May I ask, in an entirely judgement-free way, whether our resident Sanchez bashers

[Monty92]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

[PSRB]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

Form is temporary, etc, etc. Of course, I'd rather he stayed as he can't continue to be this bad

[Sir C]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

I've wanted him sold since his tantrum shenanigans last season.

It's a shame, because he has a lovely smile.

[Pokster]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

Depends how much we got for him. Every player has his worth

[Monty92]

Depends how much we got for him. Every player has his worth

Well it's gonna be piss-all in Jan, isn't it. £40m max?

[Pokster]

Well it's gonna be piss-all in Jan, isn't it. £40m max?

I would suggest that if anyone was silly enough to offer £40m for him in jan that we bite their hands off

[Monty92]

I would suggest that if anyone was silly enough to offer £40m for him in jan that we bite their hands off

Contingent on us buying someone half-decent?

[Pokster]

Contingent on us buying someone half-decent?

I would assume that a club the size of ours would have plans in place to cover every eventuality

We would have sold him in the summer if we could have gto the TL deal done, so all AW's comments about wanting to keep him are just for sound bites and he knows full well that he is leaving within the next 7 months

[Peter]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

Signed up and then sold in the summer. Or just sold now.

Either way, I want him gone. ****.

[Monty92]

Signed up and then sold in the summer. Or just sold now.

Either way, I want him gone. ****.

Contrary to my original post, you may not be entirely surprised to know that I'm judging you in a negative way right now.

What did you make of the Quilliam report into grooming gangs? Useful?

[Pat Vegas]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

At this point sold. I think he is tremendous player but I think he is causing disruption. It's hard to go back from that.

[Peter]

Contrary to my original post, you may not be entirely surprised to know that I'm judging you in a negative way right now.

What did you make of the Quilliam report into grooming gangs? Useful?

I havent read it, m. Have you?

[Monty92]

I havent read it, m. Have you?

Skimmed it. Apparently we need to help Pakistani men integrate better, otherwise they are inclined to rape children.

[Peter]

Skimmed it. Apparently we need to help Pakistani men integrate better, otherwise they are inclined to rape children.

Sounds like a win-win to me. Might stop them beating the **** out of your son as well. Have you sorted that out yet? You have to nip this stuff in the bud.

Two things it is never too early to teach a boy- how to punch and how to bat.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Skimmed it. Apparently we need to help Pakistani men integrate better, otherwise they are inclined to rape children.


Do you concur with that suggestion?

[Monty92]

Do you concur with that suggestion?

I think it's possible that we already do an adequate amount to help them integrate, what with them having all the freedoms to follow their own paths in life that they would be denied in their home country.

I also treat the suggestion with disdain, since it is clearly intended as a fudge designed to divert attention away from the true root causes that dare not speak their name.

[Peter]

I think it's possible that we already do an adequate amount to help them integrate, what with them having all the freedoms to follow their own paths in life that they would be denied in their home country.

I also treat the suggestion with disdain, since it is clearly intended as a fudge designed to divert attention away from the true root causes that dare not speak their name.

LEAVING ASIDE the root cause for now, what would be your solution to stop rape. Because, lets face it, what matters here is stopping children being raped, not articulating our own ideas over what should and shouldn't be said or thought.

[Sir C]

LEAVING ASIDE the root cause for now, what would be your solution to stop rape. Because, lets face it, what matters here is stopping children being raped, not articulating our own ideas over what should and shouldn't be said or thought.

One suspects that there is little that can be done about it now, save allowing the police to prosecute those responsible.

Someone decided that what we needed, whether we wanted it or not, was a multi-cultural society, where each culture was to be considered as valid as our established indigenous culture.

Well done! A triumph!

[SWv2]

would rather he was a) sold in January, or b) signed up for another three years?

Sold in January though I am unsure if I am a Sanchez basher as you refer to.

Ftr I wanted him sold from the beginning of last summer, a stance which many disagreed with at the time, perhaps naive in the belief that he may stay.

[Monty92]

LEAVING ASIDE the root cause for now, what would be your solution to stop rape. Because, lets face it, what matters here is stopping children being raped, not articulating our own ideas over what should and shouldn't be said or thought.

I would probably start by discouraging public officials from abandoning thousands of girls to the depredations of Muslim rape gangs, inspired and motivated by Islamic teachings on the treatment of infidel women, for fear of being called "racist" and "Islamophobic".

Seems like a decent place to start, no?

[Burney]

I think it's possible that we already do an adequate amount to help them integrate, what with them having all the freedoms to follow their own paths in life that they would be denied in their home country.

I also treat the suggestion with disdain, since it is clearly intended as a fudge designed to divert attention away from the true root causes that dare not speak their name.

Well the word 'integrate' is pretty loaded, isn't it? After all, attempting to impose our cultural norms or mores on immigrant communities has long been anathema as far as the advocates of multiculturalism are concerned.

[Peter]

I would probably start by discouraging public officials from abandoning thousands of girls to the depredations of Muslim rape gangs, inspired and motivated by Islamic teachings on the treatment of infidel women, for fear of being called "racist" and "Islamophobic".

Seems like a decent place to start, no?

Sounds like a lot of fun but I am not sure I understand what the actual action is.

[Monty92]

Well the word 'integrate' is pretty loaded, isn't it? After all, attempting to impose our cultural norms or mores on immigrant communities has long been anathema as far as the advocates of multiculturalism are concerned.

Yes, but we could at least create an environment in which they do not feel persecuted. Because we've seen what happens when we don't . A man can only take reading so many bigoted Daily Mail headlines before he's inclined to lash out at someone - and if that someone happens to be an underage girl and lashing out involves sticking his ***** in them and calling them "white trash" then I for one feel that the onus is on us to do something about it.

[Peter]

Well the word 'integrate' is pretty loaded, isn't it? After all, attempting to impose our cultural norms or mores on immigrant communities has long been anathema as far as the advocates of multiculturalism are concerned.

It is rather difficult to impose values on someone, isnt it? Is that not one of the major issues with the whole multicultural debate, the PC agenda, the 'conspiracy of silence' over Brexit?

The issue is more 'these are our values, these are our customs, these are our laws- **** with them at your peril and expect to face the full consequences'.

I understand that you and Monty will say that the reluctance of officials to tackle these breaches is rooted in the fear of being branded racist/islamophobic/a bad person and that we need to tackle that first. I agree, but this is where you tackle that reluctance- in upholding the law.

[Monty92]

Sounds like a lot of fun but I am not sure I understand what the actual action is.

How do you ever get someone to change their actions? You persuade them to do so. In the case of public officials engaging in a systematic cover up of child rapes, I would encourage them to consider whether their fear of being called "racist" and "Islamophobic" morally justifies them engaging in such a cover up.

Of course, I am relatively powerless, but the problem is that even those who do have the potential to change attitudes are silenced as well.

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

I think I would be more kindly disposed to these moslem chaps if they desisted from wearing their pyjamas during the daytime. Difficult to trust a chap that spends the whole day in his nightwear.

Furthermore my wife says that men wearing sandals all the time usually have no intention of doing any work.

[Sir C]

I think I would be more kindly disposed to these moslem chaps if they desisted from wearing their pyjamas during the daytime. Difficult to trust a chap that spends the whole day in his nightwear.

Furthermore my wife says that men wearing sandals all the time usually have no intention of doing any work.

You monstrous racist! A man's basic human rights to wear pyjamas and sandals and rape children are what we fought Hitler for.

[Burney]

It is rather difficult to impose values on someone, isnt it? Is that not one of the major issues with the whole multicultural debate, the PC agenda, the 'conspiracy of silence' over Brexit?

The issue is more 'these are our values, these are our customs, these are our laws- **** with them at your peril and expect to face the full consequences'.

I understand that you and Monty will say that the reluctance of officials to tackle these breaches is rooted in the fear of being branded racist/islamophobic/a bad person and that we need to tackle that first. I agree, but this is where you tackle that reluctance- in upholding the law.

I wholly concur, but would take issue with your distinction between the law and our culture. Our law is to a large extent a manifestation of our culture and there is little doubt that there has been and remains a politically-led reluctance to uphold it where Islamic communities are concerned. This reluctance is what has allowed things like the rape gangs and FGM to flourish. Our authorities - be it national government, the judiciary, police, education bodies or local government - have deliberately prioritised 'sensitivity' towards one ethno-religious group above the upholding of the law. In doing so, they have abandoned huge numbers of victims and in fact served to heighten ethnic tensions across the board. This policy - and there can be little doubt it has amounted to a policy - has been a disgraceful example of identity politics being allowed to trump justice, decency and the duty of a state to protect its citizens.

[Rich]

Well it's gonna be piss-all in Jan, isn't it. £40m max?

Won't even get £20million for him. The only hope is that other clubs know he'll go to City in the summer if they don't act now and offer us silly money to get him in Jan. But then if it's true that he only has eyes for Pep then he'd just turn them down and get £400k+ per week from August.

[Rich]

At this point sold. I think he is tremendous player but I think he is causing disruption. It's hard to go back from that.

I would drop him and play Ramsey and Wilshere in the same team. Or bring Iwobi in for him.

Love that JW10 told him to f**k off to his face. Wd Jack.

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

You monstrous racist! A man's basic human rights to wear pyjamas and sandals and rape children are what we fought Hitler for.

And you are nothing less than a cultural fascist. Don't think no-one will notice your quite deliberate omission of a man's right, duty even, to mutilate his daughter's genitals.

[SWv2]

You monstrous racist! A man's basic human rights to wear pyjamas and sandals and rape children are what we fought Hitler for.

Though individually both pyjamas and sandals are probably acceptable.

[SWv2]

I would drop him and play Ramsey and Wilshere in the same team. Or bring Iwobi in for him.

Love that JW10 told him to f**k off to his face. Wd Jack.

Told who to fúck off, the Chilean?

I expect such verbal exchanges are normal in such a competitive and male environment.

[Rich]

Told who to fúck off, the Chilean?

I expect such verbal exchanges are normal in such a competitive and male environment.

Yes - during training. Also had a full on argument with him in the middle of the pitch in the Southampton game. Shame that more players at the club wouldn’t tell him what a **** he really is.

[Peter]

I wholly concur, but would take issue with your distinction between the law and our culture. Our law is to a large extent a manifestation of our culture and there is little doubt that there has been and remains a politically-led reluctance to uphold it where Islamic communities are concerned. This reluctance is what has allowed things like the rape gangs and FGM to flourish. Our authorities - be it national government, the judiciary, police, education bodies or local government - have deliberately prioritised 'sensitivity' towards one ethno-religious group above the upholding of the law. In doing so, they have abandoned huge numbers of victims and in fact served to heighten ethnic tensions across the board. This policy - and there can be little doubt it has amounted to a policy - has been a disgraceful example of identity politics being allowed to trump justice, decency and the duty of a state to protect its citizens.

The law is the law. Culture is a catch all term that can be used t define pretty anything that isnt written down. One may flow from the other (or may not) but without question there is a distinction to be made between the two.

I am happy for people to come to our country and be free to respect their own traditions, their own religion, their own customs. THis cant apply to some and not to the others.

I am not happy for people to come to our country and persistently break the law or cause public nuisance. I am not happy for them to come here and demand that we change to suit them. I am not happy for them to be treated differently in the eyes of the law, whether this is preferential treatment, political cowardice (cover ups) or harsher penalties.

'Sensitivity, under any guise, should not feature in the justice system. The law and the public interest are all that should matter.

[Monty92]

The law is the law. Culture is a catch all term that can be used t define pretty anything that isnt written down. One may flow from the other (or may not) but without question there is a distinction to be made between the two.

I am happy for people to come to our country and be free to respect their own traditions, their own religion, their own customs. THis cant apply to some and not to the others.

I am not happy for people to come to our country and persistently break the law or cause public nuisance. I am not happy for them to come here and demand that we change to suit them. I am not happy for them to be treated differently in the eyes of the law, whether this is preferential treatment, political cowardice (cover ups) or harsher penalties.

'Sensitivity, under any guise, should not feature in the justice system. The law and the public interest are all that should matter.

You're happy for people to come to our country and be free to respect their own traditions and religion when those traditions and religion compel them to hate benders, birds and people who draw cartoons of a *****phile prophet, so long as they don't break the law?

[Peter]

You're happy for people to come to our country and be free to respect their own traditions and religion when those traditions and religion compel them to hate benders, birds and people who draw cartoons of a *****phile prophet, so long as they don't break the law?

Do you want expect everyone to like benders? Do you expect everyone to have a modern and enlightened view of women?

As men we are already rapists. Pretty soon we are going to be as bad as the Muslims when it comes to gender fluidity and whatever other *******s gets forced on us.

I am never comfortable with telling people how they should think. I also happen to think it is very un-british.

[Monty92]

Do you want expect everyone to like benders? Do you expect everyone to have a modern and enlightened view of women?

As men we are already rapists. Pretty soon we are going to be as bad as the Muslims when it comes to gender fluidity and whatever other *******s gets forced on us.

I am never comfortable with telling people how they should think. I also happen to think it is very un-british.

Of course we can't do anything about the ****s already here legally - regardless of their ethnicity, race or religion. But we can do something about the ****s who aren't.

[Burney]

The law is the law. Culture is a catch all term that can be used t define pretty anything that isnt written down. One may flow from the other (or may not) but without question there is a distinction to be made between the two.

I am happy for people to come to our country and be free to respect their own traditions, their own religion, their own customs. THis cant apply to some and not to the others.

I am not happy for people to come to our country and persistently break the law or cause public nuisance. I am not happy for them to come here and demand that we change to suit them. I am not happy for them to be treated differently in the eyes of the law, whether this is preferential treatment, political cowardice (cover ups) or harsher penalties.

'Sensitivity, under any guise, should not feature in the justice system. The law and the public interest are all that should matter.

The problem is that the second issue stems directly from your attitude to the first. Blind eyes have been turned precisely because people like you think it’s terribly important for immigrants to follow their own cultural path. That attitude has infected officialdom to a point now I that the idea of acting in an official capacity against Muslims now paralyses the authorities with fear.

[Peter]

Of course we can't do anything about the ****s already here legally - regardless of their ethnicity, race or religion. But we can do something about the ****s who aren't.

Errr.... yeah, I suppose.

[Peter]

The problem is that the second issue stems directly from your attitude to the first. Blind eyes have been turned precisely because people like you think it’s terribly important for immigrants to follow their own cultural path. That attitude has infected officialdom to a point now I that the idea of acting in an official capacity against Muslims now paralyses the authorities with fear.

People like me dont accept that as an excuse. Its pathetic.

[Burney]

People like me dont accept that as an excuse. Its pathetic.

The average Guardian reader is the first to froth at the mouth in discussions of Trojan Horse schools or Prevent-style anti-terrorism measures - and that is the sort of pressure that paralyses authorities into inaction across the board.

[Peter]

The average Guardian reader is the first to froth at the mouth in discussions of Trojan Horse schools or Prevent-style anti-terrorism measures - and that is the sort of pressure that paralyses authorities into inaction across the board.

Well firstly I resent being lumped in with Guardian readers.

Secondly, Prevent is total and utter *******s and precisely the sort of lip service that facilitates the inaction that angers you. It is worthless activity.

[Monty92]

Well firstly I resent being lumped in with Guardian readers.

Secondly, Prevent is total and utter *******s and precisely the sort of lip service that facilitates the inaction that angers you. It is worthless activity.

But in the milieu of the education system, I don't think there's any viable alternative to a soft-touch programme like Prevent.

[Peter]

But in the milieu of the education system, I don't think there's any viable alternative to a soft-touch programme like Prevent.

Agreed.. but it is still ****. I passed the course, only just.

I failed the online course on unconscious bias and had to have an interview with HR. :)

[Monty92]

Agreed.. but it is still ****. I passed the course, only just.

I failed the online course on unconscious bias and had to have an interview with HR. :)

I was thinking about unconscious bias the other day. I can clearly point to the factor in my life that made me unconsciously biased against ethnic minorities and that was going to a school with loads of the human detritus. So much for the benefits of exposing children to diversity.

[Peter]

I was thinking about unconscious bias the other day. I can clearly point to the factor in my life that made me unconsciously biased against ethnic minorities and that was going to a school with loads of the human detritus. So much for the benefits of exposing children to diversity.

And with me it had precisely the opposite effect. Maybe you are just you and I am me, and the rest is just a hill of beans.....

[Monty92]

And with me it had precisely the opposite effect. Maybe you are just you and I am me, and the rest is just a hill of beans.....

But by your own admission you went to a very good school that needed entrance exams. I suspect the ethnics you mixed with were of a higher standard than the ones I mixed with (i.e. middle class and/or with pushy, aspirational parents). And that may be why you came away feeling all warm and fuzzy about them and why I never wanted to see one ever again.

[Peter]

But by your own admission you went to a very good school that needed entrance exams. I suspect the ethnics you mixed with were of a higher standard than the ones I mixed with (i.e. middle class and/or with pushy, aspirational parents). And that may be why you came away feeling all warm and fuzzy about them and why I never wanted to see one ever again.

I was thinking more of a primary school. As you say, I went to a very good secondary school- there were relatively few ethnic minorities there.......a few asians dotted about.

[Monty92]

I was thinking more of a primary school. As you say, I went to a very good secondary school- there were relatively few ethnic minorities there.......a few asians dotted about.

Oh I had no problems with them at primary school. But by secondary school the chips on their shoulders were firmly in place.

My best friend at primary was an Indian kid actually. My grandma didn't like me going round to his house because "they eat off the floor".

[Peter]

Oh I had no problems with them at primary school. But by secondary school the chips on their shoulders were firmly in place.

My best friend at primary was an Indian kid actually. My grandma didn't like me going round to his house because "they eat off the floor".

I think we are starting to get to the root of your issues here :)

[Monty92]

I think we are starting to get to the root of your issues here :)

No, no. I never had any truck with my grandma's unreconstructed views. She was a lot of a ****, frankly.

Manish, on the other hand, was a mensch. One day we were rough-housing when he jumped off a school cupboard and landed squarely on my bóllocks. I was furious, but that afternoon after school he turned up at my front door with a bar of Turkish Delight by way of an apology and asked if I'd still be his best friend.

Great bunch of lads, the Indians.

[Tony C]

Sell him now before he gets more overweight imo

New girlfriend to cuddle with rather than walking the dogs, pushing 30 so weight sticking on more than usual and can’t do the cardio he use too.

Disciplined chap but only a matter of time before he discovers Tiramisu and its all downhill imo

[Peter]

No, no. I never had any truck with my grandma's unreconstructed views. She was a lot of a ****, frankly.

Manish, on the other hand, was a mensch. One day we were rough-housing when he jumped off a school cupboard and landed squarely on my bóllocks. I was furious, but that afternoon after school he turned up at my front door with a bar of Turkish Delight by way of an apology and asked if I'd still be his best friend.

Great bunch of lads, the Indians.

I assume you took the Turkish Delight and then kicked his ****ing head in.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

I assume you took the Turkish Delight and then kicked his ****ing head in.

Anyone who gives Turkish Delight as a gift deserves a kicking. It is a pile of cund

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Yes
Turkish Delight IS a pile of cund

[SWv2]

Anyone who gives Turkish Delight as a gift deserves a kicking. It is a pile of cund

The real stuff is very nice, the old purple stuff in a packet less so. I expect given the era we are dealing with here Monty’s boyfriend gave him the latter.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Or a finger of Fudge