View Full Version : If we did win the Europa Cup, it would be rather odd in the future to look
Monty92
03-23-2018, 12:40 PM
back at what were by everyone's admission a wholly unsatisfactory final few years under Wenger and see a haul of 4 trophies (the same number won by Spurs over 35 years).
Just sayin'...
Pokster
03-23-2018, 12:46 PM
back at what were by everyone's admission a wholly unsatisfactory final few years under Wenger and see a haul of 4 trophies (the same number won by Spurs over 35 years).
Just sayin'...
Unlike you to spout off about stuff like this yet again
Monty92
03-23-2018, 12:53 PM
Unlike you to spout off about stuff like this yet again
Unlike you to issue a snarky reply.
Conclusion: we are both ****s in our own unique ways :judge:
back at what were by everyone's admission a wholly unsatisfactory final few years under Wenger and see a haul of 4 trophies (the same number won by Spurs over 35 years).
Just sayin'...
Or people might look at league performances and final league positions during those years, the undoubted decline of the side, and factor in the failure to qualify for the CL in successive seasons after two decades of annual qualification.
Others have caught us up and overtaken us, no shame in that of course though maybe we have played our own part in that.
The EL, which would be nice to win of course, cannot be viewed in any way other than the very poor relation of the European Cup, a quick browse through the teams we have beaten to reach this stage, and the actual quality of the games in the tournament more importantly, will reinforce that belief. Fulham and Celtic have reached finals in this tournament over the years ffs.
The 3 FA Cup wins was of course an achievement but even then this domestic cup has lost some of its sheen even when viewed in comparison to wins earlier in his tenure.
The comparison with Spurs is a total irrelevance.
Of course you would still be coming along with these utterly pointless and moronic posts.
Hope that is in some way the reaction you so clearly sought.
:thumbup:
Monty92
03-23-2018, 01:01 PM
Or people might look at league performances and final league positions during those years, the undoubted decline of the side, and factor in the failure to qualify for the CL in successive seasons after two decades of annual qualification.
Others have caught us up and overtaken us, no shame in that of course though maybe we have played our own part in that.
The EL, which would be nice to win of course, cannot be viewed in any way other than the very poor relation of the European Cup, a quick browse through the teams we have beaten to reach this stage, and the actual quality of the games in the tournament more importantly, will reinforce that belief. Fulham and Celtic have reached finals in this tournament over the years ffs.
The 3 FA Cup wins was of course an achievement but even then this domestic cup has lost some of its sheen even when viewed in comparison to wins earlier in his tenure.
The comparison with Spurs is a total irrelevance.
Of course you would still be coming along with these utterly pointless and moronic posts.
Hope that is in some way the reaction you so clearly sought.
:thumbup:
I guess my point was that when our grandchildren ask us why Arsene Wenger left and we sit them on our knee, tenderly stroke the arch of their back under their jumpers and gently explain that he turned into a useless shít**** in the last few years of his tenure, then they might well look at the stats and be somewhat confused that he could have left under such a sour note.
Sir C
03-23-2018, 01:17 PM
Or people might look at league performances and final league positions during those years, the undoubted decline of the side, and factor in the failure to qualify for the CL in successive seasons after two decades of annual qualification.
Others have caught us up and overtaken us, no shame in that of course though maybe we have played our own part in that.
The EL, which would be nice to win of course, cannot be viewed in any way other than the very poor relation of the European Cup, a quick browse through the teams we have beaten to reach this stage, and the actual quality of the games in the tournament more importantly, will reinforce that belief. Fulham and Celtic have reached finals in this tournament over the years ffs.
The 3 FA Cup wins was of course an achievement but even then this domestic cup has lost some of its sheen even when viewed in comparison to wins earlier in his tenure.
The comparison with Spurs is a total irrelevance.
Of course you would still be coming along with these utterly pointless and moronic posts.
Hope that is in some way the reaction you so clearly sought.
:thumbup:
He makes a good point, I think. When I started standing on the North Bank, we looked back in amazement and envy at the glories of Bertie Mee's double team; yet their achievement was a Fairs Cup, an FA cup and a league. Not exactly Man U under Ferguson, but it still seemed wildly successful to us.
Come the day when the spoilt within our fan base have succombed to syphilis or scurvy, perhaps the majority will return to having reasonable, realistic expectations.
Come the day when the spoilt within our fan base have succombed to syphilis or scurvy, perhaps the majority will return to having reasonable, realistic expectations.
I quite agree, and in many, many ways, AW is a victim of his own success.
The younger members of the Arsenal fan base will not remember the attritional years at all.
If only we'd kept Rioch on for another 20 years...that would have learned 'em.
Pokster
03-23-2018, 01:35 PM
I quite agree, and in many, many ways, AW is a victim of his own success.
The younger members of the Arsenal fan base will not remember the attritional years at all.
If only we'd kept Rioch on for another 20 years...that would have learned 'em.
Didn't he finish 5th in his only season in charge? so higher the AW's last one #fingerscrossed
Didn't he finish 5th in his only season in charge? so higher the AW's last one #fingerscrossed
Dennis did that. Not Bruce.
Pokster
03-23-2018, 01:40 PM
Dennis did that. Not Bruce.
:judge: so in other words, yes he did
:judge: so in other words, yes he did
I can't deny it, Arsenal finished 5th in 95-96. AND, only 19 points behind the Champions.
And, he had a ruck with Keegan.
in hindsight, he wasn't that bad.
Luis Anaconda
03-23-2018, 01:47 PM
back at what were by everyone's admission a wholly unsatisfactory final few years under Wenger and see a haul of 4 trophies (the same number won by Spurs over 35 years).
Just sayin'...
Same could be said for the last years of GG - three trophies and on course for a Euro final, but even without the brown paper bag there was huge disgruntlement at the way things were going
Monty92
03-23-2018, 01:51 PM
Same could be said for the last years of GG - three trophies and on course for a Euro final, but even without the brown paper bag there was huge disgruntlement at the way things were going
That's a fair comparison. I guess the moral of the story is, if you don't want your fans to turn against you, don't win the league.
That's a fair comparison. I guess the moral of the story is, if you don't want your fans to turn against you, don't win the league.
we didn't wait for him to win the league apparently...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--XAvnngTStc/V6znb_HHW6I/AAAAAAAAD30/7cL5ZebxCVIsdUp07kYbrkaY6UIFDdJ0gCK4B/s1600/IMG_20160808_0004.jpg
Monty92
03-23-2018, 01:57 PM
we didn't wait for him to win the league apparently...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--XAvnngTStc/V6znb_HHW6I/AAAAAAAAD30/7cL5ZebxCVIsdUp07kYbrkaY6UIFDdJ0gCK4B/s1600/IMG_20160808_0004.jpg
Looks like the club didn't forget the role of "Alan Esparza" in that affair :hehe:
http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php?section=exclusive&id=111
71 Guns - channeling the spirit of Mr Hat
03-23-2018, 01:58 PM
we didn't wait for him to win the league apparently...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--XAvnngTStc/V6znb_HHW6I/AAAAAAAAD30/7cL5ZebxCVIsdUp07kYbrkaY6UIFDdJ0gCK4B/s1600/IMG_20160808_0004.jpg
Well, if we had got Cruyff instead, he definitely wouldn't have lasted as long as AW :smokin:
Looks like the club didn't forget the role of "Alan Esparza" in that affair :hehe:
http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php?section=exclusive&id=111
a top piece of grudge bearing there, Clive
Well, if we had got Cruyff instead, he definitely wouldn't have lasted as long as AW :smokin:
gpwm, 71
He makes a good point, I think. When I started standing on the North Bank, we looked back in amazement and envy at the glories of Bertie Mee's double team; yet their achievement was a Fairs Cup, an FA cup and a league. Not exactly Man U under Ferguson, but it still seemed wildly successful to us.
Come the day when the spoilt within our fan base have succombed to syphilis or scurvy, perhaps the majority will return to having reasonable, realistic expectations.
You and Monty are both entirely correct, he has been a brilliant manager and his record over his tenure will show that. However said success cannot take away from the fact that the last few years have largely been unsatisfactory and I don't mean that as a spoilt brat type comment.
Football has changed almost beyond recognition all the same. As you say when you started you compared then with Bertie Mee's time.
You reference Man U under Ferguson, even that is an almost unknown to young kids now who associate City with success whereas to you and I they were a joke club for many many years. United pre Ferguson, 25+ years without a title.
Liverpool now vs Liverpool of the 70s/80s.
Peter
03-23-2018, 02:21 PM
You and Monty are both entirely correct, he has been a brilliant manager and his record over his tenure will show that. However said success cannot take away from the fact that the last few years have largely been unsatisfactory and I don't mean that as a spoilt brat type comment.
Football has changed almost beyond recognition all the same. As you say when you started you compared then with Bertie Mee's time.
You reference Man U under Ferguson, even that is an almost unknown to young kids now who associate City with success whereas to you and I they were a joke club for many many years. United pre Ferguson, 25+ years without a title.
Liverpool now vs Liverpool of the 70s/80s.
You are right that football has changed. It does tend to highlight that Ferguson's true brilliance (and I hate saying this) was his ability to freshen his perspective, his back room staff and his approaches to keep up. He also managed to keep a hugely successful squad hungry each season and wasnt afraid to dismantle his side, or remove key players, as and when he felt it necessary.
Wenger's 'stubborness' does get in the way here. Arguably we are also seeing the first signs of football leaving Mourinho behind as he struggles to make his usual impact at United.
redgunamo
03-23-2018, 02:26 PM
You and Monty are both entirely correct, he has been a brilliant manager and his record over his tenure will show that. However said success cannot take away from the fact that the last few years have largely been unsatisfactory and I don't mean that as a spoilt brat type comment.
Football has changed almost beyond recognition all the same. As you say when you started you compared then with Bertie Mee's time.
You reference Man U under Ferguson, even that is an almost unknown to young kids now who associate City with success whereas to you and I they were a joke club for many many years. United pre Ferguson, 25+ years without a title.
Liverpool now vs Liverpool of the 70s/80s.
I dreamt about Kevin Keegan the other night :-\
You are right that football has changed. It does tend to highlight that Ferguson's true brilliance (and I hate saying this) was his ability to freshen his perspective, his back room staff and his approaches to keep up. He also managed to keep a hugely successful squad hungry each season and wasnt afraid to dismantle his side, or remove key players, as and when he felt it necessary.
Wenger's 'stubborness' does get in the way here. Arguably we are also seeing the first signs of football leaving Mourinho behind as he struggles to make his usual impact at United.
Well yes all well and good but we should never overlook the fact that they were spending monies on a level that more or less every other club could not compete with and when some did they were also caught up and overtaken.
I dreamt about Kevin Keegan the other night :-\
was he falling off a bike?
that gives me the opportunity to post this again... :-D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEuOPLtcY9A
Peter
03-23-2018, 02:31 PM
Well yes all well and good but we should never overlook the fact that they were spending monies on a level that more or less every other club could not compete with and when some did they were also caught up and overtaken.
Well.... he won the league in his final season. THeir dominance was ended by the influx of gigantic sums of money but I dont think you can argue that they were overtaken until he left. THe extent of that shows the full effect of his departure.
Now they spend a fortune and are not able to catch up.....
was he falling off a bike?
that gives me the opportunity to post this again... :-D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEuOPLtcY9A
Great television.
Brian Jacks on the parallel bars. Blimey.
Thomas
03-29-2018, 04:45 AM
I've read a detailed review of the Champions League match in London at http://www.arsenalnews.org/ and made a conclusion that Wenger will continue to coach the team simply because he guarantees some stability. The Gunners' owners do not want to repeat the Chelsea's history before the arrival of Antonio Conte or an incredible story with Leicester in the 2015/2016 season..
Tony C
03-29-2018, 07:27 AM
My suspicion is that the 2 yr contract was decided upon as follows:
Year 1 - Find a new manager to coach the side and suitable replacements for all the extra tasks Wenger was supposed to be doing by quite clearly f ucked up because of his work load.
Year 2 - in case they don’t get all their chips into play they have the safety net of Wenger....if everything is sorted then thank you, goodbye and an extremely generous payoff.
I’m guessing the age discrimination card is just an attempt to max out his final payout from us.
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