things full of dreadful people.

[Peter]

I avoid parties like the plague, p. Awful things full of dreadful people.

Oh good god, so do I. The veryword brings me out in a rash. I would only go to a party to get out of going to a wedding.

[Burney]

I dont particularly like any of them but I did find something to admire here and there. Ashley Young desperately trying to struggle through extra time so he could take a penalty; Raheem Sterling constantly looking to run beyond the back four constantly despite being horribly low on confidence; even Harry Kane's ice cold stare as he waited nearly five minutes to take that penalty against Columbia.

Of course I dislike them and their clubs but I am able to see beyond that for a few weeks every couple of years. It helps that I dont absolutely despise any of them the way I did with John Terry.

Either way, intellectual consistency is pretty dangerous. You hate Harry Kane I presume? If he signs for Arsenal next week, what do you do? Rationalise it on account of the move? Continue to hate him?

The basic intellectual outline here is that you hate them because they play for Spurs. Now they are playing for a different team. You may choose to continue to hate them but it does not flow logically from the premise. Its a choice, and good luck to you.

Oh, if they leave Spurs and join another club, I hate them less, certainly. I hate Kyle Walker about 15% less now that he plays for City, for instance.
And the thing is that they are still Spurs players when they’ve got an England shirt on. Spurs pay their wages and it is to Spurs that they return when the World Cup’s over. Prancing around in an England shirt for a few weeks does not changes their Spursness for me.

[Peter]

Oh, if they leave Spurs and join another club, I hate them less, certainly. I hate Kyle Walker about 15% less now that he plays for City, for instance.
And the thing is that they are still Spurs players when they’ve got an England shirt on. Spurs pay their wages and it is to Spurs that they return when the World Cup’s over. Prancing around in an England shirt for a few weeks does not changes their Spursness for me.

What if the opposition had more Spurs players in it than the England team?

[Burney]

Oh good god, so do I. The veryword brings me out in a rash. I would only go to a party to get out of going to a wedding.

My wife occasionally requires me to attend social events and I’m afraid it now causes me to behave quite badly. I will sulk for days beforehand, building to a crescendo of petulant resentment that almost always culminates in a row. And then we’ll get there and I’ll be sweetness and light, of course, as the muscle memory of sociability kicks in.

I’m not proud of it, but I do just hate it so much these days. :-(

[Burney]

What if the opposition had more Spurs players in it than the England team?

Fair question, but I find I can’t hate a foreign spurs player quite as much as I hate an English one, so I’d still want England to lose.

[IUFG]

My wife occasionally requires me to attend social events and I’m afraid it now causes me to behave quite badly. I will sulk for days beforehand, building to a crescendo of petulant resentment that almost always culminates in a row. And then we’ll get there and I’ll be sweetness and light, of course, as the muscle memory of sociability kicks in.

I’m not proud of it, but I do just hate it so much these days. :-(

I find it is the restrictions of decorum that stops you getting blind drunk (as you would with your mates) despite alcohol being freely available that píss on my party chips.

Fúck it. I'd rather stay at home.

[IUFG]

Fair question, but I find I can’t hate a foreign spurs player quite as much as I hate an English one, so I’d still want England to lose.

I put it to Peter, did he cheer on...









































Teddy Sheringham in an England shirt?

[Luis Anaconda]

I put it to Peter, did he cheer on...









































Teddy Sheringham in an England shirt?

I did - England 4 the Netherlands 1. Last England game I went to - he was brilliant as was the whole team. Don't need to watch them again. I hate Shearer far more than I hate Sheringham anyway. At least the latter realised he was a ****

[Peter]

Fair question, but I find I can’t hate a foreign spurs player quite as much as I hate an English one, so I’d still want England to lose.

Ah, so you are also racist :)

[Peter]

I did - England 4 the Netherlands 1. Last England game I went to - he was brilliant as was the whole team. Don't need to watch them again. I hate Shearer far more than I hate Sheringham anyway. At least the latter realised he was a ****

Me too. I hated him, no question, but he was a very good player.

I could take or leave Shearer. He never really bothered me.

[Burney]

Ah, so you are also racist :)

No, I think it’s that I tend to think foreigners just join a London club without really knowing the background, whereas an English player who has grown up with football in this country and STILL joins Tottenham has crossed a moral line.

[IUFG]

Me too. I hated him, no question, but he was a very good player.

you pair of dirty, dirty bástards.

You see, I could take or leave someone like Darren Anderton in an England shirt. When he was actually wearing a football shirt, of course. Or even someone like the greasy-haired Ian Walker.

But not Teddy.

[Peter]

No, I think it’s that I tend to think foreigners just join a London club without really knowing the background, whereas an English player who has grown up with football in this country and STILL joins Tottenham has crossed a moral line.

You just dont like the fact that thick working class kids are considerably richer than you and get more fanny.

That is it, isnt it. Go on, admit it :)

[Luis Anaconda]

Me too. I hated him, no question, but he was a very good player.

I could take or leave Shearer. He never really bothered me.

There was something about Sheringham celebrating wildly having scored the consolation goal for Portsmouth when we had been 5-0 up that really impressed me. He absolutely hated us. I can respect that

[Peter]

you pair of dirty, dirty bástards.

You see, I could take or leave someone like Darren Anderton in an England shirt. When he was actually wearing a football shirt, of course. Or even someone like the greasy-haired Ian Walker.

But not Teddy.

To be fair, Darren Anderson rarely actually played for Spurs.

I dont really care. I hate Spurs. I hate whoever pulls on the shirt and I hate them because they are wearing it.

As soon as they are not, it doesnt bother me. And I liked that England side under Venables and Hoddle. Even with Gary Neville in it.

[Luis Anaconda]

you pair of dirty, dirty bástards.

You see, I could take or leave someone like Darren Anderton in an England shirt. When he was actually wearing a football shirt, of course. Or even someone like the greasy-haired Ian Walker.

But not Teddy.

You still call him Teddy though :repressed:

[IUFG]

You still call him Teddy though :repressed:

quicker to type that, than his surname. Should have used **** instead, tbh

[Peter]

There was something about Sheringham celebrating wildly having scored the consolation goal for Portsmouth when we had been 5-0 up that really impressed me. He absolutely hated us. I can respect that

He certainly enjoyed winding us up. I can respect that as well.

I think you and me are just spectacularly unintellectual, LA. You're drunk so you have an excuse....

[Burney]

There was something about Sheringham celebrating wildly having scored the consolation goal for Portsmouth when we had been 5-0 up that really impressed me. He absolutely hated us. I can respect that

:hehe: I must admit I was quite impressed by that, too. I actually kind of liked him after that.

[Luis Anaconda]

He certainly enjoyed winding us up. I can respect that as well.

I think you and me are just spectacularly unintellectual, LA. You're drunk so you have an excuse....

thank you p - I think I may just go the pub

[Peter]

thank you p - I think I may just go the pub

I'm going in about half an hour. Its lovely in town now England are out of the WorldCup :)

[Ash]

All very nice, a, but you fail to spot the glaring contradiction at the heart of your argument.

You admit that you find this England team preferable to its predecessors containing said ‘thùndercûnts’. In doing so, you concede that your affection or otherwise for England teams is negotiable based on the individuals they contain. Which means that, in essence, you concede that the principle underpinning my distaste for this England team is valid. You are, in other words, no different to me in principle, we just happen to have different criteria. :shrug:

Speaking personally, though, what really bothers me about England football teams is the sheer level of conformity they tap into. I’ve always despised unthinking, reflexive conformity and that is at the heart of what you choose to call my misanthopy. That isn’t to say I’m not outwardly conformist in many respects, but I can say with my hand on my heart that where I conform, it is as a consequence of thought and self-examination. So for instance, I am patriotic because there are many things about this country which are admirable and worth defending. However, those things do not include a mediocre football team teeming with Spurs shítcùnts. And, if I may say so, I find the notion of assessing patriotism based on support for a sports team patently ludicrous. And it’s no less ludicrous when you propose it than when Norman Tebbit does.

For natural-born conformists who have never examined an idea in their lives, of course, England supporting in World Cups is second nature. They are quite able to reconcile hating Spurs 204 weeks out of 208 and then cheering on ‘Harry’ and ‘Alli’ the other four because they’ve never actually bothered thinking about it. Confront them with the parent absurdity of their position and they become enraged and start indulging in convoluted post-rationalisations for their own intellectual inconsistency and reflexive conformity. They will attack you because you have not done the same and use as justification for their attacks that millions of people agree with them and not with you. Because, to the conformist, if everyone’s doing it, it must be right.

I’m afraid I’m just not built that way. :shrug:

Actually I did still support those teams full of those over-hyped thundercùnts. At least a bit, but there's a difference between having reservations, which might lead to quietly being indifferent about their results and success, and loudly calling for their defeat and trollishly revelling in it when it happens, and issuing proclaimations against those who have supported them (albeit in your case, I understand, in some jest). Monty's claims of intellectual consistency are at best misguided and at worst non-sensical but others have worked through that one.

I certainly respect your sense of non-conformity, as something of a non-comformist myself when it comes to certain matters of national pride (where we will often disagree), but I do generally support English and somtimes British sport as a default position - as my local team in international competition, even though I have much admired football teams from France, Germany and elsewhere in the last couple of decades. I have pride in my support for Arsenal because of family roots in both Woolwich and Islington, and without local support where would many teams be? I'm not saying that supporting England at football should be compulsory or expected, just that there's no need to go too far the other way and cùnt people off who do, and rub their faces in England's inevitable defeat when it happens.

Slight aside: I remember the Septic Arsenal blogger 7amkickoff (who sometimes writes some good stuff tbf) doing a piece about how someone he knew over there was supporting Leicester in their season of glory, and how he could say nothing to suggest that supporting Arsenal was a good idea, because Leicester were, at that moment, better than us. 7amkickoff is what you might call a leftist internationalist who seemingly despises the 'parochial/chauvinist' notions of both international competition and support for a local club team. What he didn't seem to grasp was that if everyone only supported the best teams, then why would any of the other teams even exist? I wanted him to understand that some of us support Arsenal because of geographical and family connections to the club, and even if/when we are shít, the club will get new fans because of these historical and geographical connections.

I wasn't getting all Norman Tebbit btw, not least because you strongly identify as English and support England at cricket :-)

And please don't claim to have 'won' a debate before it has finished. There's a good chap. :thumbup:

[7sisters]

Actually I did still support those teams full of those over-hyped thundercùnts. At least a bit, but there's a difference between having reservations, which might lead to quietly being indifferent about their results and success, and loudly calling for their defeat and trollishly revelling in it when it happens, and issuing proclaimations against those who have supported them (albeit in your case, I understand, in some jest). Monty's claims of intellectual consistency are at best misguided and at worst non-sensical but others have worked through that one.

I certainly respect your sense of non-conformity, as something of a non-comformist myself when it comes to certain matters of national pride (where we will often disagree), but I do generally support English and somtimes British sport as a default position - as my local team in international competition, even though I have much admired football teams from France, Germany and elsewhere in the last couple of decades. I have pride in my support for Arsenal because of family roots in both Woolwich and Islington, and without local support where would many teams be? I'm not saying that supporting England at football should be compulsory or expected, just that there's no need to go too far the other way and cùnt people off who do, and rub their faces in England's inevitable defeat when it happens.

Slight aside: I remember the Septic Arsenal blogger 7amkickoff (who sometimes writes some good stuff tbf) doing a piece about how someone he knew over there was supporting Leicester in their season of glory, and how he could say nothing to suggest that supporting Arsenal was a good idea, because Leicester were, at that moment, better than us. 7amkickoff is what you might call a leftist internationalist who seemingly despises the 'parochial/chauvinist' notions of both international competition and support for a local club team. What he didn't seem to grasp was that if everyone only supported the best teams, then why would any of the other teams even exist? I wanted him to understand that some of us support Arsenal because of geographical and family connections to the club, and even if/when we are shít, the club will get new fans because of these historical and geographical connections.

I wasn't getting all Norman Tebbit btw, not least because you strongly identify as English and support England at cricket :-)

And please don't claim to have 'won' a debate before it has finished. There's a good chap. :thumbup:

Speaking of these connections. Did you notice Danny Bakers recent tweet on the subject ?

https://twitter.com/prodnose/status/1017180979411243009

[Ash]

Speaking of these connections. Did you notice Danny Bakers recent tweet on the subject ?

https://twitter.com/prodnose/status/1017180979411243009

:hehe: An interesting contribution to the debate but one doesn't have to be quite so fundamentalist about it. I'm not schlepping down to Charlton every other week when I can just stroll down the Holloway Road.

But then again, why else would anyone support Millwall?

[Burney]

Actually I did still support those teams full of those over-hyped thundercùnts. At least a bit, but there's a difference between having reservations, which might lead to quietly being indifferent about their results and success, and loudly calling for their defeat and trollishly revelling in it when it happens, and issuing proclaimations against those who have supported them (albeit in your case, I understand, in some jest). Monty's claims of intellectual consistency are at best misguided and at worst non-sensical but others have worked through that one.

I certainly respect your sense of non-conformity, as something of a non-comformist myself when it comes to certain matters of national pride (where we will often disagree), but I do generally support English and somtimes British sport as a default position - as my local team in international competition, even though I have much admired football teams from France, Germany and elsewhere in the last couple of decades. I have pride in my support for Arsenal because of family roots in both Woolwich and Islington, and without local support where would many teams be? I'm not saying that supporting England at football should be compulsory or expected, just that there's no need to go too far the other way and cùnt people off who do, and rub their faces in England's inevitable defeat when it happens.

Slight aside: I remember the Septic Arsenal blogger 7amkickoff (who sometimes writes some good stuff tbf) doing a piece about how someone he knew over there was supporting Leicester in their season of glory, and how he could say nothing to suggest that supporting Arsenal was a good idea, because Leicester were, at that moment, better than us. 7amkickoff is what you might call a leftist internationalist who seemingly despises the 'parochial/chauvinist' notions of both international competition and support for a local club team. What he didn't seem to grasp was that if everyone only supported the best teams, then why would any of the other teams even exist? I wanted him to understand that some of us support Arsenal because of geographical and family connections to the club, and even if/when we are shít, the club will get new fans because of these historical and geographical connections.

I wasn't getting all Norman Tebbit btw, not least because you strongly identify as English and support England at cricket :-)

And please don't claim to have 'won' a debate before it has finished. There's a good chap. :thumbup:

Sorry, but the fact that you admit your support for the England team waxes and wanes completely undermines your dig about patriotism. If support can be contingent on factors other than nationality, then clearly patriotism and the football team have nothing to do with one another.

Besides, let’s not be disingenuous. You were clearly suggesting at the end of your post that patriotism and support for England went hand in hand and that it was legitimate to question the patriotism of those of us who wanted England to lose. That is straight-up Tebbitism.

My horror at the notion of a Spurs-dominated team winning the World Cup was genuine. I thus felt genuine relief and delight when Croatia’s second goal went in and I expressed it. Why should I not? Because some people wanted the other team to win? Bòllocks. That’s not how football works, I’m afraid. Cùnting off and gleeful trolling are very much part of the package.

[Ash]

I think the quip about patriotism might be being taken a little too seriously.

Anyway, Tim Stillman shares his thoughts on the Tottinghamisation of England:

https://arseblog.com/2018/07/ticket-to-ride/

[Monty92]

I think the quip about patriotism might be being taken a little too seriously.

Anyway, Tim Stillman shares his thoughts on the Tottinghamisation of England:

https://arseblog.com/2018/07/ticket-to-ride/

Yeah Ash, stop trying to dictate people’s gut instincts to them and tell them to turn the tap off on how they feel, you fascist c*nt.

[Ash]

Yeah Ash, stop trying to dictate people’s gut instincts to them and tell them to turn the tap off on how they feel, you fascist c*nt.

:hehe: Turn that tap OFF young man!

Anyway, I never said them fings.

[redgunamo]

For me, Clive, it's simply about intellectual integrity and consistency.

I'd compare it to people like Jorge who quite clearly want Brexit to end badly because it will validate their own political ideology. That's obviously pretty contemptible, but it's at least loyal to his driving motivation (to be proven right). The real crime is the lack of intellectual integrity he shows by denying that this is his true, guiding motive.

Now, you could say I am similarly contemptible for wanting the country of my birth to lose a football game because I don't like some of the players. But I'm at least being consistent to my true, guiding motive (to see players I hate lose). And the only negative consequence is that England lose a football game.

I'd have thought that would be forgivable, if not understandable to those less bothered by such trifling matters as intellectual consistency and integrity :shrug:

Point of Information: Jorge's sort (You? Certainly B and Sir C and so on. Indeed, lefties generally) are not motivated by a will to validate their political ideology; stands to reason as they don't really have one.

No, they don't care about being, or even being proven, right. Their principle, perhaps only motive is simply perpetual disagreement with those they don't like. Being right doesn't matter to them so much as their present adversary being "wrong".

[redgunamo]

Part of the 'charm', if one might use that word, of international football is precisely that it does, or should, allow the tribal rivalries to dissolve for a short while and for fans of the game to be united behind a team which is local to all of them.

Perhaps deep down we tire of the compulsory hatred for people who follow a team with a different colour shirt from another part of town. I met a bloke at the cricket last week - a fellow Middlesex fan watching them play the Surrey rivals - who was Spurs, and as he said: "It's ok - it's the summer".

The other thing is that World Cups are a chance for non-football fans to experience, and maybe enjoy, the ups and downs of football.

I admit to having my doubts about the Spurs component of this team, but eventually decided it was actually preferable to the collection of supposedly word-class thundercùnts of previous years who achieved rather less than this group of more modest abillity.

One way of measuring 'passion' is how hard it hurts to lose and long it hurts for. It hurt quite a bit last night, but not much, if any today. So I care a lot less than the two days of hurt I expect when Arsenal go out of something, which I would expect, but others might feel differently.

What is notable is that the people who hate England the most here are perhaps the three with the most proudly and robustly held right wing views, with a strong sideline in misanthropy. Interesting, that, should they ever question anyone's patriotism. :-D

The Spurs-thing is merely a superbly convenient (for Arsenal supporters) McGuffin, imo. A certain sort would still dislike the England football team even if it was full of players from Palace, Piccadilly or Peckham Town. In absentia Kane & Co., it would be "How shít is international football", or whatever else. Any excuse not to support England.