Yesterday's match was very sad.

[Pat Vegas]

:-(
we've got a bunch of shidcunds and no bench whatsoever.

another genius move to let so many players leave too.

But apart from that it's so boring.

And Ozil is not worth the money in this current set up.

[Ash]

:-(
we've got a bunch of shidcunds and no bench whatsoever.

another genius move to let so many players leave too.

But apart from that it's so boring.

And Ozil is not worth the money in this current set up.

Not sure how Walcott, Debuchy & Coquelin would have come on and saved us tbh. Though the little Chilean fella might have scored a goal.

[redgunamo]

Not sure how Walcott, Debuchy & Coquelin would have come on and saved us tbh. Though the little Chilean fella might have scored a goal.

Olivier might've put the wind up 'em.

[Burney]

:-(
we've got a bunch of shidcunds and no bench whatsoever.

another genius move to let so many players leave too.

But apart from that it's so boring.

And Ozil is not worth the money in this current set up.

Yes. It’s hard to see why there’s even a question over whether Wenger stays or goes at this stage. When one finds oneself forced to agree with the array of gibbering spastics on Fan TV, one must either demand one’s family has one committed or accept that they are actually right and that he absolutely must go.

[IUFG]

Yes. It’s hard to see why there’s even a question over whether Wenger stays or goes at this stage. When one finds oneself forced to agree with the array of gibbering spastics on Fan TV, one must either demand one’s family has one committed or accept that they are actually right and that he absolutely must go.

I've found myself agreeing with Claude and DT :cry: For shame, IUFG, for shame.

[Burney]

I've found myself agreeing with Claude and DT :cry: For shame, IUFG, for shame.

As a wise man said, even a fúcked clock is right twice a day, iufg.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

The day when you agree with TY is the time to seek out the nearest cliff edge

[Monty92]

Olivier might've put the wind up 'em.

He could put the wind up me, imo

[Peter]

Yes. It’s hard to see why there’s even a question over whether Wenger stays or goes at this stage. When one finds oneself forced to agree with the array of gibbering spastics on Fan TV, one must either demand one’s family has one committed or accept that they are actually right and that he absolutely must go.

Even the Board must realise that any ****ing idiot could guide this side to finish sixth. So they could employ a manager on a fraction of Arsene's wages with no real cost to the club.

Sensible business decision....

[redgunamo]

Even the Board must realise that any ****ing idiot could guide this side to finish sixth. So they could employ a manager on a fraction of Arsene's wages with no real cost to the club.

Sensible business decision....

That's been true for several years though. It would seem harsh to call Him out on it now, out of the blue. What of loyalty, responsibilty?

[Burney]

Even the Board must realise that any ****ing idiot could guide this side to finish sixth. So they could employ a manager on a fraction of Arsene's wages with no real cost to the club.

Sensible business decision....

Well his own comments make clear that the players are no longer listening to him. He is not in control of his players, therefore he must go.

[SWv2]

Even the Board must realise that any ****ing idiot could guide this side to finish sixth. So they could employ a manager on a fraction of Arsene's wages with no real cost to the club.

Sensible business decision....

I suspect the whole 6th place thing is a massive part of the problem.

[Burney]

I suspect the whole 6th place thing is a massive part of the problem.

Maybe we could get into a relegation scrap? I’ve always fancied one of those. They look fun.

[IUFG]

Maybe we could get into a relegation scrap? I’ve always fancied one of those. They look fun.

I thought we might get close to one during 94-95...

[Ash]

That's been true for several years though. It would seem harsh to call Him out on it now, out of the blue. What of loyalty, responsibilty?

4th place was kind-of OK. Not perhaps ideal for the fans, but a lot better than 6th, and certainly from the board's point of view.

[SWv2]

4th place was kind-of OK. Not perhaps ideal for the fans, but a lot better than 6th, and certainly from the board's point of view.

I suspect another season of no CL coupled with the level of performances we have seen this season will cause some serious unrest on the top floor.

[Ash]

I suspect another season of no CL coupled with the level of performances we have seen this season will cause some serious unrest on the top floor.

:nod: Bread rolls being thrown out of the window and raining down onto Drayton Park.

[redgunamo]

4th place was kind-of OK. Not perhaps ideal for the fans, but a lot better than 6th, and certainly from the board's point of view.

I don't see why. Hasn't the Premier League just arranged a new, improved mega-billions television deal with somebody or other?

[redgunamo]

Yes. It’s hard to see why there’s even a question over whether Wenger stays or goes at this stage. When one finds oneself forced to agree with the array of gibbering spastics on Fan TV, one must either demand one’s family has one committed or accept that they are actually right and that he absolutely must go.

They were always right; their timing was out though. And possibly their tone.

[Just Trent]

Well his own comments make clear that the players are no longer listening to him. He is not in control of his players, therefore he must go.

At most other clubs, they say 'he's lost the dressing room' and that is soon the end of it. However, at Arsenal I think he 'loses the dressing room' once or twice a year. The club just choose to ignore it. It's quite a bizarre carry on really.

[Ash]

At most other clubs, they say 'he's lost the dressing room' and that is soon the end of it. However, at Arsenal I think he 'loses the dressing room' once or twice a year. The club just choose to ignore it. It's quite a bizarre carry on really.

If we lose on Thursday, as we probably will, that'll be four defeats in five matches, which will be our worst run since ... er, the last time this sort of thing happened.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Paging LA
Paging LA

[Peter]

I suspect the whole 6th place thing is a massive part of the problem.

Surely the problem is that we are hugely underperforming as a club and as a squad. For years now the only sensible argument against getting rid of Him was that the replacement might do even worse. I really think we have reached the point where that is virtually impossible and even if it did happen it would have to be much, much worse for it to make any real difference.

If you are going to finish 6th you may as well finish 8th, 9th, 10th.

[IUFG]

Paging LA
Paging LA

Groundhog Day innit

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/arsenal-on-their-worst-run-under-wenger/sactcgt7m4351uma7l801z1j0

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/naturalists-observe-annual-phenomenon-of-arsenal-shedding-spine-20160204105902

[SWv2]

Surely the problem is that we are hugely underperforming as a club and as a squad. For years now the only sensible argument against getting rid of Him was that the replacement might do even worse. I really think we have reached the point where that is virtually impossible and even if it did happen it would have to be much, much worse for it to make any real difference.

If you are going to finish 6th you may as well finish 8th, 9th, 10th.

Are we? How does on judge that.

There is no divine reason why we should be above City or United for example, they would regularly outspend us so one would maybe expect them to have better playing resources who in turn yield better performances and results.

Even on a good day how many of our side would get into the City 11? None?

I think what has been evident this year is the abject level of performance which has happened too many times, yet amazingly we still find ourselves in 6th place and kicking distance of the teams who are clearly better than us.

Last Thursday, **** me. Playing a bunch of Swedish no hopers (sorry BGS) who were still pre-season. Then yesterday with a vastly different personnel and one player out of the equation by being cup-tied. There has been others this season also, away from home as the home form is what is keeping us above the rest.

Any team can fúck up. We now expect to fúck up.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

By not performing we are underperforming
QED

[redgunamo]

Even on a good day how many of our side would get into the City 11? None?

If we were fifteen points clear at the top of the league, they all would. That's the point; on paper, there's no reason we shouldn't be, or cannot be.

Except, perhaps, one reason ..

[Tony C]

There’s an excellent video on YouTube of Graham Potter going through all the tactics Ostersund’s employed when beating Galatasary.

Pretty in depth and well worth a watch.

It’s completely different from Arsene on French TV explaining how we play ie Ramsey played a bit on the right and in midfield and Wilshere was a little bit more forward and little hit as a midfielder etc etc

Not saying Graham Potter is the new Mourinho but you clearly ain’t going to be successful on any scale without any sort of plan or tactics.

[Peter]

Are we? How does on judge that.

There is no divine reason why we should be above City or United for example, they would regularly outspend us so one would maybe expect them to have better playing resources who in turn yield better performances and results.

Even on a good day how many of our side would get into the City 11? None?

I think what has been evident this year is the abject level of performance which has happened too many times, yet amazingly we still find ourselves in 6th place and kicking distance of the teams who are clearly better than us.

Last Thursday, **** me. Playing a bunch of Swedish no hopers (sorry BGS) who were still pre-season. Then yesterday with a vastly different personnel and one player out of the equation by being cup-tied. There has been others this season also, away from home as the home form is what is keeping us above the rest.

Any team can fúck up. We now expect to fúck up.

Well, I think you can judge it by looking at your financial status compared to others. You can also judge it by the performance of your side relative to the quality in your squad.

We are not in kicking distance of City, they are light years ahead of us in the League. We are between 8 and 12 points behind four other sides who are certainly proving to be better than us. Two of those are Liverpool and Spurs who have smaller turnovers than we do and smaller wage bills. We are underperforming compared to those. THere is nothing about the status of the three clubs that suggests the other two should be performing better than us. Considerably better at present.

As a club I think it is clear we are under performing. Asa squad, I am witnessing performances from individuals that are nowhere near where they should be. As a unit we are all over the place in defence and midfield. THere is surely no question in anybody's mind that this group of players is capable of playing better than this???

[7sisters]

Monty's gone very quiet during all of this kerfuffle. No stoic last minute defence? perhaps the bestowing of cancer on the few that called the old tit out years a go ?

[SWv2]

Well, I think you can judge it by looking at your financial status compared to others. You can also judge it by the performance of your side relative to the quality in your squad.

We are not in kicking distance of City, they are light years ahead of us in the League. We are between 8 and 12 points behind four other sides who are certainly proving to be better than us. Two of those are Liverpool and Spurs who have smaller turnovers than we do and smaller wage bills. We are underperforming compared to those. THere is nothing about the status of the three clubs that suggests the other two should be performing better than us. Considerably better at present.

As a club I think it is clear we are under performing. Asa squad, I am witnessing performances from individuals that are nowhere near where they should be. As a unit we are all over the place in defence and midfield. THere is surely no question in anybody's mind that this group of players is capable of playing better than this???

Yet we won more last season than both of those teams combined have won in the past 5 years.

I’m just not sure the argument that we are underperforming is correct. I think what is wrong is our expectation as fans is wrong.

I don’t even contemplate us winning the league any more when we kick off in May, I did in the past. I know where our place is and I’m relatively cool with that.

It’s the level of performance that grinds my ****. Performance from very good players but players who appear to have little or no leadership.

[World's End Stella]

Monty's gone very quiet during all of this kerfuffle. No stoic last minute defence? perhaps the bestowing of cancer on the few that called the old tit out years a go ?

You've not been around enough recently, 7s. Monty's new view is that he recognized some time ago that Wenger was under-performing and therefore has been right all along.

The years preceding that when he wished cancer on anyone who dared question the SFC have been conveniently forgotten.

[Peter]

Yet we won more last season than both of those teams combined have won in the past 5 years.

I’m just not sure the argument that we are underperforming is correct. I think what is wrong is our expectation as fans is wrong.

I don’t even contemplate us winning the league any more when we kick off in May, I did in the past. I know where our place is and I’m relatively cool with that.

It’s the level of performance that grinds my ****. Performance from very good players but players who appear to have little or no leadership.

And that doesnt qualify as under performing??

Notice I made precisely no mention of winning the league. We are so far away from that it isnt even worth thinking about. Our goal is now to challenge (not accomplish, but challenge) for distant fourth because right now that is a long way off and looks dead in the water with a third of the season gone.

I think fourth is about where we should be- there or thereabouts. Bit higher in a good year, bit beneath in a bad one.

However, even if we were challenging for fourth right now it wouldnt change the fact that this group of players looks horribly disorganised and is performing poorly. THat alone strongly suggests that we can and should be doing better. That really should be enough to prompt change of some sort.

[SWv2]

And that doesnt qualify as under performing??

Notice I made precisely no mention of winning the league. We are so far away from that it isnt even worth thinking about. Our goal is now to challenge (not accomplish, but challenge) for distant fourth because right now that is a long way off and looks dead in the water with a third of the season gone.

I think fourth is about where we should be- there or thereabouts. Bit higher in a good year, bit beneath in a bad one.

However, even if we were challenging for fourth right now it wouldnt change the fact that this group of players looks horribly disorganised and is performing poorly. THat alone strongly suggests that we can and should be doing better. That really should be enough to prompt change of some sort.

I agree with you.

[Ash]

Monty's gone very quiet during all of this kerfuffle. No stoic last minute defence? perhaps the bestowing of cancer on the few that called the old tit out years a go ?

That the time is right for him to go now does not mean that the time was right then. Not that I have any wish to once again rehearse the old arguments. At least now there is no great schism, as all but a few are agreed that it is time for change. Had he gone when we were still playing decent football the divide would have carried on into the new regime.

[Peter]

I agree with you.

Sorry- who do you agree with??

[Peter]

That the time is right for him to go now does not mean that the time was right then. Not that I have any wish to once again rehearse the old arguments. At least now there is no great schism, as all but a few are agreed that it is time for change. Had he gone when we were still playing decent football the divide would have carried on into the new regime.

Indeed, if the time is right for him to go now then it suggests that the time was NOT right then. If then was the right time then now is way past when he should have gone and not in fact the right time at all but long past it.

[SWv2]

Sorry- who do you agree with??

You. Pedro. The big Pete. El Peter.

Rover driver.

[IUFG]

Indeed, if the time is right for him to go now then it suggests that the time was NOT right then. If then was the right time then now is way past when he should have gone and not in fact the right time at all but long past it.

Thanks for clearing that up, p

[Ash]

And that doesnt qualify as under performing??

Notice I made precisely no mention of winning the league. We are so far away from that it isnt even worth thinking about. Our goal is now to challenge (not accomplish, but challenge) for distant fourth because right now that is a long way off and looks dead in the water with a third of the season gone.

I think fourth is about where we should be- there or thereabouts. Bit higher in a good year, bit beneath in a bad one.

However, even if we were challenging for fourth right now it wouldnt change the fact that this group of players looks horribly disorganised and is performing poorly. THat alone strongly suggests that we can and should be doing better. That really should be enough to prompt change of some sort.

I find it a bit weird that people are pining for fourth now that it is so distant, and saying it is where we should be, when being fourth at the time was never considered good enough, and the fact that other clubs had more money was just a weak excuse for not winning, or regularly challenging for, the league.

[Ash]

Indeed, if the time is right for him to go now then it suggests that the time was NOT right then. If then was the right time then now is way past when he should have gone and not in fact the right time at all but long past it.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wvPyorVv61E/WoigWP9C0cI/AAAAAAAADS4/0xhw6KFB6Ms-t6ZMqz78gW9WGvEycdW-gCLcBGAs/s1600/Sir%2BHumphrey%2BAppleby.jpg

[SWv2]

I find it a bit weird that people are pining for fourth now that it is so distant, and saying it is where we should be, when being fourth at the time was never considered good enough, and the fact that other clubs had more money was just a weak excuse for not winning, or regularly challenging for, the league.

More willing to spend A.

We have loads of money, it is simply resting in Coutts.

[IUFG]

More willing to spend A.

We have loads of money, it is simply resting in Coutts.

that pile of cash will win the Arsenal Player of the Season award this year...

[World's End Stella]

That the time is right for him to go now does not mean that the time was right then. Not that I have any wish to once again rehearse the old arguments. At least now there is no great schism, as all but a few are agreed that it is time for change. Had he gone when we were still playing decent football the divide would have carried on into the new regime.

While it being right for him to go now does not mean that it was right then, it at least means it might have been right then. And remember that people like Monty and others back then weren't making the argument that there are bad signs but he deserves the chance to turn it around etc etc. They were making the argument that anyone who questioned him is an intellectually challenged, working class moron who needs a new hobby and deserves cancer.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, would anyone really argue that 2-3 years ago when Klopp and Pochettino were on the market wouldn't have been an awfully good time for him to go? There had been steady decline post the youth experiment at that point and we were beginning to see the stagnation we have now taking hold. I'm not convinced the intervening 2-3 years has been good for anyone.

Most of all, Wenger.

[Ash]

More willing to spend A.

We have loads of money, it is simply resting in Coutts.

So what we needed was more dodgy Albanians at £35m a pop?

EDIT: and it is false to pretend that we had as much money than them, even if we had a bit more than we spent imo.

[Peter]

You. Pedro. The big Pete. El Peter.

Rover driver.

I am never going to live that Rover down am I.....

[Ash]

I am never going to live that Rover down am I.....

Apparently not. They're a tough audience on here.

[Peter]

So what we needed was more dodgy Albanians at £35m a pop?

EDIT: and it is false to pretend that we had as much money than them, even if we had a bit more than we spent imo.

It is customary within any business model to ensure that one has at ones disposal slightly more than one spends. Its obvious really, whilst one wishes to maximise the spending power of the resources one has at ones disposal one is also mindful of ones responsibility to ensure that such spending does not place in an invidious position the long term financial stability of ones organisation particularly where the use of such resources, and the perceived benefits of the spending of those resources, is so closely tied to the very long term stability one would be endangering.

[redgunamo]

I find it a bit weird that people are pining for fourth now that it is so distant, and saying it is where we should be, when being fourth at the time was never considered good enough, and the fact that other clubs had more money was just a weak excuse for not winning, or regularly challenging for, the league.

Not a weak excuse so much as it was weak to make an excuse out of it. A strategic disaster too as it convinced our players they weren't really good enough (because if they were, they would be playing for Chelsea or Real Madrid et al).

[Peter]

Apparently not. They're a tough audience on here.

It was a very nice car......

when it worked.

which wasnt often.

[IUFG]

It is customary within any business model to ensure that one has at ones disposal slightly more than one spends. Its obvious really, whilst one wishes to maximise the spending power of the resources one has at ones disposal one is also mindful of ones responsibility to ensure that such spending does not place in an invidious position the long term financial stability of ones organisation particularly where the use of such resources, and the perceived benefits of the spending of those resources, is so closely tied to the very long term stability one would be endangering.

Post reported to the Labour party

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

It was a very nice car......

when it worked.

which wasnt often.


Haven't you just made everyone's point for them ;-)

[Peter]

Haven't you just made everyone's point for them ;-)

The car made their point for them by dropping dead for no reason. I didnt even get a chance to say goodbye :(

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Not a weak excuse so much as it was weak to make an excuse out of it. A strategic disaster too as it convinced our players they weren't really good enough (because if they were, they would be playing for Chelsea or Real Madrid et al).


Or convinced those that were/maybe good enough to leave.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

The car made their point for them by dropping dead for no reason. I didnt even get a chance to say goodbye :(


I'm assuming that you have not bought a new Rover to replace the old Rover?

[SWv2]

So what we needed was more dodgy Albanians at £35m a pop?

EDIT: and it is false to pretend that we had as much money than them, even if we had a bit more than we spent imo.

I never said we have as much, but we had a lot more than we were spending or willing to spend.

Essentially we tried to do it on the cheap.

FTR I think Xhaka is a very good footballer.

[Peter]

I'm assuming that you have not bought a new Rover to replace the old Rover?

Oh good god, no. the bloody thing went wrong fairly regularly and the garage asked me to find another mechanic eventually because they hated working on it.

[redgunamo]

It was a very nice car......

when it worked.

which wasnt often.

Odd business really. I always loved my Land Rovers, drove them for years. My absolute favourite, perfect vehicle.

That was before the wife began throwing her weight about :-|

[The Insider]

Personally, I thought that losing to Luton in 1988 was ten times worse than yesterday and that was with a team full of solid English types......and Birmingham tbh. You should all buck up and get a grip.