Excellent. Seems the media has decided it's going to pretend to be morally outraged

[Burney]

by Ben Stokes doing an impression of Harvey Price. :rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/story/video-emerges-of-ben-stokes-appearing-to-mimic-katie-prices-disabled-son-harvey-11058367

There is absolutely no way he's going to Australia, is there? :-(

[Ash]

by Ben Stokes doing an impression of Harvey Price. :rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/story/video-emerges-of-ben-stokes-appearing-to-mimic-katie-prices-disabled-son-harvey-11058367

There is absolutely no way he's going to Australia, is there? :-(

Presumably this was known about before the caper the other night. I expect they have dirt on everybody waiting for the right moment to cash in on it.

[Peter]

by Ben Stokes doing an impression of Harvey Price. :rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/story/video-emerges-of-ben-stokes-appearing-to-mimic-katie-prices-disabled-son-harvey-11058367

There is absolutely no way he's going to Australia, is there? :-(

I would argue his impression of her is more offensive. I would also argue that he isn't taking the piss out of the kid's disability, more the fact that he said **** on telly which, of course, is pretty funny.

So now we will have a stream of arseholes parading up and down about values and deploring the lad for a joke made in a pub. He needs to wheel out these benders that he was defending in the brawl so he can claim knock for knock with the equality police.

No, he isn't going to Australia. We are utterly, utterly ****ed (we possibly were anyway).

[Peter]

Presumably this was known about before the caper the other night. I expect they have dirt on everybody waiting for the right moment to cash in on it.

This seems to have been taken by one of his mates. It should never have seen the light of day. Someone close to him has stitched him up.

[Burney]

This seems to have been taken by one of his mates. It should never have seen the light of day. Someone close to him has stitched him up.

I'm guessing his mate took it and then shared it with others, so it needn't necessarily be anyone close to him.

[Pokster]

I'm guessing his mate took it and then shared it with others, so it needn't necessarily be anyone close to him.

Well he has shown that he is as thick as pig ****, he has previous and doesn't seem to learn... so *******s to him, he won't go to Oz and he has probably helped **** up his future career

[Burney]

Well he has shown that he is as thick as pig ****, he has previous and doesn't seem to learn... so *******s to him, he won't go to Oz and he has probably helped **** up his future career

He has previous for what? Being a young man with a taste for drink and misbehaviour? I don't remember being a saint in my 20s, either, to be honest. :shrug:

I think there's more than a hint of sanctimony about here.

[Pokster]

He has previous for what? Being a young man with a taste for drink and misbehaviour? I don't remember being a saint in my 20s, either, to be honest. :shrug:

I think there's more than a hint of sanctimony about here.

As a high profile sportsman he has to behave in a way that normal blokes don't, that will have been told to him over and over by management and some of the "experts" now employed by national teams. So basically it is his own fault and he deserves all he gets

[Burney]

As a high profile sportsman he has to behave in a way that normal blokes don't, that will have been told to him over and over by management and some of the "experts" now employed by national teams. So basically it is his own fault and he deserves all he gets

But he only 'has' to behave like that in order to avoid sanctimonious, hypocritical finger-wagging of exactly the type you're currently indulging in. :shrug:

[Pokster]

But he only 'has' to behave like that in order to avoid sanctimonious, hypocritical finger-wagging of exactly the type you're currently indulging in. :shrug:

As SW says, if he was a foootballer he would be given even more grief than he has so far.

Do you think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour after this?

So you think knocking some bloke out while he was backing away is "normal" behaviour???

If it wasn't an England player and we were about to play the Ashes you wouldn't be getting your knickers in a twist

[PSRB]

He has previous for what? Being a young man with a taste for drink and misbehaviour? I don't remember being a saint in my 20s, either, to be honest. :shrug:

I think there's more than a hint of sanctimony about here.

or my 30's :-\

[Burney]

As SW says, if he was a foootballer he would be given even more grief than he has so far.

Do you think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour after this?

So you think knocking some bloke out while he was backing away is "normal" behaviour???

If it wasn't an England player and we were about to play the Ashes you wouldn't be getting your knickers in a twist

I doubt he would, actually. If he were a footballer, it would be expected and a bit meh. It's precisely because he's a cricketer that this is unusual.

I think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour because he hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet and because - even if he is - it's not actually that big a deal. I wouldn't say knocking people out is 'normal', but if every bloke who as a young man has got pïssed and punched someone were to be convicted for it and have their professional life blighted for it, we'd have an awful lot of criminal records knocking about. Getting into fights isn't particularly clever or dignified, but it happens, has always happened and will always happen. Throwing our hands up in horror about this one instance of something you can see in any town centre on a Friday night is just silly.

[Luis Anaconda]

As SW says, if he was a foootballer he would be given even more grief than he has so far.
This is just specious *******s to be honest. He's plastered all over the papers - effectively been tried in the kangaroo court of public opinion and given a right metaphorical kicking. Some people have stood up for him - almost exactly what would have happened if he was a footballer
Do you think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour after this?
Yep
So you think knocking some bloke out while he was backing away is "normal" behaviour???
In Bristol, yes
If it wasn't an England player and we were about to play the Ashes you wouldn't be getting your knickers in a twist
No. :vsign: We need him

[Pokster]

I doubt he would, actually. If he were a footballer, it would be expected and a bit meh. It's precisely because he's a cricketer that this is unusual.

I think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour because he hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet and because - even if he is - it's not actually that big a deal. I wouldn't say knocking people out is 'normal', but if every bloke who as a young man has got pïssed and punched someone were to be convicted for it and have their professional life blighted for it, we'd have an awful lot of criminal records knocking about. Getting into fights isn't particularly clever or dignified, but it happens, has always happened and will always happen. Throwing our hands up in horror about this one instance of something you can see in any town centre on a Friday night is just silly.

GLWTP imo....

[Peter]

I doubt he would, actually. If he were a footballer, it would be expected and a bit meh. It's precisely because he's a cricketer that this is unusual.

I think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour because he hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet and because - even if he is - it's not actually that big a deal. I wouldn't say knocking people out is 'normal', but if every bloke who as a young man has got pïssed and punched someone were to be convicted for it and have their professional life blighted for it, we'd have an awful lot of criminal records knocking about. Getting into fights isn't particularly clever or dignified, but it happens, has always happened and will always happen. Throwing our hands up in horror about this one instance of something you can see in any town centre on a Friday night is just silly.


Can we just get real for a moment. If this were england's best footballer and the competition coming up was a World Cup there is no ****ing way the player would end up missing it over this incident. A footballer would be playing for his club this weekend.

I dont like him smacking the geezer when he was backing away but.....it appears this chap was threatening some gay men, wielded a bottle and there are also separate reports of them trying to start fights elsewhere earlier in the night.

If all of that is true, and I stress IF, then the chap deserved a kicking and can consider himself fortunate it wasnt a lot worse.

I have little sympathy for him. Stokes's needs to appreciate he cant get himself in these situations and needs to grow up. But the guy on the floor worthy facial injuries- **** him.

[SWv2]

I doubt he would, actually. If he were a footballer, it would be expected and a bit meh. It's precisely because he's a cricketer that this is unusual.

I think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour because he hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet and because - even if he is - it's not actually that big a deal. I wouldn't say knocking people out is 'normal', but if every bloke who as a young man has got pïssed and punched someone were to be convicted for it and have their professional life blighted for it, we'd have an awful lot of criminal records knocking about. Getting into fights isn't particularly clever or dignified, but it happens, has always happened and will always happen. Throwing our hands up in horror about this one instance of something you can see in any town centre on a Friday night is just silly.

Indeed.

I am tempted to add "end of" in order to bring this debate to a conclusion.

[redgunamo]

I doubt he would, actually. If he were a footballer, it would be expected and a bit meh. It's precisely because he's a cricketer that this is unusual.

I think he should be allowed to go on the Ashes tour because he hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet and because - even if he is - it's not actually that big a deal. I wouldn't say knocking people out is 'normal', but if every bloke who as a young man has got pïssed and punched someone were to be convicted for it and have their professional life blighted for it, we'd have an awful lot of criminal records knocking about. Getting into fights isn't particularly clever or dignified, but it happens, has always happened and will always happen. Throwing our hands up in horror about this one instance of something you can see in any town centre on a Friday night is just silly.

No, his professional life will not be blighted, will it. He's got pots of money already and no-one has suggested he be hounded from the game forever, have they. He can still play IPL, I suppose, or do some punditing.

Damn silly business though, and a shame, but representing your country, in any capacity, is a privilege, not a right.

[redgunamo]

Can we just get real for a moment. If this were england's best footballer and the competition coming up was a World Cup there is no ****ing way the player would end up missing it over this incident. A footballer would be playing for his club this weekend.

Well, obviously; football, and footballers, is worth alot more money than cricket. Punish the miscreant, not everyone else.

[Luis Anaconda]

Can we just get real for a moment. If this were england's best footballer and the competition coming up was a World Cup there is no ****ing way the player would end up missing it over this incident. A footballer would be playing for his club this weekend.

I dont like him smacking the geezer when he was backing away but.....it appears this chap was threatening some gay men, wielded a bottle and there are also separate reports of them trying to start fights elsewhere earlier in the night.

If all of that is true, and I stress IF, then the chap deserved a kicking and can consider himself fortunate it wasnt a lot worse.

I have little sympathy for him. Stokes's needs to appreciate he cant get himself in these situations and needs to grow up. But the guy on the floor worthy facial injuries- **** him.

Happened in rugby (sort of) with Manu Tuilagi missing out on a home world cup at that. He had been charged and pleaded guilty admittedly (pleaded guilty to get the charge out of the way before said world cup but got kicked out anyway).

[Peter]

Happened in rugby (sort of) with Manu Tuilagi missing out on a home world cup at that. He had been charged and pleaded guilty admittedly (pleaded guilty to get the charge out of the way before said world cup but got kicked out anyway).

Some **** is going to wheel out the one argument that really gets me wound up- that these people are role models and should act like it. What sort of example is this for our kids etc??

Utter nonsense.

[Luis Anaconda]

Some **** is going to wheel out the one argument that really gets me wound up- that these people are role models and should act like it. What sort of example is this for our kids etc??

Utter nonsense.

I think Pokster already did that - are you calling him a ****?

Just seen the same argument re Delle Alli and the ban for using the finger. Now of course he was naughty and deserved a slap on the wrist but if people see him as a role model for their children they are ****s of the highest order

[Peter]

I think Pokster already did that - are you calling him a ****?

Just seen the same argument re Delle Alli and the ban for using the finger. Now of course he was naughty and deserved a slap on the wrist but if people see him as a role model for their children they are ****s of the highest order

Exactly. The problem with seeing these people as role models is quite obviously that they aren't. Or, at the very least, they are very, very bad ones. Who decided that if you want to be a professional footballer you also have to be a great role model for kids? What if you are a brilliant footballer but a right ****?

I was given good and bad examples as a kid and encouraged to identify the difference. Surely that isn't rocket science.

Just out of interest, the Willie Young tackle in the 1980 Cup Final. My dad lectured me for ages on how it wasnt the right thing to do and I simply wouldn't accept it. I was 16 by the time he admitted that of course it was the right thing to do but he didnt want to tell me that as a kid.

[Pokster]

I think Pokster already did that - are you calling him a ****?

Just seen the same argument re Delle Alli and the ban for using the finger. Now of course he was naughty and deserved a slap on the wrist but if people see him as a role model for their children they are ****s of the highest order

He's not a role model... just a dickhead

[redgunamo]

Exactly. The problem with seeing these people as role models is quite obviously that they aren't. Or, at the very least, they are very, very bad ones. Who decided that if you want to be a professional footballer you also have to be a great role model for kids? What if you are a brilliant footballer but a right ****?

I was given good and bad examples as a kid and encouraged to identify the difference. Surely that isn't rocket science.

Just out of interest, the Willie Young tackle in the 1980 Cup Final. My dad lectured me for ages on how it wasnt the right thing to do and I simply wouldn't accept it. I was 16 by the time he admitted that of course it was the right thing to do but he didnt want to tell me that as a kid.

Sure, your old man did the right thing. It didn't work though, did it.

[redgunamo]

He's not a role model... just a dickhead

Are you a role model, P?

[redgunamo]

I think Pokster already did that - are you calling him a ****?

Just seen the same argument re Delle Alli and the ban for using the finger. Now of course he was naughty and deserved a slap on the wrist but if people see him as a role model for their children they are ****s of the highest order

No, the trouble here is yous are all looking at the thing from the homo, women's lib angle. You know, "Who cares if he discovered a cure for cancer; last week, he didn't separate his rubbish into the correct containers as provided!"

He's got a job he loves and that he's very good at, and he makes millions. Nobody should want or need any more of a role model than that.

[Pokster]

Are you a role model, P?

Hopefully only to my kids

[eastgermanautos]

Exactly. The problem with seeing these people as role models is quite obviously that they aren't. Or, at the very least, they are very, very bad ones. Who decided that if you want to be a professional footballer you also have to be a great role model for kids? What if you are a brilliant footballer but a right ****?

I was given good and bad examples as a kid and encouraged to identify the difference. Surely that isn't rocket science.

Just out of interest, the Willie Young tackle in the 1980 Cup Final. My dad lectured me for ages on how it wasnt the right thing to do and I simply wouldn't accept it. I was 16 by the time he admitted that of course it was the right thing to do but he didnt want to tell me that as a kid.

Don't quite agree. First of all, they're only borderline adults. They're guys who are like 20-23. They're therefore in a position of being the big brother vis a vis kids. And because football is a game played in childhood, they represent the successful fulfillment of a childhood dream. Therefore, with all that being said, hold it together. They should acknowledge this role and be subject to fines if they act stupid. If you're just a guy of that age walking around London, fine, do what you want.

[Peter]

Hopefully only to my kids

Right. And that should be the only role model they need. You are almost certainly the only one they can rely on. Precisely as it should be.

[redgunamo]

Don't quite agree. First of all, they're only borderline adults. They're guys who are like 20-23. They're therefore in a position of being the big brother vis a vis kids. And because football is a game played in childhood, they represent the successful fulfillment of a childhood dream. Therefore, with all that being said, hold it together. They should acknowledge this role and be subject to fines if they act stupid. If you're just a guy of that age walking around London, fine, do what you want.

No, they only forfeit, or risk, future earnings, not their livelihoods. Same as anybody else.

Whether you anchor the batting for England or you're a transgender who wants to join the CAG, representing your country is a privilege, and not a right. Thousands of people are rejected or overlooked for their preferred role all the time, and for many different reasons.

[redgunamo]

Right. And that should be the only role model they need. You are almost certainly the only one they can rely on. Precisely as it should be.

I thought you were a lefty? What about children with rubbish parents :-(

[Peter]

No, they only forfeit, or risk, future earnings, not their livelihoods. Same as anybody else.

Whether you anchor the batting for England or you're a transgender who wants to join the CAG, representing your country is a privilege, and not a right. Thousands of people are rejected or overlooked for their preferred role all the time, and for many different reasons.

THats because they are **** at what they do. This guy is ****ing good and we need him.

[Peter]

I thought you were a lefty? What about children with rubbish parents :-(

THey are ****ed and their parents are to blame. I dont see why it suddenly becomes Rio Ferdinand's job to bring up your kids (bad example I suppose as he is probably a pretty good role model).

[redgunamo]

THey are ****ed and their parents are to blame. I dont see why it suddenly becomes Rio Ferdinand's job to bring up your kids (bad example I suppose as he is probably a pretty good role model).

It's obvious, isn't it. Bad parents need an excuse, any excuse, and Poor old Rio will do. After all, he gets paid enough, doesn't he.

[Peter]

It's obvious, isn't it. Bad parents need an excuse, any excuse, and Poor old Rio will do. After all, he gets paid enough, doesn't he.

Precisely. So why shape the world to help bad parents? Leave Rio alone!

[redgunamo]

THats because they are **** at what they do. This guy is ****ing good and we need him.

If by "we", you mean cricket lovers, England supporters, then yes, I agree. However, most of the people that pay Stokes' wages couldn't give a stuff about England. Or probably even cricket. Unfortunately, and unforgivably, it is them he has fallen foul of. He who pays the piper and a' that.

[redgunamo]

Precisely. So why shape the world to help bad parents? Leave Rio alone!

Don't ask me, Peter; you're the lefty :shrug:

[Peter]

If by "we", you mean cricket lovers, England supporters, then yes, I agree. However, most of the people that pay Stokes' wages couldn't give a stuff about England. Or probably even cricket. Unfortunately, and unforgivably, it is them he has fallen foul of. He who pays the piper and a' that.

I mean everyone who loves their country. Anyone who doesnt, get that son of a bitch outta here, he's fired!

[Peter]

Don't ask me, Peter; you're the lefty :shrug:

You are a very difficult man to agree with.

[redgunamo]

You are a very difficult man to agree with.

You're too kind. You're a very difficult man to agree with too :-)

[redgunamo]

I mean everyone who loves their country. Anyone who doesnt, get that son of a bitch outta here, he's fired!

You may scoff, but that was another masterstroke from the Donald; lots of the right sort will heartily agree with his position.

[Burney]

If by "we", you mean cricket lovers, England supporters, then yes, I agree. However, most of the people that pay Stokes' wages couldn't give a stuff about England. Or probably even cricket. Unfortunately, and unforgivably, it is them he has fallen foul of. He who pays the piper and a' that.

I was out buying a new bed the other day and there was one model that had a big cutout of Joe Root next to it. I was momentarily very confused. What has Joe Root got to do with mattresses?

Anyway, I didn't buy it. It was one of these memory foam abortions. Can't be doing with them.

[Burney]

You may scoff, but that was another masterstroke from the Donald; lots of the right sort will heartily agree with his position.

I rather liked his speech to the UN, too. Sticking up for the nation state in front of all those ghastly no borders types. Good on him imo.

And let's face it: there ought to be a country called Nambia.

[redgunamo]

I was out buying a new bed the other day and there was one model that had a big cutout of Joe Root next to it. I was momentarily very confused. What has Joe Root got to do with mattresses?

Anyway, I didn't buy it. It was one of these memory foam abortions. Can't be doing with them.

So long as you realise and are comfortable with, the fact that your rather, if I may say, selfish and short-sighted behaviour on this may have just cost us the Ashes :-|

[redgunamo]

I rather liked his speech to the UN, too. Sticking up for the nation state in front of all those ghastly no borders types. Good on him imo.

And let's face it: there ought to be a country called Nambia.

:hehe: Especially as most people wouldn't actually know if there already was or not.

[Burney]

So long as you realise and are comfortable with, the fact that your rather, if I may say, selfish and short-sighted behaviour on this may have just cost us the Ashes :-|

I have made my bed*. I shall lie on it.

*Not strictly true. Sealy made the mattress, I think.

[redgunamo]

I have made my bed*. I shall lie on it.

*Not strictly true. Sealy made the mattress, I think.

Good old Les.

I probably won't tune in to it anyway. Every other person on TMS nowadays is some woman or other, trying to ̶f̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶m̶e̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶r̶i̶c̶k̶e̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶a̶t̶s̶ promote the ladies' game :-|

[Peter]

You may scoff, but that was another masterstroke from the Donald; lots of the right sort will heartily agree with his position.

Who exactly are the right sort?

I assume that you mean it makes him look like an ignorant arsehole. I do wonder how much longer this 'masterstroke' will carry on working.

[redgunamo]

Who exactly are the right sort?

I assume that you mean it makes him look like an ignorant arsehole. I do wonder how much longer this 'masterstroke' will carry on working.

People who might vote for him obviously. I'm an ignorant arsehole myself; I don't do name-calling.

Anyway, nobody knows the future, I think.

[Peter]

People who might vote for him obviously. I'm an ignorant arsehole myself; I don't do name-calling.

Anyway, nobody knows the future, I think.

Playing to the base works in times of trouble. It doesnt get you elected. Apart from with Trump, where it did.

I think the point is that he hasn't actually done any of the things he said he would- the things that got him elected. This might explain the lowest approval rating in history more than his rather oafish behaviour.

Build a wall and brings some heavy industry jobs back. If he does that, he can say what he likes.

I wasnt calling you an ignorant arsehole. I have no idea what you mean half the time so I couldn't possibly think you were ignorant ;)

[redgunamo]

Playing to the base works in times of trouble. It doesnt get you elected. Apart from with Trump, where it did.

I think the point is that he hasn't actually done any of the things he said he would- the things that got him elected. This might explain the lowest approval rating in history more than his rather oafish behaviour.

Build a wall and brings some heavy industry jobs back. If he does that, he can say what he likes.

I wasnt calling you an ignorant arsehole. I have no idea what you mean half the time so I couldn't possibly think you were ignorant ;)

After the last two and a half years, you still think the Donald was elected for his policies?

In a word; lol.

[Peter]

After the last two and a half years, you still think the Donald was elected for his policies?

In a word; lol.

You dont think it was a factor in winning Pennsylvania, Ohio? Lol indeed. If you can call empty promises and vague ideas 'policies'

[Donald]

You dont think it was a factor in winning Pennsylvania, Ohio? Lol indeed. If you can call empty promises and vague ideas 'policies'

I suggest you refrain from making assumptions upon which you have no intel or knowledge!

[Peter]

I suggest you refrain from making assumptions upon which you have no intel or knowledge!

Shut it, Dotard!

[eastgermanautos]

No, they only forfeit, or risk, future earnings, not their livelihoods. Same as anybody else.

Whether you anchor the batting for England or you're a transgender who wants to join the CAG, representing your country is a privilege, and not a right. Thousands of people are rejected or overlooked for their preferred role all the time, and for many different reasons.

Oh come, now, we all know that public morality is an elastic thing. Look at Floyd Mayweather. A convicted wife beater, and the people love him. Well, love is perhaps too strong; but they let him slide. Boys will be boys, and hopefully the girls are not savage femonazis trying to embarrass and disrespect them.

[redgunamo]

You dont think it was a factor in winning Pennsylvania, Ohio? Lol indeed. If you can call empty promises and vague ideas 'policies'

Yes. I think the trouble here is you're looking at the thing from the point of view of somebody who is actually interested, engaged, in the political process. This puts you at odds with the overwhelming majority of voters, especially as and when you insist upon depicting smart people, such as yourselves, as representative of the demographic group to which they happen to belong. We've already seen that the Donald has proved able to cut through that (basically, he is poll-proof), and he's just done it again over this NFL kerfuffle.

If you insist though; do you really think those states imagine they would have been better off under Hillary? After all, both of them are jumping with "Deplorables", aren't they, and their nasty, dirty coal mines and steel mills. Why are the Donald's empty promises and vague ideas any worse than his opponent's, especially as he's not even a so called "real" politician?

Most importantly though, he speaks proudly and lovingly to America in exactly the way your sort is terribly, acutely, embarrassed to do. So far that's proved to be enough*; who's to say it won't be again.


*Though if anyone's actually bothered to check, his legislative performance so far has actually been fairly solid and substantial, albeit not spectacular.

[redgunamo]

Oh come, now, we all know that public morality is an elastic thing. Look at Floyd Mayweather. A convicted wife beater, and the people love him. Well, love is perhaps too strong; but they let him slide. Boys will be boys, and hopefully the girls are not savage femonazis trying to embarrass and disrespect them.

You're right, of course, but surely those rules are the same for everyone, aren't they? I mean, even a postman from Swindon would have to expect a certain amount of public grief if he was filmed drunkenly brawling outside a nightclub in the small hours of the night?