What to do?

[IUFG]

with these Jihadist Allans?

Shirley the time has come for the known wons to start having fatal car accidents, falls from high bridges, carbon monoxide poisoning from dodgy boilers, cooking toast in the bath and generally meeting random ends under the gaze of the security forces?

[World's End Stella]

with these Jihadist Allans?

Shirley the time has come for the known wons to start having fatal car accidents, falls from high bridges, carbon monoxide poisoning from dodgy boilers, cooking toast in the bath and generally meeting random ends under the gaze of the security forces?

I thought May's speech was pretty much spot on. Although the only really new bit was the reference to the direct and potentially embarrassing conversations which I presume she means to hold with the so called *leaders* of our Muslim communities.

That one should be fun.

[Pokster]

with these Jihadist Allans?

Shirley the time has come for the known wons to start having fatal car accidents, falls from high bridges, carbon monoxide poisoning from dodgy boilers, cooking toast in the bath and generally meeting random ends under the gaze of the security forces?


Perhaps the PM can start by sacking whoever was the weak Home Secretary since 2010.... oh

[Pat Vegas]

Perhaps the PM can start by sacking whoever was the weak Home Secretary since 2010.... oh

Hello Jorge :wave:

[Pat Vegas]

I thought May's speech was pretty much spot on. Although the only really new bit was the reference to the direct and potentially embarrassing conversations which I presume she means to hold with the so called *leaders* of our Muslim communities.

That one should be fun.

I treat her speech with suspicion and believe it when I see it. easy to say when the election is on thursday.

[Sir C]

Perhaps the PM can start by sacking whoever was the weak Home Secretary since 2010.... oh

:nod: Definitely Theresa May's fault and nothing to do with Islam.

wd p. The chip was successfully installed in your brain.

[Pokster]

Hello Jorge :wave:

Just thought I'd throw that out there and see who bites...... getting fed up with all the politician speak that they all come out with, about time they said it like it is

[Pokster]

:nod: Definitely Theresa May's fault and nothing to do with Islam.

wd p. The chip was successfully installed in your brain.

Of course it's to do with Islam... but if we actually had a decent policy and didn't scoff at the Police federation that they are "crying wolf" when the cuts were made who knows if things would be this bad now

[Rich]

:nod: Definitely Theresa May's fault and nothing to do with Islam.

wd p. The chip was successfully installed in your brain.

Yesterday, I was called a sheep for believing that it was a genuine terror attack. Apparently it was a 'false flag' operation requested by Mrs May in order to strengthen her position on Thursday.

[Sir C]

Of course it's to do with Islam... but if we actually had a decent policy and didn't scoff at the Police federation that they are "crying wolf" when the cuts were made who knows if things would be this bad now

Oh I absolutely agree that we have needed a 'decent policy' for years, now. But every time someone proposes a different policy you squeal like a stuck pig. :shrug:

And the 'cuts' to which you refer were, in the main, replacing coppers doing admin stuff with civilian staff :shrug:

[Sir C]

Yesterday, I was called a sheep for believing that it was a genuine terror attack. Apparently it was a 'false flag' operation requested by Mrs May in order to strengthen her position on Thursday.

Oh yes, she and Donald Trump actually did it. The lads who were shot were innocent passers-by, fitted up by the Old Bill.

yes.

[IUFG]

The lads who were shot were innocent passers-by, fitted up by the Old Bill.

yes.

one of the Allans was wearing an Arsenal shirt :-(

[Pat Vegas]

one of the Allans was wearing an Arsenal shirt :-(

That's what having Wenger as manager will do to you.

[IUFG]

That's what having Wenger as manager will do to you.

Wenger out. Obviously.

[Pokster]

Oh I absolutely agree that we have needed a 'decent policy' for years, now. But every time someone proposes a different policy you squeal like a stuck pig. :shrug:

And the 'cuts' to which you refer were, in the main, replacing coppers doing admin stuff with civilian staff :shrug:

Yes of course I do :rolleyes:

[World's End Stella]

Yesterday, I was called a sheep for believing that it was a genuine terror attack. Apparently it was a 'false flag' operation requested by Mrs May in order to strengthen her position on Thursday.

You and Jorge catch up away from AWIMB often, Rich?

[Burney]

with these Jihadist Allans?

Shirley the time has come for the known wons to start having fatal car accidents, falls from high bridges, carbon monoxide poisoning from dodgy boilers, cooking toast in the bath and generally meeting random ends under the gaze of the security forces?

I believe I've made my feelings on this clear.
We are in a war where suicide bombers are killing our children and savages are cutting women's throats on our capital's streets. And yet not only do the enemy combatants live among us, we know who the vast majority of them are and how they are being radicalised, organised, trained and funded.
So what do we do? Do we round these people up to take them off the streets on the grounds of public safety? Do we close down the various schools, mosques and Islamic centres we know to be radicalising them? Do we block the sources of their funding? Do we act within our prison population to break up the dominance of radical muslim groups who are radicalising their fellow criminals?
No. We do none of these things. Instead we sit on our hands, maunder on about how important it is not to be Islamophobic to 'ordinary, decent muslims' and mouth empty platitudes about our 'values' while allowing what values we have to be undermined by a backwards, alien culture.

Fûck it. If we don't act soon, we deserve to be subjugated by these cûnts.

[Rich]

I believe I've made my feelings on this clear.
We are in a war where suicide bombers are killing our children and savages are cutting women's throats on our capital's streets. And yet not only do the enemy combatants live among us, we know who the vast majority of them are and how they are being radicalised, organised, trained and funded.
So what do we do? Do we round these people up to take them off the streets on the grounds of public safety? Do we close down the various schools, mosques and Islamic centres we know to be radicalising them? Do we block the sources of their funding? Do we act within our prison population to break up the dominance of radical muslim groups who are radicalising their fellow criminals?
No. We do none of these things. Instead we sit on our hands, maunder on about how important it is not to be Islamophobic to 'ordinary, decent muslims' and mouth empty platitudes about our 'values' while allowing what values we have to be undermined by a backwards, alien culture.

Fûck it. If we don't act soon, we deserve to be subjugated by these cûnts.

My fear is that there will be groups of people that begin to take matters into their own hands soon.

[World's End Stella]

I believe I've made my feelings on this clear.
We are in a war where suicide bombers are killing our children and savages are cutting women's throats on our capital's streets. And yet not only do the enemy combatants live among us, we know who the vast majority of them are and how they are being radicalised, organised, trained and funded.
So what do we do? Do we round these people up to take them off the streets on the grounds of public safety? Do we close down the various schools, mosques and Islamic centres we know to be radicalising them? Do we block the sources of their funding? Do we act within our prison population to break up the dominance of radical muslim groups who are radicalising their fellow criminals?
No. We do none of these things. Instead we sit on our hands, maunder on about how important it is not to be Islamophobic to 'ordinary, decent muslims' and mouth empty platitudes about our 'values' while allowing what values we have to be undermined by a backwards, alien culture.

Fûck it. If we don't act soon, we deserve to be subjugated by these cûnts.

Some good points but overall slightly harsh, I think. We are doing some of the things you mention although I would agree that we aren't doing as much as we could.

However the thing we need to do most in my view is something you haven't mentioned there but that I hope May was alluding to in her speech. That being very direct conversations with our Muslim communities. Conversations that include messages like 'the sort of intolerance that we see in Islamist terrorists is not far away from the intolerance we see within your communities too often, and you need to address it. Men and women who think that women should cover up, that women shouldn't leave the house unless accompanied by a male family member, who want Sharia Law implemented in the UK etc etc are part of the problem not part of the solution.'

I'm looking forward to that exchange.

[Sir C]

I believe I've made my feelings on this clear.
We are in a war where suicide bombers are killing our children and savages are cutting women's throats on our capital's streets. And yet not only do the enemy combatants live among us, we know who the vast majority of them are and how they are being radicalised, organised, trained and funded.
So what do we do? Do we round these people up to take them off the streets on the grounds of public safety? Do we close down the various schools, mosques and Islamic centres we know to be radicalising them? Do we block the sources of their funding? Do we act within our prison population to break up the dominance of radical muslim groups who are radicalising their fellow criminals?
No. We do none of these things. Instead we sit on our hands, maunder on about how important it is not to be Islamophobic to 'ordinary, decent muslims' and mouth empty platitudes about our 'values' while allowing what values we have to be undermined by a backwards, alien culture.

Fûck it. If we don't act soon, we deserve to be subjugated by these cûnts.

I fear it's too late already. The ruling liberal elite has decided that our response should be 'love not hate' and that we must not 'look back in anger'. Even the police are advising us to run and hide.

If you can't get angry about children being blown to bits, there's something badly wrong with you, in my view. And how about sending a message that it might be an idea to stand and fight, rather than run away?

Ben Elton, you did this.

[Ash]

Do we block the sources of their funding?

:nod: At least we have one candidate to vote for on Thursday who wishes to hold Saudi Arabia to account. Too bad the other main runner is an ally of the evil Wahabbists though. :-(

[Sir C]

:nod: At least we have one candidate to vote for on Thursday who wishes to hold Saudi Arabia to account. Too bad the other main runner is an ally of the evil Wahabbists though. :-(

:hehe: Sorry, the thought of Jeremy holding someone to account is just hilarious.

[Burney]

Some good points but overall slightly harsh, I think. We are doing some of the things you mention although I would agree that we aren't doing as much as we could.

However the thing we need to do most in my view is something you haven't mentioned there but that I hope May was alluding to in her speech. That being very direct conversations with our Muslim communities. Conversations that include messages like 'the sort of intolerance that we see in Islamist terrorists is not far away from the intolerance we see within your communities too often, and you need to address it. Men and women who think that women should cover up, that women shouldn't leave the house unless accompanied by a male family member, who want Sharia Law implemented in the UK etc etc are part of the problem not part of the solution.'

I'm looking forward to that exchange.

Ah, but those 'conversations' will be condemned as racist or Islamophobic by all the usual suspects and be shut down. It's already happening. The Guardian this morning has run an article condemning any such talk. The article was of course written by a muslim convert who happens to work for a Saudi-funded organisation within one of our leading (and most radicalised) universities.

They're not interested in 'conversations'.

[Monty92]

:nod: At least we have one candidate to vote for on Thursday who wishes to hold Saudi Arabia to account. Too bad the other main runner is an ally of the evil Wahabbists though. :-(

For me, the problem is that it's impossible to counter the ideology behind these attacks without denigrating the entire religion of Islam.

How could an Imam look a young man at risk of radicalisation in the eyes and tell him simultaneously that a) The Koran contains the literal, uncreated word of Allah b) Muhammad flew to the moon on a winged horse c) Everything the Koran says about martyrdom is bull**** and should be ignored

The problem here is religious faith :shrug:

[Burney]

:nod: At least we have one candidate to vote for on Thursday who wishes to hold Saudi Arabia to account. Too bad the other main runner is an ally of the evil Wahabbists though. :-(

The slight problem being that 'holding the Saudis to account' would mean our petrol stations running dry in a week and the lights going out. :shrug:

I despise the Saudis and agree with you about their role in all this, but to ignore the vicious realities of realpolitik is just childish.

[Monty92]

The slight problem being that 'holding the Saudis to account' would mean our petrol stations running dry in a week and the lights going out. :shrug:

I despise the Saudis and agree with you about their role in all this, but to ignore the vicious realities of realpolitik is just childish.

Burney, a few weeks ago you assured me that I'd wake up on June 9th a happy man.

Are you as sure today as you were then?

I'm experiencing a severe bout of squeaky bum time :-(

[World's End Stella]

Ah, but those 'conversations' will be condemned as racist or Islamophobic by all the usual suspects and be shut down. It's already happening. The Guardian this morning has run an article condemning any such talk. The article was of course written by a muslim convert who happens to work for a Saudi-funded organisation within one of our leading (and most radicalised) universities.

They're not interested in 'conversations'.

True, but with each atrocity the sympathy for that sort of political correctness lessens and the focus on issues within our Muslim communities becomes greater. I think there's enough acceptance now that these conversations need to be held.

Chap in the Times the other day wrote a an article that was difficult to argue with, actually. It effectively said that we'll beat the terrorists the way we always do. We'll put up with it until they grow bored of killing us. :-\

[Burney]

For me, the problem is that it's impossible to counter the ideology behind these attacks without denigrating the entire religion of Islam.

How could an Imam look a young man at risk of radicalisation in the eyes and tell him simultaneously that a) The Koran contains the literal, uncreated word of Allah b) Muhammad flew to the moon on a winged horse c) Everything the Koran says about martyrdom is bull**** and should be ignored

The problem here is religious faith :shrug:

Oddly enough, of all people the Archbish of Cant was on Today this morning actually pointing out that to suggest ISIS has 'nothing to do with Islam' or isn't religiously motivated is arrant nonsense and that muslims must acknowledge their religion's role in all this. He also pointed out that this 'nothing to do with Islam' line was usually trotted out by secular liberals who have no understanding of what faith actually means to a religious believer and the role it plays in dictating their actions. The presenter clearly didn't like this much and kept going on about how they were 'deranged'.

I mean, being a lefty CofE type, he fudged it about with a load of waffle about ecumenism, 'outreach' and 'good neighbours', but his point was very much that this IS about Islam.

[Burney]

True, but with each atrocity the sympathy for that sort of political correctness lessens and the focus on issues within our Muslim communities becomes greater. I think there's enough acceptance now that these conversations need to be held.

Chap in the Times the other day wrote a an article that was difficult to argue with, actually. It effectively said that we'll beat the terrorists the way we always do. We'll put up with it until they grow bored of killing us. :-\


They won't get bored. Hatred of non-believers defines them. There is no concession we could make (short of becoming a pure Sharia state) that will ever appease them and there is no negotiation to be had. Why would they get 'bored'?

[World's End Stella]

For me, the problem is that it's impossible to counter the ideology behind these attacks without denigrating the entire religion of Islam.

How could an Imam look a young man at risk of radicalisation in the eyes and tell him simultaneously that a) The Koran contains the literal, uncreated word of Allah b) Muhammad flew to the moon on a winged horse c) Everything the Koran says about martyrdom is bull**** and should be ignored

The problem here is religious faith :shrug:

I think the nature of Islam is often misrepresented in this regard. That's why we have so many Muslims who quite happily coexist with the rest of us within a liberal, secular democracy. I was interested what Islam and Sharia Law actually said about homosexuality so I googled this the other day. I was surprised at the lack of clarity the Koran really provides. It suggests that my view that much of this extremism is culturally driven, as opposed to being required by Islam, is correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

[Monty92]

Oddly enough, of all people the Archbish of Cant was on Today this morning actually pointing out that to suggest ISIS has 'nothing to do with Islam' or isn't religiously motivated is arrant nonsense and that muslims must acknowledge their religion's role in all this. He also pointed out that this 'nothing to do with Islam' line was usually trotted out by secular liberals who have no understanding of what faith actually means to a religious believer and the role it plays in dictating their actions. The presenter clearly didn't like this much and kept going on about how they were 'deranged'.

I mean, being a lefty CofE type, he fudged it about with a load of waffle about ecumenism, 'outreach' and 'good neighbours', but his point was very much that this IS about Islam.

This Allan is a good egg who has got with the programme too.

https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace

[Sir C]

This Allan is a good egg who has got with the programme too.

https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace

Hmm. Does he strike you as a little too good to be real?

[Burney]

Burney, a few weeks ago you assured me that I'd wake up on June 9th a happy man.

Are you as sure today as you were then?

I'm experiencing a severe bout of squeaky bum time :-(

Yes. Labour will get about 180 seats tops.

[Burney]

This Allan is a good egg who has got with the programme too.

https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace


He's Shia. ISIS hate him even more than they hate us.

[Sir C]

Yes. Labour will get about 180 seats tops.

Isn't that terrifying, though? Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell have persuaded some 30% of the electorate to vote for them.

Surely the right to vote must be withheld from these people? Either they are criminally insance or they hate the UK - there can be no other possible excuse for supporting these maniacs.

[Monty92]

I think the nature of Islam is often misrepresented in this regard. That's why we have so many Muslims who quite happily coexist with the rest of us within a liberal, secular democracy. I was interested what Islam and Sharia Law actually said about homosexuality so I googled this the other day. I was surprised at the lack of clarity the Koran really provides. It suggests that my view that much of this extremism is culturally driven, as opposed to being required by Islam, is correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

But it is this openness to interpretation that needs to be unequivocated. But that would require the entire silly book to be disavowed by all Muslims as the madey upyy sh*te that it is.

While Muslims continue to believe that it contains the immutable word of god and that the revelation and supernatural within it is is actually true, then the possibility of literal interpetation will never, ever go away.

[Burney]

I think the nature of Islam is often misrepresented in this regard. That's why we have so many Muslims who quite happily coexist with the rest of us within a liberal, secular democracy. I was interested what Islam and Sharia Law actually said about homosexuality so I googled this the other day. I was surprised at the lack of clarity the Koran really provides. It suggests that my view that much of this extremism is culturally driven, as opposed to being required by Islam, is correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

Yes, but this presupposes that you can separate religion from culture in a society of actual believers. That in turn goes back to the liberal, secular failure to grasp what real religious faith actually means.

[Burney]

Isn't that terrifying, though? Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell have persuaded some 30% of the electorate to vote for them.

Surely the right to vote must be withheld from these people? Either they are criminally insance or they hate the UK - there can be no other possible excuse for supporting these maniacs.


I worry that there's people who are thinking 'Labour won't win, so let's vote for them anyway'. I think there'll be a few voting booth conversions on that one where people actually stop and think what they'd be electing.

[Monty92]

Yes. Labour will get about 180 seats tops.

You don't even countenance the possibility of a hung parliament?

[Burney]

You don't even countenance the possibility of a hung parliament?

Nope. Put your mortgage on a tory majority.

[Ash]

The slight problem being that 'holding the Saudis to account' would mean our petrol stations running dry in a week and the lights going out. :shrug:


Seeing as 87% of oil in the world is produced outside of SA, I think you might be exaggerating a teeny bit here.

[Pokster]

You don't even countenance the possibility of a hung parliament?

betting is 80 seat majority.. latest poll 45% 34%

[Burney]

Seeing as 87% of oil in the world is produced outside of SA, I think you might be exaggerating a teeny bit here.

Yes, but we trade arms for oil with them and can then sell the oil on the open market at a huge profit. If we stop, they'll buy the arms elsewhere anyway and we won't have the oil to sell. How do we benefit from that?

[Burney]

betting is 80 seat majority.. latest poll 45% 34%

:nod: And that's not taking into account the usual pro-Labour bias polls tend to show.

[Pokster]

Yes, but we trade arms for oil with them and can then sell the oil on the open market at a huge profit. If we stop, they'll buy the arms elsewhere anyway and we won't have the oil to sell. How do we benefit from that?

So you are all for being hard with counter terrorism, but we should still sell arms to SA as we get oil from them???

[Burney]

So you are all for being hard with counter terrorism, but we should still sell arms to SA as we get oil from them???

No. I'm saying there is nothing concrete to be gained for the country by ceasing to trade with them. It would simply be an empty gesture. It might make us feel a bit less grubby, but the net result would be a negative.

I don't like it, but that's how it is. :shrug:

[Sir C]

No. I'm saying there is nothing concrete to be gained for the country by ceasing to trade with them. It would simply be an empty gesture. It might make us feel a bit less grubby, but the net result would be a negative.

I don't like it, but that's how it is. :shrug:

Of course there clearly is a sensible way of dealing with Saudi Arabia, but that would be a long term plan involving invading and taking control of the oil, whilst engaging in all out war with the rest of the Muslim world once we've bulldozed Mecca.

What a weekend that would be.

[Burney]

Of course there clearly is a sensible way of dealing with Saudi Arabia, but that would be a long term plan involving invading and taking control of the oil, whilst engaging in all out war with the rest of the Muslim world once we've bulldozed Mecca.

What a weekend that would be.

Oh, I'd be right behind that, but it might be tricky without the cousins taking the lead. Mind you, I reckon you could persuade old Donald to do all sorts of crazy shït.

[Sir C]

Oh, I'd be right behind that, but it might be tricky without the cousins taking the lead. Mind you, I reckon you could persuade old Donald to do all sorts of crazy shït.

Of course Vlad might get the needle. He's touchy like that.

[Burney]

Of course Vlad might get the needle. He's touchy like that.

I dunno. He's hardly a fan of Johnny Islam himself. We could tell him he can have Constantinople. They're mad for that, the Russkis.

[Sir C]

I dunno. He's hardly a fan of Johnny Islam himself. We could tell him he can have Constantinople. They're mad for that, the Russkis.

He'd have the hump if we had all that lovely free oil, though. If everyone stops buying his oil and gas he's skinted.

[Burney]

He'd have the hump if we had all that lovely free oil, though. If everyone stops buying his oil and gas he's skinted.

Yeah. I'm sure we could work something out. A multinational crusade could be be just the thing. And, of course, we've actually got the means to do the job properly these days.