My sister's voting Labour - not a good sign

[Monty92]

Lives in a predominantly white working class town and voted to leave the EU. Should in theory be a text-book example of someone deserting Labour. And yet....

Thinks Corbyn "seems like a nice bloke" and has been heavily influenced by endless Facebook memes about the Tories making cuts to public services and selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The depicting of Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser has simply not cut through at all.

I'm back to being scared :-(

Burney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

[Burney]

Lives in a predominantly white working class town and voted to leave the EU. Should in theory be a text-book example of someone deserting Labour. And yet....

Thinks Corbyn "seems like a nice bloke" and has been heavily influenced by endless Facebook memes about the Tories making cuts to public services and selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The depicting of Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser has simply not cut through at all.

I'm back to being scared :-(

Burney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

:rolleyes: You really are a terrible bedwetter, aren't you?

647

Have you pointed out Labour's record of anti-semitism to your sister?

[Ash]

The depicting of Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser has simply not cut through at all.



Because he isn't, and it is cheap sloganeering to pretend that he is. Ancient sympathies with the cause of Irish Republicanism is irrelevant to the threats of today. Whereas cosying up to Saudi Arabia and supporting terrorists overseas in obedience to the regime-change policies of the USA is more cause for concern. We need voter pressure against such policies imo.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Because he isn't, and it is cheap sloganeering to pretend that he is. Ancient sympathies with the cause of Irish Republicanism is irrelevant to the threats of today. Whereas cosying up to Saudi Arabia and supporting terrorists overseas in obedience to the regime-change policies of the USA is more cause for concern. We need voter pressure against such policies imo.

This
POTD

[Monty92]

Because he isn't, and it is cheap sloganeering to pretend that he is. Ancient sympathies with the cause of Irish Republicanism is irrelevant to the threats of today. Whereas cosying up to Saudi Arabia and supporting terrorists overseas in obedience to the regime-change policies of the USA is more cause for concern. We need voter pressure against such policies imo.

He demonstrably is a terrorist sympathiser.

We *know* what these people believe. They believe in moral equivalence between the West's imperialist past (and its more recent military ventures overseas) and the blow-back of terrorism.

I believe people who hold this view are deeply morally and ethically flawed and I hold them in the utmost contempt.

[Burney]

Because he isn't, and it is cheap sloganeering to pretend that he is. Ancient sympathies with the cause of Irish Republicanism is irrelevant to the threats of today. Whereas cosying up to Saudi Arabia and supporting terrorists overseas in obedience to the regime-change policies of the USA is more cause for concern. We need voter pressure against such policies imo.

Right. So he was a terrorist sympathiser, but isn't anymore? So he must have specifically condemned the IRA's actions subsequently, then, right? Oh, hang on... he hasn't, has he? In fact, he's repeatedly failed to do so when asked.

Also, he has repeatedly palled up with Hamas, calling them 'friends' and asking that they be removed from the UK's list of proscribed organisations. Hamas, lest we forget, is an avowedly anti-semitic organisation whose members have repeatedly called for a Jewish genocide.

I'd call that terrorist sympathising.

[Monty92]

:rolleyes: You really are a terrible bedwetter, aren't you?

647

Have you pointed out Labour's record of anti-semitism to your sister?

Yes, but she's been convinced (mainly by social media) that they're all as bad as each other on that kind of stuff, and so she's voting for the best of a bad bunch, which happen to be the chaps who seem to care more about the poor and disadvantaged and are promising to chuck money at public services.

[Burney]

Yes, but she's been convinced (mainly by social media) that they're all as bad as each other on that kind of stuff, and so she's voting for the best of a bad bunch, which happen to be the chaps who seem to care more about the poor and disadvantaged and are promising to chuck money at public services.

I hate to say this, m, but your sister sounds...well...a bit thick. :-(

[Pat Vegas]

Right. So he was a terrorist sympathiser, but isn't anymore? So he must have specifically condemned the IRA's actions subsequently, then, right? Oh, hang on... he hasn't, has he? In fact, he's repeatedly failed to do so when asked.

Also, he has repeatedly palled up with Hamas, calling them 'friends' and asking that they be removed from the UK's list of proscribed organisations. Hamas, lest we forget, is an avowedly anti-semitic organisation whose members have repeatedly called for a Jewish genocide.

I'd call that terrorist sympathising.

Are you suggesting that Corbyn may end playing saxaphone at the Isis Ramadam party?

[Monty92]

I hate to say this, m, but your sister sounds...well...a bit thick. :-(

She's not thick, but politically unengaged.

She is, however, as tight as a nun's chuff, so I'm gonna play the tax card on her as a final effort.

[Sir C]

Because he isn't, and it is cheap sloganeering to pretend that he is. Ancient sympathies with the cause of Irish Republicanism is irrelevant to the threats of today. Whereas cosying up to Saudi Arabia and supporting terrorists overseas in obedience to the regime-change policies of the USA is more cause for concern. We need voter pressure against such policies imo.

You realise that the IRA were killing British soldiers and civilians, don't you?

[redgunamo]

She's not thick, but politically unengaged.

She is, however, as tight as a nun's chuff, so I'm gonna play the tax card on her as a final effort.

Will her vote matter? I mean, I could vote Labour and it would make no difference at all; last time, they came second, about 45% behind.

[Pat Vegas]

She's not thick, but politically unengaged.

She is, however, as tight as a nun's chuff, so I'm gonna play the tax card on her as a final effort.

Like myself. I tried to get into it and in my typical selfish fashion the key issues are not wons that seem to really effect me.
I am in a weird position of not being the poorest or poor but far from well off. This affordable housing stuff is not really something I would be eligible for. I don't have an opinion on minimum wage or benefits,

I don't have kids so school issues I don't really get into, NHS stuff doesn't interest me though maybe it could at any point. I just want more money in my pocket.

[redgunamo]

Like myself. I tried to get into it and in my typical selfish fashion the key issues are not wons that seem to really effect me.
I am in a weird position of not being the poorest or poor but far from well off. This affordable housing stuff is not really something I would be eligible for. I don't have an opinion on minimum wage or benefits,

I don't have kids so school issues I don't really get into, NHS stuff doesn't interest me though maybe it could at any point. I just want more money in my pocket.

I blame the parents; they're the cause of all this :-(

[Pokster]

Like myself. I tried to get into it and in my typical selfish fashion the key issues are not wons that seem to really effect me.
I am in a weird position of not being the poorest or poor but far from well off. This affordable housing stuff is not really something I would be eligible for. I don't have an opinion on minimum wage or benefits,

I don't have kids so school issues I don't really get into, NHS stuff doesn't interest me though maybe it could at any point. I just want more money in my pocket.

Well surely people should vote on the things that effect them most :shrug: there will be alot of people who don't earn much, might have kids at school etc, they will vote on the policy that might increase their wages most and who will give them free school meals.... not really a shock imo

[Pat Vegas]

Well surely people should vote on the things that effect them most :shrug: there will be alot of people who don't earn much, might have kids at school etc, they will vote on the policy that might increase their wages most and who will give them free school meals.... not really a shock imo

:nod: and when I received the Labour leaflet through the door none of main points mentioned really effected me currently.

[Burney]

:nod: and when I received the Labour leaflet through the door none of main points mentioned really effected me currently.

Hang on, though, f, because Caitlyn Moran's got some thoughts on how you ought to vote:

https://twitter.com/caitlinmoran/status/872398767487676416

Will these people never learn? :hehe:

[Pat Vegas]

Hang on, though, f, because Caitlyn Moran's got some thoughts on how you ought to vote:

https://twitter.com/caitlinmoran/status/872398767487676416

Will these people never learn? :hehe:

This is what pisses me off the most. It was the same about brexit. These are the same people who demand fairness and democracy. But only if it goes their way it's cleverly designed to suggest if you don't agree with them you are either, sexist, racist, or now just a simple cund. They need to take a look at themselves and despite what they believe they are not the majority.

[Burney]

This is what pisses me off the most. It was the same about brexit. These are the same people who demand fairness and democracy. But only if it goes their way it's cleverly designed to suggest if you don't agree with them you are either, sexist, racist, or now just a simple cund. They need to take a look at themselves and despite what they believe they are not the majority.

They consider themselves to be a new aristocracy, f. They feel nothing except the most profound contempt for anyone who dares to dissent from their wishes. And that contempt is, at root, predicated on a visceral class hatred for those whose views, education, geographical location or income they feel puts them beneath their exalted status.

[Pat Vegas]

They consider themselves to be a new aristocracy, f. They feel nothing except the most profound contempt for anyone who dares to dissent from their wishes. And that contempt is, at root, predicated on a visceral class hatred for those whose views, education, geographical location or income they feel puts them beneath their exalted status.

I was also thinking if Labour are so amazing why did everything go tits up last time they were in power?

Then I see Jorge online going mental about everything. I don't have space in my life to get stressed about all these things. Don't want it!

[Burney]

I was also thinking if Labour are so amazing why did everything go tits up last time they were in power?

Then I see Jorge online going mental about everything. I don't have space in my life to get stressed about all these things. Don't want it!

Just vote Tory tomorrow and stick two fingers up to the lot of them. :shrug:

[Pat Vegas]

Just vote Tory tomorrow and stick two fingers up to the lot of them. :shrug:

and when they win it will be because it was a reaction to the recent terrorist attacks :hehe: let's have another election.

On a side note I saw a Gypsy family riding up Green Lanes on a horse and cart on Saturday :-( The bloke was tanned no shirt on big gut drinking a beer.

Is there a party that can prevent this? I don't care if I am called a racist on this one I don't like them.

[redgunamo]

They consider themselves to be a new aristocracy, f. They feel nothing except the most profound contempt for anyone who dares to dissent from their wishes. And that contempt is, at root, predicated on a visceral class hatred for those whose views, education, geographical location or income they feel puts them beneath their exalted status.

It's more ephemeral than that surely? I mean, they can't all be Cheltenham and Cambridge-educated crude oil brokers, can they?

[Pokster]

I was also thinking if Labour are so amazing why did everything go tits up last time they were in power?

Then I see Jorge online going mental about everything. I don't have space in my life to get stressed about all these things. Don't want it!

When you say tits up I am assuming you are talking about the banking crisis. that would have happened with any party in power as none of them had want to stamp down on the business that gives them so much revenue

[Burney]

It's more ephemeral than that surely? I mean, they can't all be Cheltenham and Cambridge-educated crude oil brokers, can they?

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

New POTD
Arise Sir Burney :bow:

[Burney]

New POTD
Arise Sir Burney :bow:

Thank you, VpV. Now vote Tory, there's a good lad.

[Monty92]

Thank you, VpV. Now vote Tory, there's a good lad.

If it's not a close run thing, why are you so keen to encourage people to vote?

Now I'm scared again. I'm ignoring you until Friday :-(

[Ash]

Right. So he was a terrorist sympathiser, but isn't anymore? So he must have specifically condemned the IRA's actions subsequently, then, right? Oh, hang on... he hasn't, has he? In fact, he's repeatedly failed to do so when asked.

He said: "‘I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA" on TV a couple of weeks ago.

BO'N covers this subject in some detail.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/corbyn-and-the-ira-an-infantile-scandal/19844#.WTfpiTe1tQA

And here is an ex-British soldier who served in Belfast & Londonderry in 1972.
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-e3ba-I-served-in-Northern-Ireland-and-Corbyns-understanding-of-the-Troubles-has-been-proven-right-by-history/#.WTfsJDe1u70



Also, he has repeatedly palled up with Hamas, calling them 'friends' and asking that they be removed from the UK's list of proscribed organisations. Hamas, lest we forget, is an avowedly anti-semitic organisation whose members have repeatedly called for a Jewish genocide.

I'd call that terrorist sympathising.

While he regrets that choice of words to describe Hamas, I don't agree with his position on Israel and will not seek to defend his opinions on that.

[Ash]

You realise that the IRA were killing British soldiers and civilians, don't you?

Yes, I do. I lived in Northern Ireland at the start of the Troubles where I and my family were IRA targets.

[Sir C]

Yes, I do. I lived in Northern Ireland at the start of the Troubles where I and my family were IRA targets.

So you're comfortable with him attending IRA funerals and hanging out with Adams and McGuinness?

I spent some time behind the Iron Curtain in the 1980s. I can tell you that anyone who visited East Germany at that time and returned still espousing socialism is either a sadist or mentally ill. I'll grant you Diane in the Loony camp, but Jeremy simply isn't this principled kind old chap the propaganda would have you believe; he is an enthusiastic proponent of systems and organisations every bit as repulsive as Nazism.

[Burney]

He said: "‘I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA" on TV a couple of weeks ago.

BO'N covers this subject in some detail.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/corbyn-and-the-ira-an-infantile-scandal/19844#.WTfpiTe1tQA

And here is an ex-British soldier who served in Belfast & Londonderry in 1972.
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-e3ba-I-served-in-Northern-Ireland-and-Corbyns-understanding-of-the-Troubles-has-been-proven-right-by-history/#.WTfsJDe1u70




While he regrets that choice of words to describe Hamas, I don't agree with his position on Israel and will not seek to defend his opinions on that.

An absurd defence. He condemns 'all bombing' rather than all terrorist acts. He also condemns the loyalists first - despite the fact that they planted far, far fewer bombs than the IRA. Typical weasel words designed to obfuscate his outright support for the IRA's terror campaign.

[Burney]

If it's not a close run thing, why are you so keen to encourage people to vote?

Now I'm scared again. I'm ignoring you until Friday :-(

You might as well get scared because Arsenal players try in a game against Lincoln City. :shrug:

I will remind you of your brown-trousered ways come Friday. You mark my words.

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

avowedly anti-semitic organisation whose members have repeatedly called for a Jewish genocide.


To be fair to them, they would probably just settle on good shoeing for Monty rather than the whole holocaust thing.

[Norn Iron]

I'm back to being scared :-(



Based on bookies odds

Conservative Majority 79 %
No Overall Majority 17 %
Labour Majority 4 %

[eastgermanautos]

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

Direct me to these aristocrats, sir. I would speak with them. Brahmin rhymes with ramen, and that's why I think we'd get along.

[Ash]

Jeremy simply isn't this principled kind old chap the propaganda would have you believe; he is an enthusiastic proponent of systems and organisations every bit as repulsive as Nazism.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6466/659/1600/godwins_law_breached.jpg

;-)

[Sir C]

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6466/659/1600/godwins_law_breached.jpg

;-)

I'm sorry, but if you can excuse them man giving speeches on a platform decorated with a hammer and sickle, you have to make the same allowance for a chap giving a speech under a swastika.

Would you do that, a?

[Ash]

I'm sorry, but if you can excuse them man giving speeches on a platform decorated with a hammer and sickle, you have to make the same allowance for a chap giving a speech under a swastika.

Would you do that, a?

I just find the constant accusations from both sides/parties at the other as being manifestations of Beelzebub as tiring. Our virtue-signaling SJW chums on Facebook are doubtless still busily fuming at how Mrs May, in their opinion, is just like Hitler. I have no party, no side, no tribe in this. I have no group of people to form a bubble of approval for my opinons. I'm tired of both sides using the shrill emotional blackmail of demonisation. :shrug: Theresa May's re-election will literally be the end of the world, according to a poster I saw this morning.

[Sir C]

I just find the constant accusations from both sides/parties at the other as being manifestations of Beelzebub as tiring. Our virtue-signaling SJW chums on Facebook are doubtless still busily fuming at how Mrs May, in their opinion, is just like Hitler. I have no party, no side, no tribe in this. I have no group of people to form a bubble of approval for my opinons. I'm tired of both sides using the shrill emotional blackmail of demonisation. :shrug: Theresa May's re-election will literally be the end of the world, according to a poster I saw this morning.

I agree very much about the demonisation. BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS HE HAS PHYSICALLY DONE.

[redgunamo]

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

Impudent brats! I wish I had their chutzpah. That's political correctness for you, I suppose :-(

[Burney]

Impudent brats! I wish I had their chutzpah. That's political correctness for you, I suppose :-(

Yes. Still, Mick Hucknall's sound, it turns out.

https://twitter.com/mjhucknall/status/872352745793212416

[redgunamo]

Yes. Still, Mick Hucknall's sound, it turns out.

https://twitter.com/mjhucknall/status/872352745793212416

Decent chap. Never liked his music although I seem to recall some of it was featured in Miami Vice.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

Lives in a predominantly white working class town and voted to leave the EU. Should in theory be a text-book example of someone deserting Labour. And yet....

Thinks Corbyn "seems like a nice bloke" and has been heavily influenced by endless Facebook memes about the Tories making cuts to public services and selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The depicting of Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser has simply not cut through at all.

I'm back to being scared :-(

Burney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't your sister Jewish?

[Darren's Dodgy Denim]

The Tories are going to win, but Theresa May must be the most uninspiring Pm Britain has had for quite some time...

[World's End Stella]

The Tories are going to win, but Theresa May must be the most uninspiring Pm Britain has had for quite some time...

No, you only need to look two PMs back to find that, I think.

[redgunamo]

Oh, no. It's not that sort of class we're talking about anymore. The self-appointed aristocracy of which I speak is controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable. Their hangers-on and lickspittles are usually those of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views and retweeting their tweets. These people have created an echo chamber that is extremely loud, but actually rather shallow, which is why they keep getting surprised when the electorate hands them their arses.

You know, this sounds very much like it was birthed amidst the 80s London fashion, media and club scene. I don't know if you were there but the Face magazine and the New Musical Express, Ronnie Scott's, Heaven-under-the-Arches and the Wag club and illegal "warehouse" parties. WOMAD. Steve Strange and the Westwood siblings, Vivienne & Timothy. Soho and Camden. Richard Branson creating a budget airline to send London's surplus trendies to New York from where they could return even more insufferably trendy.

Basically the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons have finally taken over everything :-(

[Monty92]

Robert Elms wrote the foreword to my London book.




You know, this sounds very much like it was birthed amidst the 80s London fashion, media and club scene. I don't know if you were there but the Face magazine and the New Musical Express, Ronnie Scott's, Heaven-under-the-Arches and the Wag club and illegal "warehouse" parties. WOMAD. Steve Strange and the Westwood siblings, Vivienne & Timothy. Soho and Camden. Richard Branson creating a budget airline to send London's surplus trendies to New York from where they could return even more insufferably trendy.

Basically the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons have finally taken over everything :-(

[redgunamo]

Robert Elms wrote the foreword to my London book.

Oh, yes. I forgot him. He was one of the ringleaders too, was he not.

[Ash]

You know, this sounds very much like it was birthed amidst the 80s London fashion, media and club scene. I don't know if you were there but the Face magazine and the New Musical Express, Ronnie Scott's, Heaven-under-the-Arches and the Wag club and illegal "warehouse" parties. WOMAD. Steve Strange and the Westwood siblings, Vivienne & Timothy. Soho and Camden. Richard Branson creating a budget airline to send London's surplus trendies to New York from where they could return even more insufferably trendy.

Basically the likes of Julie Burchill and Tony Parsons have finally taken over everything :-(

I think you're possibly close there, but Julie Birchill has surely lapsed from that priesthood. Isn't she rather more Daily Mail these days?

I wasn't exactly 'there' as you put it, being more on the fringes of the fringes, but knew people who were closer to the height of the fashionable scene, or at least some more secretly fashionable subset of it, and part of the uniform was the politics. Even then I found it to be rigid and intolerant.

[redgunamo]

I think you're possibly close there, but Julie Birchill has surely lapsed from that priesthood. Isn't she rather more Daily Mail these days?

I wasn't exactly 'there' as you put it, being more on the fringes of the fringes, but knew people who were closer to the height of the fashionable scene, or at least some more secretly fashionable subset of it, and part of the uniform was the politics. Even then I found it to be rigid and intolerant.

Oh, I wouldn't have any idea what became of her exactly, but it fits alright; you say yourself that each side's behaviour and attitude is as bad as the other. "Tiring", you said. Thing is, we don't mind demonisation when it happens to those we don't like anyway, do we. So that has become the normal way to engage with alternative views and opinions. See Also: AKB v WOB; in a way, saying that electing Theresa May is the end of the world is from the same thought process as saying no manager can replace Arsene Wenger. Or if you don't agree with me, you're worse than Hitler. "Rigid and intolerant" makes sense then, doesn't it, because who wants to be (or even be seen to be) tolerant of Hitler.

I was speaking of the "self-appointed aristocracy.. controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable," as B put it. That sounds extremely familiar from those days.

Now just imagine that sort and their "hangers-on and lickspittles .. of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views," transposed from fashion etc. to politics, as well, and other areas of apparently serious adult life, like football. Perhaps you'll even recall a Spitting Image skit mocking the youth television programming of the time, Janet Street-Porter and a' that, which featured celebrities going in and out of fashion every few seconds.

Politically, there's no Margaret Thatcher anymore, of course, but Donald Trump, say, will do just as well as a bogeyman. The antis simply never grew up, they didn't have to. We don't need values anymore, we have Facebook statuses and pinned tweets instead.

I was there, on the fringes of the fringes, as you say. Being from the sticks, I was taken by the urban, edgy, sophistication of the thing and I'd say it was actually the Arsenal that got me away from it all, helped me keep everything real. Certainly the Arsenal and the punk scene. Hard to imagine now, isn't it :-\

[Peter]

So you're comfortable with him attending IRA funerals and hanging out with Adams and McGuinness?

I spent some time behind the Iron Curtain in the 1980s. I can tell you that anyone who visited East Germany at that time and returned still espousing socialism is either a sadist or mentally ill. I'll grant you Diane in the Loony camp, but Jeremy simply isn't this principled kind old chap the propaganda would have you believe; he is an enthusiastic proponent of systems and organisations every bit as repulsive as Nazism.

For ****'s sake, can we stop beating about the bush here. Corbyn is not being targeted for sympathising with terrorists, he is being targeted for sympathising with the wrong side.

See the Conservative and UNIONIST Party for further information.

[redgunamo]

For ****'s sake, can we stop beating about the bush here. Corbyn is not being targeted for sympathising with terrorists, he is being targeted for sympathising with the wrong side.

See the Conservative and UNIONIST Party for further information.

Isn't the whole point of politics, in layman's terms, that both sides are wrong?

[Peter]

Isn't the whole point of politics, in layman's terms, that both sides are wrong?

Not when it comes to terrorism. You have to pick a side.

[redgunamo]

Not when it comes to terrorism. You have to pick a side.

Not in my experience. We happily create terrorists just as cheerily as we catch and kill them. Makes no difference to us, so long as we get paid.

[Ash]

Oh, I wouldn't have any idea what became of her exactly, but it fits alright; you say yourself that each side's behaviour and attitude is as bad as the other. "Tiring", you said. Thing is, we don't mind demonisation when it happens to those we don't like anyway, do we. So that has become the normal way to engage with alternative views and opinions. See Also: AKB v WOB; in a way, saying that electing Theresa May is the end of the world is from the same thought process as saying no manager can replace Arsene Wenger. Or if you don't agree with me, you're worse than Hitler. "Rigid and intolerant" makes sense then, doesn't it, because who wants to be (or even be seen to be) tolerant of Hitler.

I was speaking of the "self-appointed aristocracy.. controlled by a tiny metropolitan-based media/pop cultural Brahmin caste who effectively see themselves as being the arbiters of all that is or isn't acceptable," as B put it. That sounds extremely familiar from those days.

Now just imagine that sort and their "hangers-on and lickspittles .. of similar outlook and location, but lesser status, who seek reflected glory by mindlessly parroting their views," transposed from fashion etc. to politics, as well, and other areas of apparently serious adult life, like football. Perhaps you'll even recall a Spitting Image skit mocking the youth television programming of the time, Janet Street-Porter and a' that, which featured celebrities going in and out of fashion every few seconds.

Politically, there's no Margaret Thatcher anymore, of course, but Donald Trump, say, will do just as well as a bogeyman. The antis simply never grew up, they didn't have to. We don't need values anymore, we have Facebook statuses and pinned tweets instead.

I was there, on the fringes of the fringes, as you say. Being from the sticks, I was taken by the urban, edgy, sophistication of the thing and I'd say it was actually the Arsenal that got me away from it all, helped me keep everything real. Certainly the Arsenal and the punk scene. Hard to imagine now, isn't it :-\

A lot of interesting points there. Will get back to you on them in future.

For now, on demonisation, I admit that I would quite like to see John McCain possessing that specific status in the minds of the western voter. Not much chance of that with the majority of the MSM pushing his agenda. Hence my position. I'm sure The Donald wouldn't mind either. It would make his stated intention (which he shares with that other demon, Jeremy Corbyn) of "getting along with Russia" a lot easier.