Still scratching my head at that team selection yesterday.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Welbeck instead of Lacazette :hehe: Holding who he dropped down to the U23s only a week ago instead of Mustafi :hehe: Bellerin at LWB instead of Kolasinac :hehe: Chamberlain even being in the team :hehe:

They aren't even debatable ones either, they're ****ing mental.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

It was so bizarre, I have serious concerns about Wenger's sanity.

[SWv2]

Welbeck instead of Lacazette :hehe: Holding who he dropped down to the U23s only a week ago instead of Mustafi :hehe: Bellerin at LWB instead of Kolasinac :hehe: Chamberlain even being in the team :hehe:

They aren't even debatable ones either, they're ****ing mental.

The perseverance with an out of position Chamberlain, and the enforced resultant knock-on across the defence is just baffling.

He has allegedly said he does not want to stay and continue to play for the club, whatever about his professional attitude to his last 12 months but that is the crux of it. He is not such a good player – as one could argue with the other two – as to continue this stance of playing him in the hope that he suddenly thinks differently, which surely is what is happening.

You buy two assets to strengthen your team, both of whom have started their careers very promisingly, and then you leave them out for the first major top 6 clash – having hooked both of them last week when things were going wrong at Stoke. They weren’t even going that wrong, we just contrived to fúck up a game we should have won.

The midfield. Now forget individual opinions on the qualities or otherwise of the two players, but at some point you have to ask what managerial tactical instruction they are being given. Ramsey doesn’t just decide on his own will to charge into the most forward position in the team so early in matches, if he does he is told to stop, if he does not do so the manager acts. Bringing Coquelin from the bench is not the answer either, he is not good enough, he would not make the starting 11 of any side we are allegedly in competition with.

Ramsey is (correctly) getting abuse for having his back to play when the move for the first goal developed. He was talking to the bench. Now I assume he wasn’t asking for opinions on the finale of GOT so what was going on, tactical instructions, injury … whatever it was who on the bench thought it appropriate to have that chat as play went on behind them. Meanwhile Chamberlain was just walking away, in his own world.

It was a fúcking shambles really. Maybe not the worst in my ever but certainly the worst I can recall. Very good footballers looking like pub players, not one bar Cech has a shred of credit.

And now I expect we will sell our 35m German international defender in the next few days, the player we spent weeks chasing only 12 months ago.

I just don’t get it.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

The perseverance with an out of position Chamberlain, and the enforced resultant knock-on across the defence is just baffling.

He has allegedly said he does not want to stay and continue to play for the club, whatever about his professional attitude to his last 12 months but that is the crux of it. He is not such a good player – as one could argue with the other two – as to continue this stance of playing him in the hope that he suddenly thinks differently, which surely is what is happening.

You buy two assets to strengthen your team, both of whom have started their careers very promisingly, and then you leave them out for the first major top 6 clash – having hooked both of them last week when things were going wrong at Stoke. They weren’t even going that wrong, we just contrived to fúck up a game we should have won.

The midfield. Now forget individual opinions on the qualities or otherwise of the two players, but at some point you have to ask what managerial tactical instruction they are being given. Ramsey doesn’t just decide on his own will to charge into the most forward position in the team so early in matches, if he does he is told to stop, if he does not do so the manager acts. Bringing Coquelin from the bench is not the answer either, he is not good enough, he would not make the starting 11 of any side we are allegedly in competition with.

Ramsey is (correctly) getting abuse for having his back to play when the move for the first goal developed. He was talking to the bench. Now I assume he wasn’t asking for opinions on the finale of GOT so what was going on, tactical instructions, injury … whatever it was who on the bench thought it appropriate to have that chat as play went on behind them. Meanwhile Chamberlain was just walking away, in his own world.

It was a fúcking shambles really. Maybe not the worst in my ever but certainly the worst I can recall. Very good footballers looking like pub players, not one bar Cech has a shred of credit.

And now I expect we will sell our 35m German international defender in the next few days, the player we spent weeks chasing only 12 months ago.

I just don’t get it.

We will sell him and Chamberlain and get maybe £60m back. If we don't sign anyone this week (not that it will make a difference but we need a CB and CM) then we are well and truly ****ed. We'll probably end up with Draxler or Mahrez as a "make everyone happy for a week" panic buy.

[Rich]

Welbeck instead of Lacazette :hehe: Holding who he dropped down to the U23s only a week ago instead of Mustafi :hehe: Bellerin at LWB instead of Kolasinac :hehe: Chamberlain even being in the team :hehe:

They aren't even debatable ones either, they're ****ing mental.

What do you think the reasons that Wenger didn't want to discuss are?

Asked what went wrong Wenger said: “Everything. From the first to the last minute, not physically, not technically not mentally we were not at the level and we were punished. It was a tough day. You can analyse the chances we gave away but overall the performance was not at the requested level.”

Pushed on why, Wenger added: “That is very difficult to answer after the game. There are some reasons but I don’t think I have too much to comment on that now.

[SWv2]

We will sell him and Chamberlain and get maybe £60m back. If we don't sign anyone this week (not that it will make a difference but we need a CB and CM) then we are well and truly ****ed. We'll probably end up with Draxler or Mahrez as a "make everyone happy for a week" panic buy.

Mahrez can fúck off.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

What do you think the reasons that Wenger didn't want to discuss are?

Asked what went wrong Wenger said: “Everything. From the first to the last minute, not physically, not technically not mentally we were not at the level and we were punished. It was a tough day. You can analyse the chances we gave away but overall the performance was not at the requested level.”

Pushed on why, Wenger added: “That is very difficult to answer after the game. There are some reasons but I don’t think I have too much to comment on that now.

Seems like this is his fallback option now after we get humiliated. Suggest there's something going on behind close doors undermining him. I think the reality is nothing much is going on, apart from him continuing to stink the ****ing place out.

[SWv2]

What do you think the reasons that Wenger didn't want to discuss are?

Asked what went wrong Wenger said: “Everything. From the first to the last minute, not physically, not technically not mentally we were not at the level and we were punished. It was a tough day. You can analyse the chances we gave away but overall the performance was not at the requested level.”

Pushed on why, Wenger added: “That is very difficult to answer after the game. There are some reasons but I don’t think I have too much to comment on that now.

No manager is going to lay his soul bare and be 100% open and honest in a post-game interview. It’s all about generic statements to get the enforced interview over.

I thought he was quite open and damning really and he is not so stupid as to know his statements incriminated himself and his staff. Players clearly have to take the brunt here, but then if players are telling the club they don’t want to stay but are still being selected ahead of others then the manager is perhaps badly mis-judging the situation.

He appears muddled to me also. Any set back in a match and almost his first reaction is to drop the tactical set-up of 3 across the back. It works when the correct personnel are in place or when the players selected carry out the tactical instruction.

[World's End Stella]

We will sell him and Chamberlain and get maybe £60m back. If we don't sign anyone this week (not that it will make a difference but we need a CB and CM) then we are well and truly ****ed. We'll probably end up with Draxler or Mahrez as a "make everyone happy for a week" panic buy.

If I'm honest, BGS, we could buy Messi and I wouldn't really be interested. Who we sell or buy between now and Thursday strikes me as pretty irrelevant as long as Wenger is our manager.

[SWv2]

If I'm honest, BGS, we could buy Messi and I wouldn't really be interested. Who we sell or buy between now and Thursday strikes me as pretty irrelevant as long as Wenger is our manager.

Indeed.

When almost every watching football expert / pundit has a very clear view and the only contrary view appears to be Wenger then you have to question his current state of mind.

Reacting this week and bringing in whatever new players will only be seen now as an act of desperation in light of a humiliating performance, similar to the reaction to the defeat at OT all those years ago. Not a plan of any sort just a panic.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

If I'm honest, BGS, we could buy Messi and I wouldn't really be interested. Who we sell or buy between now and Thursday strikes me as pretty irrelevant as long as Wenger is our manager.

Yeah i don't really give a **** either anymore. Luckily we play on Sunday's quite a lot before christmas and that's my NFL day so Arsenal and Arsene can get ****ed.

[World's End Stella]

Yeah i don't really give a **** either anymore. Luckily we play on Sunday's quite a lot before christmas and that's my NFL day so Arsenal and Arsene can get ****ed.

How bout them Cowboys?

Who do you support, BGS?

[Just Trent]

Welbeck instead of Lacazette :hehe: Holding who he dropped down to the U23s only a week ago instead of Mustafi :hehe: Bellerin at LWB instead of Kolasinac :hehe: Chamberlain even being in the team :hehe:

They aren't even debatable ones either, they're ****ing mental.


Remember last year, when he said he would 'never forget' some of the protests against him? Is this his revenge? Is he going to sabotage a whole season as some sort of pay back? If he was I'd probably have more respect for him. At least it would explain a few things. As things stand it's just insane.

I felt last year that he lost the dressing room during that awful run. I see signs of that again already. Some players clearly don't buy into his management. Did they come back for pre-season, see that nothing was different and just down tools? How long can that be allowed to drag on for again? Is Wenger so untouchable, that it'll just be allowed to play out until there is a slight improvement?

Sad to see it happening all over again. Arsenal should be better than that, Wenger was better than that. Time for everyone to move on.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

How bout them Cowboys?

Who do you support, BGS?

Carolina Panthers. The 2020 got me into it by inviting me to a fantasy league in 2011 iirc and they've been my team since.

[World's End Stella]

Carolina Panthers. The 2020 got me into it by inviting me to a fantasy league in 2011 iirc and they've been my team since.

McCaffrey was a great pick, he'll make a difference to Cam. Not convinced on how Cam will do in a quick timing based offence and your secondary is suspect.

Still take your D over the Boys mind. :-(

[Billy Goat Sverige]

McCaffrey was a great pick, he'll make a difference to Cam. Not convinced on how Cam will do in a quick timing based offence and your secondary is suspect.

Still take your D over the Boys mind. :-(

I think Cam should be able to adjust, just worried about his shoulder after surgery. He's not really thrown all that much in pre-season and i reckon he'll be a bit rusty for the first few weeks. Our defense is great. The front 7 and linebackers are probably top 3 in the league but as you say the secondary is not very good. One of our corners (Bradberry) is really good but the no.2 corner and safeties are ****.

[World's End Stella]

I think Cam should be able to adjust, just worried about his shoulder after surgery. He's not really thrown all that much in pre-season and i reckon he'll be a bit rusty for the first few weeks. Our defense is great. The front 7 and linebackers are probably top 3 in the league but as you say the secondary is not very good. One of our corners (Bradberry) is really good but the no.2 corner and safeties are ****.

I liked McCaffrey but was surprised you didn't take Malik Hooker in the draft. Some had him rated as a blue chip safety and you can get RBs later in the draft.

Zeke's appeal is Tuesday, I'm not confident, sadly.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

I liked McCaffrey but was surprised you didn't take Malik Hooker in the draft. Some had him rated as a blue chip safety and you can get RBs later in the draft.

Zeke's appeal is Tuesday, I'm not confident, sadly.

They come down on you like a ton of bricks now if it's anything domestic abuse related. Although the guy chairing the appeal reduced Greg Hardy's ban from ten games to four. Although that was four or five years ago and they seem a lot stricter now. League image and all that.

[World's End Stella]

They come down on you like a ton of bricks now if it's anything domestic abuse related. Although the guy chairing the appeal reduced Greg Hardy's ban from ten games to four. Although that was four or five years ago and they seem a lot stricter now. League image and all that.

Yeah but that was before the league mandated a 6 game minimum ban for domestic abuse. Word in Dallas is that Zeke's lawyers may pull a Brady and sue the league if he loses the appeal.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

The perseverance with an out of position Chamberlain, and the enforced resultant knock-on across the defence is just baffling.

He has allegedly said he does not want to stay and continue to play for the club, whatever about his professional attitude to his last 12 months but that is the crux of it. He is not such a good player – as one could argue with the other two – as to continue this stance of playing him in the hope that he suddenly thinks differently, which surely is what is happening.

You buy two assets to strengthen your team, both of whom have started their careers very promisingly, and then you leave them out for the first major top 6 clash – having hooked both of them last week when things were going wrong at Stoke. They weren’t even going that wrong, we just contrived to fúck up a game we should have won.

The midfield. Now forget individual opinions on the qualities or otherwise of the two players, but at some point you have to ask what managerial tactical instruction they are being given. Ramsey doesn’t just decide on his own will to charge into the most forward position in the team so early in matches, if he does he is told to stop, if he does not do so the manager acts. Bringing Coquelin from the bench is not the answer either, he is not good enough, he would not make the starting 11 of any side we are allegedly in competition with.

Ramsey is (correctly) getting abuse for having his back to play when the move for the first goal developed. He was talking to the bench. Now I assume he wasn’t asking for opinions on the finale of GOT so what was going on, tactical instructions, injury … whatever it was who on the bench thought it appropriate to have that chat as play went on behind them. Meanwhile Chamberlain was just walking away, in his own world.

It was a fúcking shambles really. Maybe not the worst in my ever but certainly the worst I can recall. Very good footballers looking like pub players, not one bar Cech has a shred of credit.

And now I expect we will sell our 35m German international defender in the next few days, the player we spent weeks chasing only 12 months ago.

I just don’t get it.


I think someone on here said that 3 at the back seems to have helped us stop being so easily counter attacked. I couldn't really see that as in all the games so far, we have been caught stone cold on the counter attack in every game. The problem is clearly how quickly we empty out the midfield. There is a total lack of discipline on the pitch so formation changes are not going to have a great deal of impact if we cannot do the basics. Referring more to Stoke and Leicester (which I watched), we conceded goals because we gave the ball away and we were very quickly outnumbered in the final third. I can only assume that yesterday was more of the same?

I see Ramsey getting lots of **** but Xhaka loses his position very easily as well. He was brilliant in the cup final and did everything correctly but seems to have gone back to the indiscipline he showed far too frequently last season. If Ramsey is going to go forward, Xhaka must stay put. This is what does not seem to be happening. Of course there are serious question marks about why Ramsey is bombing forward at Liverpool at 0-0 when we are struggling to get a foothold in the game?

[Mo Britain less Europe]

I think someone on here said that 3 at the back seems to have helped us stop being so easily counter attacked. I couldn't really see that as in all the games so far, we have been caught stone cold on the counter attack in every game. The problem is clearly how quickly we empty out the midfield. There is a total lack of discipline on the pitch so formation changes are not going to have a great deal of impact if we cannot do the basics. Referring more to Stoke and Leicester (which I watched), we conceded goals because we gave the ball away and we were very quickly outnumbered in the final third. I can only assume that yesterday was more of the same?

I see Ramsey getting lots of **** but Xhaka loses his position very easily as well. He was brilliant in the cup final and did everything correctly but seems to have gone back to the indiscipline he showed far too frequently last season. If Ramsey is going to go forward, Xhaka must stay put. This is what does not seem to be happening. Of course there are serious question marks about why Ramsey is bombing forward at Liverpool at 0-0 when we are struggling to get a foothold in the game?

Three at the back does help against counter-attacks if you play the right three players at the back and if your wing-backs do their defensive duties. Gives you the extra man down the middle basically. Your 3-5-2 - if that is what it is - quickly becomes a 5-3-2

[SWv2]

Three at the back does help against counter-attacks if you play the right three players at the back and if your wing-backs do their defensive duties. Gives you the extra man down the middle basically. Your 3-5-2 - if that is what it is - quickly becomes a 5-3-2

Bellerin and Chamberlain are as much a part of the problem as any of the midfield protagonists.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Three at the back does help against counter-attacks if you play the right three players at the back and if your wing-backs do their defensive duties. Gives you the extra man down the middle basically. Your 3-5-2 - if that is what it is - quickly becomes a 5-3-2

I'm going by the evidence to date.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

I'm going by the evidence to date.

It won us the FA Cup against a better team.

The problem is when players don't follow the system correctly, when you play them out of position and when you don't play the best players you have for those positions as opposed to those you think are the best players. Bellerin should never play on the left but he doesn;t want to drop Ox. If Bellerin had played right and Kolasinac left wing-back we might not have been embarrassed yesterday. But there were other things wrong with the selection such as not playing your best centre-backs or strikers.

[World's End Stella]

It won us the FA Cup against a better team.

The problem is when players don't follow the system correctly, when you play them out of position and when you don't play the best players you have for those positions as opposed to those you think are the best players. Bellerin should never play on the left but he doesn;t want to drop Ox. If Bellerin had played right and Kolasinac left wing-back we might not have been embarrassed yesterday. But there were other things wrong with the selection such as not playing your best centre-backs or strikers.

That's a pretty astonishing bit of analysis, Mo. 4 sentences and not a single mention of central midfield where Xhaka and Ramsey were appallingly bad and the source of the majority of our problems.

Impressive.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

It won us the FA Cup against a better team.

The problem is when players don't follow the system correctly, when you play them out of position and when you don't play the best players you have for those positions as opposed to those you think are the best players. Bellerin should never play on the left but he doesn;t want to drop Ox. If Bellerin had played right and Kolasinac left wing-back we might not have been embarrassed yesterday. But there were other things wrong with the selection such as not playing your best centre-backs or strikers.


The point, Mo, is that the formation is irrelevant when players do not do their most basic of jobs. Getting caught on the counter time and time again is not a symptom of the formation.

The basic rule of defending is that you do not want to expose your last line of defence to your opponents. Whether it is a back 3, a back 4 or a back 5. The players that sit in front of the defence have a very important job to do and without them, our last line of defence is exposed. If you do not expose the last line of defence to your opponent, it makes it harder for them to break it down and makes it harder for them to score. Seems very obvious but we are failing to uphold that at its most basic level.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

That's a pretty astonishing bit of analysis, Mo. 4 sentences and not a single mention of central midfield where Xhaka and Ramsey were appallingly bad and the source of the majority of our problems.

Impressive.

Thanks. But I wasn't trying to analyse all the reasons why we lost. I was mainly referring to why the three at the back is a better option.

In point of fact the only other options in central midfield were Elneny and/or Coquelin. So what would have made sense is to go with three central midfielders and two up front or 3-5-1-1 BUT that would have meant dropping one out of Ozil and Sanchez neither of which he wants to drop because he's trying to persuade them to stay or (Sanchez) trying to make a statement he will not be sold this summer.

Only connect.

[redgunamo]

Welbeck instead of Lacazette :hehe: Holding who he dropped down to the U23s only a week ago instead of Mustafi :hehe: Bellerin at LWB instead of Kolasinac :hehe: Chamberlain even being in the team :hehe:

They aren't even debatable ones either, they're ****ing mental.

I know Wenger can't really win here; damned if He changes things, damned if He doesn't. But it's difficult to see which bits of this selection He felt would, or could, actually work. We were poor, but what was He expecting to happen even if we'd played well,

[Bergkamp Was Best]

Good to see another Cowboys fan on the Forum WES. Like you I'm not confident with Zeke's appeal, maybe a game or two reduction of the ban is the best we can hope for. Hopefully we can still beat those pesky Giants in the season opener.

[Ash]

Welbeck instead of Lacazette :hehe: Holding who he dropped down to the U23s only a week ago instead of Mustafi :hehe: Bellerin at LWB instead of Kolasinac :hehe: Chamberlain even being in the team :hehe:

They aren't even debatable ones either, they're ****ing mental.

The Mad King?

GOT reference for those unfamiliar

[World's End Stella]

Good to see another Cowboys fan on the Forum WES. Like you I'm not confident with Zeke's appeal, maybe a game or two reduction of the ban is the best we can hope for. Hopefully we can still beat those pesky Giants in the season opener.

I'm reasonably confident. And if Beckham isn't playing I'm even more confident. Bad news is that the rookie DBs have barely practiced due to injury and Manning has no shortage of weapons to throw to. Good news is that even without Zeke our offence is outstanding and should have the ball a lot.

We'll see. Still, at least one our teams has some room for optimism. :-)