Kronke has caused a Twitter meltdown by describing the fans as rabid :hehe:

[Rich]

A summary of the points discussed:

- Rabid fans - this is the best/worst thing about them.
- We have been successful recently - FA Cup wins x 3. We listed up there with winners of the PL and CL.
- He wants the club to stay in his family forever.
- Ozil and Alexis will leave, but we will still sign top players.
- Club has to be self-sustaining & so we cannot just throw money at it.

[Peter]

A summary of the points discussed:

- Rabid fans - this is the best/worst thing about them.
- We have been successful recently - FA Cup wins x 3. We listed up there with winners of the PL and CL.
- He wants the club to stay in his family forever.
- Ozil and Alexis will leave, but we will still sign top players.
- Club has to be self-sustaining & so we cannot just throw money at it.

He said he wants Ozil and Alexis to stay. In the interview I read he did not say they were leaving.

[SWv2]

He said he wants Ozil and Alexis to stay. In the interview I read he did not say they were leaving.

Steady now Pedro, the club have to say they still think/believe/hope they will stay else it becomes very difficult to continue to pick them.

If your issue is Dick's inaccurate summation of events then I suspect you are new here?

[Rich]

He said he wants Ozil and Alexis to stay. In the interview I read he did not say they were leaving.

Well, he said that we want to keep them but may not be able to.

[redgunamo]

Steady now Pedro, the club have to say they still think/believe/hope they will stay else it becomes very difficult to continue to pick them.

If your issue is Dick's inaccurate summation of events then I suspect you are new here?

Everyone seems to be being terribly brave about them leaving. Personally, I think it would be something of a catastrophe :shrug:

[barrybueno]

- Club has to be self-sustaining & so we cannot just throw money at it.

He's such an epic ****er :hehe:

[Pat Vegas]

Everyone seems to be being terribly brave about them leaving. Personally, I think it would be something of a catastrophe :shrug:

Sanchez yes, Ozil :shrug:

[Peter]

Steady now Pedro, the club have to say they still think/believe/hope they will stay else it becomes very difficult to continue to pick them.

If your issue is Dick's inaccurate summation of events then I suspect you are new here?


I was just bored and decided to point it out. I like to try and help people to improve rather than castigate them for their failures.

I am just that kind of guy....

[SWv2]

Everyone seems to be being terribly brave about them leaving. Personally, I think it would be something of a catastrophe :shrug:

Have a word with yourself ffs man.

You sound like Monty / a gay. You choose as appropriate.


I think it is possibly a catastrophe from a business sense but I suspect that was not your angle. £60m down and we still have to go shopping, perhaps less if we sell Sanchez in January as I expect we will, couple of bigger fish CL teams may want a bit of him on the cut price.

Footballistically they leave, we replace them. We move on.

[Rich]

Would you care to point out what the problem with a) being Jewish or b) being a heemasex is?

Are you hatespeeching?

[redgunamo]

Have a word with yourself ffs man.

You sound like Monty / a gay. You choose as appropriate.


I think it is possibly a catastrophe from a business sense but I suspect that was not your angle. £60m down and we still have to go shopping, perhaps less if we sell Sanchez in January as I expect we will, couple of bigger fish CL teams may want a bit of him on the cut price.

Footballistically they leave, we replace them. We move on.

No, we're screwed all round; no money, no goals, no assists, no future :-|

[Peter]

No, we're screwed all round; no money, no goals, no future :-|

No change, then ;)

[SWv2]

Would you care to point out what the problem with a) being Jewish or b) being a heemasex is?

Are you hatespeeching?

No hate in my speech Dick.

A mere comparison of character.

[Peter]

No, we're screwed all round; no money, no goals, no assists, no future :-|

I did enjoy the Kroenke's saying that it is easy to do something, far harder to not do something. Very good ;)

[redgunamo]

No change, then ;)

Not really, no :-)

[Pokster]

Would you care to point out what the problem with a) being Jewish or b) being a heemasex is?

Are you hatespeeching?

I put it to you R that it is in fact you hatespeeching, calling all Irish men anti Jewish and anti gay

[Pat Vegas]

No, we're screwed all round; no money, no goals, no assists, no future :-|

Ah so Kroenke is to blame again currently.
It was Wenger a while ago. When will it be Wenger again?

[Rich]

Ah so Kroenke is to blame again currently.
It was Wenger a while ago. When will it be Wenger again?

After our 1-1 draw with Swansea City at the weekend, I suspect.

It's also Gazidiz's fault at the moment. And Sir Chips.

[�ất Xanh Group]

NgoÃ*i yếu tố khan hiếm, chÃ*nh giá trị cảnh quan, khÃ* háº*u vÃ* môi trÆ°á»�ng sống xanh, trong lÃ*nh lÃ* những yếu tố khiến nhÃ* đất cạnh sông luôn có sức hút mạnh mẽ đối vá»›i những khách hÃ*ng có nhu cầu nhÃ* ở thá»±c vÃ* tìm kiếm sá»± khác biệt.

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KẾT N�I �ỒNG BỘ
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[Rich]

NgoÃ*i yếu tố khan hiếm, chÃ*nh giá trị cảnh quan, khÃ* háº*u vÃ* môi trÆ°á»�ng sống xanh, trong lÃ*nh lÃ* những yếu tố khiến nhÃ* đất cạnh sông luôn có sức hút mạnh mẽ đối vá»›i những khách hÃ*ng có nhu cầu nhÃ* ở thá»±c vÃ* tìm kiếm sá»± khác biệt.

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căn há»™ Saigon Riverside City (https://giaodichnha.com/saigon-riverside-city-dat-xanh/) hưởng trá»�n lợi thế mặt tiá»�n sông SÃ*i Gòn, mang phong cách thiết kế của má»™t resort sinh thái ven sông vá»›i gần 100% căn há»™ Ä‘á»�u có hÆ°á»›ng nhìn đẹp vá»� sông SÃ*i Gòn, hồ sinh thái vÃ* hệ thống công viên bên trong dá»± án, tất cả sẽ mang đến cho cÆ° dân những giá trị sống hoÃ*n mỹ vÃ* riêng biệt.

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KẾT N�I �ỒNG BỘ
Saigon Riverside City (https://giaodichnha.com/saigon-riverside-city-dat-xanh/) Sở hữu ba giá trị vÃ*ng “nhất cáº*n thị, nhị cáº*n giang, tam cáº*n lá»™â€�, cùng vá»›i hÃ*ng loạt những tiện nghi, dịch vụ hoÃ*n chỉnh, khép kÃ*n, vá»›i giá bán dá»± kiến chỉ từ 1,28 tá»· đồng/căn há»™ 2 phòng ngủ, ná»™i thất hoÃ*n thiện, Saigon Riverside City được xem lÃ* khu căn há»™ hoÃ*n mỹ, đáp ứng trá»�n vẹn nhu cầu an cÆ°, đầu tÆ° cho tất cả cÆ° dân thÃ*nh phố.

You make a very good point here, A. Thank you.

[redgunamo]

I did enjoy the Kroenke's saying that it is easy to do something, far harder to not do something. Very good ;)

:hehe: Good man, Stan.

[Monty92]

The easiest thing would have been to placate the fleeting, impulsive, toddler-esque demands of our fans rather than do the rational thing and deal with the subsequent flak :shrug:

Cue you telling me that wanting change for a decade isn't impulsive. Cue me rolling my eyes and saying something disproportionately offensive about you. And so on and so forth...



I did enjoy the Kroenke's saying that it is easy to do something, far harder to not do something. Very good ;)

[Ash]

The easiest thing would have been to placate the fleeting, impulsive, toddler-esque demands of our fans rather than do the rational thing and deal with the subsequent flak :shrug:

Cue you telling me that wanting change for a decade isn't impulsive. Cue me rolling my eyes and saying something disproportionately offensive about you. And so on and so forth...

Something about Stan needing a new hobby etc.

[World's End Stella]

The easiest thing would have been to placate the fleeting, impulsive, toddler-esque demands of our fans rather than do the rational thing and deal with the subsequent flak :shrug:

Cue you telling me that wanting change for a decade isn't impulsive. Cue me rolling my eyes and saying something disproportionately offensive about you. And so on and so forth...

I understand your point but in this case I happen to disagree. There is no shortage of criticism but the supporters are hardly in open revolt, the Emirates is still sold out, there is a waiting list for season tickets etc. Wenger will always keep the team pretty competitive and he's incapable of looking at his players objectively so the turnaround in players and the knock on financial cost will always be low.

There is no downside to keeping Wenger beyond knowing that you won't challenge for the PL or CL and Kroenke clearly isn't bothered about that or he wouldn't have given him a 2 year extension.

The difficult thing in this case would have been to take a chance on a new manager, new approach to transfers, new style of play, knowing that it could go wrong but also that we might actually challenge for the PL/CL which is all that the supporters you so easily condemn really want.

[Monty92]

The hardest thing for the board to do was see through the fog of fan disgruntlement and apply logic and reason to the question of whether or not Wenger was still the best man for the job.

You and I can both agree that this decision was informed by a safety-first approach. The point on which we disagree is not based on anything remotely quantitative, but rather our own individual (and entirely legitimate) inclinations.

Which is why so much of what is said about the board is totally ridiculous. The difference between their and your position is negligible.




I understand your point but in this case I happen to disagree. There is no shortage of criticism but the supporters are hardly in open revolt, the Emirates is still sold out, there is a waiting list for season tickets etc. Wenger will always keep the team pretty competitive and he's incapable of looking at his players objectively so the turnaround in players and the knock on financial cost will always be low.

There is no downside to keeping Wenger beyond knowing that you won't challenge for the PL or CL and Kroenke clearly isn't bothered about that or he wouldn't have given him a 2 year extension.

The difficult thing in this case would have been to take a chance on a new manager, new approach to transfers, new style of play, knowing that it could go wrong but also that we might actually challenge for the PL/CL which is all that the supporters you so easily condemn really want.

[redgunamo]

The hardest thing for the board to do was see through the fog of fan disgruntlement and apply logic and reason to the question of whether or not Wenger was still the best man for the job.

You and I can both agree that this decision was informed by a safety-first approach. The point on which we disagree is not based on anything remotely quantitative, but rather our own individual (and entirely legitimate) inclinations.

Which is why so much of what is said about the board is totally ridiculous. The difference between their and your position is negligible.

True. It's not Kroenke's fault that we can't defend.

He's actually proved to be a model owner; keeps quiet and leaves the football to the football people. And we can't really insist that our owners be extremely wealthy and then complain that they are only interested in money, can we.

[Monty92]

On another note, I see that identity politics has even crept into our AGMs. Some old hag with a few shares asked Sir Chips when the board is going to be more “diverse”.

He literally completely ignored her and moved onto the next question :clap:

Anyway, I’d say a board full of people who basically hate each other and - as we are led to believe - were split over whether to keep the manager is, by definition, pretty diverse, no?



True. It's not Kroenke's fault that we can't defend.

He's actually proved to be a model owner; keeps quiet and leaves the football to the football people. And we can't really insist that our owners be extremely wealthy and then complain that they are only interested in money, can we.

[redgunamo]

On another note, I see that identity politics has even crept into our AGMs. Some old hag with a few shares asked Sir Chips when the board is going to be more “diverse”.

He literally completely ignored her and moved onto the next question :clap:

Anyway, I’d say a board full of people who basically hate each other and - as we are led to believe - were split over whether to keep the manager is, by definition, pretty diverse, no?

Sure, but not in a public relations sense, which is all that mattress nowadays apparently.

[Burney]

On another note, I see that identity politics has even crept into our AGMs. Some old hag with a few shares asked Sir Chips when the board is going to be more “diverse”.

He literally completely ignored her and moved onto the next question :clap:

Anyway, I’d say a board full of people who basically hate each other and - as we are led to believe - were split over whether to keep the manager is, by definition, pretty diverse, no?

Well we used to have Old Etonians, an Asian woman and a load of Jews. That was pretty diverse, wasn't it?

[Viva Prat Vegas]

:hehe:

We also had a vicar
Rev F Bone

[Luis Anaconda]

:hehe:

We also had a vicar
Rev F Bone
Probably got broken quite easily

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Mended by putting it in a Bracewell

[Peter]

The easiest thing would have been to placate the fleeting, impulsive, toddler-esque demands of our fans rather than do the rational thing and deal with the subsequent flak :shrug:

Cue you telling me that wanting change for a decade isn't impulsive. Cue me rolling my eyes and saying something disproportionately offensive about you. And so on and so forth...

Nah.... I get their point. I was remarking to Red that it was as close as you can get in real life to a quote from Yes Minister.

In short, I found it amusing and, although to some extent illogical, reasonable.

This does mean you wont get to say unpleasant things to me (at least with any justification) and for that I apologise.

[Rich]

Nah.... I get their point. I was remarking to Red that it was as close as you can get in real life to a quote from Yes Minister.

In short, I found it amusing and, although to some extent illogical, reasonable.

This does mean you wont get to say unpleasant things to me (at least with any justification) and for that I apologise.

My favourite part was Sir Chips saying that we are the most over-achieving club in the PL when you look at points vs transfer spend. While this is true, this and talk of other 'objective metrics' is unlikely to placate the mouth-breathers we have as fans/small shareholders.

[SWv2]

My favourite part was Sir Chips saying that we are the most over-achieving club in the PL when you look at points vs transfer spend. While this is true, this and talk of other 'objective metrics' is unlikely to placate the mouth-breathers we have as fans/small shareholders.

Well done Dick.

[Rich]

Well done Dick.

What's your beef?

[World's End Stella]

The hardest thing for the board to do was see through the fog of fan disgruntlement and apply logic and reason to the question of whether or not Wenger was still the best man for the job.

You and I can both agree that this decision was informed by a safety-first approach. The point on which we disagree is not based on anything remotely quantitative, but rather our own individual (and entirely legitimate) inclinations.

Which is why so much of what is said about the board is totally ridiculous. The difference between their and your position is negligible.

I don't know where to start with that nonsense, so I won't.

You're a creative type, I'm a logical type, let's leave it there.

[World's End Stella]

My favourite part was Sir Chips saying that we are the most over-achieving club in the PL when you look at points vs transfer spend. While this is true, this and talk of other 'objective metrics' is unlikely to placate the mouth-breathers we have as fans/small shareholders.

It also ignores the most important point completely. Which is that the primary complaint isn't the value we get for our money, it's the refusal to spend more money and get more value when more value is so badly needed.

I expect Chip knew this, I'm not convinced you did.

[Rich]

It also ignores the most important point completely. Which is that the primary complaint isn't the value we get for our money, it's the refusal to spend more money and get more value when more value is so badly needed.

I expect Chip knew this, I'm not convinced you did.

So what you are trying to say is spensumfaakkhinmoney?

[Burney]

I don't know where to start with that nonsense, so I won't.

You're a creative type, I'm a logical type, let's leave it there.

Not logical enough to stop shelling out for a product you clearly consider unsatisfactory, though :shrug:

[Monty92]

We are both being entirely logical, as far as I can tell. We are simply hard-wired (and probably socially conditioned) to want slightly different things for slightly different reasons.

You attitude is akin to telling someone they are being illogical for ordering something different to you in a restaurant.




I don't know where to start with that nonsense, so I won't.

You're a creative type, I'm a logical type, let's leave it there.

[World's End Stella]

Not logical enough to stop shelling out for a product you clearly consider unsatisfactory, though :shrug:

I haven't given a penny to Arsenal in years. :shrug:

And if I did, it would be because even if I consider the product unsatisfactory, that wouldn't stop me from enjoying a day out.

Which isn't in any way illogical.

[World's End Stella]

We are both being entirely logical, as far as I can tell. We are simply hard-wired (and probably socially conditioned) to want slightly different things for slightly different reasons.

You attitude is akin to telling someone they are being illogical for ordering something different to you in a restaurant.

The illogical bit was your (long proved) inability to follow the argument through in a logical manner. We disagreed on what it was easier for the board to have done. You somehow morphed the discussion into a point about the board only finding it difficult to be objective and rational, which didn't really follow. It is a valid point, it simply has nothing to do with our different points of view nor why we hold them.

[Monty92]

Your argument was that keeping Wenger was the easiest decision because the stakes were low.

I believe this to be an overly simplistic analysis that disregards how difficult it is to make rational decisions - particularly in the face of pressure.



The illogical bit was your (long proved) inability to follow the argument through in a logical manner. We disagreed on what it was easier for the board to have done. You somehow morphed the discussion into a point about the board only finding it difficult to be objective and rational, which didn't really follow. It is a valid point, it simply has nothing to do with our different points of view nor why we hold them.

[World's End Stella]

Your argument was that keeping Wenger was the easiest decision because the stakes were low.

I believe this to be an overly simplistic analysis that disregards how difficult it is to make rational decisions - particularly in the face of pressure.

So you believe that the rational decision was to keep Wenger. I got that. And I sort of thought you might explain the rationale behind that statement rather than point out that making rational decisions can be difficult in the face of pressure.

Actually, don't bother. I'm bored now. It was a simple disagreement that we were probably aware of prior to your post. And I have no interest in a discussion on the difficulty of making rational decisions under pressure.

I'm more interested in lunch, now.

[Monty92]

The rationale is that, in my view, on balance he’s doing ok and his replacement might do worse (something I know you would concede is entirely possible).

You think he’s not doing ok. We could thrash that one out too, but as I said before the difference between our positions would be negligible.








So you believe that the rational decision was to keep Wenger. I got that. And I sort of thought you might explain the rationale behind that statement rather than point out that making rational decisions can be difficult in the face of pressure.

Actually, don't bother. I'm bored now. It was a simple disagreement that we were probably aware of prior to your post. And I have no interest in a discussion on the difficulty of making rational decisions under pressure.

I'm more interested in lunch, now.

[SWv2]

What's your beef?

A splendid performance from you of looking down your nose at the common fan or supporter of the club. Quite in character.

Mouth breather indeed.

:hehe:

Pat on the head, well done.

[Burney]

A splendid performance from you of looking down your nose at the common fan or supporter of the club. Quite in character.

Mouth breather indeed.

:hehe:

Pat on the head, well done.

To be fair, though, sw, some of them are pretty grotesque.

[World's End Stella]

The rationale is that, in my view, on balance he’s doing ok and his replacement might do worse (something I know you would concede is entirely possible).

You think he’s not doing ok. We could thrash that one out too, but as I said before the difference between our positions would be negligible.

You think he should be kept on and is doing ok, I think he should be sacked and the club has been seriously under performing for at least 6 or 7 years because of his stubbornness and arrogance.

The difference between those positions is hardly negligible. :rolleyes:

We are one of the top 10 richest clubs in the world, we are 5th in our domestic league, we are 1 point ahead of Watford, 2 points ahead of Newcastle and 3 points ahead of Burnley, we are 9 points behind the league leaders after 9 games, using linear extrapolation this would lead to us ending up 38 points behind the league leaders, we have not meaningfully challenged for the PL or CL in almost 10 years.

Explain to me how this is 'OK'. Now, you see, this is the way a logical argument/discussion is conducted.

[Monty92]

Well, we both agree he’s been underperforming. So on that point the difference is only a matter of degree.

You believe the cause of this has been his arrogance and stubbornness. I would counter that both traits are essential in a successful manager and without them we’d very likely be doing even worse.

So I maintain, we are more alligned than you may like to think.




You think he should be kept on and is doing ok, I think he should be sacked and the club has been seriously under performing for at least 6 or 7 years because of his stubbornness and arrogance.

The difference between those positions is hardly negligible. :rolleyes:

We are one of the top 10 richest clubs in the world, we are 5th in our domestic league, we are 1 point ahead of Watford, 2 points ahead of Newcastle and 3 points ahead of Burnley, we are 9 points behind the league leaders after 9 games, using linear extrapolation this would lead to us ending up 38 points behind the league leaders, we have not meaningfully challenged for the PL or CL in almost 10 years.

Explain to me how this is 'OK'. Now, you see, this is the way a logical argument/discussion is conducted.

[Peter]

Well, we both agree he’s been underperforming. So on that point the difference is only a matter of degree.

You believe the cause of this has been his arrogance and stubbornness. I would counter that both traits are essential in a successful manager and without them we’d very likely be doing even worse.

So I maintain, we are more alligned than you may like to think.

Stubbornness is a weapon when you are right, an obstacle when you are wrong.

His problem is he keeps getting it wrong

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Oh very good philosophy Peter
Stolen ?

[Monty92]

I still apply the fine margins principle.

How many clubs of our size would have the chutzpah to claim they *should* have won the league in recent years?

Do you hear Liverpool or Spurs fans saying they gave up a golden chance to win it a couple of years ago?

No. And you should ask yourself why that is.





Stubbornness is a weapon when you are right, an obstacle when you are wrong.

His problem is he keeps getting it wrong

[SWv2]

Oh very good philosophy Peter
Stolen ?

Given that Pedro has form for being incapable of original thought then yes.

[SWv2]

I still apply the fine margins principle.

How many clubs of our size would have the chutzpah to claim they *should* have won the league in recent years?

Do you hear Liverpool or Spurs fans saying they gave up a golden chance to win it a couple of years ago?

No. And you should ask yourself why that is.

I think you will find the answer here is in fact Yes.

They were arguably 90 minutes (less) from being champions and their fans that I know are fully aware of this.

[Monty92]

I said should not could.

Our claims were couched in a sense of entitlement that we knew we were good enough.



I think you will find the answer here is in fact Yes.

They were arguably 90 minutes (less) from being champions and their fans that I know are fully aware of this.

[SWv2]

I said should not could

Yes, and most sane Liverpool supporters know they should have won it that year. They were in pole position as such and utterly fúcked it up. Don't forget how close they came, that one game at Anfield where SG memorably fell over.

Arguably closer than we have come since the good old days.

[World's End Stella]

I said should not could.

Our claims were couched in a sense of entitlement that we knew we were good enough.

Did anyone say we should have won the league? I think people (me anyway) have suggested we should challenge for the league more often.

I refer you back to my comment about your ability to follow a logical argument.

[Monty92]

You don’t think we had the potential to win it two years ago and based on that potential and who eventually won it arguably should have capitalised on that potential?


Did anyone say we should have won the league? I think people (me anyway) have suggested we should challenge for the league more often.

I refer you back to my comment about your ability to follow a logical argument.

[Peter]

Given that Pedro has form for being incapable of original thought then yes.

Tough ****, arse face. All my own work.

So up yours you Weller-loving hunk of junk.

[Peter]

I still apply the fine margins principle.

How many clubs of our size would have the chutzpah to claim they *should* have won the league in recent years?

Do you hear Liverpool or Spurs fans saying they gave up a golden chance to win it a couple of years ago?

No. And you should ask yourself why that is.

The margins are fairly fine, I suppose. I havent claimed we 'should' have won the league but you cant sit there and honestly say that the Leicester years wasnt a MASSIVE missed opportunity. In a season when all the 'big' clubs were ****e they sauntered to the league with 81 points. In previous seasons we have been capable of at least keeping in touch with that sort of total but we completely collapsed. We should have put in a strong challenge that year and we utterly failed.

You also have to accept that we are not getting better and dont look like addressing the difficulties we tend to suffer. He Ozil and Sanchez situation suggests the very strong possibility that next summer is going to be quite bad. Our transfer activity looks suspiciously odd most summers.

I am now at the stage where not even a tiny part of me has any confidence whatsoever that Wenger is capable of doing any better than a distant fourth, or maybe third. Leaving everything else aside, that is enough for me to want to give somebody else a go. I would happpily risk finishing 15th for the possibility of doing better.

In short, I'm bored.

[SWv2]

Tough ****, arse face. All my own work.

So up yours you Weller-loving hunk of junk.

Really, is that what we have become?

[Monty92]

Or, to put it in a way you might not be altogether comfortable with, you’ve had enough of experts.



The margins are fairly fine, I suppose. I havent claimed we 'should' have won the league but you cant sit there and honestly say that the Leicester years wasnt a MASSIVE missed opportunity. In a season when all the 'big' clubs were ****e they sauntered to the league with 81 points. In previous seasons we have been capable of at least keeping in touch with that sort of total but we completely collapsed. We should have put in a strong challenge that year and we utterly failed.

You also have to accept that we are not getting better and dont look like addressing the difficulties we tend to suffer. He Ozil and Sanchez situation suggests the very strong possibility that next summer is going to be quite bad. Our transfer activity looks suspiciously odd most summers.

I am now at the stage where not even a tiny part of me has any confidence whatsoever that Wenger is capable of doing any better than a distant fourth, or maybe third. Leaving everything else aside, that is enough for me to want to give somebody else a go. I would happpily risk finishing 15th for the possibility of doing better.

In short, I'm bored.

[World's End Stella]

The margins are fairly fine, I suppose. I havent claimed we 'should' have won the league but you cant sit there and honestly say that the Leicester years wasnt a MASSIVE missed opportunity. In a season when all the 'big' clubs were ****e they sauntered to the league with 81 points. In previous seasons we have been capable of at least keeping in touch with that sort of total but we completely collapsed. We should have put in a strong challenge that year and we utterly failed.

You also have to accept that we are not getting better and dont look like addressing the difficulties we tend to suffer. He Ozil and Sanchez situation suggests the very strong possibility that next summer is going to be quite bad. Our transfer activity looks suspiciously odd most summers.

I am now at the stage where not even a tiny part of me has any confidence whatsoever that Wenger is capable of doing any better than a distant fourth, or maybe third. Leaving everything else aside, that is enough for me to want to give somebody else a go. I would happpily risk finishing 15th for the possibility of doing better.

In short, I'm bored.

You aren't suggesting that if you want to catch teams that finished ahead of you in the previous season and spent over 100mil+ each over the summer in order to improve their squads, that generating a net transfer profit might not be a good idea?

That would be some serious cutting edge thinking there, Peter old bean. :hehe:

[Peter]

Or, to put it in a way you might not be altogether comfortable with, you’ve had enough of experts.

I dont really know what you mean by that.

I would like us to fail in a different way next year, for the sheer variety of it. I think that says it best.

[Peter]

You aren't suggesting that if you want to catch teams that finished ahead of you in the previous season and spent over 100mil+ each over the summer in order to improve their squads, that generating a net transfer profit might not be a good idea?

That would be some serious cutting edge thinking there, Peter old bean. :hehe:


Specifically, no, I wasnt. We could have spent 200 million in the summer and it would likely have made no difference. I dont even trust him to spend it in the right areas anymore so I dont think money is a solution.

We obviously had some money to spend yet in the 24 hour a day news cycle throughout the summer I dont recall us ever being linked with a midfielder when it is perfectly ****ing obvious that we are crying out for an improvement there.

I just dont trust Wenger anymore, in any aspect. Quite frankly I would rather we didnt give him a load of money to spend.

[Peter]

Really, is that what we have become?

It was a childish response, that I will grant you.

However, you started it.

[Monty92]

Well Spurs made a net profit and they are the golden boys of the premier league. Liverpool spent about £40 million and are even ****ter than us.

The only clubs that have spent **** loads and have something to show for it are the clubs who are either still benefiting from financial doping or are simply much bigger than us.


You aren't suggesting that if you want to catch teams that finished ahead of you in the previous season and spent over 100mil+ each over the summer in order to improve their squads, that generating a net transfer profit might not be a good idea?

That would be some serious cutting edge thinking there, Peter old bean. :hehe:

[World's End Stella]

Well Spurs made a net profit and they are the golden boys of the premier league. Liverpool spent about £40 million and are even ****ter than us.

The only clubs that have spent **** loads and have something to show for it are the clubs who are either still benefiting from financial doping or are simply much bigger than us.

:sigh: :rolleyes:

[Monty92]

I feel that there’s something of the brexiteer about your position on Wenger. Your desire for change is little more than an instinct. You’re bored.

Looking at it like this, perhaps I should be a little more sympathetic.




I dont really know what you mean by that.

I would like us to fail in a different way next year, for the sheer variety of it. I think that says it best.

[Peter]

Well Spurs made a net profit and they are the golden boys of the premier league. Liverpool spent about £40 million and are even ****ter than us.

The only clubs that have spent **** loads and have something to show for it are the clubs who are either still benefiting from financial doping or are simply much bigger than us.

So the only ones who have spent ****loads and have something to show for it are the ones who spent ****loads?

I agree that spending more money wont solve the problem but that doesnt really explain some of the odd behaviour we have seen over recent summers. THe year we signed nobody, the year we signed nobody until Ozil on the last day, this summer when we refused to budge on Sanchez until the last day and then ran out of time. The year he left us with only a 19 year old as cover at centre back. THe three years in a row he had to act in January to get midfield cover after doing nothing all summer.

We have bought some good players but there have been glaring errors and a bit of a feel of indecision. One wonders whether wenger and Gazidis are consistently on the same page.

[Peter]

I feel that there’s something of the brexiteer about your position on Wenger. Your desire for change is little more than an instinct. You’re bored.

Looking at it like this, perhaps I should be a little more sympathetic.

It is more that I have run out of faith in him, completely. Now I am convinced we cant do any better with him I am willing to risk the 'leap in the dark' without him.

That doesnt mean I dont still love him. Its like a wife whose cooking is never going to get any better. You get fed, you stay alive, but surely there are better meals out there somewhere.

The analogy is deliberately sexist, before you start ;)

[Monty92]

But my point was that your loss of faith is an instinct. How could it be anything else? You’re not an expert. Neither of us are. We’re just some ****s on a message board.

Though obviously some ****s are more equal than others.




It is more that I have run out of faith in him, completely. Now I am convinced we cant do any better with him I am willing to risk the 'leap in the dark' without him.

That doesnt mean I dont still love him. Its like a wife whose cooking is never going to get any better. You get fed, you stay alive, but surely there are better meals out there somewhere.

The analogy is deliberately sexist, before you start ;)

[Peter]

But my point was that your loss of faith is an instinct. How could it be anything else? You’re not an expert. Neither of us are. We’re just some ****s on a message board.

Though obviously some ****s are more equal than others.

Tracing back through the conversation, its based on a balance of experience and his stubbornness. What he does has not worked for years and he isn't one for changing his mind.

Obviously 'faith' (and let us not start on that again) is never going to be a scientific calculation but equally I have not plucked it out of the air.

His sides will continue to have the same weaknesses and these will always sufficiently undermine the strengths to ensure that we never get beyond our comfortable 3rd/4th place which now seems to be the distant horizon of ambition rather than the comfort zone.

[redgunamo]

But my point was that your loss of faith is an instinct. How could it be anything else? You’re not an expert. Neither of us are. We’re just some ****s on a message board.

Though obviously some ****s are more equal than others.

Brexit was a desire to undo a change, not the other way about; we've always disliked the Germans and the French.

[Peter]

Brexit was a desire to undo a change, not the other way about; we've always disliked the Germans and the French.

And the Belgians.

[redgunamo]

And the Belgians.

Everyone basically, that's maybe why we live on an island :homer:

[Peter]

Everyone basically, that's maybe why we live on an island :homer:

I think the major issue was that they constantly bickered with each other and we were sick of hearing it.

Obviously we had our own particular issues with the French (who wouldn't) and the germans sometimes turned up mob-handed looking for a ruck.....