Ostersunds....swedes

[Tony C]

...............

[Tony C]

We were 1 draw away from getting Marseille

[Tony C]

Leipzig vs Napoli the tie of the round

Lyon vs Villarreal next

Atletico get Copenhagen and Milan get Ludogarets.

Fair enough....

[Pat Vegas]

I would have preferred a different opponent perhaps.

playing a 2nd squard may be dangerous to underestimate them.

Then again 1st team do the same.

[Tony C]

They seem like a nice bunch...more on Ostersunds


https://youtu.be/QStgFib_HdY

[Tony C]

Looool they have an Annual Club & Town Production where the first team have to a performance on stage o:

[Sir C]

Looool they have an Annual Club & Town Production where the first team have to a performance on stage o:

This year's was all about refugees. :-(

[Burney]

This year's was all about refugees. :-(

Fùcking Swedes. :rolleyes:

I increasingly feel they deserve everything they get.

[Luis Anaconda]

Fùcking Swedes. :rolleyes:

I increasingly feel they deserve everything they get.

A wonderful society you mean? Or are you just channeling the tedious, inaccurate Daily Mail side of things?

[Burney]

A wonderful society you mean? Or are you just channeling the tedious, inaccurate Daily Mail side of things?

Ask bgm about some of the impacts of unchecked immigration of ‘refugees’ into Sweden and the consequent mendacious activities of the political and media classes, la. He actually lives there. :shrug:

[Luis Anaconda]

Ask bgm about some of the impacts of unchecked immigration of ‘refugees’ into Sweden and the consequent mendacious activities of the political and media classes, la. He actually lives there. :shrug:

Yes - and he moans constantly about stuff he has heard. Note that none of the things he mentions actually effect him directly - he just reports the equivalent of the Daily Mail scaremongering. I love how you patronisingly think that my only source of information on life in Sweden could be bgm, by the way, I have very many friends throughout the country that will tell you the dystopian hell that that certain outlets would like you to believe is quite frankly a crock of ****

[Burney]

Yes - and he moans constantly about stuff he has heard. Note that none of the things he mentions actually effect him directly - he just reports the equivalent of the Daily Mail scaremongering. I love how you patronisingly think that my only source of information on life in Sweden could be bgm, by the way, I have very many friends throughout the country that will tell you the dystopian hell that that certain outlets would like you to believe is quite frankly a crock of ****

You realise, of course, that your chums saying everything’s fine are the equivalent of Highgate or Richmond residents telling people who live in Bradford, Rotherham or Tower Hamlets to stop moaning because there’s nothing to worry about - and if they disagree, they’re racist?

Also, I’m curious about just when you will consider bgm qualifies to speak? When a ‘refugee’ steals from him or rapes his other half? What degree of suffering does he have to endure before you will consider his concerns valid?

[Luis Anaconda]

You realise, of course, that your chums saying everything’s fine are the equivalent of Highgate or Richmond residents telling people who live in Bradford, Rotherham or Tower Hamlets to stop moaning because there’s nothing to worry about - and if they disagree, they’re racist?

Also, I’m curious about just when you will consider bgm qualifies to speak? When a ‘refugee’ steals from him or rapes his other half? What degree of suffering does he have to endure before you will consider his concerns valid?
You know where my friends live and what they do, you? What wonderful vantage point you manage to gain from your high horse, b


I don't discount what bgm says, I put it into context and place it with other information. Something you are shockingly unable to do

[Billy Goat Sverige]

...............

About a two hour drive from me. Still quite cold that time of year. Could be anything from 0’C to -20’C. Quite close to Åre, the best ski resort we have. Make a long weekend of it and go skiing imo.

[Burney]

You know where my friends live and what they do, you? What wonderful vantage point you manage to gain from your high horse, b


I don't discount what bgm says, I put it into context and place it with other information. Something you are shockingly unable to do

No, but I take into account your views and status and assume that (as with most people) they are largely reflected in your friendship group. Not an unreasonable assumption, I think. I also take into account the fact that the demonstrably wilful refusal of the average left-leaning Euro-liberal such as yourself to acknowledge the disaster that unchecked immigration of young, male, muslim migrants has been is as much an intrinsic part of this story as the migrants themselves. So I factor in your bias and the likely bias of your friends and do put these things in context - just not a context you particularly like.

[Luis Anaconda]

No, but I take into account your views and status and assume that (as with most people) they are largely reflected in your friendship group. Not an unreasonable assumption, I think. I also take into account the fact that the demonstrably wilful refusal of the average left-leaning Euro-liberal such as yourself to acknowledge the disaster that unchecked immigration of young, male, muslim migrants has been is as much an intrinsic part of this story as the migrants themselves. So I factor in your bias and the likely bias of your friends and do put these things in context - just not a context you particularly like.

:hehe: "here are my prejudices, I will see everything through my prejudices". SAD, b

[Burney]

:hehe: "here are my prejudices, I will see everything through my prejudices". SAD, b

No more or less than you see everything through yours. :shrug:

[Luis Anaconda]

No more or less than you see everything through yours. :shrug:

Show me where I have been arrogant enough to suggest that you only know - and listen to - people of only one political persuasion and you might have a point. Particularly on this issue when you bought up the views of one bloke who has posted some stuff on the internet to back up your point and then disparaged the views of people I actual have known for years and, sorry, don't fit your cliched characterisation of them

[Burney]

Show me where I have been arrogant enough to suggest that you only know - and listen to - people of only one political persuasion and you might have a point. Particularly on this issue when you bought up the views of one bloke who has posted some stuff on the internet to back up your point and then disparaged the views of people I actual have known for years and, sorry, don't fit your cliched characterisation of them

Can you really not see how monstrously arrogant of your dismissal of bgm's inconvenient views is? :shrug:

[Luis Anaconda]

Can you really not see how monstrously arrogant of your dismissal of bgm's inconvenient views is? :shrug:

Let us compare:
"I don't discount what bgm says, I put it into context and place it with other information". Not a dismissal of his views, I would say

Can you not see how monstrously arrogant your presumption of the people I know, their social status, what they do, how long they have lived there and your complete dismissal of their views? You say BGM's views carry weight as he lives in the country but have previously dismissed my views on the migrant situation in Germany as irrelevant as I "probably don't live in an area that has those sort of problems", a comment made with no knowledge of where I live here or more importantly the area I work - or the people I know here or the experiences I, or they have had.

In short, don't call people arrogant when there are countless examples of your own spectacular arrogance that can easily be thrown back at you. Just in this thread alone

I still love you as a poster, though, b :moon:

I am going to the pub to drink beer and eat pork - because I still can

[Burney]

Let us compare:
"I don't discount what bgm says, I put it into context and place it with other information". Not a dismissal of his views, I would say

Can you not see how monstrously arrogant your presumption of the people I know, their social status, what they do, how long they have lived there and your complete dismissal of their views? You say BGM's views carry weight as he lives in the country but have previously dismissed my views on the migrant situation in Germany as irrelevant as I "probably don't live in an area that has those sort of problems", a comment made with no knowledge of where I live here or more importantly the area I work - or the people I know here or the experiences I, or they have had.

In short, don't call people arrogant when there are countless examples of your own spectacular arrogance that can easily be thrown back at you. Just in this thread alone

I still love you as a poster, though, b :moon:

I am going to the pub to drink beer and eat pork - because I still can

You were the one who made the first accusaiton of arrogance, not me. I made assumptions about your friends' backgrounds and made it clear that I was making assumptions based on certain likelihoods. If I'm wholly wrong and your friends hold none of the types of view or socio-economic statuses I suggest, but are instead downtown Malmo-dwelling members of the white working class, I apologise.

And you put bgm's comments in a 'context' of your own choosing that just so happened to coincide with your prejudices. Let's neither of us pretend that we are disinterested or dispassionate. We're plainly not.

Enjoy your evening. :-)

[Peter]

You realise, of course, that your chums saying everything’s fine are the equivalent of Highgate or Richmond residents telling people who live in Bradford, Rotherham or Tower Hamlets to stop moaning because there’s nothing to worry about - and if they disagree, they’re racist?

Also, I’m curious about just when you will consider bgm qualifies to speak? When a ‘refugee’ steals from him or rapes his other half? What degree of suffering does he have to endure before you will consider his concerns valid?


I like you, b- which is reading rants like this is so crushingly disappointing. I secretly hope that one day you are going to admit it was all a joke.

Leaving aside our prejudices, it is patently hysterical and the other end of the spectrum from the laughable nonsense you like to point out in the Guardian. You are not prone to this on any other topic. What gives?

[Burney]

I like you, b- which is reading rants like this is so crushingly disappointing. I secretly hope that one day you are going to admit it was all a joke.

Leaving aside our prejudices, it is patently hysterical and the other end of the spectrum from the laughable nonsense you like to point out in the Guardian. You are not prone to this on any other topic. What gives?

I sincerely believe that as a society - hell, as a civilisation - we are skipping gaily towards utter catastrophe and I despair at the complacency and unthinking complicity of otherwise decent people who think that denying the obvious truth of what is happening represents a morally virtuous position.

[Peter]

I sincerely believe that as a society - hell, as a civilisation - we are skipping gaily towards utter catastrophe and I despair at the complacency and unthinking complicity of otherwise decent people who think that denying the obvious truth of what is happening is a morally virtuous position.

There it is again...hell, catastrophe.... and people call me miserable :)

[Burney]

There it is again...hell, catastrophe.... and people call me miserable :)

We are in the new period of Volkswanderung. Last time that happened it took us 1,400 years to regain what we lost.

[Peter]

We are in the new period of Volkswanderung. Last time that happened it took us 1,400 years to regain what we lost.

Really? Because it feels a lot more like Rivers of Blood to me. And as we know, dear old Enoch was pretty horribly wrong in his forecasts. They ring very true with yours, b.

Some day we will all laugh about this. For now, have a bit more faith in your political system to manage immigration more sensibly in the future. And if it isnt too much of a push, have a little faith in the settling populations. THey majority quickly come to love it here.

[Burney]

Really? Because it feels a lot more like Rivers of Blood to me. And as we know, dear old Enoch was pretty horribly wrong in his forecasts. They ring very true with yours, b.

Some day we will all laugh about this. For now, have a bit more faith in your political system to manage immigration more sensibly in the future. And if it isnt too much of a push, have a little faith in the settling populations. THey majority quickly come to love it here.

Ermmm....Enoch was entirely right, p. Indeed, his predictions didn’t go far enough. If you’d told people in the late 60s that by 2017, the majority of London’s population would be non-indigenous, 40+% would be foreign born, we’d have seen repeated murderous terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists; we’d be seriously worrying about blasphemy again for the first time since the 16th century and the mayor would be a bloke called Sadiq Khan, they’d have laughed at you.

And yet here we are.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Just seen on the news that a few synagogues have been attacked over the weekend. Three refugees arrested in connection with one of the attacks. On Friday 200 Arabs marched in Malmo and chanted anti-Semitic stuff. Today the Swedish PM has come out and said he’s worried about anti-semitism among the immigrant population from the Middle East. Who’d have thought it eh? :rolleyes:

[Burney]

Just seen on the news that a few synagogues have been attacked over the weekend. Three refugees arrested in connection with one of the attacks. On Friday 200 Arabs marched in Malmo and chanted anti-Semitic stuff. Today the Swedish PM has come out and said he’s worried about anti-semitism among the immigrant population from the Middle East. Who’d have thought it eh? :rolleyes:

Jews are the canary in the coalmine, bgm. When they’re scared, you know everyone else is next.

[Peter]

Ermmm....Enoch was entirely right, p. Indeed, his predictions didn’t go far enough. If you’d told people in the late 60s that by 2017, the majority of London’s population would be non-indigenous, 40+% would be foreign born, we’d have seen repeated murderous terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists; we’d be seriously worrying about blasphemy again for the first time since the 16th century and the mayor would be a bloke called Sadiq Khan, they’d have laughed at you.

And yet here we are.

He was utterly wrong and you know it. He was talking about black immigration and you know it. He said there would be great bloodshed (there wasnt), he said numerically their presence would be on a par with the USA (it isnt), he said it would be the total transformation of our entire country (it wasnt) and he said the black man would hold the whip over the white man (surely even you are not going to argue on that point).

He was wrong. He knew it as well. The speech was deliberately provocative and a massive over statement of both the situation and the trend. It was deliberately alarmist.

This is pretty what I am accusing you of.

[Peter]

Jews are the canary in the coalmine, bgm. When they’re scared, you know everyone else is next.

Well, they do have some experience in this regard.

[redgunamo]

Well, they do have some experience in this regard.

Yes, far more than anyone tells you apparently.

Gassing with my father-in-law the other day, he made the point that, in "Germany", suspicion of the Jewish is a long-standing social feature, dating back centuries. It seems that whenever the local chief, or prince, Graf, or whatever, needed cash to pay off his bookie or his bar-bill or have a pop at the next Count down the way, the simplest way would be to be to stir up a fear and hatred of the local Semites, burn down their properties and businesses and houses and recover his money that way, as they were invariably the ones holding his debts.

With no little sense of bitterness and resentment, he explained that they were never taught about this in school; the War, for example, is always explained away as a one-off, unprecedented massive hissy fit.

[Peter]

Yes, far more than anyone tells you apparently.

Gassing with my father-in-law the other day, he made the point that, in "Germany", suspicion of the Jewish is a long-standing social feature, dating back centuries. It seems that whenever the local chief, or prince, Graf, or whatever, needed cash to pay off his bookie or his bar-bill or have a pop at the next Count down the way, the simplest way would be to be to stir up a fear and hatred of the local Semites, burn down their properties and businesses and houses and recover his money that way, as they were invariably the ones holding his debts.

With no little sense of bitterness and resentment, he explained that they were never taught about this in school; the War, for example, is always explained away as a one-off, unprecedented massive hissy fit.

Yes, it was part of the whole 'it was all that hitler's fault' which helped to absolve germans from any blame. We needed this in order to heal europe and founde the EU. :p

[redgunamo]

Yes, it was part of the whole 'it was all that hitler's fault' which helped to absolve germans from any blame. We needed this in order to heal europe and founde the EU. :p

Right. The most spoiled people on the planet, imo. (And I'm not just saying that because, in a moment of weakness, I granted my wife a sheaf of credit cards in her own name :-\ ). Actually, despite appearances, Germans are not actually very good with money; they just have an awful lot of it, coupled with enormous potential for making more. And, as such, we need them.

[redgunamo]

No more or less than you see everything through yours. :shrug:

See what I mean; another pissing contest between sundry shades of lefty. Though it's probably a fair point to suggest LA's friends aren't paid up racists :hehe:

[Peter]

See what I mean; another pissing contest between sundry shades of lefty. Though it's probably a fair point to suggest LA's friends aren't paid up racists :hehe:

I liked the fact that they argued over who had insulted who, and who had slighted bgm the most but neither discussed burney's suggestion that all immigrants are savages :)

Modern political discourse ....

[Burney]

He was utterly wrong and you know it. He was talking about black immigration and you know it. He said there would be great bloodshed (there wasnt), he said numerically their presence would be on a par with the USA (it isnt), he said it would be the total transformation of our entire country (it wasnt) and he said the black man would hold the whip over the white man (surely even you are not going to argue on that point).

He was wrong. He knew it as well. The speech was deliberately provocative and a massive over statement of both the situation and the trend. It was deliberately alarmist.

This is pretty what I am accusing you of.

I'll give you the fact he was talking about black immigration from the West Indies, but on the general principle of mass immigration into this country and the overall trend, he was spot on. Bloodshed, the increasing normalisation of alien culture, colonisation by stealth (first locally and increasingly nationally) and population replacement - it's all happening.

The trend for non-white, non-European immigration into this country is relentlessly upwards and the birthrates of those non-white, non-European immigrants massively exceeds that of the native population. How else do you imagine that trend can end but in the scenario Powell described?

It doesn't suit you to acknowledge the seismic changes that are taking place, but that doesn't make them any less real.

[redgunamo]

I liked the fact that they argued over who had insulted who, and who had slighted bgm the most but neither discussed burney's suggestion that all immigrants are savages :)

Modern political discourse ....

It happens every, single time.

Maybe it is as well that way; obviously all immigrants are savages but really they just want to be left alone :-)

[Burney]

I liked the fact that they argued over who had insulted who, and who had slighted bgm the most but neither discussed burney's suggestion that all immigrants are savages :)

Modern political discourse ....

Please show me where I suggested that all immigrants are savages, p.

[Peter]

I'll give you the fact he was talking about black immigration from the West Indies, but on the general principle of mass immigration into this country and the overall trend, he was spot on. Bloodshed, the increasing normalisation of alien culture, colonisation by stealth (first locally and increasingly nationally) and population replacement - it's all happening.

The trend for non-white, non-European immigration into this country is relentlessly upwards and the birthrates of those non-white, non-European immigrants massively exceeds that of the native population. How else do you imagine that trend can end but in the scenario Powell described?

It doesn't suit you to acknowledge the seismic changes that are taking place, but that doesn't make them any less real.

In other words, it hasn't happened yet, and it isnt what he was talking about, but he was still right in a sense....if we had encountered aliens from another planet and not taken a thought enough stance on earth's borders, and some of those aliens had settled in Wolverhampton and signed on, he would have been right?

It does actually 'suit me' to be concerned by things like this. It suits me to discuss it. IT doesnt suit me to vilify all of those immigrants, call them savages and attack the cornerstones of their culture, religion, beliefs, procreation.....


You dont want constant and considerable immigration- that is a perfectly valid view. The rest is worrying and I want to know where it comes from.

[Peter]

Please show me where I suggested that all immigrants are savages, p.

In yesterday's thread that monty started you referred to them as a group of backward savages with a medieval belief system and made a reference to Roy Chubby Brown :)

[Sir C]

It happens every, single time.

Maybe it is as well that way; obviously all immigrants are savages but really they just want to be left alone :-)

Many immigrants are savages, of course; consider the number of Irish who have poured into this country, bringing their medieval attitudes and their p[enchant for breeding like rodents. However, many of the children of these backward peasants have adapted to civilised culture and a few of them now even lead useful, decent lives. Within 5 or 6 generations they may even begin to breed with native inhabitants of this Great Island Nation and their genetic problems will be watered down by the addition of pure English blood.

Immigrants from other cultures, sadly, have not integrated in this way, which makes it difficult to drive down Commercial St on a Friday afternoon.

[Sir C]

In yesterday's thread that monty started you referred to them as a group of backward savages with a medieval belief system and made a reference to Roy Chubby Brown :)

Oh yes, an entirely unjustified claim, obviously.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-case-per-hour-uk-nhs-circumcision-a7564571.html

[redgunamo]

It does actually 'suit me' to be concerned by things like this. It suits me to discuss it. IT doesnt suit me to vilify all of those immigrants, call them savages and attack the cornerstones of their culture, religion, beliefs, procreation....

I see that actually. "Racism" is actually designed to benefit your sort, rather than actual victims of racism.

[Peter]

Many immigrants are savages, of course; consider the number of Irish who have poured into this country, bringing their medieval attitudes and their p[enchant for breeding like rodents. However, many of the children of these backward peasants have adapted to civilised culture and a few of them now even lead useful, decent lives. Within 5 or 6 generations they may even begin to breed with native inhabitants of this Great Island Nation and their genetic problems will be watered down by the addition of pure English blood.

Immigrants from other cultures, sadly, have not integrated in this way, which makes it difficult to drive down Commercial St on a Friday afternoon.

They certainly have bred with natives. You know what catholic girls are like :)

See, I can do racism as long as it is linked to sexism, my first love :)

[redgunamo]

Oh yes, an entirely unjustified claim, obviously.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-case-per-hour-uk-nhs-circumcision-a7564571.html

Very well then. If we're going to get into female genitalia already, at this time, I'm going to take an early lunch.

[Peter]

I see that actually. "Racism" is actually designed to benefit your sort, rather than actual victims of racism.

Are you calling me a honky?

[Sir C]

They certainly have bred with natives. You know what catholic girls are like :)

See, I can do racism as long as it is linked to sexism, my first love :)

There is nothing racist about suggesting that people who cut off little girls genitals, (and Irish people) are savages. It is a mere statement of fact.

[Peter]

Oh yes, an entirely unjustified claim, obviously.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-case-per-hour-uk-nhs-circumcision-a7564571.html

Too early....

[Peter]

There is nothing racist about suggesting that people who cut off little girls genitals, (and Irish people) are savages. It is a mere statement of fact.

One then wonders why the statement was denied....:eek:

[Burney]

In other words, it hasn't happened yet, and it isnt what he was talking about, but he was still right in a sense....if we had encountered aliens from another planet and not taken a thought enough stance on earth's borders, and some of those aliens had settled in Wolverhampton and signed on, he would have been right?

It does actually 'suit me' to be concerned by things like this. It suits me to discuss it. IT doesnt suit me to vilify all of those immigrants, call them savages and attack the cornerstones of their culture, religion, beliefs, procreation.....


You dont want constant and considerable immigration- that is a perfectly valid view. The rest is worrying and I want to know where it comes from.

Your example is absurd and ignores the salient fact that he was talking about effect that immigration of non-white, non-European people from alien cultures into this country and that remains the major issue. So I repeat that he was right about the trend, but wrong on the specifics. What he couldn't have foreseen was the specific problems that muslim immigration would pose.

I don't vilify all immigrants and neither do I decry them all as savages. My specific problem is with Islam and its increasing encroachment into this country's way of life. I despise Islam as a belief system and the more I find out about it, the more despicable it becomes. It fosters and encourages social and sexual attitudes that are wholly at odds with western intellectual and social progress and if challenged on an intellectual, legal or social level, its adherents invariably respond with threats and actual violence. What is there to like about that?

So am I attacking the cornerstones of their beliefs, culture and religion? Absolutely. I find their culture, beliefs and religion utterly abhorrent - as should anyone who seriously cares about protecting secular western values. What is wrong with attacking a system of man-made beliefs that another person has? If a fascist walked into the room espousing fascism would you hesitate to challenge him out of sensitivity? Of course not. However, adherents of Islam have the race card to play and by playing it, they keep people quiet about their more disgusting attitudes and beliefs (of which there are many). It's been a very effective tactic and has caused many nice, white liberals to turn a blind eye for fear of being called racist.

I consider Islam to be a savage and barbaric creed and it therefore follows that those who espouse its teachings and call themselves adherents of its beliefs (and thus follow the social strictures it demands) are themselves savage and barbaric and therefore unfit for western society.

[Burney]

In yesterday's thread that monty started you referred to them as a group of backward savages with a medieval belief system and made a reference to Roy Chubby Brown :)

I did not refer to all immigrants, though, did I? That was just a lie from you.

However, I do stand by the fact that we have imported large numbers or savages into this country, but by no means was I describing all immigrants as savages.

[Burney]

One then wonders why the statement was denied....:eek:

It wasn't. I denied the statement you had me making, but absolutely stand by the one I actually made.

[Burney]

Many immigrants are savages, of course; consider the number of Irish who have poured into this country, bringing their medieval attitudes and their p[enchant for breeding like rodents. However, many of the children of these backward peasants have adapted to civilised culture and a few of them now even lead useful, decent lives. Within 5 or 6 generations they may even begin to breed with native inhabitants of this Great Island Nation and their genetic problems will be watered down by the addition of pure English blood.

Immigrants from other cultures, sadly, have not integrated in this way, which makes it difficult to drive down Commercial St on a Friday afternoon.

The nonsense of it is, of course, that the attitude of Europeans that if you invite people from all over the world into Europe, they will immediately seek to become Europeans rather than simply transplanting their own culture to a place with social security payments, decent roads and hospitals is essentially absurd - not to mention monstrously arrogant.

If I go and live in China or India, will I become Chinese or Indian? Of course not. Indeed, the suggestion that I might would be met by many on the left with howls of outrage and accusations of neo-colonialism. And yet these same people will straight-fadedly tell you that someone from Somalia or Afghanistan will come here and become a good little European. The thing is outrageous nonsense.

[Peter]

I did not refer to all immigrants, though, did I? That was just a lie from you.

However, I do stand by the fact that we have imported large numbers or savages into this country, but by no means was I describing all immigrants as savages.


It wasnt a lie. You werent very clear. But thanks for clearing it up- so it is just the muslim immigrants that are savages, yes? And that is all of them I assume?

I wouldn't want to lie.....

[Peter]

Your example is absurd and ignores the salient fact that he was talking about effect that immigration of non-white, non-European people from alien cultures into this country and that remains the major issue. So I repeat that he was right about the trend, but wrong on the specifics. What he couldn't have foreseen was the specific problems that muslim immigration would pose.

I don't vilify all immigrants and neither do I decry them all as savages. My specific problem is with Islam and its increasing encroachment into this country's way of life. I despise Islam as a belief system and the more I find out about it, the more despicable it becomes. It fosters and encourages social and sexual attitudes that are wholly at odds with western intellectual and social progress and if challenged on an intellectual, legal or social level, its adherents invariably respond with threats and actual violence. What is there to like about that?

So am I attacking the cornerstones of their beliefs, culture and religion? Absolutely. I find their culture, beliefs and religion utterly abhorrent - as should anyone who seriously cares about protecting secular western values. What is wrong with attacking a system of man-made beliefs that another person has? If a fascist walked into the room espousing fascism would you hesitate to challenge him out of sensitivity? Of course not. However, adherents of Islam have the race card to play and by playing it, they keep people quiet about their more disgusting attitudes and beliefs (of which there are many). It's been a very effective tactic and has caused many nice, white liberals to turn a blind eye for fear of being called racist.

I consider Islam to be a savage and barbaric creed and it therefore follows that those who espouse its teachings and call themselves adherents of its beliefs (and thus follow the social strictures it demands) are themselves savage and barbaric and therefore unfit for western society.

Problem is b.....there are plenty of us on here who seem to hold social and sexual attitudes that are wholly at odds with western intellectual and social progress, myself included.

What happens when that 'progress' leaves us old gigs behind, merrily thinking that having a cock makes you a chap?

What happens when everyone else in the west happily accepts Islam? Is it not YOU that is out of step with 'our' culture and society?

[Burney]

It wasnt a lie. You werent very clear. But thanks for clearing it up- so it is just the muslim immigrants that are savages, yes? And that is all of them I assume?

I wouldn't want to lie.....

Anyone who describes themselves as a devotee of a savage doctrine is, by definition, a savage, yes. You can’t separate the individual from what they profess to believe, I’m afraid.

[Peter]

Anyone who describes themselves as a devotee of a savage doctrine is, by definition, a savage, yes. You can’t separate the individual from what they profess to believe, I’m afraid.

Apart from my Turkish mates, of course. I thought we agreed last time that they were different? THe exception to your rule.

[Burney]

Problem is b.....there are plenty of us on here who seem to hold social and sexual attitudes that are wholly at odds with western intellectual and social progress, myself included.

What happens when that 'progress' leaves us old gigs behind, merrily thinking that having a cock makes you a chap?

What happens when everyone else in the west happily accepts Islam? Is it not YOU that is out of step with 'our' culture and society?

Then it won’t be ‘OUR’ culture, anymore, will it? It will be an alien culture that has been allowed to win because we were too feeble to stand up for sense, rationality and decency.

[Burney]

Apart from my Turkish mates, of course. I thought we agreed last time that they were different? THe exception to your rule.

Turkish immigrants to this country tend to be relatively secular compared to other Muslim groups.

[Peter]

Turkish immigrants to this country tend to be relatively secular compared to other Muslim groups.

You cant separate the individual from what they profess to believe.

Unless they are white.....

[SWv2]

It wasnt a lie. You werent very clear. But thanks for clearing it up- so it is just the muslim immigrants that are savages, yes? And that is all of them I assume?

I wouldn't want to lie.....

Oh yes Pedro, have it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxiWkrhiaok

Savages, you can dress it up
Give it a name and a fancy uniform
And a flag to fly to hide behind
Can you not see the truth that's on the ground

You have no love
It has all gone cold on you
You never have, so you take it out on
Those whose love is growing
That's what you hate most, when you're savages

[Burney]

You cant separate the individual from what they profess to believe.

Unless they are white.....

Eh? You've lost me, p. I was expressing the fact that Turks tend not to be as full-on as other varieties of muslim, which makes them rather more acceptable in my book than the chinstrap beard and shalwar kameez bunch.

[Peter]

Eh? You've lost me, p. I was expressing the fact that Turks tend not to be as full-on as other varieties of muslim, which makes them rather more acceptable in my book than the chinstrap beard and shalwar kameez bunch.

Yeah, that was a cheap shot :)

Its just on the one. Hand you cant separate people from their belief but then the Turks tend to be ok. Elsewhere you refer several times to non white immigrasnts....

[Burney]

Yeah, that was a cheap shot :)

Its just on the one. Hand you cant separate people from their belief but then the Turks tend to be ok. Elsewhere you refer several times to non white immigrasnts....

Non-white immigrants are not a problem per se. There have been many successful integrations by non-white peoples to this country. The real issue is culture. We do not insist that those who come to our country adhere to our cultural norms and this to a culture like Islam that seeks to dominate in every sphere where it exists has essentially meant rolling over and allowing norms of behaviour to be established among the muslim community that are wholly at odds with our society.

We need to sort this shït out before it's too late, p.

[redgunamo]

Non-white immigrants are not a problem per se. There have been many successful integrations by non-white peoples to this country. The real issue is culture. We do not insist that those who come to our country adhere to our cultural norms and this to a culture like Islam that seeks to dominate in every sphere where it exists has essentially meant rolling over and allowing norms of behaviour to be established among the muslim community that are wholly at odds with our society.

We need to sort this shït out before it's too late, p.

It's already too late, imo. Unless you and all your sort intend to have three or four kids each between now and your dirt-nap time. And even then it would be too late :-\

[Peter]

Non-white immigrants are not a problem per se. There have been many successful integrations by non-white peoples to this country. The real issue is culture. We do not insist that those who come to our country adhere to our cultural norms and this to a culture like Islam that seeks to dominate in every sphere where it exists has essentially meant rolling over and allowing norms of behaviour to be established among the muslim community that are wholly at odds with our society.

We need to sort this shït out before it's too late, p.

Right, but the point is that in some circumstances it seems you can separate, to some degree, the person from the belief. And it seems to be when they are white.

Lets not beat about the bush, I am basically saying you are a bit racist :)

I am probably wrong, to be honest.

And it does sound like it is too late.

[Burney]

Right, but the point is that in some circumstances it seems you can separate, to some degree, the person from the belief. And it seems to be when they are white.

Lets not beat about the bush, I am basically saying you are a bit racist :)

I am probably wrong, to be honest.

And it does sound like it is too late.

To be honest, p, I’m bored of that word. I’ve no idea what it means anymore. Race is an absurd distraction that we in the west have allowed to dominate debate when it doesn’t actually matter a damn.

[Peter]

To be honest, p, I’m bored of that word. I’ve no idea what it means anymore. Race is an absurd distraction that we in the west have allowed to dominate debate when it doesn’t actually matter a damn.

There is some truth in that. Some.....

I sat through a three hour workshop on inclusive assessment today which was openly described by a senior colleague e as 'complete *******s from start to finish'. He was very correct indeed.

[redgunamo]

Then it won’t be ‘OUR’ culture, anymore, will it? It will be an alien culture that has been allowed to win because we were too feeble to stand up for sense, rationality and decency.

State schools, Higher Education for All, the NHS, "Hollywood", social services, Political Correctness, Feminism; not to mention Pokemon Go! and Twitter and DINKYs; all alien cultures that have "been allowed to win because we were too feeble to stand up for sense, rationality and decency.

Are we merely picking on Islam because we are not "responsible" for it, or anyway, we can claim to be not responsible for it? If so, protest is pointless as it completely misses the principle problem, namely "us" :shrug:

[redgunamo]

There is some truth in that. Some.....

I sat through a three hour workshop on inclusive assessment today which was openly described by a senior colleague e as 'complete *******s from start to finish'. He was very correct indeed.

Now, now. People running such workshops have a right to earn a living too.

[redgunamo]

To be honest, p, I’m bored of that word. I’ve no idea what it means anymore. Race is an absurd distraction that we in the west have allowed to dominate debate when it doesn’t actually matter a damn.

It's merely one more damn thing, imo, and has had to accept its place alongside a growing number of other special interests and concerns. Yes; absurd distractions all.

[Burney]

A wonderful society you mean? Or are you just channeling the tedious, inaccurate Daily Mail side of things?

Yeah...’wonderful’.

This from that well-known right-wing hate sheet the...errr... New York Times

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/opinion/sweden-antisemitism-jews.html