8 days of undulterated bliss in the United Arab Emirates

[World's End Stella]

are now over and all I have to show for it is this wonderful tan and a liver in need of repair. :-(

Other than the wonderful memories of laying in the salt water of the Gulf of Oman whilst gazing at the Al Hajar mountains, refreshing swims with my wife and children in the quite wonderful pool, the endless array of pints, cocktails and bubbly, the magnificence of the burrata at the Italian restaurant, the genius of the roast duck at the Asian restaurant, the mouth watering steaks at the Gonu Bar overlooking the Gulf of Oman and the general bonhomie with the families whom we met and enjoyed many meals and discussions, of course.

'Ave that you Dutch Paddy c*nt :-)

[Sir C]

are now over and all I have to show for it is this wonderful tan and a liver in need of repair. :-(

Other than the wonderful memories of laying in the salt water of the Gulf of Oman whilst gazing at the Al Hajar mountains, refreshing swims with my wife and children in the quite wonderful pool, the endless array of pints, cocktails and bubbly, the magnificence of the burrata at the Italian restaurant, the genius of the roast duck at the Asian restaurant, the mouth watering steaks at the Gonu Bar overlooking the Gulf of Oman and the general bonhomie with the families whom we met and enjoyed many meals and discussions, of course.

'Ave that you Dutch Paddy c*nt :-)

You have clearly broadened your cultural horizons and I salute you, w. I mean, schlepping to the middle east to feast on the same food you eat in London and lying in a pond of chlorine and urine is proper David Livingstone stuff.

Now that you're a seasoned traveller, you could try somewhere really exotic next year, like Magaluf.

[World's End Stella]

You have clearly broadened your cultural horizons and I salute you, w. I mean, schlepping to the middle east to feast on the same food you eat in London and lying in a pond of chlorine and urine is proper David Livingstone stuff.

Now that you're a seasoned traveller, you could try somewhere really exotic next year, like Magaluf.

You know, I thought of you once on holiday, Charles.

One of the women who has been there many times mentioned a very expensive hotel in Dubai that they had attended instead one year. She hated it as the food was awful and the clientele largely consisted of anti-social snobs who went there mostly to reaffirm in their own minds how rich and sophisticated they must be in order to afford it.

It was at that point that I thought of you. :-)

[IUFG]

Now that you're a seasoned traveller, you could try somewhere really exotic next year, like Magaluf.

A good night out is Magaluf.

Well it was 30 years ago (nearly).

Sun, E's, Karting track, cheap booze, even cheaper girls. What was not to like?

[Viva Prat Vegas]

We have also had 8 days of unadulterated bliss

[Sir C]

You know, I thought of you once on holiday, Charles.

One of the women who has been there many times mentioned a very expensive hotel in Dubai that they had attended instead one year. She hated it as the food was awful and the clientele largely consisted of anti-social snobs who went there mostly to reaffirm in their own minds how rich and sophisticated they must be in order to afford it.

It was at that point that I thought of you. :-)

I thought of you when I saw a dog poo on the pavement.*

Plus, your mum.

*I didn't see a dog poo on the pavement.

[Burney]

You know, I thought of you once on holiday, Charles.

One of the women who has been there many times mentioned a very expensive hotel in Dubai that they had attended instead one year. She hated it as the food was awful and the clientele largely consisted of anti-social snobs who went there mostly to reaffirm in their own minds how rich and sophisticated they must be in order to afford it.

It was at that point that I thought of you. :-)

Anyone who holidays in Dubai is in no position to feel snobbish about anything, though :shrug:

It is a vulgar, ugly, ghastly place for vulgar, ugly, ghastly people

[Burney]

We have also had 8 days of unadulterated bliss

:hehe: nice one, centurion

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Wesley did you sweat over there ?

[Sir C]

Wesley did you sweat over there ?

Did he sweat? :hehe:

I've stood in a boozer ankle-deep in his sweat when it was 5 degrees outside. The man sweats like a sex tourist lying by a Dubai swimming pool.

[World's End Stella]

Anyone who holidays in Dubai is in no position to feel snobbish about anything, though :shrug:

It is a vulgar, ugly, ghastly place for vulgar, ugly, ghastly people

That would be a relevant point if I had actually holidayed in Dubai.

But I didn't.

[IUFG]

Anyone who holidays in Dubai is in no position to feel snobbish about anything, though :shrug:

It is a vulgar, ugly, ghastly place for vulgar, ugly, ghastly people

Dubai is alright if you don't mind remortgaging to pay for a round of drinks.

At least you don't get the usual suspects of pissed up Brits (or Germans or Russians) causing trouble of an evening.

Plus, there seems to be ****ing fantastic Lebanese restaurants everywhere.

[Sir C]

That would be a relevant point if I had actually holidayed in Dubai.

But I didn't.

You didn't venture 500 metres to Abu Dhabi, did you? You absolute explorer, you! :hehe:

[World's End Stella]

Wesley did you sweat over there ?

This is an attempt to win the Rhetorical Question of the Year Award, right?

It was between 35C and 39C every day we were there with clear blue skies every day. Mind you, I tend to sweat less when swimming in a lovely pool or the Gulf of Oman and gulping down dozens of pints and G&Ts every day.

[SWv2]

Did he sweat? :hehe:

I've stood in a boozer ankle-deep in his sweat when it was 5 degrees outside. The man sweats like a sex tourist lying by a Dubai swimming pool.

Can you not simply be nice?

Accept that others like different things and move on. Wes likes the UAE and the associated trappings of luxury, you head off to wherever suits your taste, Far East or African safari.

[World's End Stella]

Can you not simply be nice?

Accept that others like different things and move on. Wes likes the UAE and the associated trappings of luxury, you head off to wherever suits your taste, Far East or African safari.

Yes, he likes to be the adventurous tourist who experiences all that life has to offer no matter how dangerous.

Like in the Mandarin Oriental in Bangkok.

[Sir C]

Can you not simply be nice?

Accept that others like different things and move on. Wes likes the UAE and the associated trappings of luxury, you head off to wherever suits your taste, Far East or African safari.

1. When were you last nice?
2. He raised the subject and called me out over it. I don't give a fúck where he goes to support fascist regimes and the exploitation of third world slaves.

[Burney]

That would be a relevant point if I had actually holidayed in Dubai.

But I didn't.

You mentioned someone talking about people in Dubai being snobbish about it, you poltroon!

[World's End Stella]

You mentioned someone talking about people in Dubai being snobbish about it, you poltroon!

Ah, I see. On rereading you weren't taking a shot at me. That fact somewhat confused me. :-)

My apologies.

[Pokster]

Can you not simply be nice?

Accept that others like different things and move on. Wes likes the UAE and the associated trappings of luxury, you head off to wherever suits your taste, Far East or African safari.

It's the way of modern AWIMB sw, insults galore and hardly a nice word to day about anyone or anything




nice to see you sober at lunchtime

[Sir C]

This is an attempt to win the Rhetorical Question of the Year Award, right?

It was between 35C and 39C every day we were there with clear blue skies every day. Mind you, I tend to sweat less when swimming in a lovely pool or the Gulf of Oman and gulping down dozens of pints and G&Ts every day.

D'you know they always give me the same room at the MO, just because I mentioned once, perhaps 12 years ago, that I liked it. 617, a few doors down from the John Le Carré suite. They never forget.

God knows what I'll do if the day should come when I can afford to stay in the John Le Carré suite. Break someone's heart, no doubt.

[SWv2]

It's the way of modern AWIMB sw, insults galore and hardly a nice word to day about anyone or anything

nice to see you sober at lunchtime

Indeed, however attacking a fellow Arsenal brother over where he chooses to holiday is extreme.

They both go to different places, pay large sums of money and presumably get huge enjoyment. This should be a cause for happiness not friction.

[Peter]

Yes, he likes to be the adventurous tourist who experiences all that life has to offer no matter how dangerous.

Like in the Mandarin Oriental in Bangkok.

Nothing wrong with a Mandarin Oriental.

Glad you enjoyed a well-deserved holiday. Welcome back.

You missed Ramsey scoring at everton. He was ****e.

[Pokster]

Indeed, however attacking a fellow Arsenal brother over where he chooses to holiday is extreme.

They both go to different places, pay large sums of money and presumably get huge enjoyment. This should be a cause for happiness not friction.

And it gave us 8 days without WES... so a win win situation all round

[Peter]

D'you know they always give me the same room at the MO, just because I mentioned once, perhaps 12 years ago, that I liked it. 617, a few doors down from the John Le Carré suite. They never forget.

God knows what I'll do if the day should come when I can afford to stay in the John Le Carré suite. Break someone's heart, no doubt.

The Shangri-La always, and I mean ALWAYS, upgrade me to a premium smoking suite. They also leave complimentary fags by the bed.

This is why I never stay anywhere else.

[World's End Stella]

Nothing wrong with a Mandarin Oriental.

Glad you enjoyed a well-deserved holiday. Welcome back.

You missed Ramsey scoring at everton. He was ****e.

Yes, I did. You know the game was on the telly in the cocktail bar at the hotel I was at but I couldn't be bothered going to watch. A pool, my family, friends and cold drinks were far more appealing than Arsenal.

Besides, I don't really have any interest in Ramsey being sh1t anymore. I did for some time when I routinely watched him being sh1t while others kept telling me he wasn't. I found it baffling and the paradigm interested me.

But the Liverpool game and the criticism from the MOTD commentators put all that to rest. It revealed everything you need to know about him as a player and anyone who continues to defend him after that simply needs a new hobby.

[Sir C]

The Shangri-La always, and I mean ALWAYS, upgrade me to a premium smoking suite. They also leave complimentary fags by the bed.

This is why I never stay anywhere else.

Apparently vaping is illegal in Thailand, so I'm going to have to go back on the fags in January.

[SWv2]

The Shangri-La always, and I mean ALWAYS, upgrade me to a premium smoking suite. They also leave complimentary fags by the bed.

This is why I never stay anywhere else.

I expect they know by now the extra space afforded by a suite allows you to bring more prostitutes to the room, some of whom will be siblings of the hotel staff so they are really looking after themselves.

[Peter]

Yes, I did. You know the game was on the telly in the cocktail bar at the hotel I was at but I couldn't be bothered going to watch. A pool, my family, friends and cold drinks were far more appealing than Arsenal.

Besides, I don't really have any interest in Ramsey being sh1t anymore. I did for some time when I routinely watched him being sh1t while others kept telling me he wasn't. I found it baffling and the paradigm interested me.

But the Liverpool game and the criticism from the MOTD commentators put all that to rest. It revealed everything you need to know about him as a player and anyone who continues to defend him after that simply needs a new hobby.

Now I hate watching Arsenal (and Ramsey in particular) but if doing so got me out of spending time with family, friends and a swimming pool I would be all over it....

[Burney]

Ah, I see. On rereading you weren't taking a shot at me. That fact somewhat confused me. :-)

My apologies.

Don't get used to it. ;-)

[Peter]

I expect they know by now the extra space afforded by a suite allows you to bring more prostitutes to the room, some of whom will be siblings of the hotel staff so they are really looking after themselves.

No, it isn't that. They know I dont indulge in that sort of thing. They do it because I am the main man, the head honcho, the decision-maker, the big cheese, numero uno, the Boss.

In other words, I signed the contract for the corporate account and my card pays all the bills. So they look after me- they follow the money.

Very sensible of them.

[Burney]

Apparently vaping is illegal in Thailand, so I'm going to have to go back on the fags in January.

Really? Why? I mean, you can basically fück kids in Thailand and they're worried about vaping?

[Sir C]

Indeed, however attacking a fellow Arsenal brother over where he chooses to holiday is extreme.

They both go to different places, pay large sums of money and presumably get huge enjoyment. This should be a cause for happiness not friction.

:hehe: Funny guy.

[Peter]

Apparently vaping is illegal in Thailand, so I'm going to have to go back on the fags in January.

I dont think the law is necessarily applied to those carrying a british passport. At least that is my usual assumption on such matters.

[Pokster]

No, it isn't that. They know I dont indulge in that sort of thing. They do it because I am the main man, the head honcho, the decision-maker, the big cheese, numero uno, the Boss.

In other words, I signed the contract for the corporate account and my card pays all the bills. So they look after me- they follow the money.

Very sensible of them.

Do they know you live in Colchester?

[Peter]

Really? Why? I mean, you can basically fück kids in Thailand and they're worried about vaping?

Control the controllables, b.

You cant stop people ****ing kids but you can stop the *******s having a good vape afterwards.

[Peter]

Do they know you live in Colchester?

Yes, as they frequently send me stuff at home. Champagne, hampers, vouchers etc.....

Of course, they have no idea what or where Colchester is and they dont care.

[SWv2]

:hehe: Funny guy.

It is the only shred of anything that we have in common and it should be cherished.

[Sir C]

Really? Why? I mean, you can basically fück kids in Thailand and they're worried about vaping?

Hmm, if I were a sex tourist type looking for youthful victims I would be inclined to head for Cambodia or Laos in preference to Thailand, which is working quite hard at becoming civilised. A farang can still bribe his way out of a traffic violation easily enough, but drugs or kids are very much off limits nowadays.

The cigarette distributors are owned by influential Thai families, so there's no way they're going to allow a competitor into their market.

[Peter]

It is the only shred of anything that we have in common and it should be cherished.

Not true. You are both partly Irish....you could bond over the colour green.

[Sir C]

I dont think the law is necessarily applied to those carrying a british passport. At least that is my usual assumption on such matters.

It's now being very, very strictly applied. 20,000 baht fine and a day in the police station.

[Burney]

Control the controllables, b.

You cant stop people ****ing kids but you can stop the *******s having a good vape afterwards.

So 'rapists yes, vapists no'?

An odd set of priorities imo.

[Peter]

Hmm, if I were a sex tourist type looking for youthful victims I would be inclined to head for Cambodia or Laos in preference to Thailand, which is working quite hard at becoming civilised. A farang can still bribe his way out of a traffic violation easily enough, but drugs or kids are very much off limits nowadays.

The cigarette distributors are owned by influential Thai families, so there's no way they're going to allow a competitor into their market.

I thought it was all vietnam these days. Or is it getting a bit pricey there now?

[Burney]

Hmm, if I were a sex tourist type looking for youthful victims I would be inclined to head for Cambodia or Laos in preference to Thailand, which is working quite hard at becoming civilised. A farang can still bribe his way out of a traffic violation easily enough, but drugs or kids are very much off limits nowadays.

The cigarette distributors are owned by influential Thai families, so there's no way they're going to allow a competitor into their market.

Well it's...erm...good to know you've looked into it. :-\

[Peter]

So 'rapists yes, vapists no'?

An odd set of priorities imo.

Yes. India went to great lengths to ban smoking in all public places. So there are still people starving to death in the streets but at least now they wont suffer from secondary smoke.

[Burney]

I thought it was all vietnam these days. Or is it getting a bit pricey there now?

:-( Can everyone PLEASE stop having sex with children, ffs?!

I really can't emphasise this point strongly enough.

[Sir C]

I thought it was all vietnam these days. Or is it getting a bit pricey there now?

I'm not an expert in these matters, you understand, but my guess would be that bribing a Cambodian policeman would be considerably easier than bribing a Vietnamese equivalent. And having bribed Cambodian policemen, I can assure you that it is a simple matter. (I was driving across Cambodia, which is illegal for foireigners. Not fúcking kids.)

[Burney]

Yes. India went to great lengths to ban smoking in all public places. So there are still people starving to death in the streets but at least now they wont suffer from secondary smoke.

:sigh: Well, I suppose if it weren't like that, it wouldn't be the thir...sorry... 'developing' world, would it? That would leave nothing for westerners to gawp at at all.

And that would never do, would it?

[Sir C]

:-( Can everyone PLEASE stop having sex with children, ffs?!

I really can't emphasise this point strongly enough.

Travel broadens the mind, b, but only if one is willing to engage with local customs :shrug:

[Peter]

:-( Can everyone PLEASE stop having sex with children, ffs?!

I really can't emphasise this point strongly enough.

I dont think many people are, to be honest. Unless you count girls under the UK age of consent- I think a fair bit of that goes on.

I can honestly say I have never seen anything of this sort.

[Burney]

I was driving across Cambodia, which is illegal for foreigners

They didn't seem to mind when it was the NVA, did they?

[SWv2]

:-( Can everyone PLEASE stop having sex with children, ffs?!

I really can't emphasise this point strongly enough.

They both do appear to be very well versed in where is go, and where is not good, with respect to the ins and outs, as such, of shagging a little boy.

Quite disturbing really.

Bet this does not happen in Oman.

[Sir C]

Yes. India went to great lengths to ban smoking in all public places. So there are still people starving to death in the streets but at least now they wont suffer from secondary smoke.

:hehe: I once guiltily extinguished a cigarette when I saw a policeman in the street in India which caused him some distress, as he insisted that I lit up and continued to enjoy my smoke, as the law was for 'local people, not white man!'

[Burney]

They both do appear to be very well versed in where is go, and where is not good, with respect to the ins and outs, as such, of shagging a little boy.

Quite disturbing really.

Bet this does not happen in Oman.

I'm struck by the fact you assume it's little boys. Also, Johnny A-rab will cornhole a young boy soon as look at him.

[Peter]

:sigh: Well, I suppose if it weren't like that, it wouldn't be the their...sorry... 'developing' world, would it? That would leave nothing for westerners to gawp at at all.

And that would never do, would it?

Actually they have at least made sure the poor, starving buggers dont litter the streets around the five star hotels anymore. They mostly die beneath the new underpasses so you actually have to go and look for them.

[Sir C]

They didn't seem to mind when it was the NVA, did they?

No, but then getting flattened by B52s as a result may have changed their attitude somewhat.

[Luis Anaconda]

Indeed, however attacking a fellow Arsenal brother over where he chooses to holiday is extreme.

They both go to different places, pay large sums of money and presumably get huge enjoyment. This should be a cause for happiness not friction.
I went to Ireland for mine :(

[Sir C]

It is the only shred of anything that we have in common and it should be cherished.

You always claim to have no emotional attachment to the club. :shrug:

[Peter]

I'm struck by the fact you assume it's little boys. Also, Johnny A-rab will cornhole a young boy soon as look at him.

Its his (b)latent homophobia, b. In his mind ***** and homo are still the same thing.

Look at the stick he gives to the poor shirtlifter in his office.

[SWv2]

I went to Ireland for mine :(

Fúck all wrong with Clonakilty pal.

[Peter]

:hehe: I once guiltily extinguished a cigarette when I saw a policeman in the street in India which caused him some distress, as he insisted that I lit up and continued to enjoy my smoke, as the law was for 'local people, not white man!'

I lit a fag at Singapore zoo along with my chinese-malaysian colleague. A guard immediately ran over and told him to put his fag out :)

[Peter]

Fúck all wrong with Clonakilty pal.

I watched Bergkamp's goal at Newcastle in a pub in Clonakilty.

United fans everywhere....

[Burney]

No, but then getting flattened by B52s as a result may have changed their attitude somewhat.

I've been watching thon Vietnam War doodad. I am more convinced than ever that the main problem the US had was being a bunch of fùcking pussies. I'd have invaded North Vietnam and asked China exactly what the fùck they planned to do about it whilst pointing to all my bright, shiny nuclear weapons and conducting less than subtle manoeuvres with the US Pacific Fleet.

[SWv2]

You always claim to have no emotional attachment to the club. :shrug:

I cherish the friendships that are borne by our common brotherhood. The camaraderie on match day, the feelings of joy and despair in equal measures resulting from such things as Bendtner's goal v Spurs or the sight of Giroud coming off the bench.

It is indeed true I feel nothing special for any of the current players, there is no hero in there, no players you would defend to the point of ridiculous in the pub argument.

What of it?

[Luis Anaconda]

Fúck all wrong with Clonakilty pal.

Apart from the weather - cracking pubs it must be said

[Sir C]

I've been watching thon Vietnam War doodad. I am more convinced than ever that the main problem the US had was being a bunch of fùcking pussies. I'd have invaded North Vietnam and asked China exactly what the fùck they planned to do about it whilst pointing to all my bright, shiny nuclear weapons and conducting less than subtle manoeuvres with the US Pacific Fleet.

I tend to agree, but those little yellow-skinned fellas are seriously as hard a fúcking nails, b. Wiry, you know. And they'll march all day on a cup of rice. A tricky opponent under even the best of circumstances.

[Rich]

I cherish the friendships that are borne by our common brotherhood. The camaraderie on match day, the feelings of joy and despair in equal measures resulting from such things as Bendtner's goal v Spurs or the sight of Giroud coming off the bench.

It is indeed true I feel nothing special for any of the current players, there is no hero in there, no players you would defend to the point of ridiculous in the pub argument.

What of it?

I agree with you here. However, I do like Koscielney but he is a defender so hard to be excited about. Kolisinac also has the potential to become a favourite.

[Pokster]

I tend to agree, but those little yellow-skinned fellas are seriously as hard a fúcking nails, b. Wiry, you know. And they'll march all day on a cup of rice. A tricky opponent under even the best of circumstances.

**** defenders those africans though

[Burney]

I tend to agree, but those little yellow-skinned fellas are seriously as hard a fúcking nails, b. Wiry, you know. And they'll march all day on a cup of rice. A tricky opponent under even the best of circumstances.

You can be as hard as you like, but starvation, disease and massively superior firepower will still soften your cough.

[Ash]

D'you know they always give me the same room at the MO, just because I mentioned once, perhaps 12 years ago, that I liked it. 617, a few doors down from the John Le Carré suite. They never forget.

Indeed. Hotel software is designed to store customer preferences so that should they return the guest can be made to feel special by having their stay tailored to their satisfaction, and hence more likely to return again. :thumbup:

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

No, it isn't that. They know I dont indulge in that sort of thing. They do it because I am the main man, the head honcho, the decision-maker, the big cheese, numero uno, the Boss.

In other words, I signed the contract for the corporate account and my card pays all the bills. So they look after me- they follow the money.

Very sensible of them.

Head honcho? - I thought you were some Henry Wilt type character struggling in a seedy polytechnic somewhere near Chesterfield or similar?

[World's End Stella]

I've been watching thon Vietnam War doodad. I am more convinced than ever that the main problem the US had was being a bunch of fùcking pussies. I'd have invaded North Vietnam and asked China exactly what the fùck they planned to do about it whilst pointing to all my bright, shiny nuclear weapons and conducting less than subtle manoeuvres with the US Pacific Fleet.

It's very good, Ken Burns is excellent.

Your suggestion is madness, BTW. :thumbup:

[Peter]

Head honcho? - I thought you were some Henry Wilt type character struggling in a seedy polytechnic somewhere near Chesterfield or similar?

Yes, but they dont know that. I pay the bills so they think I'm the gaffer.

[Burney]

It's very good, Ken Burns is excellent.

Your suggestion is madness, BTW. :thumbup:

Getting involved in a war without being prepared to do what's necessary to win it was the real madness. As Jacky Fisher, former Admiral of the Fleet put it: 'The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility.'

This is a lesson the Americans seem oddly unwilling to learn.

[World's End Stella]

Getting involved in a war without being prepared to do what's necessary to win it was the real madness. As Jacky Fisher, former Admiral of the Fleet put it: 'The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility.'

This is a lesson the Americans seem oddly unwilling to learn.

Getting involved in a war they couldn't win would be a better way of putting it, and yes it was madness.

[Ash]

Yes, but they dont know that. I pay the bills so they think I'm the gaffer.

Happens quite a lot. Often, the last contact name to go against the customer company record is the accounts payable person who settles up at the end of the project, so they're the ones who get sent all the bribes by the marketing depertment.

wd you.

[Peter]

Getting involved in a war they couldn't win would be a better way of putting it, and yes it was madness.

THe suggestion seems to be that they could have won it, they just didnt like the necessary method.

It was a **** war because we weren't it. Sorry, but war without us is just boring and everybody knows it.

[Peter]

Happens quite a lot. Often, the last contact name to go against the customer company record is the accounts payable person who settles up at the end of the project, so they're the ones who get sent all the bribes by the marketing depertment.

wd you.

Also, I am very nice to them because...well, because I am just nice. They appreciate that given that the rest of their customers are rich and therefore almost exclusively rude.

[Burney]

Getting involved in a war they couldn't win would be a better way of putting it, and yes it was madness.

Of course they could win it. Militarily, they were more than capable of winning it in double quick time. They just weren't prepared to do what was necessary, which was invade another country, anger the Chinese and kill a fùck ton of people (although that number almost certainly would have been fewer than they actually ended up killing by dragging the thing out for 10 years).

[Burney]

THe suggestion seems to be that they could have won it, they just didnt like the necessary method.

It was a **** war because we weren't it. Sorry, but war without us is just boring and everybody knows it.

That's certainly true. We were as well staying out of that shītshow, though. Although we could have shown them a few tricks we'd learnt in the Malayan Emergency.

[Ash]

Getting involved in a war without being prepared to do what's necessary to win it was the real madness. As Jacky Fisher, former Admiral of the Fleet put it: 'The essence of war is violence. Moderation in war is imbecility.'

This is a lesson the Americans seem oddly unwilling to learn.

I'm not so sure they actually want to win any of their current wars, in any meaningful way, as much as to create further chaos. For example, by smashing up Libya they've created more terrorism around Africa which is used as a reason for more interventions and ever higher military budgets (the latest increase in the annual military budget is higher than the total military budget in Russia) and more money for the arms manufacturers who sponsor the careers of the politicians who call in the wars. Trebles all round!

It is possible that the Afghanistan conflict is being kept going because apart from the alleged value of the poppy harvest to the covert budgets of a certain three-initial-acronym agency, the perpetual chaos hampers China's ability to achieve its new Silk Road trading aims.

And so on.

[World's End Stella]

Of course they could win it. Militarily, they were more than capable of winning it in double quick time. They just weren't prepared to do what was necessary, which was invade another country, anger the Chinese and kill a fùck ton of people (although that number almost certainly would have been fewer than they actually ended up killing by dragging the thing out for 10 years).

The Americans defined the rules of the game. They were very clear, 'winning the war' was stopping the flow of NVA and VC into South Vietnam and killing enough of them that they no longer wished to continue the fight. And they utterly failed to do so. The idea that they never fully unleashed their military because they lacked the balls to do so is nonsense, and McNamara - amongst many others - made it very clear that that was the case. They didn't unleash their military because they knew it wouldn't make any difference. Vietnam was not Germany, there was very little infrastructure to bomb and the country's geography made guerilla warfare much easier. McNamara knew what those who followed him subsequently discovered, that America's military could not win the war under the rules they themselves had defined.

If by 'invading' Vietman you mean landing troops all over Vietnam, taking control of the cities and towns, as the Nazis did with France, and then trying to control the country, that would have been equally futile. The cost to both sides would have been enormous and the Americans would have had to decide to stay there permanently and suffer the ongoing losses for many years until they finally gave up (as the Russians did in Afghanistan). Would that have 'won the war'?

America lost the war because it was not a war that could be won militarily. Thinking otherwise is making the same mistake that the Americans made. More bombing, more troops, more firepower - none of it would have made any difference in the long run, something they realized far too late.

[Burney]

I'm not so sure they actually want to win any of their current wars, in any meaningful way, as much as to create further chaos. For example, by smashing up Libya they've created more terrorism around Africa which is used as a reason for more inteventions and ever higher military budgets (the latest increase in the annual military budget is higher than the total military budget in Russia) and more money for the arms manufacturers who sponsor the careers of the politicians who call in the wars. Trebles all round!

It is possible that the Afghanistan conflict is being kept going because apart from the alleged value of the poppy harvest to the covert budgets of a certain three-initial-acronym agency, the perpetual chaos hampers China's ability to achieve its new Silk Road trading aims.

And so on.

Perpetual war for perpetual peace, sort of thing, you mean? I wouldn't hold that against them. They're the big dog. That means they have interests everywhere and have to protect them everywhere.

[Burney]

The Americans defined the rules of the game. They were very clear, 'winning the war' was stopping the flow of NVA and VC into South Vietnam and killing enough of them that they no longer wished to continue the fight. And they utterly failed to do so. The idea that they never fully unleashed their military because they lacked the balls to do so is nonsense, and McNamara - amongst many others - made it very clear that that was the case. They didn't unleash their military because they knew it wouldn't make any difference. Vietnam was not Germany, there was very little infrastructure to bomb and the country's geography made guerilla warfare much easier. McNamara knew what those who followed him subsequently discovered, that America's military could not win the war under the rules they themselves had defined.

If by 'invading' Vietman you mean landing troops all over Vietnam, taking control of the cities and towns, as the Nazis did with France, and then trying to control the country, that would have been equally futile. The cost to both sides would have been enormous and the Americans would have had to decide to stay there permanently and suffer the ongoing losses for many years until they finally gave up (as the Russians did in Afghanistan). Would that have 'won the war'?

America lost the war because it was not a war that could be won militarily. Thinking otherwise is making the same mistake that the Americans made. More bombing, more troops, more firepower - none of it would have made any difference in the long run, something they realized far too late.

The Vietnamese could very quickly have been brought to a point where they did not have the means to resist. After which, mass, enforced migrations of population into resettlement camps ('concentration camps' as we called them in S.Africa) that separated the civilian population from any remaining resistance and took away any source of sustenance from the guerrillas would have been eminently effective.

It's perfectly possible to win as the larger state in asymmetrical warfare. You just have to be prepared to take the losses and to do some nasty shít.

[Luis Anaconda]

The Vietnamese could very quickly have been brought to a point where they did not have the means to resist. After which, mass, enforced migrations of population into resettlement camps ('concentration camps' as we called them in S.Africa) that separated the civilian population from any remaining resistance and took away any source of sustenance from the guerrillas would have been eminently effective.

It's perfectly possible to win as the larger state in asymmetrical warfare. You just have to be prepared to take the losses and to do some nasty shít.

And so in just 9 simple pages, we've gone from WES's holiday in a UAE hotel to concentration camps. wd b and awimb all round

[World's End Stella]

The Vietnamese could very quickly have been brought to a point where they did not have the means to resist. After which, mass, enforced migrations of population into resettlement camps ('concentration camps' as we called them in S.Africa) that separated the civilian population from any remaining resistance and took away any source of sustenance from the guerrillas would have been eminently effective.

It's perfectly possible to win as the larger state in asymmetrical warfare. You just have to be prepared to take the losses and to do some nasty shít.

The Americans spent the better part of 10 years trying to get to the point that they did not have the means to resist, and failed. More bombing and more men would not have changed that. As McNamara said, and I paraphrase, 'we significantly under-estimated the desire of the North Vietnamese to unite the country'.

Everything you've posted is consistent with Westmoreland's view on the war. And it was proven to be incorrect.

[World's End Stella]

And so in just 9 simple pages, we've gone from WES's holiday in a UAE hotel to concentration camps. wd b and awimb all round

Wasn't there an overview of child sex tourism in there as well somewhere.

As you said, wd everyone.

[SWv2]

Wasn't there an overview of child sex tourism in there as well somewhere.

As you said, wd everyone.

Not so much an overview as an insight given by our two widely traveled Far Eastern correspondents, Dutch and Pedro.

[Burney]

The Americans spent the better part of 10 years trying to get to the point that they did not have the means to resist, and failed. More bombing and more men would not have changed that. As McNamara said, and I paraphrase, 'we significantly under-estimated the desire of the North Vietnamese to unite the country'.

Everything you've posted is consistent with Westmoreland's view on the war. And it was proven to be incorrect.

How could it be proven incorrect since it was never tried? The Americans fought the war with one hand tied behind their backs. They couldn't stop the movement of men and munitions along the Ho Chi Minh trail because they weren't prepared to go into Cambodia and Laos in sufficient numbers - let alone into North Vietnam. Only by fighting an untrammelled war irrespective of boundaries could the US possibly have won.

[Burney]

And so in just 9 simple pages, we've gone from WES's holiday in a UAE hotel to concentration camps. wd b and awimb all round

Well the UAE basically is a concentration camp for its migrant workers, so it's kind of appropriate.

[Peter]

That's certainly true. We were as well staying out of that shītshow, though. Although we could have shown them a few tricks we'd learnt in the Malayan Emergency.

Wd Harold Wilson. Good Huddersfield lad.

[World's End Stella]

How could it be proven incorrect since it was never tried? The Americans fought the war with one hand tied behind their backs. They couldn't stop the movement of men and munitions along the Ho Chi Minh trail because they weren't prepared to go into Cambodia and Laos in sufficient numbers - let alone into North Vietnam. Only by fighting an untrammelled war irrespective of boundaries could the US possibly have won.

No, they would have lost in the long run anyway. All subsequent analysis has shown this to be correct including McNamara's. The overwhelming consensus post '75, even amongst those involved in the decision making from 63-68, was that there was no military option that would have led to a victory. Many knew that as early as '63.

They had two choices; get out, or commit to staying and trying to control the country as an occupying force. Even ignoring the fact that they absolutely did not want to do the latter, even if they did try the North Vietnamese would simply have turned it into a guerilla war and waited them out. They weren't going anywhere, it was their country after all.

The overwhelming majority of Vietnamese people wanted foreign powers out and the reunification of the country. Given this, the Americans were fighting the people and as a result were always going to ultimately lose. As Johnson said, it was a war for the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people, and the military was not the tool to win that fight.

[eastgermanautos]

are now over and all I have to show for it is this wonderful tan and a liver in need of repair. :-(

Other than the wonderful memories of laying in the salt water of the Gulf of Oman whilst gazing at the Al Hajar mountains, refreshing swims with my wife and children in the quite wonderful pool, the endless array of pints, cocktails and bubbly, the magnificence of the burrata at the Italian restaurant, the genius of the roast duck at the Asian restaurant, the mouth watering steaks at the Gonu Bar overlooking the Gulf of Oman and the general bonhomie with the families whom we met and enjoyed many meals and discussions, of course.

'Ave that you Dutch Paddy c*nt :-)

What's the rule on cavorting with local Emirati chicks, eh? Does Arsenal's sponsorship deal extent to her supporters, giving you free rein in the local sex pits? Show the Gunners badge, ten bucks off? Asking for a friend.