Not really sure why everyone's acting all shocked about the AfD gains in Germany.

[Burney]

I was in Rostock last week and, simply by seeing the amount of support in the form of posters and graffiti there it was clear they were going to make hay. No surprise, either, that they did better in the poorer and less squeamish former GDR than in the wealthier, more liberal west.

It's almost as if unilaterally inviting a few million young, unemployed immigrant men into your country is going to produce a backlash, isn't it? Who'd have thought, eh? :rubchin:

[Peter]

I was in Rostock last week and, simply by seeing the amount of support in the form of posters and graffiti there it was clear they were going to make hay. No surprise, either, that they did better in the poorer and less squeamish former GDR than in the wealthier, more liberal west.

It's almost as if unilaterally inviting a few million young, unemployed immigrant men into your country is going to produce a backlash, isn't it? Who'd have thought, eh? :rubchin:

To be fair, they are not invited in as unemployed people ;) At least let them arrive and try to find a job

[Burney]

To be fair, they are not invited in as unemployed people ;) At least let them arrive and try to find a job

Well as of November last year, only 13% of them had found work. This is pretty ironic, given that one of the excuses for letting them in was to bolster Germany's dwindling industrial workforce. :shrug:

[Peter]

Well as of November last year, only 13% of them had found work. This is pretty ironic, given that one of the excuses for letting them in was to bolster Germany's dwindling industrial workforce. :shrug:

Racist employers? They do have a bit of form in this area, the Krauts :)

Its not really ironic though, is it?

[Pat Vegas]

I was in Rostock last week and, simply by seeing the amount of support in the form of posters and graffiti there it was clear they were going to make hay. No surprise, either, that they did better in the poorer and less squeamish former GDR than in the wealthier, more liberal west.

It's almost as if unilaterally inviting a few million young, unemployed immigrant men into your country is going to produce a backlash, isn't it? Who'd have thought, eh? :rubchin:

when I think AFD I think

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ74Xazggc_LwJG0rrNkEkLneqMUOuF8 DjaoMPPyEKBXlxx8DTa

[Burney]

Racist employers? They do have a bit of form in this area, the Krauts :)

Its not really ironic though, is it?

The average middle-class German these days is pathetically desperate NOT to be be racist. They fall over themselves to be nice about migrants, even when they clearly know damn well that the whole thing was an unmitigated fùck up.

I was talking to one the other day and I said that, from the outside looking in, Merkel's decision looked crazy. He agreed that it was crazy, but that at the time he'd supported it because he'd liked the idea of Germany being seen as the good guy. They're all blackmailed by their history, basically.

[Peter]

The average middle-class German these days is pathetically desperate NOT to be be racist. They fall over themselves to be nice about migrants, even when they clearly know damn well that the whole thing was an unmitigated fùck up.

I was talking to one the other day and I said that, from the outside looking in, Merkel's decision looked crazy. He agreed that it was crazy, but that at the time he'd supported it because he'd liked the idea of Germany being seen as the good guy. They're all blackmailed by their history, basically.

Similar to us. Post imperial guilt and all that.

Why are you spending so much time hanging out with the Hun?

[Burney]

Similar to us. Post imperial guilt and all that.

Why are you spending so much time hanging out with the Hun?

I have to go there on business more than I'd like. It's alright, but I do find it hard to warm to them.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Well as of November last year, only 13% of them had found work. This is pretty ironic, given that one of the excuses for letting them in was to bolster Germany's dwindling industrial workforce. :shrug:

13%?! I think only 500 of the 160,000 we got in 2015 had found work a year after.

[Peter]

I have to go there on business more than I'd like. It's alright, but I do find it hard to warm to them.

The beer is good. I had to go to a lunch with 12 of them once in Berlin. They are not funny. I find this very difficult to deal with.

I hate eating with people at the best of times but this was torture. One of them told a racist joke that I still don't understand.

[Burney]

13%?! I think only 500 of the 160,000 we got in 2015 had found work a year after.

Yes, well Sweden has the dubious honour of being the only country in Europe even more insane about migrants than Germany. You got in the absolute dregs as well. Somalians and Afghans - not nationalities noted for their love of the rule of law or commitment to non-violence. :hehe:

[Burney]

The beer is good. I had to go to a lunch with 12 of them once in Berlin. They are not funny. I find this very difficult to deal with.

I hate eating with people at the best of times but this was torture. One of them told a racist joke that I still don't understand.

The beer is good, but all the pilsener basically tastes the same due to having identical ingredients. And I can't stand Weissbier or dunkelbier. For that reason, I tend to get bored of German beer fairly quickly.

The Germans do have a sense of humour, but it's not exactly subtle.

[Monty92]

The beer is good, but all the pilsener basically tastes the same due to having identical ingredients. And I can't stand Weissbier or dunkelbier. For that reason, I tend to get bored of German beer fairly quickly.

The Germans do have a sense of humour, but it's not exactly subtle.

Weissbier is pretty much the only type of beer that I genuinely like the taste of :-(

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

The average middle-class German these days is pathetically desperate NOT to be be racist. They fall over themselves to be nice about migrants, even when they clearly know damn well that the whole thing was an unmitigated fùck up.

I was talking to one the other day and I said that, from the outside looking in, Merkel's decision looked crazy. He agreed that it was crazy, but that at the time he'd supported it because he'd liked the idea of Germany being seen as the good guy. They're all blackmailed by their history, basically.

anecdotal evidence beneath you b. Anyone who didn't know you might think you were dabbling in dubious reportage.

[Burney]

anecdotal evidence beneath you b. Anyone who didn't know you might think you were dabbling in dubious reportage.

Eh? So I oughtn't to report a conversation I had with a German in Germany about Germany because it may not be representative of every single German?

Bòllocks.

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

wrong place :-)

[Herbert Augustus Chapman]

13%?! I think only 500 of the 160,000 we got in 2015 had found work a year after.

And people who are characterised by indolence and avarice must invariably resort to crime; the only pursuit that can simultaneously satisfy both traits.

I've become a racist haven't I :-(

[eastgermanautos]

I was in Rostock last week and, simply by seeing the amount of support in the form of posters and graffiti there it was clear they were going to make hay. No surprise, either, that they did better in the poorer and less squeamish former GDR than in the wealthier, more liberal west.

It's almost as if unilaterally inviting a few million young, unemployed immigrant men into your country is going to produce a backlash, isn't it? Who'd have thought, eh? :rubchin:

This news item was tailor-made for you, wasn't it? Thank you, German elections.

And yet, when you look at Germany, this whole immigrant crisis has been a net gain for them. *They are no longer the international pariah; they've behaved well, with humanitarian concern. It means that they have moral superiority again, which is something they've lacked for seventy years. Unfortunately, my good old US of A has sacrificed hers. We're the would-be Nazis, unfort. We lose, the Germans gain. You British also lose with your Brexit, I expect. :-/

[Burney]

This news item was tailor-made for you, wasn't it? Thank you, German elections.

And yet, when you look at Germany, this whole immigrant crisis has been a net gain for them. *They are no longer the international pariah; they've behaved well, with humanitarian concern. It means that they have moral superiority again, which is something they've lacked for seventy years. Unfortunately, my good old US of A has sacrificed hers. We're the would-be Nazis, unfort. We lose, the Germans gain. You British also lose with your Brexit, I expect. :-/

:hehe: You have literally no idea of what's going on in Germany as a result of Merkel's decision, do you? A nation that had no terrorism problem has now imported one; it has lost roughly half a million of these migrants and has literally no idea where they now are;most of them are unemployed and a massive burden on the resources and infrastructure of the country; the country is suffering a spike in violent crime - particularly sex crime - that is unprecedented in its history and every town centre is full of hordes of middle Eastern/North African men in large, intimidating groups; and, of course, having taking this monumentally stupid step unilaterally, Germany has tried to force other EU states to take some of these people. Understandably, many have told them to fùck off and sort out their own mess.

That's why millions of people are suddenly voting for the only party on the ticket that actually acknowledges that there's a problem - let alone plans to do do anything about it. Merkel's idiocy made this election result happen. If you think that gives her or Germany any moral superiority, you're deluded. As for the whole thing being a 'net gain', the idea is laughable. Even Merkel has admitted she regrets it, ffs!

And we've established already that you have barely even the most rudimentary idea of what Brexit is, what it actually means or the reasons behind it, so kindly forbear from pontificating on the subject.

[eastgermanautos]

:hehe: You have literally no idea of what's going on in Germany as a result of Merkel's decision, do you? A nation that had no terrorism problem has now imported one; it has lost roughly half a million of these migrants and has literally no idea where they now are;most of them are unemployed and a massive burden on the resources and infrastructure of the country; the country is suffering a spike in violent crime - particularly sex crime - that is unprecedented in its history and every town centre is full of hordes of middle Eastern/North African men in large, intimidating groups; and, of course, having taking this monumentally stupid step unilaterally, Germany has tried to force other EU states to take some of these people. Understandably, many have told them to fùck off and sort out their own mess.

That's why millions of people are suddenly voting for the only party on the ticket that actually acknowledges that there's a problem - let alone plans to do do anything about it. Merkel's idiocy made this election result happen. If you think that gives her or Germany any moral superiority, you're deluded. As for the whole thing being a 'net gain', the idea is laughable. Even Merkel has admitted she regrets it, ffs!

And we've established already that you have barely even the most rudimentary idea of what Brexit is, what it actually means or the reasons behind it, so kindly forbear from pontificating on the subject.

I do know that the Germans took a hit as far as the world's perception of them when they decided to kill 6 million Jews, et al. After that, they were concerned to repair their reputation but found it rather difficult for a solid 70 years. It's easier to be xenophobic than it is to be tolerant, which is why nations get credit for being tolerant. Germany took a hit, sure, but it's still extremely well off. It also can be proud of itself for doing something magnanimous.

And here's the thing: where does xenophobia end? It just continues to spiral. Here we have this maniac of a president who tears into everything. But I think he's going down by taking on NFL football. Because that there's our national entertainment, and you don't fvck with that.

[Monty92]

I do know that the Germans took a hit as far as the world's perception of them when they decided to kill 6 million Jews, et al. After that, they were concerned to repair their reputation but found it rather difficult for a solid 70 years. It's easier to be xenophobic than it is to be tolerant, which is why nations get credit for being tolerant. Germany took a hit, sure, but it's still extremely well off. It also can be proud of itself for doing something magnanimous.

And here's the thing: where does xenophobia end? It just continues to spiral. Here we have this maniac of a president who tears into everything. But I think he's going down by taking on NFL football. Because that there's our national entertainment, and you don't fvck with that.

You've literally just ignored everything Burney's written about the horrors taking place in Germany right now and the cause of it.

And while you're praising Germany for restoring their reputation after killing 6 million Jews, then imagine how German Jews feel about another far right party rising to (albeit modest) power.

[eastgermanautos]

You've literally just ignored everything Burney's written about the horrors taking place in Germany right now and the cause of it.

And while you're praising Germany for restoring their reputation after killing 6 million Jews, then imagine how German Jews feel about another far right party rising to (albeit modest) power.

I think "albeit modest" is the key. People want to make money, and parliamentary centrism is the governmental form most conducive to that.

As for Germany, I was there -- recently. Berlin, Wolfsburg, Munich, Vienna, Sazburg, towns in and around. And I'm going back next week. There may be concentrations of immigrants, but I found that most places were not "overrun." This is just color reporting, whipping up hysteria. You can always point to some slimy, unkempt degenerate and generalize that into the rule. I have no doubt that some fvcked up **** happens, such as the Cologne sexual assaults of a few months ago. This is what police and security forces are for.

Crudely put: seventy years ago Germans killed off anybody who wasn't of their narrowly-defined ethnic background. Now we want to cry bloody murder when a few more darkies get in there? Uncool! If white Germans want to have more people they should have more white, nordic kids. Simple.

[Burney]

I think "albeit modest" is the key. People want to make money, and parliamentary centrism is the governmental form most conducive to that.

As for Germany, I was there -- recently. Berlin, Wolfsburg, Munich, Vienna, Sazburg, towns in and around. And I'm going back next week. There may be concentrations of immigrants, but I found that most places were not "overrun." This is just color reporting, whipping up hysteria. You can always point to some slimy, unkempt degenerate and generalize that into the rule. I have no doubt that some fvcked up **** happens, such as the Cologne sexual assaults of a few months ago. This is what police and security forces are for.

Crudely put: seventy years ago Germans killed off anybody who wasn't of their narrowly-defined ethnic background. Now we want to cry bloody murder when a few more darkies get in there? Uncool! If white Germans want to have more people they should have more white, nordic kids. Simple.

OK, first of all, Vienna and Salzburg are in Austria. It's a completely different country.

Second, you seem to be arguing that this generation of Germans effectively deserve what they're getting because of what happened 70 years ago. That's an utterly fùcked up way of looking at things and actually pretty fûcking sick.

Merkel opened the doors to a crimewave, terrorism and all the other delights of Muslim immigration without consulting the German people. Now they are expressing their dissatisfaction with that decision. It's called democracy.

[Burney]

You've literally just ignored everything Burney's written about the horrors taking place in Germany right now and the cause of it.

And while you're praising Germany for restoring their reputation after killing 6 million Jews, then imagine how German Jews feel about another far right party rising to (albeit modest) power.

When a group of British rabbis visited Greek refugee camps, they were told to wear baseball caps over their kippahs. Otherwise they'd be attacked by the lovely refugees.

If I were a German Jew, I'd be far more scared of the refugees than AfD.

[eastgermanautos]

OK, first of all, Vienna and Salzburg are in Austria. It's a completely different country.

Second, you seem to be arguing that this generation of Germans effectively deserve what they're getting because of what happened 70 years ago. That's an utterly fùcked up way of looking at things and actually pretty fûcking sick.

Merkel opened the doors to a crimewave, terrorism and all the other delights of Muslim immigration without consulting the German people. Now they are expressing their dissatisfaction with that decision. It's called democracy.

You have a street fighter's instinct for exaggerating some small point at the expense of the large. I know Vienna and Salzburg are in Austria. I'm shooting a movie in Austria, have met with basically every major Austrian film production house and producer. The movie itself is set in Austria in 1911, so yes, I do know. German-speaking world. I visited not too long ago the Synchron Stage, outside Vienna, built by Goebbels to put on propaganda performances of Wagner and other favored Nazi composers.

In terms of the larger point, of course the present-day residents of a country are building their efforts on the historical efforts of their countrymen. We react to an environment. Germans in the 1950s found it difficult to pretend as if nothing had happened. Now, they have the opportunity to behave well; and they do it, I think, with a view to what happened before. These Muslims are an issue, not gonna lie. I found it a bit chippy in London actually. So I get it. But one has an obligation not to freak the fvck out every ten minutes. You want to do well with your own life, and if you get a swastika tattooed on your face, that works against said goal.

[Burney]

You have a street fighter's instinct for exaggerating some small point at the expense of the large. I know Vienna and Salzburg are in Austria. I'm shooting a movie in Austria, have met with basically every major Austrian film production house and producer. The movie itself is set in Austria in 1911, so yes, I do know. German-speaking world. I visited not too long ago the Synchron Stage, outside Vienna, built by Goebbels to put on propaganda performances of Wagner and other favored Nazi composers.

In terms of the larger point, of course the present-day residents of a country are building their efforts on the historical efforts of their countrymen. We react to an environment. Germans in the 1950s found it difficult to pretend as if nothing had happened. Now, they have the opportunity to behave well; and they do it, I think, with a view to what happened before. These Muslims are an issue, not gonna lie. I found it a bit chippy in London actually. So I get it. But one has an obligation not to freak the fvck out every ten minutes. You want to do well with your own life, and if you get a swastika tattooed on your face, that works against said goal.

You accept that 'these muslims are an issue', but at the same time condemn anyone who is concerned about the issue and seeks to do something about it democratically as a Nazi? The political mainstream in Germany has colluded in refusing to address the issue - or even acknowledge that an issue exists. Given which, it's hardly surprising that Germans are turning to a party that does. These are not people with swastikas tattooed on their faces. They're ordinary decent people - many of them former CDU voters - who have turned to AfD.

The problem is that the German desire to 'behave well' in the light of their historical wrongs has led them to behave in a way that - while it may give them a happy glow in the short-term - has massive and damaging implications in the long term not just for them, but for the whole of mainland Europe. Why should the rest of Europe suffer for the Germans' guilty conscience? Germany's actions were irresponsible and reckless and it's fair to point that out without being called a fascist or told you're 'freaking out'.

The mass, uncontrolled immigration of millions of young men from completely alien cultures with very different values and beliefs has profound long-term consequences for the society that imports them. History has shown that muslims do not assimilate in western cultures, so any idea that everyone will rub along and it'll all turn out OK is simply fantasy. It is not 'freaking out' to recognise and address these facts. Neither is it freaking out to acknowledge the demonstrable fact that these mass importations have led to serious social problems (to put it mildly).

Of course, the problem with debates about immigration is that they always descend into an antagonistic binary. One side calls the other gullible fools and terrorist sympathisers, while the other calls its opponents bigots, racists, Nazis, etc. It is much more helpful to see it in terms of competing virtues. One side believes there is a moral duty to accept immigrants, while the other recognises that there are negative effects to immigration and asks whether any moral case for immigration justifies these negatives for the existing population. There is no need to impute bad motives to either side, since both are simply expressing legitimate concerns and neither is bad or mean by virtue of their stance. Unfortunately, nobody ever wants to argue along these lines, so instead we get stuck with the usual mudslinging and no sensible debate is ever achieved.

[Peter]

You accept that 'these muslims are an issue', but at the same time condemn anyone who is concerned about the issue and seeks to do something about it democratically as a Nazi? The political mainstream in Germany has colluded in refusing to address the issue - or even acknowledge that an issue exists. Given which, it's hardly surprising that Germans are turning to a party that does. These are not people with swastikas tattooed on their faces. They're ordinary decent people - many of them former CDU voters - who have turned to AfD.

The problem is that the German desire to 'behave well' in the light of their historical wrongs has led them to behave in a way that - while it may give them a happy glow in the short-term - has massive and damaging implications in the long term not just for them, but for the whole of mainland Europe. Why should the rest of Europe suffer for the Germans' guilty conscience? Germany's actions were irresponsible and reckless and it's fair to point that out without being called a fascist or told you're 'freaking out'.

The mass, uncontrolled immigration of millions of young men from completely alien cultures with very different values and beliefs has profound long-term consequences for the society that imports them. History has shown that muslims do not assimilate in western cultures, so any idea that everyone will rub along and it'll all turn out OK is simply fantasy. It is not 'freaking out' to recognise and address these facts. Neither is it freaking out to acknowledge the demonstrable fact that these mass importations have led to serious social problems (to put it mildly).

Of course, the problem with debates about immigration is that they always descend into an antagonistic binary. One side calls the other gullible fools and terrorist sympathisers, while the other calls its opponents bigots, racists, Nazis, etc. It is much more helpful to see it in terms of competing virtues. One side believes there is a moral duty to accept immigrants, while the other recognises that there are negative effects to immigration and asks whether any moral case for immigration justifies these negatives for the existing population. There is no need to impute bad motives to either side, since both are simply expressing legitimate concerns and neither is bad or mean by virtue of their stance. Unfortunately, nobody ever wants to argue along these lines, so instead we get stuck with the usual mudslinging and no sensible debate is ever achieved.

I would have thought the irony was that Germany's attempt to behave well and move on from their past has led directly to the rise of an extreme far right party.

Quite funny seeing you both accept that Austria and Germany are different countries. I mean, they are for now, but.....:)

I wont pick up on several of the points you make there regarding immigration and muslims because we have done this to death.

[Burney]

I would have thought the irony was that Germany's attempt to behave well and move on from their past has led directly to the rise of an extreme far right party.

Quite funny seeing you both accept that Austria and Germany are different countries. I mean, they are for now, but.....:)

I wont pick up on several of the points you make there regarding immigration and muslims because we have done this to death.

Not really an irony so much as an entirely predictable case of cause and effect. Newton's Third Law and all that. :shrug:

[Peter]

Not really an irony so much as an entirely predictable case of cause and effect. Newton's Third Law and all that. :shrug:

Irony in that their attempt to escape from their past has actually recreated it. The problem with wanting to appear to be an open and tolerant country is that most people are not tolerant and dont want their country to be open.

[Monty92]

Irony in that their attempt to escape from their past has actually recreated it. The problem with wanting to appear to be an open and tolerant country is that most people are not tolerant and dont want their country to be open.

This is a strange thing to say. The people of Europe have been - and remain in large part - incredibly tolerant of the mass migration that has been imposed on them against their wishes. They may have objected to it, but they have accepted it with incredibly good grace, which stems from an acknowledgement that the overwhelming people who come here were dealt a shít hand in life and are simply seeking a better one.

[Burney]

Irony in that their attempt to escape from their past has actually recreated it. The problem with wanting to appear to be an open and tolerant country is that most people are not tolerant and dont want their country to be open.

Hardly surprising. Most people operate on the principle 'what's in it for me?' and if they see no benefit to them from immigration, why would anyone expect them to support it?

[Burney]

This is a strange thing to say. The people of Europe have been - and remain in large part - incredibly tolerant of the mass migration that has been imposed on them against their express wishes. They may have objected to it, but they have accepted it with incredibly good grace, which stems from an acknowledgement that the overwhelming people who come here were dealt a shít hand in life and are simply seeking a better one.

True, actually. The European people certainly can't be faulted on their toleration of mass migration. But there's a big difference between toleration of something and support for it.

[Monty92]

True, actually. The European people certainly can't be faulted on their toleration of mass migration. But there's a big difference between toleration of something and support for it.

If only they were less tolerant, things might meaningfully change...

Actually, what I'm waiting for is for a family affected by a European terrorist attack to contain someone who is engaged with this issue and uses it as a platform to speak out. This could be a game-changer as no-one would accuse someone who has lost a loved one at the hands of an Allan of being a racist bigot.

It could be like when Sarah Payne's mum became a respected voice on how to deal with *****philes, just because her daughter got nonced off and killed.

[Peter]

Hardly surprising. Most people operate on the principle 'what's in it for me?' and if they see no benefit to them from immigration, why would anyone expect them to support it?

Precisely. And when politicians ignore this and do it anyway they leave themselves open to resentment from voters. Our mistake was to do this for decades and then give the buggers a referendum.

[Peter]

True, actually. The European people certainly can't be faulted on their toleration of mass migration. But there's a big difference between toleration of something and support for it.

Happy to rephrase if it helps. The majority of people do not want mass immigration and would be happier, lets be honest, if there was hardly any immigration at all.

[Burney]

Happy to rephrase if it helps. The majority of people do not want mass immigration and would be happier, lets be honest, if there was hardly any immigration at all.

Absolutely. Polls have shown for decades that there is absolutely not a mandate for mass immigration. However, politicians have kept doing it, with predictable consequences.

I do wonder why it is that those who have consciously and deliberately ignored legitimate voter concerns for decades now seem so shocked that the voters have turned on them. What did they think would happen? Did they think this can could be kicked down the road forever?

[Monty92]

Absolutely. Polls have shown for decades that there is absolutely not a mandate for mass immigration. However, politicians have kept doing it, with predictable consequences.

I do wonder why it is that those who have consciously and deliberately ignored legitimate voter concerns for decades now seem so shocked that the voters have turned on them. What did they think would happen? Did they think this can could be kicked down the road forever?

Large numbers of people who only experience the good side of immigration lack empathy with people who experience the more negative side. I have about 6 immigrant neighbours in my small block alone, but they are the good type - all middle class professionals and no Allans (except Mesut). We have lovely ethnic-owned restaurants nearby and all the non-British kids that go to our kids' school are likely to be middle class because of the catchment area.

Why should immigration bother people like me?

[Burney]

Large numbers of people who only experience the good side of immigration lack empathy with people who experience the more negative side. I have about 6 immigrant neighbours in my small block alone, but they are the good type - all middle class professionals and no Allans (except Mesut). We have lovely ethnic-owned restaurants nearby and all the non-British kids that go to our kids' school are likely to be middle class because of the catchment area.

Why should immigration bother people like me?

Yes. It's also easy to lose sight of how vastly different London is with regard to immigration to the rest of the country. London is huge, wealthy and can absorb immigrants relatively easily. The rest of the country is very, very different in this regard. And if recent politics has shown us anything, it's that Londoners really do not have a fùcking clue how the rest of the country feels.

[Burney]

If only they were less tolerant, things might meaningfully change...

Actually, what I'm waiting for is for a family affected by a European terrorist attack to contain someone who is engaged with this issue and uses it as a platform to speak out. This could be a game-changer as no-one would accuse someone who has lost a loved one at the hands of an Allan of being a racist bigot.

It could be like when Sarah Payne's mum became a respected voice on how to deal with *****philes, just because her daughter got nonced off and killed.


Unfortunately, the media will always go towards the bereaved person who bleats on well-meaningly about forgiveness and tolerance. They are seen as saintly, while the sort of person you describe would first be seen a vengeful and vindictive and would eventually be smeared by association with some right-wing group or other and thus discredited. It's how it works.

[Luis Anaconda]

Large numbers of people who only experience the good side of immigration lack empathy with people who experience the more negative side. I have about 6 immigrant neighbours in my small block alone, but they are the good type - all middle class professionals and no Allans (except Mesut). We have lovely ethnic-owned restaurants nearby and all the non-British kids that go to our kids' school are likely to be middle class because of the catchment area.

Why should immigration bother people like me?
Isn't there evidence that shows the most virulent anti-immigration protests are in areas where there are few migrants - as in the success of AfD in East Germany where there is very little

[Peter]

Isn't there evidence that shows the most virulent anti-immigration protests are in areas where there are few migrants - as in the success of AfD in East Germany where there is very little


Yes, there is some. THe most obvious cause of protest will be areas that are new to migration and are seeing foreigners for the first time. You then have areas that contain hardly any but believe they will be next.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Yes. It's also easy to lose sight of how vastly different London is with regard to immigration to the rest of the country. London is huge, wealthy and can absorb immigrants relatively easily. The rest of the country is very, very different in this regard. And if recent politics has shown us anything, it's that Londoners really do not have a fùcking clue how the rest of the country feels.

Yes, this is one of the main issues. The cities are decently equipped to absorb the immigrants, but stick them in a town or village where there's not really any jobs and you just end up with a load of unemployed people roaming the streets all day. Over here they brought in a policy of forcing all the different boroughs to take refugees once they'd been given residency, this has forced these boroughs who have no form of social housing to buy apartments to house them all in. I don't know if you saw this wonderful story from last week :hehe:

https://www.thelocal.se/20170919/did-a-swedish-council-buy-apartments-for-a-man-and-his-three-wives-nacka

That particular borough has spent £30m in the last 18 months buying apartments to house refugees. Sick of it.

[Luis Anaconda]

Unfortunately, the media will always go towards the bereaved person who bleats on well-meaningly about forgiveness and tolerance. They are seen as saintly, while the sort of person you describe would first be seen a vengeful and vindictive and would eventually be smeared by association with some right-wing group or other and thus discredited. It's how it works.

Almost as if forgiveness and tolerance were an intrinsic part of a Christian society :shrug:

[Burney]

Isn't there evidence that shows the most virulent anti-immigration protests are in areas where there are few migrants - as in the success of AfD in East Germany where there is very little

There's no inherent contradiction there, though. Those who have small levels or no immigration are still in a position to do something to stop it and are thus most motivated to act.

[Burney]

Almost as if forgiveness and tolerance were an intrinsic part of a Christian society :shrug:

Sure, but such examples of forgiveness attract attention because they are the exception rather than the rule. Most normal people who have a loved one murdered by someone in the name of a certain ideology are unlikely to be terribly tolerant of that ideology from that moment forward.

[Luis Anaconda]

There's no inherent contradiction there, though. Those who have small levels or no immigration are still in a position to do something to stop it and are thus most motivated to act.

Oh, I wasn't saying there was - just interesting as a counterpoint to Monty's London take on things.

[Peter]

Large numbers of people who only experience the good side of immigration lack empathy with people who experience the more negative side. I have about 6 immigrant neighbours in my small block alone, but they are the good type - all middle class professionals and no Allans (except Mesut). We have lovely ethnic-owned restaurants nearby and all the non-British kids that go to our kids' school are likely to be middle class because of the catchment area.

Why should immigration bother people like me?

It shouldn't, but it clearly does. Which suggests that you are a man who is able to see beyond his own, narrow self interest and express a grave concern for your country. Well done, you.

Unfortunately, this is also virtue signalling which makes you a ****.

Sorry.

[Burney]

Yes, this is one of the main issues. The cities are decently equipped to absorb the immigrants, but stick them in a town or village where there's not really any jobs and you just end up with a load of unemployed people roaming the streets all day. Over here they brought in a policy of forcing all the different boroughs to take refugees once they'd been given residency, this has forced these boroughs who have no form of social housing to buy apartments to house them all in. I don't know if you saw this wonderful story from last week :hehe:

https://www.thelocal.se/20170919/did-a-swedish-council-buy-apartments-for-a-man-and-his-three-wives-nacka

That particular borough has spent £30m in the last 18 months buying apartments to house refugees. Sick of it.

:hehe: Must feel good knowing your taxes paid for that.

[Monty92]

Unfortunately, the media will always go towards the bereaved person who bleats on well-meaningly about forgiveness and tolerance. They are seen as saintly, while the sort of person you describe would first be seen a vengeful and vindictive and would eventually be smeared by association with some right-wing group or other and thus discredited. It's how it works.

True. We saw this with one of the members of the Death Metal band that was performing at the Bataclan during the attack. The media were all over him - until they realised he was politically and socially conservative and he ended up getting banned from the reopening of the venue :hehe:

[Monty92]

Sure, but such examples of forgiveness attract attention because they are the exception rather than the rule. Most normal people who have a loved one murdered by someone in the name of a certain ideology are unlikely to be terribly tolerant of that ideology from that moment forward.

You'll never find a liberal rape victim, as someone once said.

Though a few of Douglas Murray's anecdotes from his book do challenge that theory....

[Burney]

Oh, I wasn't saying there was - just interesting as a counterpoint to Monty's London take on things.

The other way in which London is exceptional, of course, is the fact is that those who identify as white British people are now a minority there.

[Monty92]

It shouldn't, but it clearly does. Which suggests that you are a man who is able to see beyond his own, narrow self interest and express a grave concern for your country. Well done, you.

Unfortunately, this is also virtue signalling which makes you a ****.

Sorry.

Saying that I don't mind having a nice, polite, friendly Italian family living next door who gives me tips on where to go on holiday is NOT virtue signalling.

[Burney]

You'll never find a liberal rape victim, as someone once said.

Though a few of Douglas Murray's anecdotes from his book do challenge that theory....


The Norwegian bloke who got bum-raped by a Somalian and then went on about how guilty he felt because the bloke had been deported. :hehe:

I would not usually use the term, but the word 'cuck' would seem remarkably apt in that instance. That's racial tolerance manifesting as actual mental illness imo.

[Peter]

Saying that I don't mind having a nice, polite, friendly Italian family living next door who gives me tips on where to go on holiday is NOT virtue signalling.

I dont really know what it means. I just see everyone else chucking it about all the time so I thought I would try using it.

I didnt enjoy it. I am going to stick to calling people ****s.

****.

[Peter]

The other way in which London is exceptional, of course, is the fact is that those who identify as white British people are now a minority there.

Not that colour has anything to do with immigration, of course.

[Luis Anaconda]

I dont really know what it means. I just see everyone else chucking it about all the time so I thought I would try using it.

I didnt enjoy it. I am going to stick to calling people ****s.

****.
:hehe: I'm glad I am not the only one who failed to grasp quite what that is all about. And Monty is a ****

[Burney]

Not that colour has anything to do with immigration, of course.

In a country that is overwhelminglyy white British and has been ethnically homogenous for all but the last 70-odd years, would you not say that it's at the very least significant that the capital city is now completely ethnically anomalous?

[Peter]

In a country that is overwhelminglyy white British and has been ethnically homogenous for all but the last 70-odd years, would you not say that it's at the very least significant that the capital city is now completely ethnically anomalous?

I would say it is the story of London which has not been ethnically homogenous for more than a century. I would also politely suggest that if you are going to chuck in the West Indian immigrants we should probably go back to European jewry who started arriving in London in the 19th century.

The difference between their arrival and the West indians is actually that the West Indians didnt all move to London. The continuing story of our reaction to immigration shows you that it only really becomes a problem when they go outside London.

As you said previously, London is equipped to deal with mass immigration.

[SWv2]

:hehe: I'm glad I am not the only one who failed to grasp quite what that is all about. And Monty is a ****

You can add my name to this list along with Pedro and you.

Please god the only time my name and Pedro's name will appear on the same list.

[Burney]

I would say it is the story of London which has not been ethnically homogenous for more than a century. I would also politely suggest that if you are going to chuck in the West Indian immigrants we should probably go back to European jewry who started arriving in London in the 19th century.

The difference between their arrival and the West indians is actually that the West Indians didnt all move to London. The continuing story of our reaction to immigration shows you that it only really becomes a problem when they go outside London.

As you said previously, London is equipped to deal with mass immigration.

The Jews didn't all move to London, either. There were significant Jewish populations in Leeds, Bradford and Manchester. Marks & Spencer and Montague Burton were both Leeds-based.

[Ash]

True. We saw this with one of the members of the Death Metal band that was performing at the Bataclan during the attack. The media were all over him - until they realised he was politically and socially conservative and he ended up getting banned from the reopening of the venue :hehe:

I believe thon Millwall chappie who saved lives at the London Bridge attacks may have been downgraded from hero to racist thug.

[Peter]

The Jews didn't all move to London, either. There were significant Jewish populations in Leeds, Bradford and Manchester. Marks & Spencer and Montague Burton were both Leeds-based.

Were they not the more established jewish communities though? The first mass migration started in the 1880s and was primarily from eastern europe. I think the overwhelming majority of these arrived and stayed in London. There was a rather well documented tension between the settled jewish communities in most locations and the recent arrivals.

Anyway, the point is that northerners are racists and londoners are decent people.

[Burney]

I believe thon Millwall chappie who saved lives at the London Bridge attacks may have been downgraded from hero to racist thug.

Mind you, he was Millwall, so the latter was always a fair bet, wasn't it?

[Peter]

Mind you, he was Millwall, so the latter was always a fair bet, wasn't it?

Yes, he doesnt appear to have left much to the imagination. His tirade included 'foreign ****s, rapist ****s, you people stink like ****'.....

Still.......he did fight off terrorists.

[Burney]

Yes, he doesnt appear to have left much to the imagination. His tirade included 'foreign ****s, rapist ****s, you people stink like ****'.....

Still.......he did fight off terrorists.

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

[Peter]

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

He fought off three terrorists with his bare hands and was stabbed multiple times. I think he has earned the right to a bit of a tirade.

[Burney]

He fought off three terrorists with his bare hands and was stabbed multiple times. I think he has earned the right to a bit of a tirade.

Quite so. And just because you happen to be a bit racist, it doesn't mean you're necessarily a bad chap.

[Monty92]

I doubt this bloke is particularly enlightened, but if someone is a **** to you and you respond with racist language towards them, I do think a certain amount of leeway should be allowed before you get branded a nazi.

Which is why I don't think half of awimb is racist even though it is a hive of anti-semitism. Basically, I'm asking for it.



Quite so. And just because you happen to be a bit racist, it doesn't mean you're necessarily a bad chap.

[Peter]

I doubt this bloke is particularly enlightened, but if someone is a **** to you and you respond with racist language towards them, I do think a certain amount of leeway should be allowed before you get branded a nazi.

Which is why I don't think half of awimb is racist even though it is a hive of anti-semitism. Basically, I'm asking for it.


Fair point. In this instance the video of him screaming abuse and spitting in a black photographers face whilst shouting 'National Front' was taken before the terrorist incident.

Even so..... handy guy to have around.

[Peter]

Quite so. And just because you happen to be a bit racist, it doesn't mean you're necessarily a bad chap.

True. And there are times when being a thoroughly decent chap isn't much use.

[Burney]

I doubt this bloke is particularly enlightened, but if someone is a **** to you and you respond with racist language towards them, I do think a certain amount of leeway should be allowed before you get branded a nazi.

Which is why I don't think half of awimb is racist even though it is a hive of anti-semitism. Basically, I'm asking for it.

It must be weird being Jewish. You're an ethnic minority, but nobody really treats you like one - even to the extent that people can't even agree on when they are or aren't being racist towards you. Proper ethnics at least have the knowledge that loads of people will rush to their defence at the slightest suggestion of racism, whereas if similar things are said to or about Jews, a debate ensues about whether they're really anti-semitic. Plus, you get those weird philo-semites who essentially seem to share all the same classical bigotries as anti-semites, but see them as positives.

And then there's the underlying knowledge that there are loads of people who, while perfectly outwardly respectable and who would be outraged if you suggested they were racist, instinctively dislike you because you're Jewish.

Plus the whole Holocaust thing must keep you on your toes a bit.

All in all, it must be a bit shīt imo. :-(

[Monty92]

It must be weird being Jewish. You're an ethnic minority, but nobody really treats you like one - even to the extent that people can't even agree on when they are or aren't being racist towards you. Proper ethnics at least have the knowledge that loads of people will rush to their defence at the slightest suggestion of racism, whereas if similar things are said to or about Jews, a debate ensues about whether they're really anti-semitic. Plus, you get those weird philo-semites who essentially seem to share all the same classical bigotries as anti-semites, but see them as positives.

And then there's the underlying knowledge that there are loads of people who, while perfectly outwardly respectable and who would be outraged if you suggested they were racist, instinctively dislike you because you're Jewish.

Plus the whole Holocaust thing must keep you on your toes a bit.

All in all, it must be a bit shīt imo. :-(

You forgot about IBS, aka The Jewish Disease -:-(

It's not that bad really. Most of us are from money and the girls can be proper slags once they've escaped the reins of their over-bearing parents.

[Burney]

You forgot about IBS, aka The Jewish Disease -:-(

It's not that bad really. Most of us are from money and the girls can be proper slags once they've escaped the reins of their over-bearing parents.

Yes, I'm sure you don't think about it that much. It's just that it sometimes occurs to me when people are having a pop at your nose/supposed tight-fistedness/residence in Finchley that they wouldn't dream of mocking a black man for - say - the size of his lips or unfortunate tendency to impregnate women and do a runner. That's because a black man is a proper ethnic in a way a Jew simply isn't. Jews seem to get all the downsides of ethnic minority status with none of the upsides. Odd, really.

[Ash]

Jews seem to get all the downsides of ethnic minority status with none of the upsides. Odd, really.

Well, they do at least get to surreptitiously rule the world, tbf.

[Pokster]

Well, they do at least get to surreptitiously rule the world, tbf.

I thought that was Tears for Fears?

[Burney]

Well, they do at least get to surreptitiously rule the world, tbf.

If they're so surreptitious about it, how come you've noticed?

[Ash]

If they're so surreptitious about it, how come you've noticed?

Well I hadn't noticed, tbh.

[Monty92]

Yes, I'm sure you don't think about it that much. It's just that it sometimes occurs to me when people are having a pop at your nose/supposed tight-fistedness/residence in Finchley that they wouldn't dream of mocking a black man for - say - the size of his lips or unfortunate tendency to impregnate women and do a runner. That's because a black man is a proper ethnic in a way a Jew simply isn't. Jews seem to get all the downsides of ethnic minority status with none of the upsides. Odd, really.

Yes, given the discrimination we face, it's amazing you don't see waves of Jew-on-Jew crime :rubchin:

[Burney]

Yes, given the discrimination we face, it's amazing you don't see waves of Jew-on-Jew crime :rubchin:

:nod: Drive-by shootings in Stamford Hill.

[Monty92]

:nod: Drive-by shootings in Stamford Hill.

I asked a couple of Jewish friends recently if they know any Jews who have got divorced. I don't know what the stats are, but I can only assume it is way under the national average.

When you're Jewish, being an absent father means you're stuck at the office working on a complex litigation case.

[Burney]

I asked a couple of Jewish friends recently if they know any Jews who have got divorced. I don't know what the stats are, but I can only assume it is way under the national average.

When you're Jewish, being an absent father means you're stuck at the office working on a complex litigation case.

Is there a particular stigma to divorce? Because the removal of that is what's really sent divorce rates rocketing in the west.

[Monty92]

Is there a particular stigma to divorce? Because the removal of that is what's really sent divorce rates rocketing in the west.

Yes, but almost entirely culturally driven. Jews don't tend to move far from their parents and remain emotionally wedded to them by virtue of seeing them so often. As a result the parents are consulted (or offer an opinion uninvited) on everything, from house purchases to the schools you send your kids to. You don't wanna be the Jew that has to tell your parents you're getting divorced.

There's other factors at play, obviously, but this is certainly an important one.

[Peter]

Is there a particular stigma to divorce? Because the removal of that is what's really sent divorce rates rocketing in the west.

And quite right too....

[Burney]

Yes, but almost entirely culturally driven. Jews don't tend to move far from their parents and remain emotionally wedded to them by virtue of seeing them so often. As a result the parents are consulted (or offer an opinion uninvited) on everything, from house purchases to the schools you send your kids to. You don't wanna be the Jew that has to tell your parents you're getting divorced.

There's other factors at play, obviously, but this is certainly an important one.

Also, I suppose in relatively close-knit communities, you'd be forever seeing your ex and former in-laws. No-one wants that.

[Monty92]

Also, I suppose in relatively close-knit communities, you'd be forever seeing your ex and former in-laws. No-one wants that.

My missus and I are a pretty text book example of the differences. Her: non-jewish, mum lives 2 hours away, sees her a few times a year, dad fúcked off decades ago and lives in America. Me: mum and dad both within a 25-minute drive and see us Every. Fúcking. Weekend.

Obviously she doesn't mind this at all and it causes absolutely no friction. Ohhhh no. :-|

[Burney]

My missus and I are a pretty text book example of the differences. Her: non-jewish, mum lives 2 hours away, sees her a few times a year, dad fúcked off decades ago and lives in America. Me: mum and dad both within a 25-minute drive and see us Every. Fúcking. Weekend.

Obviously she doesn't mind this at all and it causes absolutely no friction. Ohhhh no. :-|

Hmmm. Still, baby-sitting on tap, surely?

[Monty92]

Hmmm. Still, baby-sitting on tap, surely?

Yes. I think on balance I'd still prefer them to be on the other side of the world, though. Or dead.

[Burney]

Yes. I think on balance I'd still prefer them to be on the other side of the world, though. Or dead.

My parents in law are no trouble, really. One's in Florida and the other's in Bradford. Although the one in Florida did briefly get put in jail recently. Oh, and he managed to trigger some sort of transatlantic security alert by maliciously suggesting that a group of former Navy Seals were operating an ISIS training camp that meant Scotland Yard took an interest in his various family members :rolleyes:

Oh, and my mother-in-law has at various times been both a Jehovah's Witness and a Witch.

Other than that, they're fine, though.

[Monty92]

Do they have partners though? Is there a risk they'll move back when they get older and become a burden on you?

We're in a timebomb situation. Four parents, all with varying dysfunctionalties, and all alone except for the one who just impregnated a 30 year old Nigerian prostitute.

The chances of us not having to look after at least one of them when they get old are slim :-(


My parents in law are no trouble, really. One's in Florida and the other's in Bradford. Although the one in Florida did briefly get put in jail recently. Oh, and he managed to trigger some sort of transatlantic security alert by maliciously suggesting that a group of former Navy Seals were operating an ISIS training camp that meant Scotland Yard took an interest in his various family members :rolleyes:

Oh, and my mother-in-law has at various times been both a Jehovah's Witness and a Witch.

Other than that, they're fine, though.

[World's End Stella]

Do they have partners though? Is there a risk they'll move back when they get older and become a burden on you?

We're in a timebomb situation. Four parents, all with varying dysfunctionalties, and all alone except for the one who just impregnated a 30 year old Nigerian prostitute.

The chances of us not having to look after at least one of them when they get old are slim :-(

Shortly after my MIL moves in with us in her later years after her husband passes away I have every intention of killing her.

Suggestions for a method gratefully received.

[Burney]

Do they have partners though? Is there a risk they'll move back when they get older and become a burden on you?

We're in a timebomb situation. Four parents, all with varying dysfunctionalties, and all alone except for the one who just impregnated a 30 year old Nigerian prostitute.

The chances of us not having to look after at least one of them when they get old are slim :-(

The yanqui will stay in the USA whatever, I think. And the Bradford one will move in with my sister-in-law if she moves in with anyone (which I doubt).

[Monty92]

If you're gonna kill her, you might as well **** her first.




Shortly after my MIL moves in with us in her later years after her husband passes away I have every intention of killing her.

Suggestions for a method gratefully received.

[World's End Stella]

If you're gonna kill her, you might as well **** her first.

If I was man enough to get a hard on with that laying naked beneath me I probably would.

And then tell absolutely everyone. :nod:

[Ash]

Shortly after my MIL moves in with us in her later years after her husband passes away I have every intention of killing her.

Suggestions for a method gratefully received.

If you repeat your opinions about Aaron Ramsey to her over and over she might close her eyes and voluntarily slip into the arms of the reaper.

[Monty92]

I thought it's when Aaron plays well that lives are at stake


If you repeat your opinions about Aaron Ramsey to her over and over she might close her eyes and voluntarily slip into the arms of the reaper.

[Peter]

I thought it's when Aaron plays well that lives are at stake


Just think how many lives he has saved over the years, the useless welsh ****.

[redgunamo]

..unfortunate tendency to impregnate women and do a runner.

lol. To be fair, that's a bit rich coming from an Irish.

And surely anyway, the really consequential "uttiwa and do an r" was, and still is, performed by you educated middle class sorts; with all your pills and abortions and divorces, your NHS and your state schools and so on. You've managed to turn knocking up dollies and scarpering into an important multi-billion pound industry, actually predicated on this fact, or tendency, to the point you're now up to your necks in undesirables from the third world. And Poland.

This fecklessness of yours is also several leagues more demographically and politically significant than a few darkies doing it too. Far more morally significant as well, I suppose.

[redgunamo]

Yes, but almost entirely culturally driven. Jews don't tend to move far from their parents and remain emotionally wedded to them by virtue of seeing them so often. As a result the parents are consulted (or offer an opinion uninvited) on everything, from house purchases to the schools you send your kids to. You don't wanna be the Jew that has to tell your parents you're getting divorced.

There's other factors at play, obviously, but this is certainly an important one.

Yes, mere numbers are something of an issue, aren't they. Even I am practically catching you people up single-handedly :-\

[redgunamo]

Is there a particular stigma to divorce? Because the removal of that is what's really sent divorce rates rocketing in the west.

Extinction, you'd think? After all, that must be fairly stigmatic. There's not really the numbers to take such matters so lightly.