SSN: 'Marouane Fellaini in advanced talks with another premier league club'

[Just Trent]

Surely not? Don't do it Sven :-(

[Peter]

Surely not? Don't do it Sven :-(

So we are literally just 'another premier league club'....

Burney and Sir C were right :(

[Sir C]

So we are literally just 'another premier league club'....

Burney and Sir C were right :(

:nod: All that was special about us was destroyed by drooling mongs such as herbert chapman, demanding the removal of Our Manager. Their tiny lives are so meaningless, their relationships so desperately unfulfilling and their souls so empty of decency that they could almost be Irish.

[Tony C]

hopefully just back up with Santi and Wilshere gone.

OoonEye is building his Europa League team first imo

[PSRB]

hopefully just back up with Santi and Wilshere gone.

OoonEye is building his Europa League team first imo

Different option. I'm not against it, especially as he's on a free.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Surely not? Don't do it Sven :-(

Not happening.

[Burney]

Not happening.

Let's face it, we're going to be linked with every broken down old has-been and never was for the next few months as agents and clubs try to offload their dross in the hope that this Turk who manages us now is stupid enough to buy them.

I fully expect us to be linked with Stewart Downing and Gareth Barry in due course.

[Peter]

:nod: All that was special about us was destroyed by drooling mongs such as herbert chapman, demanding the removal of Our Manager. Their tiny lives are so meaningless, their relationships so desperately unfulfilling and their souls so empty of decency that they could almost be Irish.

I think that happened when the yank bought us.

[Burney]

I think that happened when the yank bought us.

I seem to remember being lambasted when I suggested that being bought by some ghastly yank had destroyed the Arsenal. I only half-believed it myself, of course, but it turns out I was right.

wd me. :-(

[Luis Anaconda]

I seem to remember being lambasted when I suggested that being bought by some ghastly yank had destroyed the Arsenal. I only half-believed it myself, of course, but it turns out I was right.

wd me. :-(
Thanks RCEG

[Burney]

Thanks RCEG

Knew what he was about did old RCEG. He was a veritable Cassandra.

[Peter]

I seem to remember being lambasted when I suggested that being bought by some ghastly yank had destroyed the Arsenal. I only half-believed it myself, of course, but it turns out I was right.

wd me. :-(

Arsenal means run by a Hill-wood, owned by friendly and wealthy jewish london types who actually give a **** about the club and are not just looking for a fast buck.

So yes, that Arsenal died. Then. Again, everything dies. Decency changes its meaning with each generation and 'special' now means differently abled.

We are not decent or special anymore but being either doesnt count for a lot these days.

I blame punk rock.

[Burney]

Arsenal means run by a Hill-wood, owned by friendly and wealthy jewish london types who actually give a **** about the club and are not just looking for a fast buck.

So yes, that Arsenal died. Then. Again, everything dies. Decency changes its meaning with each generation and 'special' now means differently abled.

We are not decent or special anymore but being either doesnt count for a lot these days.

I blame punk rock.

To be honest, p, it's all the fault of lefties, isn't it?

We'll have gender-neutral toilets next. :-(

[Peter]

To be honest, p, it's all the fault of lefties, isn't it?

We'll have gender-neutral toilets next. :-(

Thatcher is to blame for a lot of this. We both know it, you just dont want to say it.

[IUFG]

Thatcher is to blame for a lot of this. We both know it, you just dont want to say it.

didn't we do this one last week?

[Peter]

didn't we do this one last week?

And we shall do it every week until the world listens.

Evil old bitch!

[IUFG]

And we shall do it every week until the world listens.

Evil old bitch!

She's dead, p.

[Burney]

She's dead, p.

Not in our hearts, iufg. She's wiv der angles.

[Peter]

Not in our hearts, iufg. She's wiv der angles.

Her legacy remains and must be addressed.

Again and again and again until history reaches an accurate record of her. (Ie one that I agree with).

[IUFG]

Not in our hearts, iufg. She's wiv der angles.

Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act killed her and sent her to hell, for me b.

I know the very beige John Major was in power when it came into force but it had her dabs all over it.

(b)“music” includes sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats.

Fúck 'em and their law.

[Burney]

Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act killed her and sent her to hell, for me b.

I know the very beige John Major was in power when it came into force but it had her dabs all over it.

(b)“music” includes sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats.

Fúck 'em and their law.

Oh, come on! It was the legislative equivalent of your nan saying: 'It's all bang, bang, bang and you can't hear the words'. Hardly damnation-worthy.

Anyway, raves were much more fun when they were illegal - as was homosexuality, I'm told.

[Luis Anaconda]

Oh, come on! It was the legislative equivalent of your nan saying: 'It's all bang, bang, bang and you can't hear the words'. Hardly damnation-worthy.

Anyway, raves were much more fun when they were illegal - as was homosexuality, I'm told.

Hence the term raving homo, presumably

[IUFG]

Oh, come on! It was the legislative equivalent of your nan saying: 'It's all bang, bang, bang and you can't hear the words'. Hardly damnation-worthy.

Anyway, raves were much more fun when they were illegal - as was homosexuality, I'm told.

I believe sections 61 and 62 were all about trespass.

All brought in to absolutely to stop to the illegal raves = damnation imo.

I have no interest in the other point you raised.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act killed her and sent her to hell, for me b.

I know the very beige John Major was in power when it came into force but it had her dabs all over it.

(b)“music” includes sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats.

Fúck 'em and their law.

Did mean we got in our trucks, took our sound systems to Europe and created a pan-European counter-culture of free, illegal, tekno festivals called Teknivals, though.

The CJA meant we swapped Blighty for the whole of the continent. Still hate the dead bitch, mind, and hated the bill at the time but with hindsight the CJA was the best thing that happened to me. In Paris atm staying at one of the Nomads - first free French sound system, inspired by Spiral Tribe when they arrived in '92.

[Sir C]

Did mean we got in our trucks, took our sound systems to Europe and created a pan-European counter-culture of free, illegal, tekno festivals called Teknivals, though.

The CJA meant we swapped Blighty for the whole of the continent. Still hate the dead bitch, mind, and hated the bill at the time but with hindsight the CJA was the best thing that happened to me. In Paris atm staying at one of the Nomads - first free French sound system, inspired by Spiral Tribe when they arrived in '92.

'still hate the dead bitch'. You are an educated chap, g. Do you not look artound you and wonder at the universality of this type of language amongst the Left? Do you even question whyy your contempories are filled with such bile? Why those of a different political opinion to you must be labelled evil or somehow morally inferior?

It does your generation no credit, I'm afraid.

Better to save your spleen for the truly evil: for Stalin, Mao, Castro, for Pol Pot or any other dictators who have merrily slaughtered and tortured in the name of Marxism.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

'still hate the dead bitch'. You are an educated chap, g. Do you not look artound you and wonder at the universality of this type of language amongst the Left? Do you even question whyy your contempories are filled with such bile? Why those of a different political opinion to you must be labelled evil or somehow morally inferior?

It does your generation no credit, I'm afraid.

Better to save your spleen for the truly evil: for Stalin, Mao, Castro, for Pol Pot or any other dictators who have merrily slaughtered and tortured in the name of Marxism.

C, she criminalised our life style and drove us into the sea.

I accept you'd describe our squatting land/empty warehouses/derelict council houses as crime.

I accept that you may not agree that we played a small part in keeping this country the globe's cultural capital.

But we were no threat. There were only 100 vehicles/families in the Peace Convoy she destroyed at the Battle of the Beanfield in 1985.

The Earl of Cardigan was called a class traitor for defending us - we were squatting his land. The ITN journo was in tears saying he'd seen police - all with their numbers taken off - beating up women and children.

Rosie was in a pic in the Times, carrying her new born baby Kaya, running as a truncheon wielding policeman tries to batter their brains out. Both are old mates of mine.

100 fücking hippies. We weren't ISIS or the IRA - our biggest crime would be possession of an eighth and perhaps some shrooms in autumn.

And she called us the enemy within, and used the police as an unidentifiable paramilitary gestapo to destroy us.

Great. She cut your taxes and you'll have a nicer pension pot than you would have done otherwise.

(And FTR, I hold no candle for '70s unions.)

But she called a 100 hippy families the enemy and tried to exterminate us.

I don't expect you to excuse my intemperate language but do you least understand now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHizyCtakw

[Burney]

C, she criminalised our life style and drove us into the sea.

I accept you'd describe our squatting land/empty warehouses/derelict council houses as crime.

I accept that you may not agree that we played a small part in keeping this country the globe's cultural capital.

But we were no threat. There were only 100 vehicles/families in the Peace Convoy she destroyed at the Battle of the Beanfield in 1985.

The Earl of Cardigan was called a class traitor for defending us - we were squatting his land. The ITN journo was in tears saying he'd seen police - all with their numbers taken off - beating up women and children.

Rosie was in a pic in the Times, carrying her new born baby Kaya, running as a truncheon wielding policeman tries to batter their brains out. Both are old mates of mine.

100 fücking hippies. We weren't ISIS or the IRA - our biggest crime would be possession of an eighth and perhaps some shrooms in autumn.

And she called us the enemy within, and used the police as an unidentifiable paramilitary gestapo to destroy us.

Great. She cut your taxes and you'll have a nicer pension pot than you would have done otherwise.

(And FTR, I hold no candle for '70s unions.)

But she called a 100 hippy families the enemy and tried to exterminate us.

I don't expect you to excuse my intemperate language but do you least understand now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHizyCtakw

Is this the image to which you refer?

939

Only I'm struggling to spot the brain-hungry copper, tbh.

It's the wanton disregard for the broad beans that bothers me, tbh. I'd be furious if people trampled over my broad beans like that.

[Peter]

Is this the image to which you refer?

939

Only I'm struggling to spot the brain-hungry copper, tbh.

It's the wanton disregard for the broad beans that bothers me, tbh. I'd be furious if people trampled over my broad beans like that.

Orgreave, Hillsborough.......

But its only miners and scousers so it doesn't matter.

[Burney]

Orgreave, Hillsborough.......

But its only miners and scousers so it doesn't matter.

To be honest, if you seek to live outside the law and ignore its strictures, then an example must be made to show that that is not acceptable.

Many of the problems we have in this country are because the police have ceased doing their jobs and making such examples.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Is this the image to which you refer?

939

Only I'm struggling to spot the brain-hungry copper, tbh.

It's the wanton disregard for the broad beans that bothers me, tbh. I'd be furious if people trampled over my broad beans like that.

No, it's not. That is Rosie and Kaya but the photo with the truncheon is on the front of a book by an arty type we met in Brockley when Kaya (1 at the time, then about 20) came to visit c.2005.

If you wanna see baton wielding thugs, look at the itn vid I posted c. 2 mins in.

3 mins in, the ITN journo describes them doing it.

Or perhaps I'm making all this up cos I'm a Corbynista who wants to dishonour the memory of St Margaret.

Fück your broad beans joke, B. The land-owner, the Earl of Cardingan, was happy for us to be there and blamed the pigs for all that came to pass. The Torygraph called him a class traitor and said he must be mad cos of the Charge of the Light Brigade meant it was in his genes.

You and I don't agree politically, mate, but I can mostly respect your perspective even if I disagree with it.

So justify this.

Justify your taxes being paid so hundreds of coppers could take off their numbers and destroy the homes of the hippies while beating up women and babies.

All so there were 100 less hippies banging their bongos and smoking their spliffs.

Come on, mate. In all seriousness, do you agree with Maggie doing that? Does it make you proud to be British?

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

To be honest, if you seek to live outside the law and ignore its strictures, then an example must be made to show that that is not acceptable.

Many of the problems we have in this country are because the police have ceased doing their jobs and making such examples.

Cool, B. Ever smoked a spliff? Ever driven at 71 mph on the motorway? Then I'll hide my identity and smash up your house so I can then brain Mrs Berni and all the little Bernis with my truncheon.

Gotta make an example of you crims.

[IUFG]

To be honest, if you seek to live outside the law and ignore its strictures, then an example must be made to show that that is not acceptable.

Many of the problems we have in this country are because the police have ceased doing their jobs and making such examples.

Tbf, the Met were generally a bunch of ****s in the 80s and 90s. Probably still are.

[Burney]

Cool, B. Ever smoked a spliff? Ever driven at 71 mph on the motorway? Then I'll hide my identity and smash up your house so I can then brain Mrs Berni and all the little Bernis with my truncheon.

Gotta make an example of you crims.

This comes down to the basic rule of 'don't take the fvcking p1ss'. Driving at 71 or having a spliff in one's home is fine. However, driving at 101 or smoking a spliff outside a police station isn't.

Equally, publicly flaunting the law on a mass scale (such as by driving 100 ****ty, untaxed, un-MOT'd vehicles onto private land without permission in order to get to a festival at a world heritage site that you know has been declared illegal by a High Court injunction) will get your head broken for you. And rightly so.

[IUFG]

This comes down to the basic rule of 'don't take the fvcking p1ss'. Driving at 71 or having a spliff in one's home is fine. However, driving at 101 or smoking a spliff outside a police station isn't.

Equally, publicly flaunting the law on a mass scale (such as by driving 100 ****ty, untaxed, un-MOT'd vehicles onto private land without permission in order to get to a festival at a world heritage site that you know has been declared illegal by a High Court injunction) will get your head broken for you. And rightly so.

pffft. We only wanted to listen to amplified repetitive beats and dance, b

Oh, and do stuff that wanted you to have a good time and be nice to others.

[Burney]

pffft. We only wanted to listen to amplified repetitive beats and dance, b

Oh, and do stuff that wanted you to have a good time and be nice to others.

Did this by any chance involve the large-scale public consumption of Class A drugs? It did, didn't it?

There's your problem, y'see? Taking the p1ss.

[Peter]

To be honest, if you seek to live outside the law and ignore its strictures, then an example must be made to show that that is not acceptable.

Many of the problems we have in this country are because the police have ceased doing their jobs and making such examples.

Going to a football match or striking is living outside the law?

THe problems we had in the 80s were due to the police not being subject to the law themselves.

[Sir C]

Going to a football match or striking is living outside the law?

THe problems we had in the 80s were due to the police not being subject to the law themselves.

Is that the royal 'we'? I had no problems with the police in the 80s because I didn't behave like an animal. :shrug:

[IUFG]

... because I didn't behave like an animal. :shrug:

Neither did I, sc.

I did 'enjoy' a Friday night detained at Holborn in the early 90s though.

I was arrested during a night out on suspicion of criminal damage. Locked me up, didn't interview me at all and then let me go without charge at 12.45pm on the Saturday lunchtime.

No explanation, no apology nor any breakfast. ****s.

[Sir C]

Neither did I, sc.

I did 'enjoy' a Friday night detained at Holborn in the early 90s though.

I was arrested during a night out on suspicion of criminal damage. Locked me up, didn't interview me at all and then let me go without charge at 12.45pm on the Saturday lunchtime.

No explanation, no apology nor any breakfast. ****s.

It's not exactly the Gestapo, is it? I take it they didn't pull your toenails out with pliers?

[Peter]

Is that the royal 'we'? I had no problems with the police in the 80s because I didn't behave like an animal. :shrug:

Its the collective we of people who dont think it is ok for the police to attack and assault innocent people and then commit perjury and falsification of evidence to try and convict them. Or for them to make a fatal mistake that led directly to the death of 96 people and then lie about it for twenty five years including smearing the innocent and breathalysing children.

I wouldn't call it royal but I would like to think there are a few of us.

[Tony C]

Neither did I, sc.

I did 'enjoy' a Friday night detained at Holborn in the early 90s though.

I was arrested during a night out on suspicion of criminal damage. Locked me up, didn't interview me at all and then let me go without charge at 12.45pm on the Saturday lunchtime.

No explanation, no apology nor any breakfast. ****s.

Trust me...you wouldn’t have wanted the microwave Poundland breakfast ready meal that they spit in.

[Peter]

It's not exactly the Gestapo, is it? I take it they didn't pull your toenails out with pliers?

Wow, we do set the bar pretty low don't we.

At least our police don't routinely shoot black people for more or less no reason.

Not routinely....

[Peter]

Did this by any chance involve the large-scale public consumption of Class A drugs? It did, didn't it?

There's your problem, y'see? Taking the p1ss.

You massive hypocrite :hehe:

[IUFG]

It's not exactly the Gestapo, is it? I take it they didn't pull your toenails out with pliers?

I was rather roughly manhandled including a short stint of strangling and then pushed into the pack of a van with, shall we say, disproportionate force considering I wasn't resisting. Not bad considering I hadn't actually done anything to break the law.

It was the lack of a full English that really stepped over the mark tbh

[Sir C]

Its the collective we of people who dont think it is ok for the police to attack and assault innocent people and then commit perjury and falsification of evidence to try and convict them. Or for them to make a fatal mistake that led directly to the death of 96 people and then lie about it for twenty five years including smearing the innocent and breathalysing children.

I wouldn't call it royal but I would like to think there are a few of us.

Meh. You see evrything through the prism of your self-congratulatory, sanctimonious moral certainties, made concrete by cultural Marxism. :shrug:

[Burney]

Its the collective we of people who dont think it is ok for the police to attack and assault innocent people and then commit perjury and falsification of evidence to try and convict them. Or for them to make a fatal mistake that led directly to the death of 96 people and then lie about it for twenty five years including smearing the innocent and breathalysing children.

I wouldn't call it royal but I would like to think there are a few of us.

Yeah. I'm increasingly convinced that that is absolutely OK because - and this is crucial - it has proved vastly preferable to the alternative of a police force more terrified of being called racist or corrupt than actually protecting the vast majority of law-abiding people and maintaining public safety.

People should be scared of the police, p. They should be terrified enough to know that, if they push their luck, they may well end up at the bottom of a stairwell with several of their limbs (and possibly their head) pointing the wrong way. Under the system people like you have created, the police are now a joke and the public feel unsafe - with considerable justification in many cases.

[Burney]

You massive hypocrite :hehe:

Hypocrisy is simply the name that sanctimony gives to realism, p. :shrug:

[Peter]

Hypocrisy is simply the name that sanctimony gives to realism, p. :shrug:

Intellectual flexibility is the current term, I believe.

[Peter]

Yeah. I'm increasingly convinced that that is absolutely OK because - and this is crucial - it has proved vastly preferable to the alternative of a police force more terrified of being called racist or corrupt than actually protecting the vast majority of law-abiding people and maintaining public safety.

People should be scared of the police, p. They should be terrified enough to know that, if they push their luck, they may well end up at the bottom of a stairwell with several of their limbs (and possibly their head) pointing the wrong way. Under the system people like you have created, the police are now a joke and the public feel unsafe - with considerable justification in many cases.

Guilty people should be scared of the police.

THere is a difference between getting a cuff round the back of the head and being sent on your way and killing 96 people at a football match and lying about it for 25 years. One is old school, the other is a government-level cover up and perversion of the course of justice that ademocratic society should not tolerate, even for a moment.

If only we lived in a democratic society.

[Peter]

Meh. You see evrything through the prism of your self-congratulatory, sanctimonious moral certainties, made concrete by cultural Marxism. :shrug:

I am not sure that the correct and proper use of the justice system can necessarily be referred to as cultural marxism.....

[Burney]

Guilty people should be scared of the police.

THere is a difference between getting a cuff round the back of the head and being sent on your way and killing 96 people at a football match and lying about it for 25 years. One is old school, the other is a government-level cover up and perversion of the course of justice that ademocratic society should not tolerate, even for a moment.

If only we lived in a democratic society.

They are part and parcel of the same thing. Coppers close ranks and protect themselves and traditionally society has allowed them to do so because it used to be nuanced enough to appreciate that theirs is a job that necessarily involves some flexibility with regard to their tacit permission to act outside the law.

Now we have a squeaky clean police force that is irreproachable in its attitudes to multiculturalism, sexuality, gender, etc, etc, but which happens to be fvcking useless at doing its job.

[Peter]

They are part and parcel of the same thing. Coppers close ranks and protect themselves and traditionally society has allowed them to do so because it used to be nuanced enough to appreciate that theirs is a job that necessarily involves some flexibility with regard to their tacit permission to act outside the law.

Now we have a squeaky clean police force that is irreproachable in its attitudes to multiculturalism, sexuality, gender, etc, etc, but which happens to be fvcking useless at doing its job.

Tacit permission to act outside the law? Again, putting a shotgun in the boot of a known criminal's car is not the same as a government-level 25 year conspiracy around 96 deaths. If they are part and parcel of the same thing then neither is acceptable.

I have been unfortunate enough to have several recent experiences with our local police force and trust me, they do their job well enough. Admittedly that job involves responding every time my neighbours claim they have been racially abused and losing interest when it is proven to them that the allegation is entirely false and could not possibly have happened. :(

[Ash]

I am not sure that the correct and proper use of the justice system can necessarily be referred to as cultural marxism.....

What do you think of this term 'cultural marxism', Peter? To me the thing it refers to is nothing to do with marxism. It's surely what happened when the left abandoned marxism and the working class. Cultural leftism might be a better phrase imo.

[Burney]

Tacit permission to act outside the law? Again, putting a shotgun in the boot of a known criminal's car is not the same as a government-level 25 year conspiracy around 96 deaths. If they are part and parcel of the same thing then neither is acceptable.

I have been unfortunate enough to have several recent experiences with our local police force and trust me, they do their job well enough. Admittedly that job involves responding every time my neighbours claim they have been racially abused and losing interest when it is proven to them that the allegation is entirely false and could not possibly have happened. :(

What tangible benefit arose from the Hillsborough Inquiry, p? I know a bunch of scousers got to feel vindicated and self-righteous (so what's new?) and will now probably get a load of compo from the taxpayer (which is what they were really after all along). Also, a few politicians got to grandstand about it and improve their public profile (I'm looking at you, Burnham). But what actual good was done? None. Nobody came back from the dead. No lives will be saved in future as a consequence - that was achieved by the Taylor Report more than 20 years ago.

All that happened is that somebody was found to blame. So what? What was the point of that? Is anyone better off for knowing that a copper made a tragic, understandable mistake and that he was - as far as possible - protected from the consequences of that mistake for a couple of decades. If the truth be known, I don't really have a problem with that. :shrug:

[Peter]

What do you think of this term 'cultural marxism', Peter? To me the thing it refers to is nothing to do with marxism. It's surely what happened when the left abandoned marxism and the working class. Cultural leftism might be a better phrase imo.

I think it is meaningless twaddle, used by the likes of Sir C to voice his horror at having to pay tax and be nice to foreigners.

In Britain the left arguably abandoned marxism and the working class a century ago (if by the left we mean the Labour Party).

I care little for the identity of the left, or their ideas. In many respects I actively dislike them- certainly many of the ones I have met. My political interest has always focused on the rights of the working class, or what we now refer to as 'ordinary people' or 'hard working families'.......

I dont think the term marxism has ever really belonged in British politics or the british political identity.

[Peter]

What tangible benefit arose from the Hillsborough Inquiry, p? I know a bunch of scousers got to feel vindicated and self-righteous (so what's new?) and will now probably get a load of compo from the taxpayer (which is what they were really after all along). Also, a few politicians got to grandstand about it and improve their public profile (I'm looking at you, Burnham). But what actual good was done? None. Nobody came back from the dead. No lives will be saved in future as a consequence - that was achieved by the Taylor Report more than 20 years ago.

All that happened is that somebody was found to blame. So what? What was the point of that? Is anyone better off for knowing that a copper made a tragic, understandable mistake and that he was - as far as possible - protected from the consequences of that mistake for a couple of decades. If the truth be known, I don't really have a problem with that. :shrug:

We learned our government lied to us all for 25 years, took part in a nationwide conspiracy, perverted the course of justice and sought to lay the blame for the deaths of 96 football fans on their fellow supporters, vilifying an entire city and its people.

The same police force who perverted the course of justice and committed countless instances of perjury 5 years earlier in attempting to convict the miners they had violently assaulted of rioting. Still no enquiry.......

THe tangible benefit being that it proves, once and for all, that Thatcherism carried with it a heavy price- justice, fairness, the reputation of our police force and the lives of 96 football fans.

What a ****ing **** she was...... and now we all know.

[Burney]

I think it is meaningless twaddle, used by the likes of Sir C to voice his horror at having to pay tax and be nice to foreigners.

In Britain the left arguably abandoned marxism and the working class a century ago (if by the left we mean the Labour Party).

I care little for the identity of the left, or their ideas. In many respects I actively dislike them- certainly many of the ones I have met. My political interest has always focused on the rights of the working class, or what we now refer to as 'ordinary people' or 'hard working families'.......

I dont think the term marxism has ever really belonged in British politics or the british political identity.

Whatever name we give it, as a phenomenon it undeniably exists. The post-1968 defeat of Marxists in the direct political sphere caused them to migrate to the spheres of cultural influence (the arts, media, academia, education, etc) from which they could manipulate public thought and discourse. The result is the fvcking mess we have today.

[Burney]

We learned our government lied to us all for 25 years, took part in a nationwide conspiracy, perverted the course of justice and sought to lay the blame for the deaths of 96 football fans on their fellow supporters, vilifying an entire city and its people.

The same police force who perverted the course of justice and committed countless instances of perjury 5 years earlier in attempting to convict the miners they had violently assaulted of rioting. Still no enquiry.......

THe tangible benefit being that it proves, once and for all, that Thatcherism carried with it a heavy price- justice, fairness, the reputation of our police force and the lives of 96 football fans.

What a ****ing **** she was...... and now we all know.

:hehe: I hope you warmed up before going for a stretch that big, p.

Governments lie to us. We don't need inquiries to tell us that.

Everyone hated scousers before Hillsborough (especially their football fans - who are and were scum) and they hate them just as much now - nothing's changed.

Lots of people still feel that Thatcher is our greatest post-war PM. So your idea of a tangible benefit seems a bit intangible to me.

Still, the lawyers did well out of it.

[Peter]

:hehe: I hope you warmed up before going for a stretch that big, p.

Governments lie to us. We don't need inquiries to tell us that.

Everyone hated scousers before Hillsborough (especially their football fans - who are and were scum) and they hate them just as much now - nothing's changed.

Lots of people still feel that Thatcher is our greatest post-war PM. So your idea of a tangible benefit seems a bit intangible to me.

Still, the lawyers did well out of it.

I am not saying everyone will see it. But there it is, out in the open if you fancy having a look.

Your world is a depressing one, b. The police break the law, governments lie, scousers have to die and murderers are revered.

Funny though.....most of the people who suggest these things happen all the time are written off as lunatics when really you just seem to think they are daft to be getting upset about it.

I aspire to something better. Mainly because I am naive and immature.

[Burney]

I am not saying everyone will see it. But there it is, out in the open if you fancy having a look.

Your world is a depressing one, b. The police break the law, governments lie, scousers have to die and murderers are revered.

Funny though.....most of the people who suggest these things happen all the time are written off as lunatics when really you just seem to think they are daft to be getting upset about it.

I aspire to something better. Mainly because I am naive and immature.

When one is young one thinks that everything is made better by telling the truth and getting everything out in the open. As one matures, however, one realises that that is utter b0llocks and that the sort of people who advocate such behaviour are usually doing so out of self-interest or sheer vindictiveness.

[Peter]

When one is young one thinks that everything is made better by telling the truth and getting everything out in the open. As one matures, however, one realises that that is utter b0llocks and that the sort of people who advocate such behaviour are usually doing so out of self-interest or sheer vindictiveness.

THis is a far less dramatic rendition of the 'you cant handle the truth' scene.......

[Burney]

THis is a far less dramatic rendition of the 'you cant handle the truth' scene.......

Yes. Which everyone remembers from that otherwise dreary film because it was well-written and sounded a note of adult realism amongst all the adolescent posturing about uncovering the truth.

[Peter]

Yes. Which everyone remembers from that otherwise dreary film because it was well-written and sounded a note of adult realism amongst all the adolescent posturing about uncovering the truth.

THat film isnt about the truth, b. Its about following orders.

[Burney]

THat film isnt about the truth, b. Its about following orders.

The Nazis really gave following orders a bad name, didn't they? Silly really, since society is a machine that only functions if people follow orders (explicit or implicit). We just don't like to admit it.

[Peter]

The Nazis really gave following orders a bad name, didn't they? Silly really, since society is a machine that only functions if people follow orders (explicit or implicit). We just don't like to admit it.

I think if you join the military you have to accept that. The film is about officers giving orders and then denying they gave them when someone died.

Its basically about hillsborough :)