This Harvey Weinstein fellow; he's clearly something of a knob.

[Sir C]

However, I'm somewhat cynical about the claims of those who felt 'violated' because he opned the door of his hotel room wearing a dressing gown. There seems to me to be an element of overreaction here.

It would appear that hyperbole is the new reason.

[Burney]

However, I'm somewhat cynical about the claims of those who felt 'violated' because he opned the door of his hotel room wearing a dressing gown. There seems to me to be an element of overreaction here.

It would appear that hyperbole is the new reason.

The thing is, that industry is full of horrible, ugly men who probably spent most of the first 20-odd years of their lives being rejected by women, so when they finally get a bit of power over women, they exploit it mercilessly. This age-old phenomenon can hardly come as a surprise to anyone, can it?

[IUFG]

However, I'm somewhat cynical about the claims of those who felt 'violated' because he opned the door of his hotel room wearing a dressing gown. There seems to me to be an element of overreaction here.

It would appear that hyperbole is the new reason.

:nod: if you offend anybody nowadays by any act or omission whether with aforethought or through thoughtlessness, you are a Nazi / Fascist. FACT!

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

However, I'm somewhat cynical about the claims of those who felt 'violated' because he opned the door of his hotel room wearing a dressing gown. There seems to me to be an element of overreaction here.

It would appear that hyperbole is the new reason.

script or the such, and then appears at the door in a silken dressing gown, flapping open to reveal his tumescent cock, then a woman could have grounds for complaint.

I find it odd that the only woman defending him is a dog's cock ugly as he is.

[Sir C]

script or the such, and then appears at the door in a silken dressing gown, flapping open to reveal his tumescent cock, then a woman could have grounds for complaint.

I find it odd that the only woman defending him is a do's cock ugly as he is.

You see, you've added the visible erection there, h. No one mentioned such an erection. The erection is, as ever, only in your head.

[Burney]

You see, you've added the visible erection there, h. No one mentioned such an erection. The erection is, as ever, only in your head.

So far, all we've heard is from women he's asked for a massage, masturbated into a pot plant in front of or greeted in his dressing gown. We've heard nothing to my knowledge of him slipping anyone the fattener, have we?

[World's End Stella]

So far, all we've heard is from women he's asked for a massage, masturbated into a pot plant in front of or greeted in his dressing gown. We've heard nothing to my knowledge of him slipping anyone the fattener, have we?

You think someone propositioning someone on a professional basis shouldn't be punishable by - at the very least - dismissal?

So your daughter applies for a job somewhere and the interviewer makes it clear he would like sex in exchange for the job offer and that's fine? She can either acquiesce or not take the job and just get on with it?

[Pokster]

You think someone propositioning someone on a professional basis shouldn't be punishable by - at the very least - dismissal?

So your daughter applies for a job somewhere and the interviewer makes it clear he would like sex in exchange for the job offer and that's fine? She can either acquiesce or not take the job and just get on with it?

A brokers in London interviewed a girl for a dealing job, she was asked if a client asked for a BJ what would she do.... she replied "it all depends how much brokerage he is paying".

She got the job

[Burney]

You think someone propositioning someone on a professional basis shouldn't be punishable by - at the very least - dismissal?

So your daughter applies for a job somewhere and the interviewer makes it clear he would like sex in exchange for the job offer and that's fine? She can either acquiesce or not take the job and just get on with it?

Sorry, but where did I say I didn’t think it was grounds for dismissal?

[World's End Stella]

Sorry, but where did I say I didn’t think it was grounds for dismissal?

You didn't - but you clearly played down the significance of his behavior in both your posts on this thread.

What he's done deserves dismissal and possibly incarceration.

[Sir C]

You didn't - but you clearly played down the significance of his behavior in both your posts on this thread.

What he's done deserves dismissal and possibly incarceration.

What, wearing a dressing gown?

[Burney]

You didn't - but you clearly played down the significance of his behavior in both your posts on this thread.

What he's done deserves dismissal and possibly incarceration.

No, I didn’t. I expressed my complete lack of surprise or outrage and some irritation at the way in cases like this that accusation immediately seems to magically transform into fact.

[World's End Stella]

What, wearing a dressing gown?

No, attempting to force women into having sex with him in order to further their careers.

Assuming it's proven, of course.

[Sir C]

No, attempting to force women into having sex with him in order to further their careers.

Assuming it's proven, of course.

Wearing a dressing gown isn't the same as trying to force someone to have sex with you, w.

[World's End Stella]

No, I didn’t. I expressed my complete lack of surprise or outrage and some irritation at the way in cases like this that accusation immediately seems to magically transform into fact.

I expect that transformation into fact might have something to do with the fact that so many women have come forward, that people within the industry have commented on how many stories they had heard about him and that he hasn't in any way denied it.

It can become not fact pretty quickly by him simply saying 'it never happened'. :shrug:

[World's End Stella]

No, I didn’t. I expressed my complete lack of surprise or outrage and some irritation at the way in cases like this that accusation immediately seems to magically transform into fact.

BTW, if memory serves you were pretty quick to condemn Chad Evans even though the judicial process had not run its course.

[Pokster]

Wearing a dressing gown isn't the same as trying to force someone to have sex with you, w.

I don't think that is all he has been accused of c... should have been wearing a smoking jacket imo

[Burney]

BTW, if memory serves you were pretty quick to condemn Chad Evans even though the judicial process had not run its course.

I condemned him on the basis that he had actually been convicted in a court of law. You’re condemning Weinstein on the basis of hearsay.

fwiw, I think they’re both probably revolting, sleazy ****s

[SWv2]

I condemned him on the basis that he had actually been convicted in a court of law. You’re condemning Weinstein on the basis of hearsay.

fwiw, I think they’re both probably revolting, sleazy ****s

Not illegal all the same is it?

The ladies still had a say, could exit the scenario should they wish.

Sleazy etc. as you say and roundly condemned now.

[World's End Stella]

I condemned him on the basis that he had actually been convicted in a court of law. You’re condemning Weinstein on the basis of hearsay.

fwiw, I think they’re both probably revolting, sleazy ****s

I didn't condemn Evans at the time because it seemed to me that he had an awfully strong argument that he was unjustly convicted so it seemed sensible to wait and let the judicial process complete before passing judgment.

My view of Weinstein is that there seems to be overwhelming evidence against him and his complete silence seems to suggest he's guilty. Although I wouldn't condemn him completely at this point, my point was that what he is being accused of is not just a bit of slap and tickle that can be easily dismissed, it needs to be treated seriously.

[World's End Stella]

Not illegal all the same is it?

The ladies still had a say, could exit the scenario should they wish.

Sleazy etc. as you say and roundly condemned now.

I'm not actually sure what the criminal offence would be, actually. If you can be charged and convicted of rape for not having made an effort to determine that the woman or man can consent, you would have thought that there was something criminal in coercing someone to have sex with you in order to receive a professional advantage.

[Burney]

I'm not actually sure what the criminal offence would be, actually. If you can be charged and convicted of rape for not having made an effort to determine that the woman or man can consent, you would have thought that there was something criminal in coercing someone to have sex with you in order to receive a professional advantage.

I'm pretty sure wànking into a plant pot is a criminal offence. Difficult to prove now, though.

[Pokster]

I'm pretty sure wànking into a plant pot is a criminal offence. Difficult to prove now, though.

What sort of pot plant? We need the full details? Was it a busy Lizzie?

[Burney]

What sort of pot plant? We need the full details? Was it a busy Lizzie?

If so, it would be a jizzy Busy Lizzie.

[Pokster]

If so, it would be a jizzy Busy Lizzie.

That was a tap in......

[Sir C]

I'm pretty sure wànking into a plant pot is a criminal offence. Difficult to prove now, though.

wes isn't bothered about ****ing. No. Public masturbation barely registers on wes's outrage scale. Wear an item of nightwear in your own bedroom, though, and he's off the fúcking scale enraged, urging a capital sentence.

[Burney]

wes isn't bothered about ****ing. No. Public masturbation barely registers on wes's outrage scale. Wear an item of nightwear in your own bedroom, though, and he's off the fúcking scale enraged, urging a capital sentence.

I shudder to think what he'd make of you emerging from your room after a late night in your undercrackers :-(

I'm interested in the mechanics of this pot plant wànking incident, tbh. How long was he there? Was he there from soup to nuts (as it were)? Because I'd have thought that would take a while even if the chap's on a hair trigger. Did he get up, go over to the plant, unzip, get started and continue to ejaculation? That's a lot of faff.

[Sir C]

I shudder to think what he'd make of you emerging from your room after a late night in your undercrackers :-(

I'm interested in the mechanics of this pot plant wànking incident, tbh. How long was he there? Was he there from soup to nuts (as it were)? Because I'd have thought that would take a while even if the chap's on a hair trigger. Did he get up, go over to the plant, unzip, get started and continue to ejaculation? That's a lot of faff.

I feel a little sorry for the plant. One shudders to imagine what HRH The Prince of Wales would have to say.

[Burney]

I feel a little sorry for the plant. One shudders to imagine what HRH The Prince of Wales would have to say.

Well if it was something like a Yucca or a cheese plant, it would at least be reasonably wipe-clean.

[Sir C]

Well if it was something like a Yucca or a cheese plant, it would at least be reasonably wipe-clean.

Cheese plant? :-(

[Peter]

Wearing a dressing gown isn't the same as trying to force someone to have sex with you, w.

Indeed. These women were offered a career fast track and are now complaining about it.

There is no pleasing some people.

[Pokster]

Well if it was something like a Yucca or a cheese plant, it would at least be reasonably wipe-clean.

Squirts his mucca on the yukka :yikes:

We need a Profumo with 10 favourite pot plants to come on

[SWv2]

Indeed. These women were offered a career fast track and are now complaining about it.

There is no pleasing some people.

Key word here Pedro.

:judge:

[Burney]

Indeed. These women were offered a career fast track and are now complaining about it.

There is no pleasing some people.

The ones who did take this route are keeping pretty schtum about it, naturally.

Although this article from 2015 names some names.

http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-us-what-you-know-about-harvey-weinsteins-open-sec-1695071092

And this more recent effort

https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/6-actresses-who-were-rumored-to-slept-their-way-to-the-top-with-harv3y-weinstein.800019/

[Ash]

Indeed. These women were offered a career fast track and are now complaining about it.

There is no pleasing some people.

If I thought you were being serious, the logical outcome of this would be that those women who submit to sleaze-bags and screw their way to the top will do so at the expense of those who don't. A system which seems to ecapsulate and reward prostitution and sexual predatism.

[Burney]

If I thought you were being serious, the logical outcome of this would be that those women who submit to sleaze-bags and screw their way to the top will do so at the expense of those who don't. A system which seems to ecapsulate and reward prostitution and sexual predatism.

Errr....yes. You didn't think the infamous 'Hollywood Casting Couch' was a myth, did you? It's been going on the best part of a century.

[Sir C]

If I thought you were being serious, the logical outcome of this would be that those women who submit to sleaze-bags and screw their way to the top will do so at the expense of those who don't. A system which seems to ecapsulate and reward prostitution and sexual predatism.

One could see it as the ultimate in meritocracy, of course; making the best use of one's natural gifts and talents.

[Burney]

One could see it as the ultimate in meritocracy, of course; making the best use of one's natural gifts and talents.

I'm slightly perturbed that p has been under the impression that Hollywood is a place of rigid moral scruple where no-one would ever dream of exchanging sexual favours for success, tbh.

[Ash]

Errr....yes. You didn't think the infamous 'Hollywood Casting Couch' was a myth, did you? It's been going on the best part of a century.

Precisely. I hope this scumbag is the first of many to be brought down. #draintheswamp

[redgunamo]

The thing is, that industry is full of horrible, ugly men who probably spent most of the first 20-odd years of their lives being rejected by women, so when they finally get a bit of power over women, they exploit it mercilessly. This age-old phenomenon can hardly come as a surprise to anyone, can it?

It's essentially the same as in any other industry you can name, in fact. This is slightly different though, because of Hollywood's oft-stated sanctimoniousness and holier-than-thou .. ness on such issues.

[redgunamo]

However, I'm somewhat cynical about the claims of those who felt 'violated' because he opned the door of his hotel room wearing a dressing gown. There seems to me to be an element of overreaction here.

It would appear that hyperbole is the new reason.

Perhaps that's why they didn't go straight to the police.

[redgunamo]

So far, all we've heard is from women he's asked for a massage, masturbated into a pot plant in front of or greeted in his dressing gown. We've heard nothing to my knowledge of him slipping anyone the fattener, have we?


Special mention to Donna Karan though, for inserting a bit of old-fashioned common sense into the kerfuffle. And no doubt saving me a few quid this Winter into the bargain :thumbup:

[redgunamo]

script or the such, and then appears at the door in a silken dressing gown, flapping open to reveal his tumescent cock, then a woman could have grounds for complaint.

I find it odd that the only woman defending him is a dog's cock ugly as he is.

It's equality gone mad, innit. I reckon the subtext here is that powerful ugly women too ought to allowed to be publicly accused of sexual misconduct, which of course they never are.

[PSRB]

Special mention to Donna Karan though, for inserting a bit of old-fashioned common sense into the kerfuffle. And no doubt saving me a few quid this Winter into the bargain :thumbup:

Quite, huge reductions coming up on DKNY clothing, wd Donna

[redgunamo]

Quite, huge reductions coming up on DKNY clothing, wd Donna

Right. Now just need Manuel Blahnik and the people at Daimler to speak out too and we'll be laughing :-\

[eastgermanautos]

script or the such, and then appears at the door in a silken dressing gown, flapping open to reveal his tumescent cock, then a woman could have grounds for complaint.

I find it odd that the only woman defending him is a dog's cock ugly as he is.

Well they're older, so of course they're not the spring chickens they once were. Donna Karan, etc. Also it's just a generational thing. They're fvcking the old goat in the ass, sweeping in a new bunch. Just a simple, time-honored process really.

[Peter]

If I thought you were being serious, the logical outcome of this would be that those women who submit to sleaze-bags and screw their way to the top will do so at the expense of those who don't. A system which seems to ecapsulate and reward prostitution and sexual predatism.

I am being serious. We are not talking about a job in the civil service here. Its Hollywood, it happens.

And can we please not indulge the fantasy that it is only women who suffer from this. There are plenty of stories of similar things happening to young boys, far younger than these women. Nobody seems to give a **** about that but they want me to get all bent out of shape because a few grossly ambitious young models and actresses were asked to suck a cock to get ahead (pun intended).

I heard one of the secretly recorded incidents on the radio and yes, its creepy, pretty gross. But the hacks on radio 5 falling over themselves in their gushing condemnation (oh my word, isn't it disgusting/appalling/horrifying/simply the worst thing ever) was arguably worse.

**** all this ****. I am not falling for it again.

Bloody women :(

[Burney]

I am being serious. We are not talking about a job in the civil service here. Its Hollywood, it happens.

And can we please not indulge the fantasy that it is only women who suffer from this. There are plenty of stories of similar things happening to young boys, far younger than these women. Nobody seems to give a **** about that but they want me to get all bent out of shape because a few grossly ambitious young models and actresses were asked to suck a cock to get ahead (pun intended).

I heard one of the secretly recorded incidents on the radio and yes, its creepy, pretty gross. But the hacks on radio 5 falling over themselves in their gushing condemnation (oh my word, isn't it disgusting/appalling/horrifying/simply the worst thing ever) was arguably worse.

**** all this ****. I am not falling for it again.

Bloody women :(

There was a great twitter exchange involving Jessica Chastain that summed up the hypocrisy rather nicely, I thought.

She tweeted 'I was warned from the beginning. The stories were everywhere.'. Someone asked her why she hadn't said anything and she said 'It wasn't my story to tell. That was up to the victims.'

Righto, love. :hehe:

[Peter]

There was a great twitter exchange involving Jessica Chastain that summed up the hypocrisy rather nicely, I thought.

She tweeted 'I was warned from the beginning. The stories were everywhere.'. Someone asked her why she hadn't said anything and she said 'It wasn't my story to tell. That was up to the victims.'

Righto, love. :hehe:

On the recording she has a hundred opportunities to say '**** off you old pervert, touch me and I will kill you'. she doesn't because she is secretly recording him.

I am not defending the chap, he is clearly a tosser. However.... if they were very clear in their minds that they weren't willing to do any that in return for the help he was offering it would be a simple parting of the ways. The tragedy is many of them would be willing and many others would at least consider it.

That doesn't make it right but it tells you something.....

[Burney]

On the recording she has a hundred opportunities to say '**** off you old pervert, touch me and I will kill you'. she doesn't because she is secretly recording him.

I am not defending the chap, he is clearly a tosser. However.... if they were very clear in their minds that they weren't willing to do any that in return for the help he was offering it would be a simple parting of the ways. The tragedy is many of them would be willing and many others would at least consider it.

That doesn't make it right but it tells you something.....

It sounds to me like a lot of those who knowingly and consensually took the horizontal route to stardom are now using this to rewirite history by talking tearfully of how they were 'abused' as opposed to having entered into a mutually-beneficial compact with their eyes (and legs) open.

See Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie's 'confessions' for examples of this.

[Peter]

It sounds to me like a lot of those who knowingly and consensually took the horizontal route to stardom are now using this to rewirite history by talking tearfully of how they were 'abused' as opposed to having entered into a mutually-beneficial compact with their eyes (and legs) open.

See Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie's 'confessions' for examples of this.

One small part of a growing trend of modern women showing a preference for playing the victim over embracing the notion of accountability. One can accept that one 'did what it took to get to the top' or that one was a victim of a man abusing his power. Both are arguably true.

I am afraid I see this at work all the time. Scores of women ruthlessly and shamelessly forcing their way into management roles. Once there they demonstrate a thoroughly one-dimensional view of 'responsibility' ...they embrace the power but are seemingly incapable of accepting the fact that being responsible for something entails being accountable for it going wrong. THe minute is goes wrong the finger pointing starts, the blame shifting and, inevitably, the accusations of sexism/racism/take your pick.

Accountability is a thing of the past eplaced by the idea that by definition a victim can never be to blame.

Rant over :)

[redgunamo]

It sounds to me like a lot of those who knowingly and consensually took the horizontal route to stardom are now using this to rewirite history by talking tearfully of how they were 'abused' as opposed to having entered into a mutually-beneficial compact with their eyes (and legs) open.

See Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie's 'confessions' for examples of this.

You want them to give their Oscars back? :-(

Seriously, all this sort of thing doesn't really do anybody any good, does it.

[redgunamo]

One small part of a growing trend of modern women showing a preference for playing the victim over embracing the notion of accountability. One can accept that one 'did what it took to get to the top' or that one was a victim of a man abusing his power. Both are arguably true.

I am afraid I see this at work all the time. Scores of women ruthlessly and shamelessly forcing their way into management roles. Once there they demonstrate a thoroughly one-dimensional view of 'responsibility' ...they embrace the power but are seemingly incapable of accepting the fact that being responsible for something entails being accountable for it going wrong. THe minute is goes wrong the finger pointing starts, the blame shifting and, inevitably, the accusations of sexism/racism/take your pick.

Accountability is a thing of the past eplaced by the idea that by definition a victim can never be to blame.

Rant over :)

My word, P. Have you ever considered becoming a Lefty?

[Burney]

You want them to give their Oscars back? :-(

Seriously, all this sort of thing doesn't really do anybody any good, does it.

Well they largely got them because Weinstein was infamously zealous in the Oscar campaigns on behalf of his films, so if they’re being consistent and not utterly hypocritical...yes. :shrug:

[Peter]

My word, P. Have you ever considered becoming a Lefty?

THis has nothing to do with high politics. Its the creeping social politics that Sir C is always blithering on about.

In my day only the weak willed allowed themselves to be viewed as victims. These days its a badge of honour.

In fact, it is merely an excuse.

[redgunamo]

Well they largely got them because Weinstein was infamously zealous in the Oscar campaigns on behalf of his films, so if they’re being consistent and not utterly hypocritical...yes. :shrug:

Of course, but if it's been traditional to qualify for awards that way, going back decades, where will it all end.

As I said, this sort of thing doesn't really do anybody any good.

[redgunamo]

THis has nothing to do with high politics. Its the creeping social politics that Sir C is always blithering on about.

In my day only the weak willed allowed themselves to be viewed as victims. These days its a badge of honour.

In fact, it is merely an excuse.

The high, the middle and the low politics is all one and the same thing, ain't it? At least it ought to be.

And it's not "merely" an excuse. It can be an extremely lucrative path to take, that of victimhood. That's why practically everybody is trying to get in on it.

[PSRB]

I didn't condemn Evans at the time because it seemed to me that he had an awfully strong argument that he was unjustly convicted so it seemed sensible to wait and let the judicial process complete before passing judgment.

My view of Weinstein is that there seems to be overwhelming evidence against him and his complete silence seems to suggest he's guilty. Although I wouldn't condemn him completely at this point, my point was that what he is being accused of is not just a bit of slap and tickle that can be easily dismissed, it needs to be treated seriously.

I would imagine his complete silence is down to his lawyers.

[Sir C]

THis has nothing to do with high politics. Its the creeping social politics that Sir C is always blithering on about.

In my day only the weak willed allowed themselves to be viewed as victims. These days its a badge of honour.

In fact, it is merely an excuse.

Thank you peter.

[redgunamo]

I would imagine his complete silence is down to his lawyers.

He released a statement the other day, in response to the original New York Times bombshell article. You know, about how he intends to channel his grief into bantering off the NRA or something :homer:

[Burney]

He released a statement the other day, in response to the original New York Times bombshell article. You know, about how he intends to channel his grief into bantering off the NRA or something :homer:

Of course, what he should do is claim that he’s the victim of anti-semitism - a victim of the trope of grasping, greedy Jewish plutocrats wanting to despoil innocent shiksas as a form of racial revenge.

The fact that he’s bang to rights shouldn’t stand in the way of his right to take refuge in identity politics, after all. :shrug:

[redgunamo]

Of course, what he should do is claim that he’s the victim of anti-semitism - a victim of the trope of grasping, greedy Jewish plutocrats wanting to despoil innocent shiksas as a form of racial revenge.

The fact that he’s bang to rights shouldn’t stand in the way of his right to take refuge in identity politics, after all. :shrug:

Given the curious nature of that business and that town, haven't his victims essentially been blackmailing him all this time? It's surprising he hasn't had them all done for extortion. I mean, who would go to Hollywood without the promise of lurid sexual escapades#Asking4It

[Sir C]

However, I'm somewhat cynical about the claims of those who felt 'violated' because he opned the door of his hotel room wearing a dressing gown. There seems to me to be an element of overreaction here.

It would appear that hyperbole is the new reason.

Fúcking hell, now his wife's left him! There's loyalty.

[redgunamo]

Fúcking hell, now his wife's left him! There's loyalty.

Oh, that's fair enough, I think. It seems clear he actually "left" her decades ago, after all.

[Peter]

Fúcking hell, now his wife's left him! There's loyalty.


Perfect opportunity for her to get the best financial settlement out of the divorce.

[Peter]

Of course, what he should do is claim that he’s the victim of anti-semitism - a victim of the trope of grasping, greedy Jewish plutocrats wanting to despoil innocent shiksas as a form of racial revenge.

The fact that he’s bang to rights shouldn’t stand in the way of his right to take refuge in identity politics, after all. :shrug:

I would have thought he could drag the rest of Hollywood down with him. The threat of that is normally enough to put something like this to bed, as long as you threaten before it goes public.

[Ash]

I would have thought he could drag the rest of Hollywood down with him.

That would be superb.

[Peter]

That would be superb.


It would at least be fair and consistent. And I still wouldn't care. Hollywood doesnt purport to be a fair, just, diverse and inclusive environment or a meritocratic industry. Quite how one vacuous celebrity comes to receive more attention than another is of literally no interest to me.

The funny thing is they will never get round to going after the music industry because the young girls blowing the rock bands were not being promised anything in return. Its fine to treat them like **** and tell them to **** off afterwards but if you promise them anything in return its suddenly coercion/abuse of power/rape. If you think about it, that is a bit ****ed up.

[Burney]

It would at least be fair and consistent. And I still wouldn't care. Hollywood doesnt purport to be a fair, just, diverse and inclusive environment or a meritocratic industry. Quite how one vacuous celebrity comes to receive more attention than another is of literally no interest to me.

The funny thing is they will never get round to going after the music industry because the young girls blowing the rock bands were not being promised anything in return. Its fine to treat them like **** and tell them to **** off afterwards but if you promise them anything in return its suddenly coercion/abuse of power/rape. If you think about it, that is a bit ****ed up.

:nod: An excellent point, p. During Yewtree, legend has it that Bill Wyman, Jimmy Page and various others lawyered up and rocked up to their local plod trying to pre-empt the long arm of the law. To a man, they were told to go forth and sin no more because old rockers fvcking schoolchildren wasn't the crime du jour and - by the way - could you sign my copy of Houses Of The Holy, Mr Page?

[Ash]

The funny thing is they will never get round to going after the music industry because the young girls blowing the rock bands were not being promised anything in return. Its fine to treat them like **** and tell them to **** off afterwards but if you promise them anything in return its suddenly coercion/abuse of power/rape. If you think about it, that is a bit ****ed up.

Erm, the groupies didn't expect to get married to their targets. They just fancied the socks of them and wanted some fun. No comparison at all, as long as they're old enough.

And not promising anything is precisely the point. It makes it merely consensual sex and not an abuse of power.

[World's End Stella]

It would at least be fair and consistent. And I still wouldn't care. Hollywood doesnt purport to be a fair, just, diverse and inclusive environment or a meritocratic industry. Quite how one vacuous celebrity comes to receive more attention than another is of literally no interest to me.

The funny thing is they will never get round to going after the music industry because the young girls blowing the rock bands were not being promised anything in return. Its fine to treat them like **** and tell them to **** off afterwards but if you promise them anything in return its suddenly coercion/abuse of power/rape. If you think about it, that is a bit ****ed up.

That depends on what you offer them.

[Burney]

Fúcking hell, now his wife's left him! There's loyalty.

Well I somehow doubt it was his charm, good looks or sweet personality she was hanging around for. Now he's on the ground and toxic, she can name her figure in the divorce proceedings (or else I'll wash even more dirty laundry in public) and off she will jolly well fvck.

At this level of wealth and celebrity, absolutely everything is a commodity. There is no decency anywhere.

[Burney]

Erm, the groupies didn't expect to get married to their targets. They just fancied the socks of them and wanted some fun. No comparison at all, as long as they're old enough.

And not promising anything is precisely the point. It makes it merely consensual sex and not an abuse of power.

Because consensual sex can never involve an abuse of power? :rubchin:

[Ash]

Because consensual sex can never involve an abuse of power? :rubchin:

It can do, but shouldn't automatically be assumed. It treats grown women (and I am talking about adults here) as children to deny them their agency and ability to consent.

Totally different from promising a career in exchange for sex.

[Burney]

It can do, but shouldn't automatically be assumed. It treats grown women (and I am talking about adults here) as children to deny them their agency and ability to consent.

Totally different from promising a career in exchange for sex.

But surely such a transactional arrangement falls entirely within the boundaries of agency and consent you outline? Each party has something the other wants and an exchange is made - where’s the problem?

[Peter]

Erm, the groupies didn't expect to get married to their targets. They just fancied the socks of them and wanted some fun. No comparison at all, as long as they're old enough.

And not promising anything is precisely the point. It makes it merely consensual sex and not an abuse of power.

Right, but one important point was that in a lot of cases they were NOT old enough.

I accept the abuse of power is largely predicated on the notion of quid pro quo (not that I am suggesting that The Quo got up to any of this stuff) but my general point is that much of this is around perception rather than law. Treating a 16 year old girl like **** while she blows a band she idolises is pretty reprehensible behaviour. Rock seems to have some form of immunity from our collective frowns....

[Monty92]

Well I somehow doubt it was his charm, good looks or sweet personality she was hanging around for. Now he's on the ground and toxic, she can name her figure in the divorce proceedings (or else I'll wash even more dirty laundry in public) and off she will jolly well fvck.

At this level of wealth and celebrity, absolutely everything is a commodity. There is no decency anywhere.

ddddddddddd

[Peter]

It can do, but shouldn't automatically be assumed. It treats grown women (and I am talking about adults here) as children to deny them their agency and ability to consent.

Totally different from promising a career in exchange for sex.

Its a bit of a leap to assume these girls were happy to do all of the things they were asked to. What about the many, many stories of what they were sometimes asked to do just to get backstage and hang with the band? I doubt many were that desperate to blow the road crew.

The transaction relates to getting to hang with the band backstage as long as you are prepared to offer whatever sexual treats were demanded.

[Burney]

ddddddddddd

Fair enough. Then she liked the power and influence being married to him brought. Association with him no longer has any benefits, so she bails.
After all, it’s not like we’re pretending she didn’t know, are we? :shrug:

[redgunamo]

I would have thought he could drag the rest of Hollywood down with him. The threat of that is normally enough to put something like this to bed, as long as you threaten before it goes public.

Down where though? It's Hollywood :shrug:

[Luis Anaconda]

Down where though? It's Hollywood :shrug:

:hehe: was precisely what I was going to say

[redgunamo]

Perfect opportunity for her to get the best financial settlement out of the divorce.

Yes, but that's not particularly "modern", is it. It's more commonly known as wanting to have your cake and eat it too, I think.

So far as I can see, it's actually the main reason women will never rule the world :-)

[eastgermanautos]

Indeed. These women were offered a career fast track and are now complaining about it.

There is no pleasing some people.

I guess there's the rub. If they did put out and then did not get anything. That too is commonplace.

[Ash]

But surely such a transactional arrangement falls entirely within the boundaries of agency and consent you outline? Each party has something the other wants and an exchange is made - where’s the problem?

The problem is that women are expected to be prostitutes to advance a career other than prostitution.

[redgunamo]

The problem is that women are expected to be prostitutes to advance a career other than prostitution.

Not just dollies, A. Unless you've missed the ongoing sex abuse investigations in football, I suppose. Of course, it's the modern convention but I'm not certain divvying the various victims up into factions is terribly helpful.

[redgunamo]

I guess there's the rub. If they did put out and then did not get anything. That too is commonplace.

Developments surrounding the Streep woman will be fascinating. Surely failure to give up all her Academy awards would amount to an admission .. of sorts.

[eastgermanautos]

Of course, what he should do is claim that he’s the victim of anti-semitism - a victim of the trope of grasping, greedy Jewish plutocrats wanting to despoil innocent shiksas as a form of racial revenge.

The fact that he’s bang to rights shouldn’t stand in the way of his right to take refuge in identity politics, after all. :shrug:

Seriously what the hell are you talking about. I would simply like a translation of this gobbledy.

[redgunamo]

I guess there's the rub. If they did put out and then did not get anything. That too is commonplace.

What whispers are you hearing, e? Is it personal; I mean, why right now?