So no more F1 Grid Girls and no scantily clad, fit birds leading the darts chaps out

[World's End Stella]

Why does someone always have to ruin the fun nowadays?

:-(

[IUFG]

Why does someone always have to ruin the fun nowadays?

:-(

There will be bethonged, ugly blokes cavorting in the windows of Amsterdam whorehouses next :equality:

[Burney]

Why does someone always have to ruin the fun nowadays?

:-(

This masquerades as identity politics, but like so much identity politics it is in fact as much about class.

Middle class men and women are dictating to working class women the ways in which they should be allowed to earn money. They are not regarded as having agency or sufficient 'education' to make such decisions for themselves, so their 'betters' are deciding for them.

It is deeply, deeply nasty.

[Pokster]

Why does someone always have to ruin the fun nowadays?

:-(

Well it does make you think that any TV programme that show men or women in few clothes will be next...8 out of 10 cats doing countdown has men in pants every show.

WWE Wresting must be concerned imo

[Billy Goat Sverige]

This masquerades as identity politics, but like so much identity politics it is in fact as much about class.

Middle class men and women are dictating to working class women the ways in which they should be allowed to earn money. They are not regarded as having agency or sufficient 'education' to make such decisions for themselves, so their 'betters' are deciding for them.

It is deeply, deeply nasty.

Saw a tweet from a girl who works as a grid girl complaining about how the pretend feminists have taken away her way of making a living. Can’t help but agree with her. The funny thing is grid girls just stand there in tight dresses. Models on the catwalk are often showing quite a bit more than a grid girl. Will we do away with those now or is that a bit to upmarket?

[Monty92]

This masquerades as identity politics, but like so much identity politics it is in fact as much about class.

Middle class men and women are dictating to working class women the ways in which they should be allowed to earn money. They are not regarded as having agency or sufficient 'education' to make such decisions for themselves, so their 'betters' are deciding for them.

It is deeply, deeply nasty.

Yes, Beverley Turner (former F1 presenter) was on the radio yesterday and was asked about the fact that these women are doing these jobs entirely voluntarily, to which she replied "some women don't know when they are being exploited"

Quite incredible.

[Monty92]

Well it does make you think that any TV programme that show men or women in few clothes will be next...8 out of 10 cats doing countdown has men in pants every show.

WWE Wresting must be concerned imo

This is considered whataboutery, at best, since the prevailing societal problem is men's exploitation of women, not women's exploitation of men.

[World's End Stella]

Yes, Beverley Turner (former F1 presenter) was on the radio yesterday and was asked about the fact that these women are doing these jobs entirely voluntarily, to which she replied "some women don't know when they are being exploited"

Quite incredible.

I'm assuming the golf bird on Sky, Sarah Stirk, will no longer be presenting or at the very least will change her wardrobe considerably. Perhaps a nice Burkha will suffice. :rolleyes:

[Monty92]

Saw a tweet from a girl who works as a grid girl complaining about how the pretend feminists have taken away her way of making a living. Can’t help but agree with her. The funny thing is grid girls just stand there in tight dresses. Models on the catwalk are often showing quite a bit more than a grid girl. Will we do away with those now or is that a bit to upmarket?

In modelling at least there is something resembling equivalence, in that men on catwalks are highly common, unlike F1 or darts.

[Pat Vegas]

Well it does make you think that any TV programme that show men or women in few clothes will be next...8 out of 10 cats doing countdown has men in pants every show.

WWE Wresting must be concerned imo

They've gone all equality on that too. They even have a womens royal rumble and put it as the main event :-(
the top rope is too high for them to be thrown over so they look silly.

[Burney]

Yes, Beverley Turner (former F1 presenter) was on the radio yesterday and was asked about the fact that these women are doing these jobs entirely voluntarily, to which she replied "some women don't know when they are being exploited"

Quite incredible.

The hypocrisy is stunning. Not least because Beverley Turner is a former model, ffs! She has traded on her looks to get where she is, but dares to disapprove of other women doing the same. Let's face it, there is absolutely zero chance she'd have got that F1 gig if she'd looked like Clare Balding.

[Burney]

In modelling at least there is something resembling equivalence, in that men on catwalks are highly common, unlike F1 or darts.

In fact, as with porn stars, female models get paid more than the men.

Nothing to do with the male gaze being quite lucrative, though. Oh, no!

[Tony C]

Quite liked the RR...was hoping Stacy Kiebler would be back...shame

[Burney]

I'm assuming the golf bird on Sky, Sarah Stirk, will no longer be presenting or at the very least will change her wardrobe considerably. Perhaps a nice Burkha will suffice. :rolleyes:

Well let's ask ourselves about Sky Sports' hiring practices vis-a-vis female presenters, shall we? It's obviously pure coincidence that they all happen to look a certain way, I'm sure. :hehe:

[Tony C]

Forget the lack of Black managers...where are the women managers?

We should start to reverse troll the feminists imo

[Monty92]

In fact, as with porn stars, female models get paid more than the men.

Nothing to do with the male gaze being quite lucrative, though. Oh, no!

I'm sure they would be willing to take a pay cut to rectify the gender pay gap that discriminates against male models.

[7sisters]

Forget the lack of Black managers...where are the women managers?

We should start to reverse troll the feminists imo

I still struggle listening to the thin, reedy voices of the female football commentator. It just doesn't scan for me. I'm reminded of the many aspiring 8 year olds on Jim'll jinx it, each squawking away, acting out their hopes and dreams of copying the excitable Brian Moore.
And, sadly, all the while, Saville was most probably acting out his brand of encouragement to those, all too naïve young hopefuls from simpler times.

[Peter]

This masquerades as identity politics, but like so much identity politics it is in fact as much about class.

Middle class men and women are dictating to working class women the ways in which they should be allowed to earn money. They are not regarded as having agency or sufficient 'education' to make such decisions for themselves, so their 'betters' are deciding for them.

It is deeply, deeply nasty.

You old class warrior, you. Good on yer, B!

[Burney]

You old class warrior, you. Good on yer, B!

I see no conflict between being a conservative and objecting to the high-handed, 'we know best' snobbery of the bien pensant left, p.

[Luis Anaconda]

I see no conflict between being a conservative and objecting to the high-handed, 'we know best' snobbery of the bien pensant left, p.

While on the whole I agree with you and F1 was fine, but the whole darts thing was very creepy though - particularly when Phil "The Power" Tailor was involved

[redgunamo]

I see no conflict between being a conservative and objecting to the high-handed, 'we know best' snobbery of the bien pensant left, p.

Voting Tory and being a conservative ain't the same thing though. That's the real trouble.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Do they still have women walking round the boxing ring carrying board numbers between rounds or did they go out of fashion with shiny shorts ?

[Peter]

I see no conflict between being a conservative and objecting to the high-handed, 'we know best' snobbery of the bien pensant left, p.

Oh certainly not. Of course, some would say that viewing these sorts of things through class makes one something of a Marxist, in form or another.

Not me.

[SWv2]

Do they still have women walking round the boxing ring carrying board numbers between rounds or did they go out of fashion with shiny shorts ?

Shiny shorts are out of fashion?

[Ash]

Oh certainly not. Of course, some would say that viewing these sorts of things through class makes one something of a Marxist, in form or another.

Not me.

It is a view that a Marxist should agree with though. Understanding the world in terms of the relationship between social classes is what Historical Materialism is about, after all.

And yes, this is a case of a bien pensent middle class dictating to a lower class. Funnily enough, this is something that the 'right' (be they real conservatives or mere Tory-voters) is often better at spotting these days than the fake left, who have absolutely no clue about class any more, or any self-awareness about their new role as loyal and fervant supporters of the establishment, ruling class.

In short, when I were a nipper the 'right' were in charge and the 'left' were the rebels. Now it looks more the other way round imo.

[Ash]

Saw a tweet from a girl who works as a grid girl complaining about how the pretend feminists have taken away her way of making a living. Can’t help but agree with her. The funny thing is grid girls just stand there in tight dresses. Models on the catwalk are often showing quite a bit more than a grid girl. Will we do away with those now or is that a bit to upmarket?

Question is, will somone still need to stand there on the very crowded F1 grid holding up a lollypop showing the driver where his slot is (fnar fnar)? If so it will probably be some bloke on the team, who will be taking the girl's job.

I expect they'll use the radio to guide them in though to avoid them thar optics.

[PSRB]

Do they still have women walking round the boxing ring carrying board numbers between rounds or did they go out of fashion with shiny shorts ?

They still do but they never show them on the telly

[redgunamo]

It is a view that a Marxist should agree with though. Understanding the world in terms of the relationship between social classes is what Historical Materialism is about, after all.

And yes, this is a case of a bien pensent middle class dictating to a lower class. Funnily enough, this is something that the 'right' (be they real conservatives or mere Tory-voters) is often better at spotting these days than the fake left, who have absolutely no clue about class any more, or any self-awareness about their new role as loyal and fervant supporters of the establishment, ruling class.

In short, when I were a nipper the 'right' were in charge and the 'left' were the rebels. Now it looks more the other way round imo.

Money has ruined everything :-(

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5a713bac202075669b8fb56a/master/pass/trump=state-of-the-union-congressional-black-caucus.jpg

[Burney]

It is a view that a Marxist should agree with though. Understanding the world in terms of the relationship between social classes is what Historical Materialism is about, after all.

And yes, this is a case of a bien pensent middle class dictating to a lower class. Funnily enough, this is something that the 'right' (be they real conservatives or mere Tory-voters) is often better at spotting these days than the fake left, who have absolutely no clue about class any more, or any self-awareness about their new role as loyal and fervant supporters of the establishment, ruling class.

In short, when I were a nipper the 'right' were in charge and the 'left' were the rebels. Now it looks more the other way round imo.

:nod: As the left comprehensively lost the battle for political power, they comprehensively won the battle for cultural supremacy via education, academia, media, etc. Their ideas became doctrine to such an extent that, when the country voted for a relatively fiscally conservative Labour party, they got hard left-wing dogma as social policy. The Conservative Party in 2010 - completely misjudging the public mood and their own demographics - decided they needed to buy in to this horseshít, so since then we've had left-wing Tory governments ramming this crap down our throats. This has left vast numbers of traditional conservatives excluded, disenfranchised and bemused at finding themselves labelled as 'hard right'. They have therefore thought to themselves 'fück that' and become politically engaged.

[Sir C]

:nod: As the left comprehensively lost the battle for political power, they comprehensively won the battle for cultural supremacy via education, academia, media, etc. Their ideas became doctrine to such an extent that, when the country voted for a relatively fiscally conservative Labour party, they got hard left-wing dogma as social policy. The Conservative Party in 2010 - completely misjudging the public mood and their own demographics - decided they needed to buy in to this horseshít, so since then we've had left-wing Tory governments ramming this crap down our throats. This has left vast numbers of traditional conservatives excluded, disenfranchised and bemused at finding themselves labelled as 'hard right'. They have therefore thought to themselves 'fück that' and become politically engaged.

Have they? Have they become politically engaged? I'm not persuaded. I see no evidence of any fightback.

[Burney]

Have they? Have they become politically engaged? I'm not persuaded. I see no evidence of any fightback.

You don't see the Leave vote as evidence of a fightback? I'd say it was the single biggest spoke in the wheel that the 'there is no alternative'/'progressive' movement has seen in this country. That's why they're so cross.

[redgunamo]

It is a view that a Marxist should agree with though. Understanding the world in terms of the relationship between social classes is what Historical Materialism is about, after all.

And yes, this is a case of a bien pensent middle class dictating to a lower class. Funnily enough, this is something that the 'right' (be they real conservatives or mere Tory-voters) is often better at spotting these days than the fake left, who have absolutely no clue about class any more, or any self-awareness about their new role as loyal and fervant supporters of the establishment, ruling class.

In short, when I were a nipper the 'right' were in charge and the 'left' were the rebels. Now it looks more the other way round imo.

Perhaps it's more about breeding than class?

[Sir C]

You don't see the Leave vote as evidence of a fightback? I'd say it was the single biggest spoke in the wheel that the 'there is no alternative'/'progressive' movement has seen in this country. That's why they're so cross.

Hmm, a proportion of leave voters were far from politically engaged, to be fair. You know how it's dreadful how the Left sneers at white van man for being ignorant? Well, it's both dreadful and true. :-(

I fear that the vast majority of conservatives who are capable of cogent thought have actually surrendered, beaten by 70 years of socialism.

[World's End Stella]

You don't see the Leave vote as evidence of a fightback? I'd say it was the single biggest spoke in the wheel that the 'there is no alternative'/'progressive' movement has seen in this country. That's why they're so cross.

That's only true if by 'traditional conservatives' you mean 'old people' because as has been pointed out to you many times, we only voted leave because of the 55+ vote so any narrative which suggests that it was part of a movement of some kind which spans all age groups is simply incorrect.

[Burney]

That's only true if by 'traditional conservatives' you mean 'old people' because as has been pointed out to you many times, we only voted leave because of the 55+ vote so any narrative which suggests that it was part of a movement of some kind which spans all age groups is simply incorrect.

:hehe: Just because a view predominates in one age group, it doesn't follow that it doesn't span all age groups, you silly fellow.

[World's End Stella]

:hehe: Just because a view predominates in one age group, it doesn't follow that it doesn't span all age groups, you silly fellow.

Well, you referred to the Leave vote as specific evidence of this 'fightback'. So what's the evidence of this fightback in people < 55, because the Leave vote was not it.

Which was my point.

[Burney]

Hmm, a proportion of leave voters were far from politically engaged, to be fair. You know how it's dreadful how the Left sneers at white van man for being ignorant? Well, it's both dreadful and true. :-(

I fear that the vast majority of conservatives who are capable of cogent thought have actually surrendered, beaten by 70 years of socialism.


There was a large proportion of both sides that weren't particularly politically engaged. So what? It doesn't alter the fact that a lot of Leave voters were politically engaged. Nobody was suggesting that this trend was universal.

And I don't think conservatives have surrendered. They've just gone underground to avoid being called racist and screamed at by lefties.

[Burney]

Well, you referred to the Leave vote as specific evidence of this 'fightback'. So what's the evidence of this fightback in people < 55, because the Leave vote was not it.

Which was my point.

It's a movement because sufficient numbers of the brainwashed post-1975 generations have retained sufficient independence of mind to stick two fingers up to their masters rather than meekly doing as they're told. By doing so, those people shaped the outcome of the referendum just as much as the over-55s.

[Sir C]

There was a large proportion of both sides that weren't particularly politically engaged. So what? It doesn't alter the fact that a lot of Leave voters were politically engaged. Nobody was suggesting that this trend was universal.

And I don't think conservatives have surrendered. They've just gone underground to avoid being called racist and screamed at by lefties.

But that's what I mean; by going underground to avoid having falafel crumbs spat into our faces by screeching harridans, we have surrendered.

The triumph of the Left is in sight. Mark my words, all it needs is enough division within the Conservative party to envoke a vote of no confidence, a general election, and *bosh* it will be all over. They will have absolute control, cultural, moral and political, and they will never, ever surrender it.

[Burney]

But that's what I mean; by going underground to avoid having falafel crumbs spat into our faces by screeching harridans, we have surrendered.

The triumph of the Left is in sight. Mark my words, all it needs is enough division within the Conservative party to envoke a vote of no confidence, a general election, and *bosh* it will be all over. They will have absolute control, cultural, moral and political, and they will never, ever surrender it.

That assumes the country would be stupid enough to vote Corbyn in. I'm not convinced that will happen.

[Sir C]

That assumes the country would be stupid enough to vote Corbyn in. I'm not convinced that will happen.

How can they still be polling level with the Tories? What more evidence do people want of the kind of people Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott are? I remember someone on here standing up for him on the grounds that 'he's a good MP'. So the virulent anti-semitism, hatred of the UK, support for terrorism and record of lying is irrelevant because 'he's a good MP'? It sounds utterly bonkers to me, but if that's how 'the people' (God help us) think, and these people are allowed a vote, we're in a great deal of trouble.

[Ash]

Perhaps it's more about breeding than class?

It always is with you, isn't it?

I didn't know about Mr Stork's Africa connection btw. Though I had heard about the timing of his wife's promotion and the nixxing of the email investigation. Looks like the memo is going to be released today. D's in meltdown. I wonder what the British media will make of it, having apparently never heard of it so far? MI6 man in US election interference shocker? Doubt it. :hehe:

[redgunamo]

There was a large proportion of both sides that weren't particularly politically engaged. So what? It doesn't alter the fact that a lot of Leave voters were politically engaged. Nobody was suggesting that this trend was universal.

And I don't think conservatives have surrendered. They've just gone underground to avoid being called racist and screamed at by lefties.

:nod: And we've got Range Rovers and Vuitton court shoes for the wife to buy and beef and boar for the hounds to organise and we're constantly trying to stop the kids beating each other over the head with their Nintendos and Macbooks. No time left for politics so the more, shall we say, independently-minded sorts, young people and homos, will have to deal with all that instead.

[Burney]

How can they still be polling level with the Tories? What more evidence do people want of the kind of people Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott are? I remember someone on here standing up for him on the grounds that 'he's a good MP'. So the virulent anti-semitism, hatred of the UK, support for terrorism and record of lying is irrelevant because 'he's a good MP'? It sounds utterly bonkers to me, but if that's how 'the people' (God help us) think, and these people are allowed a vote, we're in a great deal of trouble.

Granted, I find it extraordinary the number of moderate, apparently sane and reasonable Labour moderates who will acknowledge all those things and still vote Labour. I despair at the blinkered stupidity, tribalism and narrow-mindedness it takes to behave like that. However, polling level with the Tories at the moment is a genuinely terrible situation for Labour, given that their support is almost always over-estimated (particularly now in the light of them being under-estimated by pollsters in the last election and the over-compensation that's taking place).
I still maintain that Corbyn's result last year was a misplaced and ill-thought-out protest vote against Brexit rather than any signal of a widespread acceptance of what we'll laughingly refer to his 'ideas'. I don't think most of the people who voted Labour last time thought for a minute it would mean a Corbyn government. Had they done so, I suspect things might have been different.
It was also the worst election campaign I've ever seen from a Tory party - ever.

Those factors will be significantly different in any new election.

[World's End Stella]

It's a movement because sufficient numbers of the brainwashed post-1975 generations have retained sufficient independence of mind to stick two fingers up to their masters rather than meekly doing as they're told. By doing so, those people shaped the outcome of the referendum just as much as the over-55s.

I see no evidence of this fight back in the Leave vote and using it as an example is a huge logical stretch. I think the phenomenon you are describing (which I agree exists) is most evident in how few people under the age of 40 classify themselves as Conservative, let alone right wing or strongly Conservative, despite holding views that are traditionally associated with Conservatives.

If there is going to be a fight back, I would think our friend Jeremy and that appalling cretin McDonnell getting anywhere near power is more likely to trigger it.

[Monty92]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/29/no-youthquake-for-labour-in-2017-election-survey-finds-british-election-study-corbyn

While reassuring, I do still worry about how many more of the 30-40 demographic (where the real surge came) will have been mobilised by Labour's social media efforts by the time of the next election.





Granted, I find it extraordinary the number of moderate, apparently sane and reasonable Labour moderates who will acknowledge all those things and still vote Labour. I despair at the blinkered stupidity, tribalism and narrow-mindedness it takes to behave like that. However, polling level with the Tories at the moment is a genuinely terrible situation for Labour, given that their support is almost always over-estimated (particularly now in the light of them being under-estimated by pollsters in the last election and the over-compensation that's taking place).
I still maintain that Corbyn's result last year was a misplaced and ill-thought-out protest vote against Brexit rather than any signal of a widespread acceptance of what we'll laughingly refer to his 'ideas'. I don't think most of the people who voted Labour last time thought for a minute it would mean a Corbyn government. Had they done so, I suspect things might have been different.
It was also the worst election campaign I've ever seen from a Tory party - ever.

Those factors will be significantly different in any new election.

[redgunamo]

BO's favourite general? Uranium from Mumbojumboland? The other stork brother and the priest? Probably all a coincidence :rubchin:

#ReleaseALLtheMemos :hehe:



It always is with you, isn't it?

I didn't know about Mr Stork's Africa connection btw. Though I had heard about the timing of his wife's promotion and the nixxing of the email investigation. Looks like the memo is going to be released today. D's in meltdown. I wonder what the British media will make of it, having apparently never heard of it so far? M16 man in US election interference shocker? Doubt it. :hehe:

[Burney]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/29/no-youthquake-for-labour-in-2017-election-survey-finds-british-election-study-corbyn

While reassuring, I do still worry about how many more of the 30-40 demographic (where the real surge came) will have been mobilised by Labour's social media efforts by the time of the next election.

I did. Are we sure it was down to social media efforts? Only I would suggest that the surge from that generation - i.e. your generation - of middle-class lefty types is from the social demographic that's also the most notably angry and unforgiving about Brexit. That would seem to me to tally with my 'protest vote' theory.

[Monty92]

I did. Are we sure it was down to social media efforts? Only I would suggest that the surge from that generation - i.e. your generation - of middle-class lefty types is from the social demographic that's also the most notably angry and unforgiving about Brexit. That would seem to me to tally with my 'protest vote' theory.

Certainly, yes. But my suspicion is that many of these middle class lefty types were also largely politically disengaged *until* they were bombarded with anti-Brexit, anti-Tory memes on social media.

[Burney]

Certainly, yes. But my suspicion is that many of these middle class lefty types were also largely politically disengaged *until* they were bombarded with anti-Brexit, anti-Tory memes on social media.

I agree there's an element of that. How long it can be sustained, however, is another matter.

Your sister, for instance. She told you she was going to vote Corbyn. Would you say she's been radicalised?

[Monty92]

I agree there's an element of that. How long it can be sustained, however, is another matter.

Your sister, for instance. She told you she was going to vote Corbyn. Would you say she's been radicalised?

My sister voted for Brexit before (nearly) voting for Corbyn, so in one sense she’s a terrible example.

On the other, she’s a good one as she's part of another key Corbyn demographic: the one swayed by his undeniable normality (compared with your average politician) which makes him instantly likeable and sympathetic to anyone unaware of (or simply uninterested in) what he actually believes.

[Burney]

My sister voted for Brexit before (nearly) voting for Corbyn, so in one sense she’s a terrible example.

On the other, she’s a good one as she's part of another key Corbyn demographic: the one swayed by his undeniable normality (compared with your average politician) which makes him instantly likeable and sympathetic to anyone unaware of (or simply uninterested in) what he actually believes.

Is intellectual negligibility what passes for normal these days, then? How depressing. :-(

[Sir C]

Is intellectual negligibility what passes for normal these days, then? How depressing. :-(

This is exactly what I mean. monty appears able to accept, with some equanimity, that his sister voted for the traitor Corbyn because he is 'likeable', whereas any normal human being would be busy have her sectioned. It's not just that she's a pig**** ignorant maniac, it's that the people around her are offering no guidance because they're just as bad.

[Monty92]

She didn’t vote for him. I persuaded her not to the night before.

I’m aware this doesn’t substantively alter your point.


This is exactly what I mean. monty appears able to accept, with some equanimity, that his sister voted for the traitor Corbyn because he is 'likeable', whereas any normal human being would be busy have her sectioned. It's not just that she's a pig**** ignorant maniac, it's that the people around her are offering no guidance because they're just as bad.

[Monty92]

Come on . I hate the **** but even I can see his appeal when compared to the abject weirdness of 99% of politicians.


Is intellectual negligibility what passes for normal these days, then? How depressing. :-(

[Sir C]

Come on . I hate the **** but even I can see his appeal when compared to the abject weirdness of 99% of politicians.

You find him appealling? Do you mean... sexually? :-(

[Burney]

She didn’t vote for him. I persuaded her not to the night before.

I’m aware this doesn’t substantively alter your point.

How did your sister get to the stage where, as a Person of Jewishness (PoJ), she was unaware of the virulent strain of anti-semitism endorsed by Corbyn? How little attention was she paying?

[Burney]

Come on . I hate the **** but even I can see his appeal when compared to the abject weirdness of 99% of politicians.

Really? I always think he looks like he has absolutely appalling breath. :-(

I mean the real 'something's died in there' type. The type that bitter old bachelor teachers get.

[Monty92]

You only need to look at John McDonnell to see the pull factor of Corbyn’s personality Exactly the same politics and ideology but Mcdonell would have destroyed Labour as leader.

Corbyn comes across as authentic and that counts for an awful lot.

And the parallels with Trump don’t end there, either...




Really? I always think he looks like he has absolutely appalling breath. :-(

I mean the real 'something's died in there' type. The type that bitter old bachelor teachers get.

[Monty92]

She’s about as Jewish as me, without the nose...


How did your sister get to the stage where, as a Person of Jewishness (PoJ), she was unaware of the virulent strain of anti-semitism endorsed by Corbyn? How little attention was she paying?

[Peter]

Really? I always think he looks like he has absolutely appalling breath. :-(

I mean the real 'something's died in there' type. The type that bitter old bachelor teachers get.

My mother is a confirmed lefty and has been all her life. She absolutely ****ing hates him an chose not to vote for the first time in her life.

[World's End Stella]

My mother is a confirmed lefty and has been all her life. She absolutely ****ing hates him an chose not to vote for the first time in her life.

Out of interest, what is it that she hates about him?

[Peter]

Out of interest, what is it that she hates about him?

An idiot, a puppet of the whole momentum lot, with McDonnell as the prime ****. She also thinks he is a patronising **** who knows nothing, and cares even less, about the 'ordinary people' he keeps talking about.

It is the grass roots ****ers that she really hates. They have infiltrated all the local party organisations and sit there sneering at the activists that have organised the party work for decades, calling them 'playthings of Blair', amongst other things.

My dad, a peaceful and reasonable man approaching 70, recently made a fair attempt at chinning one of them in what one of the funniest evenings I can remember :) I really should have done it for him....